| Author |
Topic |
Hermosa Diosas
Ministry Of Mining And Industry |
Posted - 2011.05.26 08:58:00 - [ 1]
The game is becoming completely risk free pvp - Neut RRs. Really..
Personally I think allowing any ship to remote rep is stupid and should be left to specialist ships but meh
So back to Neut RR - Either give them GCC or make it that only corp/allainces members can rep each other.
This is just stupid - sorry |
Hermosa Diosas
Ministry Of Mining And Industry
|
Posted - 2011.05.27 09:27:00 - [ 2]
Supporting my own |
Mystical Might
Amarr
The Imperial Fedaykin
|
Posted - 2011.05.27 12:07:00 - [ 3]
Stop. Whining.
ohlook, I fixed the problem for you CCP.
|
Gariboldi Phiron |
Posted - 2011.05.27 15:28:00 - [ 4]
1. I don't think I understand the problem you're trying to fix. How does neut RR create risk free PvP? IIRC in high sec if you RR someone with aggression you can be shot by anyone who can shoot the ships you RR.
2. This fix seems pretty heavy handed, do you realize what this would do to faction warfare and coalitions if you can only RR people in your own alliance? This would make mixed fleets and large battles almost impossible. |
Zammo Bahrut
Banana On A Plate |
Posted - 2011.05.27 15:40:00 - [ 5]
i'd not say 'risk free' but it does create an off-balance,
10 man corp A decs 10 man corp B. all fair and sexy
corp A has another 10 men which remain neutral and provide RR creating a 20m vs 10m situation and corp B can do little to counter..
except maybe get 10 neutral RR of their own, but then we end up in stalemate yawn-fest where every mofo has a neutral rr and nobody can kill anybody
I agree RR is a little wrong and needs addressing in some way
And while the argument 'huurrr deerr but you can shoot them' is valid, its a bit moot as then the war no longer becomes about shooting your wartargets.
I would agree that RR need be in corp/alliance (ie, they have to present a valid target / take risk of engagement); but its a very harsh way to solve an issue like this.
I would appreciate others input on neutral RR as well. |
Windjammer
Gallente
|
Posted - 2011.05.27 17:44:00 - [ 6]
|
Gariboldi Phiron |
Posted - 2011.05.27 17:54:00 - [ 7]
 Originally by: Zammo Bahrut
i'd not say 'risk free' but it does create an off-balance,
10 man corp A decs 10 man corp B. all fair and sexy
corp A has another 10 men which remain neutral and provide RR creating a 20m vs 10m situation and corp B can do little to counter..
Ok, so how is this situation different than corp A just having 20 members, of which 10 fly RR ships (or 10 RR mercenary pilots joining the corp after the war dec starts)? The only difference I see is that you can't shoot the RR ships until after they start repping instead of any time you see them, and I'm not sure why that would make a big difference. I'm against this far reaching proposal, but there might be a better narrowly tailored solution if it was clear exactly what the problem is. |
Sepheir Sepheron
Caldari
1st Grave
|
Posted - 2011.05.27 19:29:00 - [ 8]
Originally by: Mystical Might
Stop. Whining.
ohlook, I fixed the problem for you CCP.
1/10 |
Ghurthe |
Posted - 2011.05.27 20:13:00 - [ 9]
Force them to dock or leave grid, so you can't fight them till they get involved in the fight, deal with it.
Not supported |
Mr R4nd0m
|
Posted - 2011.05.27 21:01:00 - [ 10]
Edited by: Mr R4nd0m on 27/05/2011 21:01:24 Originally by: Ghurthe
Force them to dock or leave grid, so you can't fight them till they get involved in the fight, deal with it.
Not supported
lol obvious neut repper is obvious - i guess that applies when you think you have 2 v 2 targets and then suddenly see they are getting repped by 5 others you didnt know about, yeah really fair!! douche.. However supported neut reppers need sorting |
Val'Dore
Word Bearers of Chaos
Word of Chaos Undivided |
Posted - 2011.05.27 21:39:00 - [ 11]
Neutral RR and Blobs. The only solo pvp to be had is with your wife. Welcome to EvE. |
Kargan Durge |
Posted - 2011.05.28 01:56:00 - [ 12]
Originally by: Mr R4nd0m
Edited by: Mr R4nd0m on 27/05/2011 21:01:24
Originally by: Ghurthe
Force them to dock or leave grid, so you can't fight them till they get involved in the fight, deal with it.
Not supported
lol obvious neut repper is obvious - i guess that applies when you think you have 2 v 2 targets and then suddenly see they are getting repped by 5 others you didnt know about, yeah really fair!! douche..
However supported neut reppers need sorting
It's not fair? You gonna throw a tantrum now? Seriously, all you whiners about Neutral RR, just ***** because your to damn lazy to think tactics. All you want to have to do is bring gank DPS. Let's imagine for a moment, there's a game called "Rock, Paper, Siccors (roshambo or whatever). Rock beats siccors, paper beats rock, siccors beats paper. The idea is, u and ur opponent shake ur fists 3 times in unison. On the third shake u hand gesture ur attack... But here's the catch, YOU DON'T KNOW what he's gonna do! So you study ur opponent... Get all mental and Jedi like to OUT WITT your opponent! If you keep bringing the Rock, don't ***** cause he keeps bringing the Paper! Helps your odds of winning if you throw in a siccor or two. If by now you're still wondering what the siccors are in relation to Eve, well, you just flat suck and need to learn to Eve. BTW, just so you all know RR ships are available on the market to EVERYONE! Grow a brain, get a clue, stop whining, and learn to Eve. This thread, definitely NOT Supported! |
Awesome Possum
Original Sin.
PURPLE HELMETED WARRIORS |
Posted - 2011.05.28 12:05:00 - [ 13]
sorry you don't have any friends |
Hermosa Diosas
Ministry Of Mining And Industry |
Posted - 2011.05.28 13:07:00 - [ 14]
Originally by: Awesome Possum
sorry you don't have any friends
Oh stop crying - please dont take away my alt repper, cos im so lame at pvp i cant fight properly - Bhwaaaa |
Tao Zun
The Roaches
|
Posted - 2011.05.28 13:20:00 - [ 15]
Edited by: Tao Zun on 28/05/2011 13:29:36Edited by: Tao Zun on 28/05/2011 13:27:27 Originally by: Hermosa Diosas
The game is becoming completely risk free pvp - Neut RRs. Really..
Personally I think allowing any ship to remote rep is stupid and should be left to specialist ships but meh
So back to Neut RR - Either give them GCC or make it that only corp/allainces members can rep each other.
This is just stupid - sorry
Seems to me that you aren't mad about Nuet RRs as much as other people having them when you don't. It is completely fair in the aspect of a 10 man corp decs a 10 man corp. Well you should consider that fact that your opponent may have that before wardeccing someone. Aswell as you can utilize nuet RR yourself. As far as your GCC comment they already are red to you as soon as they rep your target and are targets free for you too shoot. Although I WOULD like to see an aggression timer where you cant dock or jump for a minute be implemented, just as if they were shooting you since they are contributing to the battle just as much as anyone. |
Cordo Draken
ABOS Industrial Enterprises |
Posted - 2011.05.29 08:04:00 - [ 16]
Originally by: Kargan Durge
Originally by: Mr R4nd0m
Edited by: Mr R4nd0m on 27/05/2011 21:01:24
Originally by: Ghurthe
Force them to dock or leave grid, so you can't fight them till they get involved in the fight, deal with it.
Not supported
lol obvious neut repper is obvious - i guess that applies when you think you have 2 v 2 targets and then suddenly see they are getting repped by 5 others you didnt know about, yeah really fair!! douche..
However supported neut reppers need sorting
It's not fair? You gonna throw a tantrum now? Seriously, all you whiners about Neutral RR, just ***** because your to damn lazy to think tactics. All you want to have to do is bring gank DPS.
Let's imagine for a moment, there's a game called "Rock, Paper, Siccors (roshambo or whatever). Rock beats siccors, paper beats rock, siccors beats paper. The idea is, u and ur opponent shake ur fists 3 times in unison. On the third shake u hand gesture ur attack... But here's the catch, YOU DON'T KNOW what he's gonna do! So you study ur opponent... Get all mental and Jedi like to OUT WITT your opponent! If you keep bringing the Rock, don't ***** cause he keeps bringing the Paper! Helps your odds of winning if you throw in a siccor or two.
If by now you're still wondering what the siccors are in relation to Eve, well, you just flat suck and need to learn to Eve.
BTW, just so you all know RR ships are available on the market to EVERYONE!
Grow a brain, get a clue, stop whining, and learn to Eve.
This thread, definitely NOT Supported!
THIS! ^^Here's your answer... Or are you just ignoring the obvious truth? Don't be lazy, this is PvP and as such you put your strategic skills against other LIVE people, not simple NPCs. It's not their fault you don't have that capacity. There are plenty of tools (in Game) to solve Neutral RR... you just can't be bothered to think or plan... well that's your problem. Plus, this being the case, you have more problems in RL I imagine than just this game.  Adapt or Die... Pure and simple.  |
Max Kolonko
Caldari
Worm Nation
Ash Alliance |
Posted - 2011.05.29 08:12:00 - [ 17]
Edited by: Max Kolonko on 29/05/2011 08:12:22 Originally by: Cordo Draken
THIS! ^^
Here's your answer... Or are you just ignoring the obvious truth? Don't be lazy, this is PvP and as such you put your strategic skills against other LIVE people, not simple NPCs. It's not their fault you don't have that capacity. There are plenty of tools (in Game) to solve Neutral RR... you just can't be bothered to think or plan... well that's your problem. Plus, this being the case, you have more problems in RL I imagine than just this game.
Adapt or Die... Pure and simple.
Even thou i think remote repping needs a little agression flagging tweek, can't agree more with above statement. If you are not prepared to meet remote reppers, dont be startled when they show up and squize some tears from your pure DPS fleet setups. |
Swynet
State War Academy
|
Posted - 2011.05.29 18:08:00 - [ 18]
Eve's about consequences for the choices you make right?
You decide to rep someone you must assume the consequences, point blank. |
Max Kolonko
Caldari
Worm Nation
Ash Alliance |
Posted - 2011.05.29 19:55:00 - [ 19]
Originally by: Swynet
Eve's about consequences for the choices you make right?
You decide to rep someone you must assume the consequences, point blank.
but you do, you get agression toward people that atack the ship you are repping. |
Cordo Draken
ABOS Industrial Enterprises |
Posted - 2011.05.29 23:39:00 - [ 20]
Originally by: Max Kolonko
Originally by: Swynet
Eve's about consequences for the choices you make right?
You decide to rep someone you must assume the consequences, point blank.
but you do, you get agression toward people that atack the ship you are repping.
Yup, the consequences are already in place. RR can be attacked by the opposing force. Now it's up to the opposing force to deal with them. Problem is... as per this whine thread (yet again), most people lack the tactical gumption to perform any such appropriate action to deal with it. Again, not my problem. You whine because you fail to think. And you publicly post this so now everyone knows... how humiliating for you. |
Danika Princip
Minmatar
Tactical Narcotics Team |
Posted - 2011.05.30 13:23:00 - [ 21]
If you end up in a fair fight, you've done something very, very wrong somewhere along the line. |
Mal Mandrake
Minmatar |
Posted - 2011.06.01 03:52:00 - [ 22]
Sorry if I'm out of the loop but let me get this straight.
If I am fighting a guy and a neutral character reps, the repper goes red and I can shoot?
As long as I can shoot the healer then I am good and don't support this thread.
I thought the problem was that the neutral repper would stay neutral and be unable to be attacked legally?
-Mal |
Agetec Core
Sudden Buggery |
Posted - 2011.06.01 08:48:00 - [ 23]
I agree its a problem but I personally do not have a good idea to fix it and this idea is insane. I've thought about this so much it makes my head hurt and I'm not sure theres a better way to make it then it is now. The first idea that crossed my mind that also has obvious issues is to modify this idea to instead of only corp/alliances can rep each other make it so it only applies when part of a war. The first response to this that comes to mind is hey what if someone dec's me and I dont even want to be in the war. Now I can't be repped in a multitude of situations that nerf many other forms of play other than the wardec and fighting in highsec. So first idea I came up with.. epic fail.
Hopefully this is a bit more helpful than "omfg u suck for saying RR is not teh win always and stop trying to stop me from using an unattackable until used ship"
There is definately a big problem with how it works but you should probably make sure your situation makes sense and does not nerf other parts of the game before posting to the boards with it. A really good fix that would actually work would only receive negative critasim in the form of "omg u suck" because it would be from people that use questionable tactics. I see plenty of legitamite gripes with what this would do to the game and I can think of at least a handful myself. To sum it up... back to the drawing board. I cant support this idea as it is currently written. |
Cordo Draken
ABOS Industrial Enterprises |
Posted - 2011.06.01 16:40:00 - [ 24]
Originally by: Mal Mandrake
Sorry if I'm out of the loop but let me get this straight.
If I am fighting a guy and a neutral character reps, the repper goes red and I can shoot?
As long as I can shoot the healer then I am good and don't support this thread.
I thought the problem was that the neutral repper would stay neutral and be unable to be attacked legally?
-Mal
You are correct in that the moment a neutral RRr starts repping your opposing force, he becomes red flashy and you can attack him. The gripe that some have, is A) Obviously you can't tell who is a neutral RR toon in system unless u faced them before, B) They can sit on your face if they want, if they haven't yet aided your opposition and there's not much u can do about it, C) RRing Anyone does Not give you a 60 sec aggression counter, thus they can dock or jump gate immediately (because they are not attacking anyone); D) at the end of their RRing, they only get a 15 min aggression flag to the corp or person they aided against. RR is a force multiplier, much like ECM. They are aids to those that don't have pure numbers and quite frankly, are neccessary as optional tactics to keep from a stagnant game of "greatest blob wins" mentality. Of course, some people strictly view numbers as the Trump tactic that should "Always win." They stomp their feet and throw a tantrum because a mixed force of 6 spanked a pure DPS force of 15 because the smaller force was smart enough to bring the right equipment. History tells us in many cases where superior strategy and execution defeats greater numbers. I've been on both sides of this battle... After getting my butt handed to me by a smarter force, I learned quickly how to both employ and counter these tactics. I became a smarter pilot. No force is impervious... You just need the right tools, a good plan and disciplined execution.  |
Mal Mandrake
Minmatar |
Posted - 2011.06.01 22:11:00 - [ 25]
Originally by: Cordo Draken
You are correct in that the moment a neutral RRr starts repping your opposing force, he becomes red flashy and you can attack him.
The gripe that some have, is RRing Anyone does Not give you a 60 sec aggression counter, thus they can dock or jump gate immediately (because they are not attacking anyone);
In this case I would support making it so that RReppers could not dock or jump gate until a cooldown period is complete. Otherwise this is just like bringing friends to a street fight. It might be a bit underhanded... but it certainly doesn't need to be eliminated. This is really the same thing as an ambush scenario in real life. You never know what river boat will have bad intentions, (Remember the U.S.S Cole). I support realistic tactics in Eve. -Mal |
Tuvar Hiede
Caldari
Quovis |
Posted - 2011.06.02 06:01:00 - [ 26]
Neutral RRing is an old topic, the only way to correct this truely is to give them the same GCC as the ship in combat they are repping. Makes the game much more playable because until then they can just dock and undock at leisure. I'm not against neutral RR's, I'm against no combat timer for ANY RR'er repping a ship thats flagged. |
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