Posted - 2011.06.28 22:41:00 - [452]

 

They haven't heed anything the CSM has brought fourth and now you want us to believe this matter will be resolved thru the CSM? please!

Posted - 2011.06.28 23:01:00 - [454]

 

Originally by: White Tree

---

So here we stand now at a crossroads. We've had documentation on the state of internal dialog with CCP made public, we've had analyses of CCPs 'apparent' financial affairs, we've caused a thunderous rumble that the entire gaming world has paid attention too. We've brought Jita to a halt and our collective outrage has caused CCP to stop on a dime and swing towards us with open ears. The CSM has been summoned for an emergency meeting, something that has only happened once before.

So now it may be time to reflect on what we've done. As a community we've come together to express our collective outrage, something I'm personally impressed and excited about. That seems strange though, to use the word 'excited', doesn't it? It's not that I'm not worried but my 'excitement' comes from this communities ability to be so loud, so mighty and so powerful that for brief moments in time we are nothing short of glorious supernovae in the proverbial galaxy of pinpoints that is gaming as a medium.

So, what do we do now? For me, and as many of the CSMs that can make it we will carry the torch of outrage to CCP. We'll stand at Zeus's foot and in your name we'll roar so loud that Olympus will shake. But this is where your opinions and mine may diverge, friends. I don't see our custodians of content as enemies. I can't because I've seen CCP Soundwave reminisce with CSM Seleene about some of the greatest events in EVEs history because he was there. I've sat and talked to CCP Tallest about how this game is balanced, and when I thought he might be getting bored of me he pulled me back because he wanted to talk about EVE with the sort of passion only someone who plaid the damn game would have. I've watched CCP Hilmar (an enemy as we've made him) tell The Mittani about how people in the gaming industry laughed at him when he talked about EVE, and yet here we all are. We walked through the art department knowing that these people spend many a night actually sleeping at the office and working into the wee hours because this was and still is their passion.

CCP isn't really an enemy to me and hey I'm sorry if you don't like that. CCP isn't infallible, they've boned this one, yeah I'm going to tell you that because its the truth. But they've never been infallible, so its our job to make sure that we steer them in the right direction because without the community Captaining this great ship to her ports of call we're all going to sink.

So what I'm asking you for now, as your CSM, as a member of the community and as an EVE player is a moment of patience. They know they fumbled the ball and they're calling half-time to sort their heads and we're going to be the coach that gives them the pep talk and sets them straight so that we, the denizens of New Eden can continue to enjoy this entirely unique and intricate experience.

---

Just so you know White Tree, this is a time where you MUST play hard-ball with CCP. No more concessions that serve only to undermine the values of EVE ('temporary' golden scorpions - 'vanity-only' MT). I've completely written off the CSM by this point, but there are a ton of people who haven't yet. I hope you don't disappoint them once again.

Posted - 2011.06.28 23:16:00 - [456]

 

apologies, I've not read the other 16 pages here, but with all due respect White Tree, we couldn't have been clearer about our concerns and anger in CCP Pann's thread, which we were told would be answered in full (still waiting). Then we were told everyone was in meetings all day, and at the end of the day, we got the very short side, poorly written, insulting dev blog by CCP Zulu.

Now, CCP Zulu did apologize, but if the company put all of their time and effort into one guy, without anyone else reading it, without anyone else preparing a statement, then it meant they had not actual understanding or interest in talking to us. CCP has time and time again shown an utter inability to communicate with us, and the email from Hilmar really shows a top level management attitude of **** the players, if they want to quit, let them.

If CCP folds, they fold. They've had years to fix basic errors and their response has been now market data doesn't support that fixing bugs sells better than new content, which is such an insult, I don't know why I stayed as long as I did, oh right, it was CCP Zulu promising NO MT for advantage ... oops.

I'd love to keep playing eve, but when we can barely get 500 words out of CCP and NO statements other than CSM is coming, CSM is coming, it shows they are truly incompetent. If THEY give me anything of value in writing, then, I'll resub, that value needs to prove they read anything we've said, as I thought the community was EXTREMELY constructive in many threads including Pann's thread and the eve24 news thread.

Honestly CCP blew it twice with Zulu, I can't believe they put everything into one guy's correspondence, and it is too bad they set CCP Zulu up to fail as they did.

As a CSM rep, I'd ask you to STRONGLY urge CCP to put out a Video of you guys asking them OUR questions, and getting their responses, it can be scripted, but let's increase that bandwidth a little.

Insulted by CCP,
AG

Posted - 2011.06.29 02:12:00 - [458]

 

Edited by: Bloodpetal on 29/06/2011 02:22:25
Parlay?


Pirates of the Caribbean, Parlay?


Starring:

CCP Zulu as Marty The Midget Pirate
CCP Hilmar as Geoffrey Rush
CCP Pann as Elizabeth Swan
CCP Zymurgist as Jack Sparrow

Unidentified CCP Leak as Will Turner
Millia as Lord Cutler Becket
Seleene as Davy Jones

Posted - 2011.06.29 02:20:00 - [460]

 

GL

Posted - 2011.06.29 05:00:00 - [462]

 

Edited by: Carthaage on 29/06/2011 05:02:03
Edited by: Carthaage on 29/06/2011 05:01:08
Whilst I have little faith In the CSM, I Do hope you guys use our Community's in game actions and your voices to really impress upon CCP what we want OUR game to be.

My Issues/opinion:

Incarna: I come from an FPS background and I believe Incarna can do alot for the game. It could be an excellent introduction to a game that's typically considered a 'spreadsheet' game. The problem I see with it is, right now there is little to no functionality to Incarna; beyond a pretty little room and an avatar it's just an inconvinance during docking and undocking. I also believe it should be an optional feature as some computers just can't handle the GPU load.

Bottom line: With some functionality, Incarna could be interesting. As is, it's an unwieldy inconvinance.

Noble Exchange: I am totally against the noble exchange. If it *has* to exist, it should only be for vanity items. End story.

Bottom line: I don't want this feature; if it's a must, I want a promise that nothing sold on it will effect the game.

If these issues arn't resolved to my satisfaction by July 1st, Then I will not renew my accounts. CCP already surpassed their grace period by not following up with Pann's post - I will not stick around if they do it again.

-Carthaage

Posted - 2011.06.29 05:19:00 - [464]

 

Good luck up there

Posted - 2011.06.29 05:48:00 - [466]

 

That's because CSM isn't so much a voice of the players to CCP, but usually the reverse of that. They are CCP's voice to the players

CCP has hundreds of pages of forum posts on the players' perspectives if they wanted them.

Posted - 2011.06.29 06:17:00 - [468]

 

First, the horse is already out of the barn with PLEX. No sense yelling to close it now. Once there is PLEX, real money is buying in-game items and in-game advantage. But let's not pretend that's anything new, as real money has always found ways to buy in-game advantage. Better that real world money go in CCP's pocket, where it in part finances further development, than to 3rd party farmers, with no benefit to the general player base. There is not and never has been a true "sandbox" world and economy utterly separate from the real world and real world economy.

Second, in light of the above, it should be clear that the line in the sand over micro-transactions cannot reasonably be drawn between vanity and war-fighting items such as ships and equipment. Anyone with cash can already buy PLEX, sell that for ISK and buy all the war-fighting items his or her RL wallet can afford. Buying such items with AURUM or even dollars or yen from a NeX vendor changes nothing...well, changes nothing worth such weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth over.

The critical distinction, the flash point lies elsewhere. For what makes PLEX an acceptable, "sandbox" enhancing solution to the real problem of 3rd party ISK farmers is that the in-game value of PLEX floats on the ISK market; that ISK can purchase and set the in-game value of PLEX. The danger is that AURUM, which at this point still has, via PLEX, an indirect ISK market value, will develop into a means to buy items and in-game advantage that will NOT be marketable within EVE's "sandbox" economy, the ISK market. The threat is not that AURUM will buy "gold ammo" but that one day ISK may not, even indirectly, buy AURUM; thereby taking "gold ammo" beyond the reach and valuation of the in-game economy. At that point, not before, EVE will have become something radically other than what it has been.

Note that the worst ideas in the leaked "Fearless" circular are bad ideas because they are bad ideas. They change the dynamics of EVE independent of the question of micro-transactions. For example, selling faction standing changes what faction standing has meant even if sold for ISK or given away, say in a lottery. Paying corporations for achieving sovereignty is a similarly bad idea, bad whether paid in ISK, AURUM, dollars or yen.

In sum, make no mistake about it, CCP must make more money to survive and prosper (and EVE and us with it); and the entire industry is moving toward micro-transactions because those are increasingly the terms on which the global game-playing public is willing to pay for its pleasures. The true task of the CSM meeting with CCP is the same as that under discussion in the much maligned Fearless memo: to figure out how to manage the incorporation of micro-transactions in ways that enhance rather than do damage to the "sandbox," the "virtual world" that is EVE.

Posted - 2011.06.29 07:04:00 - [470]

 

Originally by: White Tree

---

So here we stand now at a crossroads. We've had documentation on the state of internal dialog with CCP made public, we've had analyses of CCPs 'apparent' financial affairs, we've caused a thunderous rumble that the entire gaming world has paid attention too. We've brought Jita to a halt and our collective outrage has caused CCP to stop on a dime and swing towards us with open ears. The CSM has been summoned for an emergency meeting, something that has only happened once before.

So now it may be time to reflect on what we've done. As a community we've come together to express our collective outrage, something I'm personally impressed and excited about. That seems strange though, to use the word 'excited', doesn't it? It's not that I'm not worried but my 'excitement' comes from this communities ability to be so loud, so mighty and so powerful that for brief moments in time we are nothing short of glorious supernovae in the proverbial galaxy of pinpoints that is gaming as a medium.

So, what do we do now? For me, and as many of the CSMs that can make it we will carry the torch of outrage to CCP. We'll stand at Zeus's foot and in your name we'll roar so loud that Olympus will shake. But this is where your opinions and mine may diverge, friends. I don't see our custodians of content as enemies. I can't because I've seen CCP Soundwave reminisce with CSM Seleene about some of the greatest events in EVEs history because he was there. I've sat and talked to CCP Tallest about how this game is balanced, and when I thought he might be getting bored of me he pulled me back because he wanted to talk about EVE with the sort of passion only someone who plaid the damn game would have. I've watched CCP Hilmar (an enemy as we've made him) tell The Mittani about how people in the gaming industry laughed at him when he talked about EVE, and yet here we all are. We walked through the art department knowing that these people spend many a night actually sleeping at the office and working into the wee hours because this was and still is their passion.

CCP isn't really an enemy to me and hey I'm sorry if you don't like that. CCP isn't infallible, they've boned this one, yeah I'm going to tell you that because its the truth. But they've never been infallible, so its our job to make sure that we steer them in the right direction because without the community Captaining this great ship to her ports of call we're all going to sink.

So what I'm asking you for now, as your CSM, as a member of the community and as an EVE player is a moment of patience. They know they fumbled the ball and they're calling half-time to sort their heads and we're going to be the coach that gives them the pep talk and sets them straight so that we, the denizens of New Eden can continue to enjoy this entirely unique and intricate experience.

---

A few problems I have with this:

- do I know you and why should I care?
- my trust in CCP is even more broken then in the CSM
- words are cheap (especially words from marketing scum like most of the bastards here on the forums)
- if CCP wants me as a customer again then they'll need to do more then get their overpaid citybank scum to write a dev blog. I've already signed up 3 accounts on Perpetuum Online so CCP will need to convince me why they once again deserve my money.

Firing Zulu/Mr. Citibank and the rest of the expensive but worthless management would go a long way in restoring trust.

Posted - 2011.06.29 08:31:00 - [472]

 

Originally by: White Tree

---

So, what do we do now? For me, and as many of the CSMs that can make it we will carry the torch of outrage to CCP. We'll stand at Zeus's foot and in your name we'll roar so loud that Olympus will shake. But this is where your opinions and mine may diverge, friends. I don't see our custodians of content as enemies. I can't because I've seen CCP Soundwave reminisce with CSM Seleene about some of the greatest events in EVEs history because he was there. I've sat and talked to CCP Tallest about how this game is balanced, and when I thought he might be getting bored of me he pulled me back because he wanted to talk about EVE with the sort of passion only someone who plaid the damn game would have. I've watched CCP Hilmar (an enemy as we've made him) tell The Mittani about how people in the gaming industry laughed at him when he talked about EVE, and yet here we all are. We walked through the art department knowing that these people spend many a night actually sleeping at the office and working into the wee hours because this was and still is their passion.

So what I'm asking you for now, as your CSM, as a member of the community and as an EVE player is a moment of patience. They know they fumbled the ball and they're calling half-time to sort their heads and we're going to be the coach that gives them the pep talk and sets them straight so that we, the denizens of New Eden can continue to enjoy this entirely unique and intricate experience.

---

Muhahahaha you gonna do what?? LOL
You are either delusional or asleep in the EVE world. Wake up and come back to the REAL WORLD! You can't do anything (if you actually wanted to do anything in the first place).

I suddenly don't believe anything CCP or CSM says.

https://viewer.zoho.com/docs/t5JQf

^^ READ! ^^

Posted - 2011.06.29 10:03:00 - [474]

 

Originally by: Angeliq

---

Muhahahaha you gonna do what?? LOL
You are either delusional or asleep in the EVE world. Wake up and come back to the REAL WORLD! You can't do anything (if you actually wanted to do anything in the first place).

I suddenly don't believe anything CCP or CSM says.

https://viewer.zoho.com/docs/t5JQf

^^ READ! ^^

---

Funny document. It raises an issue:
Would it be possible to buy CCP?

I know it's outragous, but hey so's the game.
What is needed to simply buy the game and remove all shareholders but the players, and make the CSM being the uisness board as well?
10 billion € ?
It's just a number. If you can think it. It can be done, pending resources.

To outline: 350k accounts at 135 € pr year = 47,25 million €
Double subscribtions for 1 year could potentially raise close to 50 million €.
20 of those are 1 billion €, so 200 and we've got 10B € for investing in to ownership.

Turn it upside down even:
Those quitting, or not resubbing, place the money in shares rather then subscribtions. That's 135€ pr account doing it. Too this 135€ number consider the effect on the shares when moving lost revenue directly to shares. It should from what little I know of econimics result in the 135€ being worth even more.

My subscribtions are paid for untill may I believe, taking a year or 2 vacation to do this and regain control of what I'd actually call my game seems reasonable. But I won't change much being one 1 person... (by the way I can easy make my ingame affairs selfsustainable for 24 months)

Posted - 2011.06.29 16:51:00 - [476]

 

Edited by: Mushimushi XOXO on 29/06/2011 16:51:08

Originally by: Angeliq

---

I suddenly don't believe anything CCP or CSM says.

https://viewer.zoho.com/docs/t5JQf

^^ READ! ^^

---

You should have made the huge red emphasized words in there even bigger and blinking, to make it look more legit.

Sorry, even if it´s 100% true I won´t read something that was formatted like if the author was wearing his underpants on his head.

Posted - 2011.07.01 13:44:00 - [478]

 

Well said mr. White Tree :)

Posted - 2011.07.28 16:53:00 - [480]

 

Well I must one of the few that can understand why CCP have done what they did to Zulu and Eve in general. Zulu did a good job, so good infact that they left him to do the work. Nobody else would want to stand up and ultimatly put their own neck on the line. But this happens, seen it happen time and time again as I also work within the gaming industry.

Someone mentioned above 'greed is good' which was prevalent in CCP. Spreading themselves out too thinly maintaining/updating Eve, working on Dust 512 and that other MMO. So I can understand why they introduced over priced items. Some people are stupid and will buy it and thats up to them, I just dont understand what the whole fuss was about.

Eve is a ground braking game even more so with their plans for a multi-platform game using Dust 512.

On one hand I hope it happens and Eve lives as I've been an Eve player since july 2003.

On the other hand I hope CCP die as I work for one of their competitors.