| Author |
Topic |
xynix |
Posted - 2011.06.24 12:22:00 - [ 3241]
CCP will NOT change AUR or the prices. And if your expecting any other response then your wrong.The only thing CCP is contemplating right now as we rage is how best to break it to the playerbase without to much collatoral damage (loosing subs) |
Lotta Costa |
Posted - 2011.06.24 12:22:00 - [ 3242]
CCP, you lost my trust first time when the t20 fiasco happened. After that I've unsubbed and resubbed my accounts a couple of times for various reasons (real-life being the biggest one - the bugs and problems with the game itself, while annoying, were never the main reason), and slowly rebuilt that trust.
But now that trust is gone, most likely forever. The leaked newsletter was the straw that finally broke the camel's back. You managed to fool me more than once. Perhaps that is what you prefer to do to your customers these days, so congratulations may be in order, I guess...
However, know one thing: No matter what you say after this, there simply is no way I can be sure you really mean it. You have lied in the past, several times. How could I be sure you won't continue to do so in the future? And worse, you confess and apologise only after you've been caught. This raises several questions, like: How many lies have you really told us during all these years? And I can't help but wonder if, for example, the t20 was an isolated incident after all, or are similar things still happening behind our backs all the time.
I'm not really angry, only feeling a bit betrayed and sad. I wanted to be able to trust you again, because I once liked you, and you still have a game with so much potential here. It would be a real shame if your own actions and arrogance will finally cause your downfall. |
Andreus Ixiris
Gallente
Mixed Metaphor
|
Posted - 2011.06.24 12:23:00 - [ 3243]
 Originally by: Dierdra Vaal
I feel sad that this has happened - and sad that I need to write this post (not just because it'll probably get buried under 9000 other posts). However, I hope this will be read because I am trying to make a reasonable argument here - not a raging flame post.
As a recurring member of the CSM, whose duty it is to represent the players (something I took very seriously), I went to CCP to discuss the issue of microtransactions. In fact, this topic was discussed several times on CSM summits (both in October and in December). We were assured that microtransactions would be vanity items only.
I was told, to my face, that CCP would not sell anything in their virtual goods store that would not be a vanity item (vanity items being useless fluff, not giving any benefits). Now I read in your newsletter that one of your main game designers is openly argueing to break this promise. I take that as a personal insult and a clear sign of disrespect towards the Eve community as a whole. Shame on you for even considering to break your word!
I'm still subscribed, the but moment CCP will offer anything other than vanity items for PLEX/AURUM/etc is the moment I will cancel my accounts. In going for the 'hobbyist gamer' (casual gamers, even though eve isn't that casual gamer friendly), you seem to have forgotten a large part of your player base. The part that has shaped Eve over the years: the hardcore gamers. We don't come here as a hobby to experience an ultimate sci-fi simulator. We pay a subscription for an all-access pass to this crazy dystopian universe, where what you do, what you become and what you achieve comes down only to your skills, dedication and your effort. And because of that, our actions are meaningful.
By extending the virtual goods sales beyond vanity items you directly attack one of the things that seperates Eve from all the other MMOs out there: that actions are meaningful. If I can just buy faction standing, what meaning is there in doing missions for faction standings? What meaning is there in finally achieving 6.0 standing (for POSs) or 9.0 standing (for COSMOS missions)? And from what I read, that's not even the end of it!
Some people might enjoy spending more money 'on their hobby' like it was golf (an analogy that is inherently flawed, which I'll explain below), but due to the dystopian, merciless nature of Eve you've bred a community that exists for a large part out of hardcore players. People who see Eve as a serious business proving ground - not as a lighthearted diversion. These are the people who have allowed you to get to where you are today. These are the people who stuck by you over the past 8 years - even if they do call themselves "bittervets". To turn your back on those people is at best poor form, and at worst commercial suicide. Because Star Wars Galaxies has shown you can't just trade in one group of customers for another.
Why golf is not the same as eve
Specifically, buying golfclubs isn't the same as buying items in Eve. The equivalent would be if you could pay $100 to get one swing/strike/whatever it's called removed from your record. Instead of making a hole in 5, you could pay $400 and get it listed as a hole in one! Suddenly, your golf stats won't depend on how good you are, but simply on how much money you're willing to spend. Try to suggest that to golfers and see how they like it.
In Eve, just flying a spaceship isn't all there is to the gameplay. The effort to GET that spaceship is part of the game. The fact that it isn't easy to obtain certain things, achieve certain things or do certain things is exactly what makes these things meaningful. Meaningful to me AND to others, who can see what I have achieved. And now some game designer would like to take that away? Bad move CCP.
Veto post? Best post. |
Amber Villaneous |
Posted - 2011.06.24 12:24:00 - [ 3244]
Originally by: Halcyon Ingenium
Originally by: Isis Soryu
So you consider the troll DIAF as a threat? That's essentially what he did. I've done worse for 2 days now and I'm not banned. (yet)
No, I am merely not under the delusion that I am omniscient. If there was a threat then the ban was appropriate, if the document as presented was put up unedited then it is total douchebaggery on CCP's end.
If anything in that petition can reasonably be considered a real life threat then I guess when I say CCP can go **** themselves I am literally saying that I want a company to rip its **** off and shove it up its ass? |
Mirage Excelsior
Minmatar |
Posted - 2011.06.24 12:24:00 - [ 3245]
I pay to play Eve Online. I dont pay for Eve Online to support development of Generic Console FPS, or Generic Twilight Cash-in. I pay for Eve Online, to be a part of Eve Online, to play Eve Online and watch Eve Online grow.
Perhaps CCP are confused? Since aquiring WW, it would seem that they have forgotten they are a development company, not a publisher. Perhaps seeing EA's crack vault made them envious? Maybe you have become/want to become a publisher like EA.
One glaring issue there though, EA has swallowed so many developers, owns so many IPs that people mindlessly rebuy with a higher number each year, that they can literally print their own money, you CCP, can not.
Never bite the hand that feeds you. See us here? All these people Angry/Sad/Happy/Indifferent? We are that hand, and rather foolishly you are trying to draw our left as well as our right to chew the fingers off of both.
Management should ask, what will Dust be without Eve? What will make it unique, or worth buying (already lost half your market with the PS3 exclusive) over the next CoD brainwash? Nothing. We may be your "Golden Goose" as some careless employee put it, but this goose is already losing its feathers.
You dont really have many options here.
1 - Return to roots, make Eve great, focus.
2 - Continue as you are, risk it all.
3 - Seek outside investment, or a publisher for other projects.
The day that you as a company CCP, forget that you need us, more than we need you or Eve, is the day you no longer exist as one, and all your dreams of fancy new projects will vanish along with it.
I know in the grand scheme of things, I am but a single customer, as are others who have stated their intention to unsub, or those who have done already, as and such at the end of the day I, and they, are little more than statistics to the suits that now seem to call the shots. One person though is all it takes to change the world. History is full of such individuals. I make no claim to be one of them, or capable of such action.
However, in this age of the internet, the most powerful tool for communication thus far in human history, word of mouth can do more good, or more harm that at any other point in time, more than any advertising or publicity drive can accomplish.
Much larger companies than CCP have fallen for the mistake of viewing the customer as little more than a cash cow, you cant milk the cow if you arent providing the grass it needs, and I personally would hate to see CCP end this way.
TL;DR - Ramble and +1 for sort your **** out CCP and fast. |
ed jeni
SKULLDOGS
RED.OverLord |
Posted - 2011.06.24 12:24:00 - [ 3246]
i really am in facepalm mode over the last few days,
been playing since day 1 so that make me a vet i guess, bitter ? hell yes !
in the last year CCP's direction has taken a fork that is guided by greed, corporate ineptitude and complete disregard for the paying players.
one Nerf after the other
screwing 0.0 mechanics that people worked long and hard to understand
utter disregard of the thousands of posts asking for fixing of broken and badly implemented features.
despite all this i have both time and effort not to mention subs invested in a game i love and a company i used to have respect for.
but now i really dont think CCP care about players, they dont care about the game they certainly no longer understand the playerbase or how they interact with each other.
vanity items in MT sore i dont care about as i dont have to buy them. the concept and pricepoint however just reinforce my belief that CCP dont care/understand
CQ looks kinda nice but provides no additional features, i understand that CQ is needed to integrate with CCP's future plans with dust/stations but when i switch it on my high end GFX card goes into overdrive when i sit on a sofa !! (crysis on high with all of its obscene eye candy never gets my card above 60% duty cycle, so just bad coding, bad quality control and failure to listen to the problems as reported on test server and bring the patch to the game no matter what, and now that its all a clusterf**k you ask for bug reports, hardware specs and say oops. no one was listening when same problems were reported on test server.
so ok, i can turn CQ off which is great, what do i get then, oh yes a picture of a door, so reduced functionality things are more awkward and i pay same for less.
incarna gives me turret animation which is its only added bonus, this is nice and adds to the gameplay, everything else is a big big mistake,
we can only take so many papercuts before we bleed to death, you can haz my stuff but it will be worthless as 50% of the players throw in the towel and flood the mkt with items, already in 2 days the sp/isk cost in char bazzar has started to slide as hundreds quit game.
working as intended ??
logs showing nothing ??
|
Constantinus Maximus
Paxian Expeditionary Force
|
Posted - 2011.06.24 12:24:00 - [ 3247]
Originally by: Yoruichi kun
This post will probably drown in the all the useless postings with no meaning to help our case but hell I give it a shot.
First I am not against progress, progress is good.
So CQ I like it, it looks great but surely needs some major tweaking.
We all know it's the first step although not everybody is happy with it, it is needed to get a bigger fanbase imo.
Not everybody will/desires/aspires to be a pvp'er some of those people will be station dwellers when station walking get full blown.
Why peeps getting nut about CQ I dunno yes there maybe hardware troubles for some.
If you have older hardware time to upgrade, if not either check it not on your side or petition for it or there is a thread somewhere on the forums for it.
I am not saying here you claims are not legit but keep that in mind.
I myself have no big problems with performance in CQ, what my problem is the non support towards ATI/AMD maybe it time for ccp to make the step toward DX11
Maybe it will improve performance toward other peeps as well.
NEX or AURUM again it's not something bad, but in the way it presented now... well that's a big problem.
MT can be a good thing if it's done right the cloth selling because it will be part of station walking sure good thing but not at these prices.
Selling of ships with a special npc skin outside of the faction ships is a good idea like that golden scorp presented on AT9
But keep it at that and balance the prices.
Selling SP well i hope that just a rumor do not take away player progress, if that idea real.. dot it with a implant a special one that gives a boost for like 30 days at what 50% more speed.
CQ is here to stay but needs some major work.
NEX and AURUM totally out of balance
Back upped tweak work on the gameplay needs to be looked at asap.
Think about DX11 time to have some progress there also to deal with a lot client problems
Get your fanbase trust you again.
I am no ragequiter I wait and see how CCP gonna do now.
Here you go, need a bump for the people who are lurkers not posters. CCP just dismiss forums as small sub-set usually. You're pretty much right, most people don't care too much about NeX or anything. It's the fact CCPGames the company is completely broken. We had a contract with them that they'd maintain the service which provides our "hobby". They tried to expand and broke that contract. |
Evelgrivion
Gunpoint Diplomacy
|
Posted - 2011.06.24 12:25:00 - [ 3248]
Edited by: Evelgrivion on 24/06/2011 12:25:15 Originally by: Dierdra
I feel sad that this has happened - and sad that I need to write this post (not just because it'll probably get buried under 9000 other posts). However, I hope this will be read because I am trying to make a reasonable argument here - not a raging flame post.
As a recurring member of the CSM, whose duty it is to represent the players (something I took very seriously), I went to CCP to discuss the issue of microtransactions. In fact, this topic was discussed several times on CSM summits (both in October and in December). We were assured that microtransactions would be vanity items only.
I was told, to my face, that CCP would not sell anything in their virtual goods store that would not be a vanity item (vanity items being useless fluff, not giving any benefits). Now I read in your newsletter that one of your main game designers is openly argueing to break this promise. I take that as a personal insult and a clear sign of disrespect towards the Eve community as a whole. Shame on you for even considering to break your word!
I'm still subscribed, the but moment CCP will offer anything other than vanity items for PLEX/AURUM/etc is the moment I will cancel my accounts. In going for the 'hobbyist gamer' (casual gamers, even though eve isn't that casual gamer friendly), you seem to have forgotten a large part of your player base. The part that has shaped Eve over the years: the hardcore gamers. We don't come here as a hobby to experience an ultimate sci-fi simulator. We pay a subscription for an all-access pass to this crazy dystopian universe, where what you do, what you become and what you achieve comes down only to your skills, dedication and your effort. And because of that, our actions are meaningful.
By extending the virtual goods sales beyond vanity items you directly attack one of the things that seperates Eve from all the other MMOs out there: that actions are meaningful. If I can just buy faction standing, what meaning is there in doing missions for faction standings? What meaning is there in finally achieving 6.0 standing (for POSs) or 9.0 standing (for COSMOS missions)? And from what I read, that's not even the end of it!
Some people might enjoy spending more money 'on their hobby' like it was golf (an analogy that is inherently flawed, which I'll explain below), but due to the dystopian, merciless nature of Eve you've bred a community that exists for a large part out of hardcore players. People who see Eve as a serious business proving ground - not as a lighthearted diversion. These are the people who have allowed you to get to where you are today. These are the people who stuck by you over the past 8 years - even if they do call themselves "bittervets". To turn your back on those people is at best poor form, and at worst commercial suicide. Because Star Wars Galaxies has shown you can't just trade in one group of customers for another.
Why golf is not the same as eve
Specifically, buying golfclubs isn't the same as buying items in Eve. The equivalent would be if you could pay $100 to get one swing/strike/whatever it's called removed from your record. Instead of making a hole in 5, you could pay $400 and get it listed as a hole in one! Suddenly, your golf stats won't depend on how good you are, but simply on how much money you're willing to spend. Try to suggest that to golfers and see how they like it.
In Eve, just flying a spaceship isn't all there is to the gameplay. The effort to GET that spaceship is part of the game. The fact that it isn't easy to obtain certain things, achieve certain things or do certain things is exactly what makes these things meaningful. Meaningful to me AND to others, who can see what I have achieved. And now some game designer would like to take that away? Bad move CCP.
This illustrates it well:
 Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.
Quoted for getting to the heart of the matter. |
Morgan Polaris |
Posted - 2011.06.24 12:25:00 - [ 3249]
There's a lot of content in here for a crowd being illogical. |
ISquishWorms |
Posted - 2011.06.24 12:25:00 - [ 3250]
Originally by: Isis Soryu
Originally by: DeBingJos
Helicity Boson on Twitter:
Huzzah! I have been permabanned from EVE-online! #tweetfleet
What the hell is this true? |
Milo Caman
Gallente
Anshar Incorporated
|
Posted - 2011.06.24 12:25:00 - [ 3251]
Quote:
Originally by: Jade Constantine
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sure when you have been playing Eve as long as we have you learn to take the rough with the smooth but you do so with the general feeling that CCP developers understand and “get” what makes Eve great – and that’s the problem now. This internal newsletter (if real) shows that one of the leading developers does not “get eve” does not care about eve, and simply sees eve as a cash cow to be milked ferociously to fund other projects. This is about keeping the golden goose of eve subscriptions (on a drip feed if necessary) while chasing and grubbing every little loose cent he can from the player base.
Let me give you a couple of examples of how this can and does (and has already) impacted our enjoyment of this game:
1. The Captains Quarters – it’s not gameplay its a display cabinet for vanity items. And the price of this display cabinet for you and I is that multi-client performance in stations is now terrible – if you have a bad graphic card it’s a jerk fest – if you have a decent graphics card it’s heat-fest. I can run 3-4 clients with CQ’s turned on – I can run it smoothly – but do I want to? Hell no because my Gtx 580 sounds like its melting my motherboard now! So I need to turn off the CQ’s on multiple accounts and as a result have more limited functionality on those accounts and an ugly wallpaper. No more station environment, no more clicking on my ship to open cargo hold, no more dragging ship to the hanger to board it. The delivery of the CQ vanity item display case has impacted my gameplay.
CCP could have made it optional and given us the option of keeping the old hanger view and added a “disembark ship” option to the UI but “oh no” to do that would have meant we weren’t being forced to look the vanity display case that marketing insisted must be front and centre if we’re to even think about buying these ridiculously overpriced items from the Noble store.
2. If you read the newsletter you’ll see reference to saved fitting slots – and I don’t know about you Verone but in JF we’ve run out of saved corp ship fittings. We want CCP to up the limit but is that really going to happen while the “biz-devs” talk honeyed words about how to squeeze extra income from players for such “minor upgrades.”? How long till we pay aurum for extra corp standing slots? For wardec options? For a usable corp management screen?
3. And who develops these vanity items? Yes thats right its Eve artists and developers whose salary we pay with our subscriptions. Given the choice wouldn’t you rather have engine trails and flashy cyno effect for all players rather than a bunch of overpriced tat in the Aur store for a fleeced few?
Because that is precisely the compromise being made here -> CCP using our subs money to pay for vanity item production they want to sell back to us for greedy prices and it is something you SHOULD get mad about.
So here’s the thing.
The time to fight for the game we love is not in six months time when these concepts have bedded down and CCP is feeling bold enough to start selling Noble Faction ammo and +9 implants. The time to fight is now. Because this newsletter embodies everything that many of us feared but didn’t want to believe CCP were becoming capable of. It is a massive betrayal of the compact we shared as players and developers of this game and indicates that CCP is preparing to leap down a very dark and deep path of self-immolation in the months to come.
I don’t want to see Eve Online die Verone. That sounds dramatic I know, but gameworlds die when the dreams and visions are extinguished and that can happen through a succession of bad ideas foisted on a community by people who really don’t have much of a clue in business.
I'm quoting Jade and agreeing. Things must be bad.  |
Aelius
Caldari
Mnemonic Enterprises
Dark Matter Coalition |
Posted - 2011.06.24 12:25:00 - [ 3252]
Originally by: CCP Pann
...I know that, with very few exceptions, most of you don’t know me from Adam. I haven’t earned your trust or respect;...
There's still some of us that know you from launch. To the others that don't all i can say is that Pann is an "old timer" EVE Team member and all her actions in the past have proven more than once that she is very competent. Her coming here just means that all hell has gone lose, and she is trying to do some damage control. Help her and she will help EVE in this dire moment. I know for a fact that she might have an huge influence in design decisions because she knows EVE from the very beginning. BTW Pann nice to see you again  |
Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE |
Posted - 2011.06.24 12:25:00 - [ 3253]
Originally by: Helen
Well I can honestly say there has never been a patch so bad for actual game content as Incarna.
I've played since beta and wish to have the option to look at my dated old style ship hangar instead of this CQ crap I have no interest in.
I multibox 4+ accounts nearly every time I play but if CQ is made mandatory I can see it killing my pc very fast.
At the end of the day I didn't play EvE so I can play spacedolls in station, I started playing because it held a promise of being a MMO version of Elite.
tl;dr The only time I want to see a human body is when its floating as a cold corpse in space.
+1 |
Skylar Gray |
Posted - 2011.06.24 12:25:00 - [ 3254]
Originally by: Isis Soryu
Edited by: Isis Soryu on 24/06/2011 12:21:13
Originally by: Dierdra Vaal
Edited by: Dierdra Vaal on 24/06/2011 12:19:08
<snip>
As a recurring member of the CSM, whose duty it is to represent the players (something I took very seriously), I went to CCP to discuss the issue of microtransactions. In fact, this topic was discussed several times on CSM summits (both in October and in December). We were assured that microtransactions would be vanity items only.
I was told, to my face, that CCP would not sell anything in their virtual goods store that would not be a vanity item (vanity items being useless fluff, not giving any benefits). Now I read in your newsletter that one of your main game designers is openly argueing to break this promise. I take that as a personal insult and a clear sign of disrespect towards the Eve community as a whole. Shame on you for even considering to break your word!
I'm still subscribed, the but moment CCP will offer anything other than vanity items for PLEX/AURUM/etc is the moment I will cancel my accounts. In going for the 'hobbyist gamer' (casual gamers, even though eve isn't that casual gamer friendly), you seem to have forgotten a large part of your player base. The part that has shaped Eve over the years: the hardcore gamers. We don't come here as a hobby to experience an ultimate sci-fi simulator. We pay a subscription for an all-access pass to this crazy dystopian universe, where what you do, what you become and what you achieve comes down only to your skills and your effort. And because of that, our actions are meaningful.
By extending the virtual goods sales beyond vanity items you directly attack one of the things that seperates Eve from all the other MMOs out there: that actions are meaningful. If I can just buy faction standing, what meaning is there in doing missions for faction standings? What meaning is there in finally achieving 6.0 standing (for POSs) or 9.0 standing (for COSMOS missions)? And from what I read, that's not even the end of it!
Some people might enjoy spending more money 'on their hobby' like it was golf (an analogy that is inherently flawed, which I'll explain below), but due to the dystopian, merciless nature of Eve you've bred a community that exists for a large part out of hardcore players. People who see Eve as a serious business proving ground - not as a lighthearted diversion. These are the people who have allowed you to get to where you are today. These are the people who stuck by you over the past 8 years - even if they do call themselves "bittervets". To turn your back on those people is at best poor form, and at worst commercial suicide. Because Star Wars Galaxies has shown you can't just trade in one group of customers for another.
Why golf is not the same as eve
Specifically, buying golfclubs isn't the same as buying items in Eve. The equivalent would be if you could pay $100 to get one swing/strike/whatever it's called removed from your record. Instead of making a hole in 5, you could pay $400 and get it listed as a hole in one! Suddenly, your golf stats won't depend on how good you are, but simply on how much money you're willing to spend. Try to suggest that to golfers and see how they like it.
In Eve, just flying a spaceship isn't all there is to the gameplay. The effort to GET that spaceship is part of the game. The fact that it isn't easy to obtain certain things, achieve certain things or do certain things is exactly what makes these things meaningful. Meaningful to me AND to others, who can see what I have achieved. And now some game designer would like to take that away? Bad move CCP.
Best Post
|
Istyn
Tactical Knightmare
|
Posted - 2011.06.24 12:26:00 - [ 3255]
Originally by: Adunh Slavy
Originally by: Istyn
... death threats ...
Are people really doing that? That's a bit far to go. We can hate his "public face", but the person behind that is off limits IMO.
Found the post: Originally by: CCP Manifest
I've witnessed some extreme amounts of exhibited patience for the nastiest of the nasties who have threatened lives, engaged in character assassination and such--and that's because we as developers realize there are a lot of hurt/angry people out there.
Now, obviously death threats are moronic and just damaging the validity of our complaints, but Helicity didn't make any death threat. I also believe that if, as senior game designer, CCP Soundwave was too frightened to voice his ideas publically as he knew they'd have this kind of reaction, he should have been able to do some kind of voodoo magic to deduce that his ideas were terrible. Going around behind the playerbase's backs is simply insulting and suggests CCP think an awful lot less of their customers than we DID think of them. |
Jaak 242 |
Posted - 2011.06.24 12:26:00 - [ 3256]
Originally by: Tali Ambraelle
You people are STILL complaining? Good Get, get a life you peasants.
Hmmm. /me Adds new name to KOS list. |
Cedric deBouilard
Gallente
PonyWaffe
Test Alliance Please Ignore |
Posted - 2011.06.24 12:26:00 - [ 3257]
Originally by: Dierdra Vaal
I feel sad that this has happened - and sad that I need to write this post (not just because it'll probably get buried under 9000 other posts). However, I hope this will be read because I am trying to make a reasonable argument here - not a raging flame post.
As a recurring member of the CSM, whose duty it is to represent the players (something I took very seriously), I went to CCP to discuss the issue of microtransactions. In fact, this topic was discussed several times on CSM summits (both in October and in December). We were assured that microtransactions would be vanity items only.
I was told, to my face, that CCP would not sell anything in their virtual goods store that would not be a vanity item (vanity items being useless fluff, not giving any benefits). Now I read in your newsletter that one of your main game designers is openly argueing to break this promise. I take that as a personal insult and a clear sign of disrespect towards the Eve community as a whole. Shame on you for even considering to break your word!
I'm still subscribed, the but moment CCP will offer anything other than vanity items for PLEX/AURUM/etc is the moment I will cancel my accounts. In going for the 'hobbyist gamer' (casual gamers, even though eve isn't that casual gamer friendly), you seem to have forgotten a large part of your player base. The part that has shaped Eve over the years: the hardcore gamers. We don't come here as a hobby to experience an ultimate sci-fi simulator. We pay a subscription for an all-access pass to this crazy dystopian universe, where what you do, what you become and what you achieve comes down only to your skills, dedication and your effort. And because of that, our actions are meaningful.
By extending the virtual goods sales beyond vanity items you directly attack one of the things that seperates Eve from all the other MMOs out there: that actions are meaningful. If I can just buy faction standing, what meaning is there in doing missions for faction standings? What meaning is there in finally achieving 6.0 standing (for POSs) or 9.0 standing (for COSMOS missions)? And from what I read, that's not even the end of it!
Some people might enjoy spending more money 'on their hobby' like it was golf (an analogy that is inherently flawed, which I'll explain below), but due to the dystopian, merciless nature of Eve you've bred a community that exists for a large part out of hardcore players. People who see Eve as a serious business proving ground - not as a lighthearted diversion. These are the people who have allowed you to get to where you are today. These are the people who stuck by you over the past 8 years - even if they do call themselves "bittervets". To turn your back on those people is at best poor form, and at worst commercial suicide. Because Star Wars Galaxies has shown you can't just trade in one group of customers for another.
Why golf is not the same as eve
Specifically, buying golfclubs isn't the same as buying items in Eve. The equivalent would be if you could pay $100 to get one swing/strike/whatever it's called removed from your record. Instead of making a hole in 5, you could pay $400 and get it listed as a hole in one! Suddenly, your golf stats won't depend on how good you are, but simply on how much money you're willing to spend. Try to suggest that to golfers and see how they like it.
In Eve, just flying a spaceship isn't all there is to the gameplay. The effort to GET that spaceship is part of the game. The fact that it isn't easy to obtain certain things, achieve certain things or do certain things is exactly what makes these things meaningful. Meaningful to me AND to others, who can see what I have achieved. And now some game designer would like to take that away? Bad move CCP.
This illustrates it well:
Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.
+ 1 to this |
San Severina
Minmatar |
Posted - 2011.06.24 12:26:00 - [ 3258]
Originally by: Zly Dziad
Fail mmo company is fail :)
Just ban me you scumbags - fvck you guys - go to hell & die in a fire!!!! |
Halcyon Ingenium
Caldari
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse
Sanctuary Pact |
Posted - 2011.06.24 12:26:00 - [ 3259]
|
w0rmy
Destructive Influence |
Posted - 2011.06.24 12:26:00 - [ 3260]
If all this ****s about money...
Then have the balls to tell us.
Its all this flip flopping, 'we were doing it cause we love you' type crap talk that ****es me off most.
Your bull**** and lies however, are just plain insulting.
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Kai'il Bhaal |
Posted - 2011.06.24 12:26:00 - [ 3261]
Good riddance to all who unsub. Stuff, contract it. |
COMEATMEBRO IMHERE |
Posted - 2011.06.24 12:27:00 - [ 3262]
HOW DID I GET HERE AND WHY ARE MY PANTS DOWN? |
Zey Nadar
Gallente
Unknown Soldiers
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Posted - 2011.06.24 12:27:00 - [ 3263]
I am not going to pretend I read through the entire thread, so Im just going to direct my words directly to CCP Pann.
Heres what I think are some reasons for people being angry.
1. The incarna released content is only 'eye-candy', some people want something more tangible from patches. I dont really mind personally. I like captains quarters.
2. The Noble exchange prices are ridiculous, I recommend you take a look at something like Atari store in champions online for vanity items and do some comparison math. Theres also very little in there, the clothes can only be looked at while at the station interior, which is like 0.00001% of the game. The NEX items are utter waste for majority of eve players.
3. People who converted plex to aurum without actually looking at the prices are very angry.
4. The station interior is a resource hog, and has overheated peoples graphic cards. I havent had trouble myself, even if my FPS halves while inside station. I can live with that.
5. This update came shortly after several nerfs that affected innumerable people, namely anomaly nerfs and jump bridge nerfs. You are really trying our patience here. I quit one of my accounts as a result of anomaly nerfs. I know it has very little effect but it is my prerogative.
I hope you can see what went wrong, and that the NEX prices arent the result of your owners putting pressure on you. I hope it was simply a case of someone being stupid. I also hope that theres more station interior stuff incoming soon.
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Rrama Ratamnim |
Posted - 2011.06.24 12:27:00 - [ 3264]
Originally by: leth ghost
Originally by: xeitgeist
The person who posted CCP's leaked documents has been permanently banned on all accounts. Let this be an lesson to all of you.
says alot dont it
Technically he wasnt, considering he couldnt leak CCP DOCUMENTS, someone FROM CCP leaked the document and he published it!!!!!!He was banned because of something he said that was said in rage as most of what this 100+ thread is *****ing about UNBAN HELICITY AND START WITH THE DEV BLOGS, ya i said BLOGS as this is gonna take more than 1 to sort out |
Nikita Alterana
Kumiho's Smile
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Posted - 2011.06.24 12:27:00 - [ 3265]
Seeing as I'm still enjoying the game, I'm going to be honest and say I'm not going anywhere, since there are no games out there that have what eve has.
That said, I'm going to stop recommending it to others, and stop defending CCP as a company. CCP has turned me bitter and jaded and I fully expect the worst, which is that after this, the game is going to go downhill, towards an eventual shutdown and abandonment a year or two from now, and that makes me really really sad.
I love eve, I love the game, and the community. I have eve tattoos. I want to keep playing this game for years and years, I want to introduce my children to it and raise them as eve players. Now...I can't see that happening. Its really sad.
RIP
Eve Online
2003-2013
*She sighs and salutes the tombstone sadly.*
This is really depressing. I think I'm gonna cry. |
Haskuldr
Minmatar
Malevolent Intentions |
Posted - 2011.06.24 12:27:00 - [ 3266]
CCP you have the crisis dealing skills of a mute cat without legs. |
Demure Guise |
Posted - 2011.06.24 12:27:00 - [ 3267]
Originally by: IsVaffel
Does this mean I can buy a lvl5 skill for $ anytime soon?
Probably. Don't you know CCP's new mantra is "Greed is Good"? |
Constantinus Maximus
Paxian Expeditionary Force
|
Posted - 2011.06.24 12:27:00 - [ 3268]
Originally by: San Severina
Originally by: Zly Dziad
Fail mmo company is fail :)
Just ban me you scumbags - fvck you guys - go to hell & die in a fire!!!!
BAN HIM! |
Isis Soryu
Caldari
Universitas Interimo Research |
Posted - 2011.06.24 12:27:00 - [ 3269]
Edited by: Isis Soryu on 24/06/2011 12:28:08 Originally by: Dierdra Vaal
I feel sad that this has happened - and sad that I need to write this post (not just because it'll probably get buried under 9000 other posts). However, I hope this will be read because I am trying to make a reasonable argument here - not a raging flame post.
As a recurring member of the CSM, whose duty it is to represent the players (something I took very seriously), I went to CCP to discuss the issue of microtransactions. In fact, this topic was discussed several times on CSM summits (both in October and in December). We were assured that microtransactions would be vanity items only.
I was told, to my face, that CCP would not sell anything in their virtual goods store that would not be a vanity item (vanity items being useless fluff, not giving any benefits). Now I read in your newsletter that one of your main game designers is openly argueing to break this promise. I take that as a personal insult and a clear sign of disrespect towards the Eve community as a whole. Shame on you for even considering to break your word!
I'm still subscribed, the but moment CCP will offer anything other than vanity items for PLEX/AURUM/etc is the moment I will cancel my accounts. In going for the 'hobbyist gamer' (casual gamers, even though eve isn't that casual gamer friendly), you seem to have forgotten a large part of your player base. The part that has shaped Eve over the years: the hardcore gamers. We don't come here as a hobby to experience an ultimate sci-fi simulator. We pay a subscription for an all-access pass to this crazy dystopian universe, where what you do, what you become and what you achieve comes down only to your skills, dedication and your effort. And because of that, our actions are meaningful.
By extending the virtual goods sales beyond vanity items you directly attack one of the things that seperates Eve from all the other MMOs out there: that actions are meaningful. If I can just buy faction standing, what meaning is there in doing missions for faction standings? What meaning is there in finally achieving 6.0 standing (for POSs) or 9.0 standing (for COSMOS missions)? And from what I read, that's not even the end of it!
Some people might enjoy spending more money 'on their hobby' like it was golf (an analogy that is inherently flawed, which I'll explain below), but due to the dystopian, merciless nature of Eve you've bred a community that exists for a large part out of hardcore players. People who see Eve as a serious business proving ground - not as a lighthearted diversion. These are the people who have allowed you to get to where you are today. These are the people who stuck by you over the past 8 years - even if they do call themselves "bittervets". To turn your back on those people is at best poor form, and at worst commercial suicide. Because Star Wars Galaxies has shown you can't just trade in one group of customers for another.
Why golf is not the same as eve
Specifically, buying golfclubs isn't the same as buying items in Eve. The equivalent would be if you could pay $100 to get one swing/strike/whatever it's called removed from your record. Instead of making a hole in 5, you could pay $400 and get it listed as a hole in one! Suddenly, your golf stats won't depend on how good you are, but simply on how much money you're willing to spend. Try to suggest that to golfers and see how they like it.
In Eve, just flying a spaceship isn't all there is to the gameplay. The effort to GET that spaceship is part of the game. The fact that it isn't easy to obtain certain things, achieve certain things or do certain things is exactly what makes these things meaningful. Meaningful to me AND to others, who can see what I have achieved. And now some game designer would like to take that away? Bad move CCP.
This illustrates it well:
Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.
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Az Secc |
Posted - 2011.06.24 12:28:00 - [ 3270]
Helicity, one of your most passionate players, was banned for the equivalent of a "diaf" comment?
Way to blow things out of proportion. |
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