Posted - 2011.06.01 17:25:00 - [2]

 

Not trying to be an @ss but your asking for questions regardign just about every aspect of industry. I could write pages on what your asking here.

Be a bit more specific and maybe I will respond or others will.

Posted - 2011.06.01 17:45:00 - [4]

 

For most of what you listed your going to need to set up a POS to do it with any efficiency...

Posted - 2011.06.01 18:02:00 - [6]

 

Wow... I thought an idea on figures was all I asked for... I have 50 bil I'm looking at investing into this so my asking was simply just a ballpark figure and idea.. If your going to be offensive then be my guest. Sheesh. I'm a very busy person with RL family + kids with limited time. I wanted to know if it's worth it or not to involve myself in this fashion.

You seriously are making me reconsider going back to knocking you indy folk upside the head with my PVP ALTs for fun again, making profits off your hauling stupid amounts of isk in the puny haulers.

Posted - 2011.06.01 18:14:00 - [8]

 

Edited by: Zifrian on 01/06/2011 18:15:24
Is it feasible? Maybe. Depends.

You are asking a very broad question, which is difficult to answer and honestly, not to side with the others you find hostile, you need to do your own research because no one will have a ballpark answer for you.

I'm assuming you don't have much experience with industry? For example, "T2 invention and building" is what exactly? Ships? Mods? Rigs? Ammo? So say you choose ships, what type of ships? Jump freighters or HAC's? You choose Jump freighters. So what one is profitable? Well, what race are you using? How are you getting your bp's? Are they copies or bpo's? Where are you building it? Do you have component bpo's or do you need to get them to research? How much are the raw materials? Skipping the raw materials? How much are the components? Did you build your own freighter or going to build your own? Where do you get those bp's?

You see where I'm going? There are so many variables to consider that when I do my research on a particular item, I'm not just going to go out there and say "Oh hey stranger, you can make money selling the same thing I am!" and do your work for you.

In short, if you want to find out if it's profitable or feasible to do any one of those things you listed, do some research. The information is out there.

Posted - 2011.06.01 18:18:00 - [10]

 

Simply put... to run your operations... how many hours a week are you putting in?

That's not subjective or broad... How much TIME are you putting into your industrial aspects of the game.

That was the original question I asked... yes I asked for a little bit of a break down but really I must have struck a nerve... I'm not looking for cutting into your INDY... I want time spent... That's it!!!

Posted - 2011.06.01 18:34:00 - [12]

 

Edited by: Zifrian on 01/06/2011 18:35:19
Sorry, I didn't want to jump on the bandwagon and I wasn't trying to mock, just to convey the complexity of industry. I wasn't really clear on what you were asking I guess.

Time? To be honest I don't even really know. I have my operations set up so that my alt does my copies, I do my invention, and my other alt does manufacturing along with me. While I'm doing all this, I run missions or mine. So it's really not something I could measure accurately. Some days I just log in to run invention jobs and manufacturing jobs then log out...then log in when the timers are up. So an hour a day? But that's now, earlier I would spend all day doing stuff. For instance, making T1 ships requires minerals, can you fly a freighter? If not, then you need to work with buy orders...sometimes those can take days to complete. Is the ship you are building going to sell quickly to make money or will you take a loss because the market changed over a month you had it up? It's all part of research etc.

The previous suggestion of T1 manufacturing is a good place to start as it seems you haven't done industry? If not, then you have to start there and work out how to get minerals and where you are going to build, where to get BP's, etc.

It is complicated but every level builds upon another. So start slow and continue to research the market. Plus, the markets change so trying to anticipate that is a good thing.

Posted - 2011.06.01 18:40:00 - [14]

 

I dabble mainly -- I'm nowhere near the industrial tycoon that some people are.

Maybe a few hours a week tops, most of the time a whole lot less.

I just looked into capships recently. You're looking at somewhere around 15-20 billion for the parts, then 6-8 bn for the dreads (1.5-2bn per ship, 1 ship per race), 6-8 bn for the carriers (see dreads), 4-5 bn for the freighters (1-1.25 bn per, 1 ship/race).

SO - full-fledged "I can build any capship" tops out at 45-50 bn or so (maybe a touch higher if you get into orca/rorqual). Yeah, when I saw that, I decided to stick to subcap for now.

This is before you calculate that you're needing anywhere from about 300m (Orca) to 1.3b (carrier/dread) in minerals to actually BUILD the thing.

Couple that with low sales volumes, and you're tying up a whole lot of ISK for very little reward.

Posted - 2011.06.01 19:00:00 - [16]

 

Originally by: Lando Antilles

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TL;DR EDIT - from 6 hrs a day to 2 hrs a week... it's up to you.

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^^ This.

The question you are asking needs a modifier. You asked how much time do you need to spend in production of stuff? You can spend 15 minutes a week doing something towards your production desires, if you want. How often do you want to do it?

The question you should have asked is, with X amount of capital I want to make X ISK a week; how much time does it take to do that? Or possibly, I have X amount of capital and want to use it in this cap production and have X amount of hours to spend a week; how much profit can I expect to make that week if I do it well?

Posted - 2011.06.01 19:30:00 - [18]

 

Edited by: Quazal Atreides on 01/06/2011 19:33:41

ok ill try 'n' offer some times/advice having done most that indi has too offer..

T2... (i do modules) this is probably the most time consuming.. the steps invovled ..

Invention... assume 50% success on modules... means you can invent 10{11maxed out}) per 75 minutes.. so from 10 you get 5 success..... so thats 50 worth of runs every 75minutes as an average...

I build roughly 1500>3000mods per week.. so to do that you need to keep on inventing at a very very high rate ((roughly 300>600 inventions a week) (this is 60hours of near babysitting, or relogging toon back in to change install job) and at 5/7minutes to install 10 jobs.. that equates to about 3>6hours per week just for the invention..
So youve got your mods..

Now you need to shop .. assume you already have the compoenent bpc's and they are already researched.. so you treck to jita/amarr *other system* then you need to spend 3bill on the mats..
haul that crap back... put it in the right hangers in the pos... this takes for me about 4 hours per week..

So you plug in your jobs.. (i work on 4 modules. so have roughly 15 types of components to make) these take upto 4 days to make all the comps for all the t2 modules..

You can then begin to build the final modules... so you build 10 jobs per day (assuming 24hour build time.. some are 15hours, some are 50hours build) you then have to babysit these.... I try and get the jobs to finish at a time i can change the buld jobs over immediatly to keep the pos working 24/7/365-- again another 4hours work to install jobs...

so as you can see all these smal jobs take up time... then ofc finally you have to haul your built goods to sell... say 7 jumps -- another 30minutes.... then you have 2 choices.. sell them on bulk trade (quick, easy, but less profit) or list on market, (again do you babysit your orders, or just list and forget and wait for them to finally sell) so all in at least another 30minutes of work

so ther ya go... thats my guesstimates on the t2 prod times


CAP SHIPS

These are a lot easier... simply place buy orders (30mins) for the mats, haul them (1hour) and plug in the build jobs for the comps
when finished move to XL ship array etc...and plug in freighter/dread etc job... so all in per Cap ship you only looking at something like 3/4hours per ship


So as many people have said, each job takes differing time frames... but the longer the build time on the end product the less time involved to build said ship.. (obviously this isn't including if you mine the ore lol)


hope this offers some insight....

Posted - 2011.06.01 19:45:00 - [20]

 

Originally by: Deadloch

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Wow Quazal... That was a lot of time and effort you put into that response. I really do appreciate the breakdown of T2 production. Looks very complicated and time consuming... but since everyone and their mother is flying T2 nowadays, (either ships or mods) there's always a market and profit to be had.

Market Trading has been fun, but I'm more of a sell to major Alliances kind of guy. They will pay more for something you drag close to their territory in lowsec.

That many mods looks to take a lot of work... 60 hrs a week... Full time job. Looks like Capital Ships / Freighters for me.

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lol aye tbh in past i used to sell to 1/2 traders.. but after they **nnied about with trying to get my prices down by more than i was prepared.. i went alone..

Obviosly the 60hours doens't mean you cant do other things.. ie during the invention tie etc.. but babysitting.. obivously if you were doing ships.. then this time is drastically reduced... so for eg.. BS they take 3days to invent.. so you only need to instal invention every 3days :)... not every 75mins lol

Posted - 2011.06.01 20:27:00 - [22]

 

Ye its all possible depending on how many accounts you wish to run and how many dedicated alts to the task at hand you wish to run.


Personally i run 3 accounts 7 toons geared towards what i do... that is T2 invention, bpc copying and captial production.

captial production cost about 20 billion isk to set up thats all the bpos plus 6 cap ships bpos and another 8 billion spare isk for minerals to build 12 caps per month on AVERAGE 1 BILLION ISK PROFIT per month... that gonna take the best part of 2 years to pay off


Currently to date i have some 9 billion isk worth of ship bpos which i copy per month for some peanuts of 450 mil average per month of passive activity... ye thats crap

On top of that i do T2 ivention on average 100% profit on what i invest per cycle noramlly about 4 to 6 weeks to make 2 billion profit that takes daily activity to maintain... like every day... pure dedication type ****


Plus i'm running 2 large pos and have 3 toons for PI pos fuel on the go daily to reduce expensives AND i don't pay for any plex yet !!! on average i'm doing 3 billion a month...


THE QUESTION IS !!!


Do you have the daily dedication to run all of of this ? & the alts to train on spare accounts to make this effiecent ?

Posted - 2011.06.02 02:12:00 - [24]

 

Edited by: Zifrian on 02/06/2011 02:14:19

Originally by: Deadloch

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I was thinking just 2 ALTs. I still need my PVP one.

But Copying sounds like it could net some good profit. 20 slots would work well on 1 POS. Just make sure it's Highsec I guess. 450 a month passive for BPOs... That's easy passive stuff too.

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It's all reward vs. time or your Isk per hour. Running a POS is fine, but when you calculate it all out sometimes it's more trouble than it's worth. For instance, it takes about a month to run 10 copies of a cruiser blueprint for max runs. ME and PE values on cruisers are just as long for decent values (15ME for example.) Now carry that to BC/BS and Cap ships? It's a time sink and you have to put a lot of money into it to get started.

BTW, besides datacores, I don't think there is a "passive" form of isk in the game and that isn't completely passive. You still have to do hauling, trading, analyzing the markets for things like BPO's, all on top of managing a POS. IMO, that's not "passive ISK".

Basically, I would suggest you find a niche or three, and then focus on those. If there is a way to make money in EVE industry, someone will eventually find it. So knowing your niche is IMO key to how successful you are. If you are looking to do something passively to make isk, I honestly don't think there is a way to do it. Not for the amount of time you need to put into it. Might just want to get your datacore skills up and sell those. Much easier.

Posted - 2011.06.02 05:50:00 - [26]

 

Originally by: Whiteknight03

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The rest of us are busy too, do your own homework

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Evidently not busy enough to avoid making a minimal content post.

Posted - 2011.06.02 14:27:00 - [28]

 

Edited by: Dav Varan on 02/06/2011 15:02:16
Edited by: Dav Varan on 02/06/2011 14:56:05

Building T1 from a BPO would be a couple of hours a week.
.. Buy orders for minerals
.. Starting the build process ( Multiple runs over a period of a week or more upto 30 days)
.. setting up sell orders

Building from a T1 BPc will require more time as you have to sourse the BPc's and can only build for a short amount of time due to limited runs.


Making copies for Invention.
Half an hour every ~ 45 days.
Assuming you are using public labs ( Waiting time ) and run them for as close to 30 days as possible.

Note using a pos is a far more time consuming process as you have to ensure the pos is fueled about once every 3 weeks and fueling generally means a trip in an indi of some sort.

Invention is a complete time hog.
Many inventions take only a day or so to run down to a rediculas 2 hours for some ammos'
Invention is a click fest that requires huge inputs of time.


Building Cap components to sell , mean a lot of hauling in a freighter.
You can generally only sell them in Jita 4.4 and the manu slots there are allways booked solid and very expensive.
So you are looking at building them close to jita , with a couple of jumps and hauling them max 96 at a time iirc.
So your looking at 3 freighter runs from your build location to jita for every max ( 250 ) runs you do on a Cap subcomponent BPO.

BPC for subcap will completelly wipe out any profit margin you may get from a BPO tbh and a BPC sub cap has a run limit of 5 iirc or about 8 hours of build time.

So to sum up if you want indi that does not take up huge amouts of time you are looking at BPO ( T1 ) research or copying and T1 constuction from a BPO or T2 constuction from a BPO if you can afford a decent enough T2 Print.

In order from least time consuming to most time consuming I would guess at.

Not time consuming

1) T1 BPO research ( Copying or research and resale )
2) T1 BPO Construction
3) T2 BPO Construction ( Expensive to get into and more mats and skills required )

Moderatelly time consuming

4) T1 BPc Construction
5) T1 Cap Comp Construction from BPO.

Highly time consuming

5) T2 Bpc Construction ( Buying BPc off contracts if it is even possible ? )

Exceptionally time consuming

6) Invention.



As far as profitibility goes there is huge variation even amongst the catagories you are talking about.

Example last I looked vaga was nice profit , eagle was bottomless money pit hole.

Check out my spreadsheet has a column for profitability of different prints T1 BPO and T2 BPC inc invention costs.