| Author |
Topic |
Gallic IronBorne
Caldari
Optsec Technology Corporation
Trade Wind Commodities |
Posted - 2011.06.17 02:44:00 - [ 1111]
WOW are you people at CCP smoking crack ???? Stick to beer and other liquor it what allows your programing to work ..... drugs are bad .... please do not do this you will screw yourselves here are the epic fails this year so far
**** ups so far this year
1. ccp nerfs 0.0
2. CCP releases half assed expansions
3. CCP wants 99.00 bucks a year to advertise there game
... the list seems to be growing ...come on put the crack pipes down and go to rehab.
|
Dracoliche
Stiff Pickle Collection Agency |
Posted - 2011.06.17 03:22:00 - [ 1112]
^ Almost all of this.
GREAT NEWS FOR EVERYONE,
Not.
That's why everyone is so happy right? |
Moizo
Abh Empire
Intrepid Crossing |
Posted - 2011.06.17 03:36:00 - [ 1113]
Isn't the whole point of making something $99,- to let people think its not actually as much as $100,- when it kinda is? Sounds like it was thought up as a commercial thing to me...
With all the third party sites that make this game playable going down, is ccp planning something to uhm..
* Remedy the inability to plot a course for a Jump-capable ship ingame.
* Let a player view market data from regions other then its current one.
* Let a player see how far he has to go for a certain skill.
* Let a player calculate build costs.
* Let a player use something other then the ingame notepad to figure out a good fit...
* And all those other things that wont be possible if this gets trough...
|
Levaria
Gallente
Incertae Sedis
Atlas. |
Posted - 2011.06.17 03:43:00 - [ 1114]
First the Aurum shannanigans and now this... CCP where do you get your special kool-aid and how much of it have you drank? Good idea fairy is abound I see. This is a insult to a gaming community that spends its own time and efforts plugging the gaping holes that you leave behind as developers, there is a way to license IP. But ****ing all over your user base and 3rd party dev base is just plain wrong. |
Observer One |
Posted - 2011.06.17 03:46:00 - [ 1115]
was asked by eve-central.com to protest, so here is my protest
15€ per month per account isn't enough already, you want go gain $ like blizzard, but don't construct a harsh world with evil "wardec", "pirates" and "i can field more titans, i win by default"
and lie people that support your ebil game with their own brain and time in the face - 0.01$ ... would be enough for your ID-whatsoever
it seems you need some extra cash urgently, but then just use the money from "fund raise for ..." for whatever you need, nobody will ever notice --- OOOPSS! - blind bull's eye?!
|
Yutaka Kaikei
Caldari
Pack Mule Courier Service |
Posted - 2011.06.17 03:58:00 - [ 1116]
 Originally by: "EULA: 10,c:Specific Restrictions"
You may not copy, distribute, rent, lease, loan, modify or create derivative works of, adapt, translate, perform, display, sublicense or transfer any information accessible through the System, including without limitation, any part of the Game Content or User Content, or any item, object or character in your Account, except that, solely to the extent permitted by the System, you may modify certain Game Content and User Content only for your own purposes in playing the Game.
Unless I'm particularly mistaken, this clause prevents anybody using the API for ANY purpose, let alone the generation of income. Seems to me that the ability to take advantage of the XML output CCP provides is more on the basis of a 'gift', however I would argue that their making this information available (in breach of their own EULA) would void that section of the EULA. Feedback would be nice. Originally by: "Terms of Service: Second end clause"
THESE RULES MAY BE REVISED AT ANY TIME. IT IS YOUR RESPONSIBILITY TO REVIEW THEM OCCASIONALLY TO ENSURE THAT YOU ARE IN COMPLIANCE WITH THE RULES, POLICIES AND AGREEMENTS DESIGNATED BY CCP.
If they change the ToS, they don't even have to tell us. If they change the EULA, it'll come up as a clickwrap agreement at the load of the game. There is no way in which they would make an amendment and a person would not be bound by it... so bear in mind people that we're responsible for keeping an eye on things ourselves. I have no issue with monetization, particularly where it's valid and has been simply overlooked... But there is no way to rationalise the creation of a game system with a fundament of in-game player-initiated services, and then to apply a real-world financial penalty to such services. Whoever drafted this policy has let their zeal get the better of them. You do not charge people a fee to take advantage of a system for which they already pay. You simply do not.If people make money off your Intellectual Property, by all means take a piece of the pie. I'm a capitalist and it's a monetaristic world, and that's not just your option - it's your entitlement. However - I am not paying to advertise in-game services (for ISK) through a website which is not owned by CCP. Period. I would rather cancel my subscription, and I guarantee CCP will lose a damn sight more than 99 euros when I take my capitalist vote back to blizzard. |
Nak hak |
Posted - 2011.06.17 04:23:00 - [ 1117]
Bad idea.
"You have to be trusted by the people that you lie to,
So that when they turn their backs on you,
You'll get the chance to put the knife in."
Now, I can't get this damn song out for my mind. |
Viktor Del'Grande
Gallente Forschung und Entwicklungscorp
|
Posted - 2011.06.17 04:30:00 - [ 1118]
Dear "CCP BizDev Team", have you seen your trailer A future vision? No ... "BizDevTeam" : Take look at the it. Espescilly at the end. "Quote: Your choice always comes back around." I play this game since 2005 without disruption of my subscription and this is the awfulest idea ccp ever had. The second worst idea was the devblog about nerving the carriers. *shackes head* |
War Bear
Body Count Inc.
Pandemic Legion |
Posted - 2011.06.17 04:35:00 - [ 1119]
Christ on a pogo stick CCP never ceases to amaze me. You have annoyed Chribba. That makes me an angry bear. Knock it off already ffs. |
Obsidian Hawk
RONA Corporation
RONA Directorate |
Posted - 2011.06.17 05:17:00 - [ 1120]
Here is a counter proposal.
We keep our sites up, we put your banners up and talk about how cool eve is, and you dont charge us anything.
Also, charging Chribba for his services or any of his sites, is a #@%@#% $^@#^@#$%$#@%@%$ (more explitives than pulp fiction here) bad idea.
people like
eve -central
eve survival guild
eve files
eve files
eve search
eve offline
eve geek
battle clinic
eve kill
ARE 100% crucial to eve's well being. Charging them 100 bucks a year to DO YOUR JOB is just stupid. YOU as a company should be supporting them by paying for their sites fees, giving them free banners, hell pay them in plexes for all the hard work they do. |
Callidus Dux
Caldari |
Posted - 2011.06.17 05:22:00 - [ 1121]
Edited by: Callidus Dux on 17/06/2011 05:58:50
Hello CCP,
What exact you are doing here? You announce a dovblog and then you are amazed that NO ONE!!!! likes your more than dumb ideas?
Do not fool your customer. Such a step ist well deliberated. I do not believe that you are so dumb as you do now. I think you try to gamble the player base and now you are surprised that no one likes this s h i t and you got so an hard response. Rightly!
You even add insult to injury by comments like:
What's interesting is that most, if not all, of the issues that are being raised are because of confusing wording, terminology or misunderstandings in the draft document.
Thats a totaly lie! There was nothing to read about a draft! There was absolut NO [!!!!!!!] room for misunderstandings.
You clearly said: We want money because other people uses our API. Nothing more and nothing less. I am very upset that you try to fool your loyal customer in such a way. If no one would say: CCP STop this thing and some statements with asshats, YOU would 100% take over all the little misunderstanings 1:1 !
I play EVE since 2008. In this time I got only ONE questionary from CCP. But there were no elementary questions like: What would YOU like to change. There were such useless questions like: Play you the german client? Is the translation good; Have we shiny buttons that you like? ...
I do not do the work for CCP anymore. No help in the german HILFE, no bug reports because too much indiots ignores you or dont want to apprehend your problem. And soon? No new tools like EVEmon? Thats the way CCP goes. Please make an devblog in which way EVE should go in 5 years. BUT NOT ONLY THE SHINY THINGS! I want to know all! new taxes for whatelse; "features" I can buy with RL money and all the other little misunderstandings you would like to present as an innovation. Than I can decide, if EVE is a game for the next years or is it only for the next weeks.
I do not believe Mr. Zulu who plays as this whole **** is an misunderstanding. WTF?
I do not believe CCP anymore.
Very important for me:
Fire the responsible person who has sunk your "PR-Ship". At least degrade him to clean your toilets and garbage cans. |
DraconisAlpha
Gallente |
Posted - 2011.06.17 05:35:00 - [ 1122]
Originally by: darmwand
Since our "feedback is not only welcomed but in fact essential to" you, this:
Originally by: Kronus Heilgar
You are charging people who work for free to make your game better you asshats
Originally by: Clambumper June
I did read the full 32 pages, but in a word this is completely F'd. Let me see, RL people pay a subscription fee to play EVE. They love the game so much they create apps to make the game both more fun internally and externally. Further locking your subscribers to their addiction. Now you want to charge people the equivalent of almost 7 months of subscription fees so they can publish their apps.
I realize Iceland economy sucks and you are the biggest thing since Leif Erikson put foot on that island, but give me and the rest a break. There has to be a reason you are starting after 8 years to charge for 3rd Party Developments. Either you have become as greedy as WOW or perhaps you are reduce your player base with people reducing accounts and/or rage quitting due to insult.
I honestly think it is the first of the two options above. CCP has determined that they can now make profit off of other peoples work. Bad idea, not good for business. GL
Originally by: darmwand
Since our "feedback is not only welcomed but in fact essential to" you, this:
Originally by: Kronus Heilgar
You are charging people who work for free to make your game better you asshats
|
xwolfi |
Posted - 2011.06.17 05:37:00 - [ 1123]
Never thought I would be disappointed by CCP one day, now it's done :( |
Edon
HUN Corp.
HUN Reloaded |
Posted - 2011.06.17 05:38:00 - [ 1124]
Judas, do you really need that 30 pieces of silver ? |
Montevius Williams
Gallente |
Posted - 2011.06.17 06:12:00 - [ 1125]
Hey CCP
Why dont you do what WoW does and incorporate some of the ideas from the community into the game. For example, make a skill training planer in game, or make an EFT in game. This would eliminate the need to download the mods in the first place.
WoW does this all the time with their game..If anyone here played WoW, Im sure you remember the quest helper mod. Then Im sure you remember when WoW "borrowed" the idea and put it in their game. And the community was happy becasue it one less mod they had to install. |
Scorson
Aideron Robotics
The Aideron Collective |
Posted - 2011.06.17 06:15:00 - [ 1126]
In Argentina its really hard to pay plex with cash, so I started playing with the condition of work for pay them with isk..
If free programs that fills the holes that CCP should be done, pass to be paid, I won't buy those so my experience will be half it is and should.
So CCP instead of charge anothers who do their job cause ccp didn't, they should develop those programs inside game first.
sorry my english |
QT McWhiskers
EdgeGamers
Situation: Normal |
Posted - 2011.06.17 06:43:00 - [ 1127]
Ok so I have been rolling this around in my head for a while now, and I can see some of your point. But only a small part. I can understand charging a small fee for sites that make money... however you went too far.
Every single MMO out there has in their TOS a clause about RMT, and EVE is not different.
You may not market, sell, advertise, promote, solicit or otherwise arrange for the exchange or transfer of items in the game or other game services unless it is for in-game sales of in-game services or items.
You said it right there. You can not charge RL currencies for in game money. In game items and services have no real world value. In fact you made this abundantly clear by making PLEX destroyable. When its etc, it has value, when its plex, its worthless in real world terms.
But see, now that you are going to charge for sites that make in game money and no real world value. You are now LEGITIMIZING every single RMT organization in eve online, because you are putting a real world value on isk. You are breaking your own EULA and TOS. Did you seriously not think this through?
As for charging for donations, that is actually one you cant enfore. Ok so I take the donation off of my website... in its place I link you to my twitter account where my headline is. "If you would like to support my work please donate here (link)." Now there is no donation on my website so you cant charge me. But I am still getting donations. Now I would like to point out that I am not telling everyone to do this, I am just listing one of the hundreds of gray areas that get around this.
Another thing on the donations. My gaming clan is MUCH more than just eve. We are a multi game community that had many servers. Will you charge our gaming community the 99 dollars because we ask for donation to keep our FPS servers up and running? Will you charge us for the eve online ads we have running?
You left WAY too many unanswered questions. You cant come out with a small dev blog and list general points like that. You need to come up with a FULL contract and make the contract available for all to read to take care of all of the unanswered questions before they happen.
|
Louis Vitton
Kickass inc
Controlled Chaos |
Posted - 2011.06.17 07:02:00 - [ 1128]
I am here to support all the App developers out there who run apps and website.
I think they should not be force to pay fees due to CCP's war on RMT. |
Yutaka Kaikei
Caldari
Pack Mule Courier Service |
Posted - 2011.06.17 07:14:00 - [ 1129]
Originally by: QT McWhiskers
But see, now that you are going to charge for sites that make in game money and no real world value. You are now LEGITIMIZING every single RMT organization in eve online, because you are putting a real world value on isk. You are breaking your own EULA and TOS. Did you seriously not think this through?
Neither the TOS nor the EULA are legally binding to CCP, as they are not subscribers. They are one-way agreements to which we are accountable, and they are responsible for enforcement. What CCP is actually talking about doing here, is modifying their TOS and EULA to include a new accountability for end-users whereby we must submit to the charges, and may have our subscriptions revoked in the usual way (including game time not being refunded) if we fail to comply. There is a theoretical debate whether CCP encouraging actions in breach of the TOS or EULA would invalidate the enforcability of the related sections of the agreements, but there is nothing in there which controls the actions CCP are allowed to make. Also note that the privision is in there to allow CCP to make amendments to their TOS and EULA, without advance notice or a requirement to inform us of the changes. I'm not saying they will, but this is the black and white of what we have already agreed to. |
Keegan Teutorix |
Posted - 2011.06.17 07:19:00 - [ 1130]
Edited by: Keegan Teutorix on 17/06/2011 07:20:48
I'm also here just to say a huge Thank You to all the third party devs out there who make Eve playable. I never really though about how many of the tools I use nearly every time I sign on to Eve were created without any help at all from CCP. The other day I wanted to try out a new ship, so I went to BattleClinic to look up fits for an idea how to fit it, then I pulled up EFT to play with the fits until I had something to my liking. I used EveMon to figure out how long it would take to train the few missing skills I didn't have, and then I pulled up eve-central and jeveassests to figure out how much the whole venture was going to cost me. And finally I logged into Eve.
So to all the people out there who put in hours or days or months or years of their own time into collecting the information, coding the applications, and producing the guides and videos that have made my experience in Eve about the people, the events, and the stories and not the numbers, my sincerest thanks, you guys are amazing. |
coolzero
Gallente |
Posted - 2011.06.17 07:54:00 - [ 1131]
i dont write apps for eve(programming languages are all mumbojumbo to me) but this is a baad idea.
if every app maker and websites about eve would unplug till this licence thing gets resolved(so no more cribba(bless thy name) services..no more dolan..no more battleclinic.
i think CCP will start screaming like little girlies in their offices.
|
Lucifer Lollipop |
Posted - 2011.06.17 07:56:00 - [ 1132]
"$99 is the lowest that we estimated that we could reasonably go and still justify the cost of the service." - from here http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=901
Identifying what the service is:
Ability to charge money for 3rd party apps.
Abiliy to put "licensed application for EVE" with the app or service.
All apps and services today are funded or supported by other means like adds or ISK-donations. Now you are making that cost money. So basically you are adding the possibility to charge money directly and removing A LOT MORE POSSIBILITIES that WERE WORKING ALREADY. Since you are changing something that already works to something everyone hates and doesn't seem to work you must be doing it to make money. What other reason could there be? This is not a service for the app-developers because they don't want it.
This is not a new service. This is a charge.
I know trying to talk a company out of making something worse but making a few moneys is like discussing something with an idiot but please AT LEAST ADMIT THAT YOU ARE DOING THIS TO MAKE MONEY - YOU'RE DOING THIS FOR NOTHING AND MEAN ABSOLUTELY NOTHING ELSE.
Read the thread. We don't want this. |
Stina Sorkslyngel |
Posted - 2011.06.17 07:59:00 - [ 1133]
Show me how much this service would cost and EXACTLY where the money goes. If it's 99$ then fine you weren't lying. Then show me a independent survey proving the players and the app-developers want this, then fine you weren't doing it only to make money. |
Florian Fagerfet |
Posted - 2011.06.17 08:01:00 - [ 1134]
CCP, you are stupid. Please don't get kids. |
amidaros veleta |
Posted - 2011.06.17 08:03:00 - [ 1135]
Hi all,
All this will do is make the everyday eve players pay more.
3rd party program providers will just put a price on thier apps to counter the fee they are being charged.
i honestly think that removing isk donations from the charged list would be wise. anyone charging rl money for it can then be slapped with the 99 buck fee
Amidaros Out! |
Bomberlocks
Minmatar
CTRL-Q |
Posted - 2011.06.17 08:11:00 - [ 1136]
CCP: If I were to ask an Icelandic friend to acquire and translate the latest CCP financial info, would I find that CCP is running at a loss?
The reason I ask this is because the latest few scams schemes (MT/Aurum - ships for munni, 99 dollah, yo) from CCP increasingly give me the impression that CCP is in desperate need for cash money.
I could of course be wrong, and CCP could just be money grabbing asshats with no vision beyond the next quarterly financials like a great many companies out there, but with the many givens on what we know about CCP - terrible salaries, no in-house training, enormous amounts of invested and liquid cash spent on developing as-yet return-free projects like Dust and WoD over the past few years, EVE playerbase stagnating - it makes a certain amount of sense to assume that RL dollah is indeed in short supply in Reykjavik.
Thus, I ask myself if CCP has not gotten itself caught in a vicious circle where there is a shortage of development resources to improve the broken aspects of CCP's premier title, EVE online, due to a pressing need to complete the other titles due to contractual obligations with Sony and others etc.
The ironic thing, in my view, is that most of CCP's most loyal customers, those who have been playing EVE for years, are its best marketing tools and that CCP's actions over the past year or two have been actively driving them away, thus leading to another vicious circle of ever tightening belts and increasingly desperate attempts to compensate the financial losses.
CCP: Have you ever considered that the remedy might be far simpler than you imagine?:
1. Listen carefully to your customers' complaints and suggestions (Most players I know have the feeling that CCP is extremely alienated from the playerbase and more interested in the hare-brained schemes of certain privileged developers - Hi Torfi - than its customers).
2. Fix the most common broken things in EVE itself (This, I think, CCP actually started doing after the :18months: fiasco last year, but it needs to be scaled and sped up to be viewed as more than a token, otherwise it'll be too little, too late)
3. Lastly, but possibly most importantly, CCP needs to vastly improve internal and external communications (This current 99 dollah disaster could have been avoided if CCP had run it by the CSM first, but even running it by more people within CCP itself, aka realising the potential controversy and thus stating explicitly that the idea is a draft would have dampened the potential fallout)
CCP has done its brand an enormous amount of damage over the past couple of years and has started losing many of its most loyal customers as a result of broken trust and no amount of laughable claims like those made by Torfi in an interview over Dust that EVE has over 400'000 active players will change that. |
Sellendis
Caldari |
Posted - 2011.06.17 08:16:00 - [ 1137]
Lets get started... Quote:
You are charging people who work for free to make your game better you asshats
Now thats out of the way....WTF? WTF are you people doing CCP? Funding your soon to be FAIL projects? Over our backs? 99$ for what? Do you have any, ANY ideas how much apps like EFT and EveMon help your players? Since you at CCP cant be bothered to make a fitting tool worth a crap. How about a app like EveMon? Did you make one? Hell no, so let us charge people that bust their asses to make FREE apps to help your game. Chribbas services? Dotlan? Nameless others? Slapping them in the face and then presenting 99$ bill when they promote eve for YEARS. If CCP had any of this services to offer for free, and 3rd party devs charged money for their own versions, i could understand (and it is a big IF) charging a license to them. Fail after fail in gameplay changes, ignoring bug reports on test server for weeks and bugs going to TQ anyway is epic fail, but i guess you are used to it. Now comes damage control, couse, lets face it, we are stupid and we didn't understand you. Yeah, right. You have players devote their playing time to hunt for bugs you made, and players pay to do your work. Players report bots and devote their time to help you, and again they do your jobs, jobs you are paid for. 3rd party developers make free apps to help people play your game, so they stay with the game longer and pay more subs, and you charge them? The community should tell you to **** off next time you ask for mass testing on Sisi. You want our help to find bugs? F you, pay us. You want us to hunt bots for you? F you, pay us. Other MMOS hire people for bug/beta testing. They hire people to hunt for bots. And here you charge your own customers to do your job. And in the end, you dont do it at all. |
Iajj
Amarr |
Posted - 2011.06.17 08:24:00 - [ 1138]
|
betty drunkenlord |
Posted - 2011.06.17 08:27:00 - [ 1139]
Edited by: betty drunkenlord on 17/06/2011 08:28:54Dear CCP, What about a counter idea - pay 99USD a year to people who created and run websites that add functionality to your game. They have proved to be adding significant value to your game because of large visitors numbers. Dotlan, evenews24, evemon, eft and others saved you thousands or not millions of USD by not having to hire developers and pay them to create and maintain the functionality that is provided by those sites. 99USD is not much but should be enough to cover at least some of their server maintenance costs. Seriously, your proposal is at least insulting to the community and people who spent many hours essentially for free doing stuff that enhanced your game and saved you lots of money. Who do you think your player base is - stupid addicted kids who eat propaganda from your spoon?  I'm seriously ****ed off at you. No CCP you cannot haz my stuff. - bd |
Tatiana Nixx |
Posted - 2011.06.17 08:33:00 - [ 1140]
Edited by: Tatiana Nixx on 17/06/2011 08:33:45 Originally by: betty drunkenlord
Edited by: betty drunkenlord on 17/06/2011 08:28:54
Dear CCP,
What about a counter idea - pay 99USD a year to people who created and run websites that add functionality to your game. They have proved to be adding significant value to your game because of large visitors numbers. Dotlan, evenews24, evemon, eft and others saved you thousands or not millions of USD by not having to hire developers and pay them to create and maintain the functionality that is provided by those sites. 99USD is not much but should be enough to cover at least some of their server maintenance costs.
Seriously, your proposal is at least insulting to the community and people who spent many hours essentially for free doing stuff that enhanced your game and saved you lots of money. Who do you think your player base is - stupid addicted kids who eat propaganda from your spoon?
I'm seriously ****ed off at you. No CCP you cannot haz my stuff.
- bd
Betty Drunkenlord for President! |
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