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Trebor Daehdoow
Gallente
Sane Industries Inc.
Posted - 2011.06.22 02:14:00 - [181]
 

Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Lord Douchebag
WHERE have my preference files gone? I'd like to import some overview settings, but can't find them.
Known bug. Was reported on Sisi a month ago.

The EVE client now creates its preferences directory in ~/Library/Application Support/EVE Online rather than in ~/Library/Preferences/[Whatever info.plist tells it to], and it completely ignores the setting in its info.plist that tells it otherwise.

Which means that anyone running multiple clients is screwed. Given that this problem has been known for weeks, I find it mind-boggling that it was not fixed.

I have been bringing up the issue of Quality Assurance problems and the kafkaesque nature of the bug reporting system at every summit. Maybe someday someone will buy a vowel (available for AUR in the NeX?) and recognize how much this kind of thing is costing CCP.

Nouney Constantine
Posted - 2011.06.22 02:16:00 - [182]
 

i redownload it once,didnt work,now i m doing it again,ends in 10min
lets hope it will do

Rakhoi Bathana
Posted - 2011.06.22 02:30:00 - [183]
 

It is a Mac NOT a MacIntosh.

Extremely Unprofessional Release. Makes me doubt the entire Q&A AND development groups. Have your heard of Agile development? Have you heard of Test Driven Design?

Is none of the core development group working under Mac OS X native? For shame.

I have seen more professionalism from a 12 year old programmer with six months experience.

Having worked in software development at OEMs and on COTS for YEARS, this is seriously amateur hour. Christ, fire whoever is in charge of development and let this slip through. Fire some of the development group. Then they will realize there are consequences for shoddy unprofessional work!

What? Don't care about the Mac base? Drop the client and quit pretending.

My guess is senior management PUSHED the release threw due to the announced date and development was forced to cut corners. Fire the MANAGEMENT IDIOTS who made that decision.

I expect no reply and no satisfaction. How very, very sad and pathetic. Rolling Eyes

Nouney Constantine
Posted - 2011.06.22 02:31:00 - [184]
 

Installing new client
I m surpirised by the 9gig

it says on patch note full incarna mac client will weight 4.9gig....

Lederstrumpf
Posted - 2011.06.22 02:32:00 - [185]
 

Edited by: Lederstrumpf on 01/07/2011 23:31:33
deleted due to announced enforced forum "update"http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1542688&page=1#1

ZooLuFruitDuck
Posted - 2011.06.22 02:44:00 - [186]
 

Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Lord Douchebag
WHERE have my preference files gone? I'd like to import some overview settings, but can't find them.
Known bug. Was reported on Sisi a month ago.

The EVE client now creates its preferences directory in ~/Library/Application Support/EVE Online rather than in ~/Library/Preferences/[Whatever info.plist tells it to], and it completely ignores the setting in its info.plist that tells it otherwise.


I know this may be a daft question, but... can you move the file from Library/Preferences to Application Support/EVE Online and rename it???

da go
Posted - 2011.06.22 02:46:00 - [187]
 

Originally by: Matavhe Rems
Further, I saw a note early in this thread that the test version was putting the prefs file in the wrong directory and it WAS KNOWN AT THE TIME. Eve is using a prefs file in ~/Library/Application Support/ instead of ~/Library/Preferences and is completely ignoring the info.plist name.
Originally by: Tippia
Known bug. Was reported on Sisi a month ago.

The EVE client now creates its preferences directory in ~/Library/Application Support/EVE Online rather than in ~/Library/Preferences/[Whatever info.plist tells it to], and it completely ignores the setting in its info.plist that tells it otherwise.
This is not a bug. This is an intended change in cider that tries to align it with Apple rules (it's most probably part of a set of changes that they did in this regard as Lion, coming out next month, is going to be somewhat stricter in what is allowed and what is frowned upon).

The problem is that the EvE client itself should manage the cache and other files it creates expecting multiple running instances, but it does not. It's a problem of interaction between EVE and cider, not a problem of cider or a problem of eve. Not the first time this kind of problems surface. In the past it took them a couple of months after deployment to fix up.

Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow
I have been bringing up the issue of Quality Assurance problems and the kafkaesque nature of the bug reporting system at every summit. Maybe someday someone will buy a vowel (available for AUR in the NeX?) and recognize how much this kind of thing is costing CCP.
On top of that I've been harassing CCP Manifest and CCP Affinity on twitter a few hours ago pointing them to this very problem. CCP Manifest replied that we should keep spamming this forum (note: he's not the right person for this as he does social media and knows nothing of Macs). CCP Affinity did not reply, I'm hoping he'll poke someone (she's a QA). I also gently poked CCP Mandrake here.

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2011.06.22 02:48:00 - [188]
 

Edited by: Tippia on 22/06/2011 02:53:08
Originally by: Lederstrumpf
Originally by: Rakhoi Bathana
Fire some of the development group
The fish always stinks from the head downwards.


Here's my "brute force" approach to get the ****er client running at least:

http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1533318
To put this in perspective, I am probably one of the most trouble-free OSX client users ever.

I never get broken files. I always manage to patch the client. None of the more complicated problems in this thread affect me (aside from the ones listed on page 1). I've always had good performance before this patch, in spite of what others may report, and I get good performance in this patch. I even get decent performance in CQ when I have it turned on. I think my Quafe t-shirt looks very snazzy. I never seem to get bitten by the nasty bugs some people report. Hell, I can play the game semi-acceptably on my MB Air. I am, in short, the best-case scenario…

…and I managed to find and report every last one of the core issues with this patch during the Sisi testing. The best-case scenario made these bugs brutally and blatantly obvious. There is quite literally no excuse for CCP not having known and not having addressed them before launch. Yes, sometimes things don't show up and cannot be reproduced during internal testing, but again: I am apparently a best-case scenario… the only way for these things not to show up during internal testing is if no internal testing took place.

So I don't think there is a development group to fire. Neutral
Originally by: da go
The problem is that the EvE client itself should manage the cache and other files it creates expecting multiple running instances, but it does not. It's a problem of interaction between EVE and cider, not a problem of cider or a problem of eve. Not the first time this kind of problems surface. In the past it took them a couple of months after deployment to fix up.
Ok, fair enough, but I'm still questioning why it makes sense. Will Lion do away with the Preference directory, and if not, why shouldn't this stuff go in there? And why should the client ignore its own plist? And why should it not be able to use multiple preference sets for multiple instances? And… so on…

da go
Posted - 2011.06.22 02:52:00 - [189]
 

Originally by: ZooLuFruitDuck
I know this may be a daft question, but... can you move the file from Library/Preferences to Application Support/EVE Online and rename it???
The client should move your setting from the old preferences to the new one when it starts.

This only works of the old settings are not somehow corrupted and the new settings are non-existent.

It seems that the old settings are untouched. Therefore if you did some testing on SiSi or on DuCi earlier, you can try deleting (or renaming) the directory "~/Library/Application Support/EVE Online" and then run the client: it should re-create your settings according to the latest TQ.

Matavhe Rems
Posted - 2011.06.22 03:01:00 - [190]
 

Edited by: Matavhe Rems on 22/06/2011 03:02:24
Originally by: da go
Originally by: ZooLuFruitDuck

It seems that the old settings are untouched. Therefore if you did some testing on SiSi or on DuCi earlier, you can try deleting (or renaming) the directory "~/Library/Application Support/EVE Online" and then run the client: it should re-create your settings according to the latest TQ.



Tried that earlier. Nope. It ignores your previous prefs files and starts from scratch. I was able to COPY the 4GB older prefs file over, rename it to the default, and it works. But eve ignores the prefs file name you enter in the info.plist and ONLY uses the default file name. If it doesn't find one, it MAKES one, which means NO settings.

Like I said, they've finally managed to find something that will make me quit Eve. I'm not quitting Eve, I'm refusing to donate real-life money to a company that doesn't give a **** about me.

Toshiko Kin
Amarr
Ministry of War
Posted - 2011.06.22 03:01:00 - [191]
 

Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Lederstrumpf
Originally by: Rakhoi Bathana
Fire some of the development group
The fish always stinks from the head downwards.


Here's my "brute force" approach to get the ****er client running at least:

http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1533318
To put this in perspective, I am probably one of the most trouble-free OSX client users ever.

I never get broken files. I always manage to patch the client. None of the more complicated problems in this thread affect me (aside from the ones listed on page 1). I've always had good performance before this patch, in spite of what others may report, and I get good performance in this patch. I even get decent performance in CQ when I have it turned on. I think my Quafe t-shirt looks very snazzy. I never seem to get bitten by the nasty bugs some people report. Hell, I can play the game semi-acceptably on my MB Air. I am, in short, the best-case scenario…

…and I managed to find and report every last one of the core issues with this patch during the Sisi testing. The best-case scenario made these bugs brutally and blatantly obvious. There is quite literally no excuse for CCP not having known and not having addressed them before launch. Yes, sometimes things don't show up and cannot be reproduced during internal testing, but again: I am apparently a best-case scenario… the only way for these things not to show up during internal testing is if no internal testing took place.

So I don't think there is a development group to fire. Neutral


That would be there is no QA group to fire... really either this wasn't tested, or it was tested and someone said 'don't give a ****, deploy anyway'. That said, i did dl the full client and it 'works' at least i can see and move around CQ. Funny colors/textures missing though. Haven't tried to leave station yet though...

and the no running multiple clients, well that kills my gameplay. No need to have multiple accounts if I can't use more than one at a time. So that's 2/3 of the cash/month less that you will get from me if it doesn't get fixed. I'm sure that's the case for all who have multiple accounts. That's losing money on a patch, if I'm not mistaken.

Oldgray Tao
Posted - 2011.06.22 03:02:00 - [192]
 

So let's see if we can't get a straight forward answer to this. ATI Radeon X 1600 supports Incarna or not?

Rees Noturana
Red Rock Mining Company
Posted - 2011.06.22 03:07:00 - [193]
 

After a rough experience with the broken patch I managed to get a functional full installer. I have installed on both my Mac Pro and MacBook Pro. Login and right click issues are resolved. Running with reduced graphic settings definitely helps keep the MacBook Pro a lot quieter.

So far I've only tested basic walking around, undocking and shooting some rats in the belts. I'll update later once I have more time to push the system and maybe get multiple clients running.

da go
Posted - 2011.06.22 03:09:00 - [194]
 

Originally by: Tippia
To put this in perspective, I am probably one of the most trouble-free OSX client users ever.

I never get broken files. I always manage to patch the client. None of the more complicated problems in this thread affect me (aside from the ones listed on page 1). I've always had good performance before this patch, in spite of what others may report, and I get good performance in this patch. I even get decent performance in CQ when I have it turned on. I think my Quafe t-shirt looks very snazzy. I never seem to get bitten by the nasty bugs some people report. Hell, I can play the game semi-acceptably on my MB Air. I am, in short, the best-case scenario…
Same here.
Originally by: Tippia
So I don't think there is a development group to fire. Neutral
It's not a question of firing someone. It's a question of changing the whole development process. I do not mean they should ditch SCRUM. If it works for them, fine. But the whole mentality to announce things when you have the idea for someting and that you must deploy twice an year is wrong. Or at least it bears as an almost unavoidable consequence a bug ridden deployment.

They should switch to having an expansion when it's ready, not when it's scheduled.

Originally by: Tippia
Ok, fair enough, but I'm still questioning why it makes sense. Will Lion do away with the Preference directory, and if not, why shouldn't this stuff go in there? And why should the client ignore its own plist? And why should it not be able to use multiple preference sets for multiple instances? And… so on…
It's 5 am. Mind if I answer this tomorrow? Mind if I answer it in one of the other threads (those specific to that probelm)?

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2011.06.22 03:09:00 - [195]
 

Edited by: Tippia on 22/06/2011 03:10:01
Originally by: Oldgray Tao
So let's see if we can't get a straight forward answer to this. ATI Radeon X 1600 supports Incarna or not?
It's a SM3.0-capable chip, so it should be supported.

It probably counts as "below minimum spec", though, but I'm not up to snuff on the ATI naming conventions, so I could be wrong about that.
Originally by: da go
It's 5 am. Mind if I answer this tomorrow? Mind if I answer it in one of the other threads (those specific to that probelm)?
Do go (sorry, couldn't resist… Razz).

da go
Posted - 2011.06.22 03:12:00 - [196]
 

Originally by: Matavhe Rems
Tried that earlier. Nope. It ignores your previous prefs files and starts from scratch. I was able to COPY the 4GB older prefs file over, rename it to the default, and it works. But eve ignores the prefs file name you enter in the info.plist and ONLY uses the default file name. If it doesn't find one, it MAKES one, which means NO settings.
4GB is huge. Try again. But delete the cache folder (only that) in your original preference folder.

It worked for me. It imported all my TQ settings. At least all that I did check so far (for examples all the windows I had open where still there).

Malargo Amilupar
Posted - 2011.06.22 03:13:00 - [197]
 

My saga:

First I downloaded the patch, couldn't log in until I tried the cut and paste trick.

CQ was totally non functional, maybe 1 fps (generous).

Then I trashed the old install and downloaded the new client. Hooray! The ship on the opening screen does not stutter across the screen, and I can log in!

Boo! CQ is still useless, I now get maybe 5 fps when moving, but the UI elements take SECONDS to respond to a click. I added skills to the que and logged. Evil or Very Mad

Here are my system specs, they do not suck but are also not the latest. Given the terrible performance of the client, I don't know what it could take to make this playable:

Processor Name: Intel Core 2 Duo
Processor Speed: 3.06 GHz
Number Of Processors: 1
Total Number Of Cores: 2
L2 Cache: 6 MB
Memory: 4 GB
Bus Speed: 1.07 GHz
Chipset Model: NVIDIA GeForce 8800 GS
Type: GPU
Bus: PCIe
PCIe Lane Width: x16
VRAM (Total): 512 MB

da go
Posted - 2011.06.22 03:15:00 - [198]
 

Originally by: Nouney Constantine
Installing new client
I m surpirised by the 9gig

it says on patch note full incarna mac client will weight 4.9gig....
You should distinguish gigabytes and gibibytes. The download is 4.9 gibibytes, not the installed client.

The download is about 5.32 gigabytes, the client about 9.42 gigabites.

da go
Posted - 2011.06.22 03:24:00 - [199]
 

Originally by: Toshiko Kin
That would be there is no QA group to fire... really either this wasn't tested, or it was tested and someone said 'don't give a ****, deploy anyway'.
It's more like: make a list of all problems, then prioritize them and solve them in order of priority. We'll deploy on june 21 with whatever we managed to fix and then fix the rest later.

Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Oldgray Tao
So let's see if we can't get a straight forward answer to this. ATI Radeon X 1600 supports Incarna or not?
It's a SM3.0-capable chip, so it should be supported.

It probably counts as "below minimum spec", though, but I'm not up to snuff on the ATI naming conventions, so I could be wrong about that.
Not supported until Apple/ATI fix the drivers. This is official.

Angela Maya
Amarr
Posted - 2011.06.22 03:39:00 - [200]
 

Known Issues in Mac
HUD(Head Up Display) still showing after docked in station
Current Speed in HUD always shows (WARPPING) even it is not

Wurrp
Minmatar
Sadistic Consortium
Posted - 2011.06.22 03:40:00 - [201]
 

A little update to all:

Im running the game on a 2010 model Macbook pro 15"
i7 Processor
4GB DDR3 Ram
Nvidia GT330M Card with 512MB VRam

- I had all the problems as evryone els
- I downloaded the Huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuge client (thx ccp...)
- I opened up the downloaded client and thx to my lazyness i set it to replace the one i had
- Wait
- Wait
- Wait some more
- Opened the game and it worked much smoother
- i set the graphics settings as they were before incarna and this is what i have so far:
- Inside the station i'm having some lagg but i do realize that it might be my Graphics card suffering, i havent really looked into the new demands..
- In space the atmosphere seams heavier than before, meaning a little less fps. Although im running with 20-30+ fps so i really can't complain.
So my conclusion is that although it's REALLY hard to believe that this computer might be getting too old to run this game optimally, i can live with a bit lag inside the station, as long as i have no lag what so ever in space, cause thats where things happen.
With that said i do realize that i will have a problem when ill be walking around at the station and i find myself walking with other players, kinda afraid that my computer will melt he he :-D

Chien Lang
Minmatar
Shamba Freedom Forces
Posted - 2011.06.22 03:44:00 - [202]
 

DL'd patch [before looking here...d'oh!]
The patch failed the verification, stating that some files were modified. Is there a way to remove the patch file and wait until a better (?) update gets released?

This is the first time I've ever encountered a problem with an update.

Munesous
Posted - 2011.06.22 03:58:00 - [203]
 

I downloaded the full Incarna client, installed it, and it seems to work well. However, when I fire up EVE it says there is a client update I should download. "Incarna 1.0 Client Update #1" It gets 80% through the download then fails with the message "unable to install update, click OK to continue". The good news is the game still plays, the bad news is I can't install/download the update.

SmugBaldy
AWE Corporation
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2011.06.22 04:18:00 - [204]
 

Originally by: Chien Lang
DL'd patch [before looking here...d'oh!]
The patch failed the verification, stating that some files were modified. Is there a way to remove the patch file and wait until a better (?) update gets released?

This is the first time I've ever encountered a problem with an update.

Same here. Up until this patch I haven't had any issues patching the client. Today I downloaded the 950 MB patch file twice and it failed verification both times. I'm now well into the 3rd hour of downloading the 5GB full client.

So - is there a procedure for not losing my existing settings?




Malargo Amilupar
Posted - 2011.06.22 04:19:00 - [205]
 

O.k., I patched with the latest patch, and the CQ is better but still very slow. However, now my cursor has been replaces with a large square made up of a buch of multi-colored pixels.

Its progress I suppose.

Maybe it will be better in the morning.

Skeandu
Gallente
Paso Fino Industries
Posted - 2011.06.22 04:50:00 - [206]
 

Client completely unplayable... CQ absurdly slow on a dual quad mac pro. Go figure. Do you folks ever do any testing? Avatar reconfig results in a character on an acid trip... good grief CCP you should be embarrassed. Can we turn the CQ completely off somehow please?

Toshiko Kin
Amarr
Ministry of War
Posted - 2011.06.22 04:54:00 - [207]
 

Edited by: Toshiko Kin on 22/06/2011 04:54:13
Ok, enough whining and some real info...

On Shader Quality = High, textures for arms/hands and shirt/top missing replaced by textureless tennis ball yellow color. Other settings don't affect this, it is definitely the shader settings.

Shader Quality = Low, low textures are present... but really, the dock looks ugly...

I'm assuming this is the same problem that has existed for a while where the 'damaged' stations in missions/plexes are all red and extremely hard on cpu/gpu where shader quality = high, but ok on low. Maybe?

More as I play around...

Toshiko Kin
Amarr
Ministry of War
Posted - 2011.06.22 04:56:00 - [208]
 

One other thing... /dance doesn't seem to do anything... is this being looked into?

Cahll
Posted - 2011.06.22 05:07:00 - [209]
 

Edited by: Cahll on 22/06/2011 05:14:28
CCP seem to think it's patchable now.
Anyone done it? Verdict?

I'm on an incredibly tight data allowance so I can't risk downloading it until I start seeing some positive comments.

Caxie
Posted - 2011.06.22 05:37:00 - [210]
 

For those of you having trouble with multiple clients with Incarna I figured out that you just have to change the string under the key CFBundleName in the Info.plist file.

I have a screencast available for those that are more visual at: Incarna Multi-Client for Mac.


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