| Author |
Topic |
Hekira Soikutsu |
Posted - 2011.05.19 16:03:00 - [ 1]
Edited by: Hekira Soikutsu on 19/05/2011 18:28:29
Edited by: Hekira Soikutsu on 19/05/2011 16:14:08
Yes loads of cloaking threads already. Hopefully this will be a compromise for the afk cloaker haters and cloaky pilots. This post has some ideas taken from other threads to kudos to where it is due.
Non-Covert Ops Cloaks
- For anything other than a Black Ops battleship impose more penalties to the ship equipped with them. Decrease scan resolution, increase sig radius and reduce targeting range by a factor of 4 when not activated and prevent capacitor regeneration while cloaked. Remove scan res penalty on the module and no capacitor penalty to Black Ops BS (semi-ninja Blops buff!!). No cycle timer.
Covert-Ops Cloaks
- Introduce a cycle timer on the cloak and introduce no capacitor regeneration penalty while cloaked. Cycle timer may be 5-20 minutes and cloak drains 10% of cap per cycle. If cap runs dry ship decloaks.
For Covert-Ops Cloaks the changes are there to ensure that the pilot is not inactive. At the same time penalties are not severe as to gimp the use of covert-ops ships in pvp. Leaving your ship in space for a short break is fine but leaving it too long will get you blown up. The reasoning for this is that the advantage of having the element of surprise 23.5/7 is much too overpowered is someone is not at the computer. However, even if you are semi-afk doing something else you'll still be there to hear the "capacitor is empty" warning in time to reactivate the cloak. The entire point of this is that cloaks are used more tactically and the presence of a cloaky ship will mean impending pvp activity rather than a perma-neut cloaked up in local. If you want to have the advantage you'll have to be at the computer. Perhaps this will make cloakers even more feared because now you know there is someone at the keyboard. Watching. You.
TL;DR
Changes will not impact people who are:
- Running cloaky tackle
- Gathering intel in a cloaky
- Stealth bomber pilots
- Flying Black Ops battleships (they dont need nerfs)
Changes will impact people who are:
- At work while cloaky alt sits in local
Change aims to:
- Encourage actual pvp (hotdrops, scan-point-boom) rather than cloaking up and doing nothing.
- More use of the Black Ops hulls since these are the only ones that are able to do the afk cloaker thing. |
Mag's
the united
Negative Ten. |
Posted - 2011.05.19 18:57:00 - [ 2]
Only truly affects the active cloaker and promotes the use of macros.
Nothing new suggested and not supported while ever local is the all seeing, 100%, risk free, instant intel tool it is now. |
Hekira Soikutsu |
Posted - 2011.05.19 19:14:00 - [ 3]
 Originally by: Mag's
Only truly affects the active cloaker and promotes the use of macros.
Nothing new suggested and not supported while ever local is the all seeing, 100%, risk free, instant intel tool it is now.
So your solution is to remove local? Unless you know how to program a macro to check dscan, warp around evading angry locals while the capacitor charges up I don't foresee macros being an issue. |
Ophelia Ursus |
Posted - 2011.05.19 19:57:00 - [ 4]
Edited by: Ophelia Ursus on 19/05/2011 19:58:49
Odd - you mention compromise in your OP, then propose to make covops cloaks unusable. Which positions, exactly, are you compromising between? |
De'Veldrin
Minmatar
Norse'Storm Battle Group
Intrepid Crossing |
Posted - 2011.05.19 20:18:00 - [ 5]
There is no compromise required between the two camps.
Cloaking works just fine the way it is. It's local that causes the issue, so remove that. |
t'raq mardon |
Posted - 2011.05.19 21:27:00 - [ 6]
Hekira:
The six people who troll the threads in this forum are not interested in compromise. They want nothing to change, except what they think needs changed. Even when you say you agree that what they want to change should be done along side your idea they will still disagree. They want things to go their way and only their way. |
Danika Princip
Minmatar
Tactical Narcotics Team |
Posted - 2011.05.19 21:31:00 - [ 7]
Originally by: t'raq mardon
Hekira:
The six people who troll the threads in this forum are not interested in compromise. They want nothing to change, except what they think needs changed. Even when you say you agree that what they want to change should be done along side your idea they will still disagree. They want things to go their way and only their way.
Don't listen to this guy, he's either a botter or an idiot who has never left highsec. Personally, I suspect the latter. Anyway, yeah. Cloaking is working as intended. |
Baaldor
Black Sail Anarchists
Yarr Collective |
Posted - 2011.05.19 21:46:00 - [ 8]
Originally by: t'raq mardon
Hekira:
The six people who troll the threads in this forum are not interested in compromise. They want nothing to change, except what they think needs changed. Even when you say you agree that what they want to change should be done along side your idea they will still disagree. They want things to go their way and only their way.
Challenging **** poor ideas is considered tolling. C/D? |
Eladaris
Amarr
Excessum Industries |
Posted - 2011.05.19 23:08:00 - [ 9]
If this is a compromise... I highly recommend a future in Politics in the United States. I believe either the Democrat or Republic party has need of your viewpoints on compromise. |
Hekira Soikutsu |
Posted - 2011.05.20 00:05:00 - [ 10]
Originally by: Ophelia Ursus
Edited by: Ophelia Ursus on 19/05/2011 19:58:49
Odd - you mention compromise in your OP, then propose to make covops cloaks unusable. Which positions, exactly, are you compromising between?
These changes make the use of covert ops cloaks for sitting afk in local useless. For everything else there is no change. Unless you are saying that covert ops cloaks are for sitting afk 23.5/7 then there is no issue with them. The compromise is to hopefully satisfy those who complain about afk cloaking and those who use cloaks in pvp. |
Hekira Soikutsu |
Posted - 2011.05.20 00:11:00 - [ 11]
Edited by: Hekira Soikutsu on 20/05/2011 00:15:09Edited by: Hekira Soikutsu on 20/05/2011 00:14:32 Originally by: De'Veldrin
There is no compromise required between the two camps.
Cloaking works just fine the way it is. It's local that causes the issue, so remove that.
Local isn't going to disappear from k-space any time soon. Part of the reason why not everyone lives in whs is the added security local brings. Cloaking is really fine as it is. All this will do is make it harder for people to use afk cloaking and actually participate in hostile action instead rather than be afk. Originally by: Eladaris
If this is a compromise... I highly recommend a future in Politics in the United States. I believe either the Democrat or Republic party has need of your viewpoints on compromise.
This can mean I'm going to be a badass politician or this is really a terrible idea. I'm guessing the latter. How so? |
Mara Rinn |
Posted - 2011.05.20 00:24:00 - [ 12]
Originally by: Hekira Soikutsu
Covert-Ops Cloaks
- Introduce a cycle timer on the cloak and introduce no capacitor regeneration penalty while cloaked. Cycle timer may be 5-20 minutes and cloak drains 10% of cap per cycle. If cap runs dry ship decloaks.
…
Changes will not impact people who are:
- Gathering intel in a cloaky
How do I gather intel in a cloaky ship when I am forced to decloak every 50 minutes to 3 hours? Gathering intel means I'm sitting near some structure of importance (gate, station, POS, etc) watching. Just watching. Not moving, not constantly frobbing my cloak. Just sitting there with the cloak on, watching ships come and go for hours on end. Also, how do I reactivate the cloak when the capacitor is empty? |
Gabriel Kaile |
Posted - 2011.05.20 01:52:00 - [ 13]
Originally by: Mara Rinn
Originally by: Hekira Soikutsu
Covert-Ops Cloaks
- Introduce a cycle timer on the cloak and introduce no capacitor regeneration penalty while cloaked. Cycle timer may be 5-20 minutes and cloak drains 10% of cap per cycle. If cap runs dry ship decloaks.
…
Changes will not impact people who are:
- Gathering intel in a cloaky
How do I gather intel in a cloaky ship when I am forced to decloak every 50 minutes to 3 hours?
Gathering intel means I'm sitting near some structure of importance (gate, station, POS, etc) watching. Just watching. Not moving, not constantly frobbing my cloak. Just sitting there with the cloak on, watching ships come and go for hours on end.
Also, how do I reactivate the cloak when the capacitor is empty?
The OP wants you to warp around system (with what capacitor?) until it recharges (by wasting capacitor warping?). All I have to say is: No. |
Mag's
the united
Negative Ten. |
Posted - 2011.05.20 08:10:00 - [ 14]
Edited by: Mag''s on 20/05/2011 08:13:57 Originally by: t'raq mardon
Hekira:
The six people who troll the threads in this forum are not interested in compromise. They want nothing to change, except what they think needs changed. Even when you say you agree that what they want to change should be done along side your idea they will still disagree. They want things to go their way and only their way.
It is you that wants change, so it is you that has to justify why that change is needed. You have spammed these forums with 7 or 8 threads about AFK cloaking. Oh I think it's you that wants change your way, but you've yet to prove your point. The fact that you call us trolls, indicates you have no argument.  Originally by: Hekira Soikutsu
Unless you know how to program a macro to check dscan, warp around evading angry locals while the capacitor charges up I don't foresee macros being an issue.
The fact that you cannot see a way of circumventing this idea with a macro, means you've failed to understand the wider implications of such a change. |
t'raq mardon
|
Posted - 2011.05.20 13:55:00 - [ 15]
|
Ya Huei
Imperial Collective |
Posted - 2011.05.20 14:09:00 - [ 16]
Cloaking works fine.
If u want to get rid of those oh so scary AFK cloakers just have CCP remove local, or make it so that cloaked ships don't show up on local anymore once the device has been activated.
real security comes from scouts, combat probes and your directional scanner.
local is just easymode for k-space sissies.
|
t'raq mardon |
Posted - 2011.05.20 15:44:00 - [ 17]
Originally by: Ya Huei
Cloaking works fine.
If u want to get rid of those oh so scary AFK cloakers just have CCP remove local, or make it so that cloaked ships don't show up on local anymore once the device has been activated.
real security comes from scouts, combat probes and your directional scanner.
local is just easymode for k-space sissies.
The point isn't that i want the cloaker to go away, its that he should have to be sitting at his computer actually playing the game. And how do scouts, combat probes and d-scan help with a cloaked ship? They dont, nothing does |
Grath Telkin
Amarr
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion |
Posted - 2011.05.20 17:33:00 - [ 18]
Originally by: t'raq mardon
I believe i have proven my point over and over again, that's why there are now several other players starting to make proposals of their own.
No you haven't, and now your just spamming topics under a new name. |
FlameGlow
Gypsy Band |
Posted - 2011.05.20 18:36:00 - [ 19]
What are you smoking? Why a cloak should have heavier penalties then 2 warpstabs? Also cycle timer on covert cloak means you can't decloak at any time  |
Johnny May |
Posted - 2011.05.20 18:54:00 - [ 20]
EVE as it is is allready giving me too little time to sleep,
please do not introduce a change where i have to wake up every 20 minutes just to get some capacitor on the covert going. |
Borza Slavak
Minmatar
Mirkur Draug'Tyr
Ushra'Khan |
Posted - 2011.05.20 19:30:00 - [ 21]
|
Corina's Bodyguard |
Posted - 2011.05.20 19:43:00 - [ 22]
This is why your idea destroys cov ops cloaking for any purpose other than running away (and especially for intel gathering longer than 4 hours, which I have done on occasion at the computer btw).
Cloak till cap runs out. Ship decloaks. Can't recloak until you have 10% cap (definitely enough time for someone to determine your ship type, which could ruin whatever you were planning), then you get to cloak for 1 cycle, and repeat this for as long as you are willing to waste time because they already know what ship you have and can easily guess what you are up to.
This is a bad idea. As with all "nerf afk cloaking" threads. |
Mag's
the united
Negative Ten. |
Posted - 2011.05.20 19:47:00 - [ 23]
Edited by: Mag''s on 20/05/2011 20:15:06 Originally by: t'raq mardon
I believe i have proven my point over and over again, that's why there are now several other players starting to make proposals of their own.
Belief isn't fact. Alts posting proposals? You must be new to Eve-o forums. Welcome. |
Ya Huei
Imperial Collective |
Posted - 2011.05.20 20:14:00 - [ 24]
Originally by: t'raq mardon
Originally by: Ya Huei
Cloaking works fine.
If u want to get rid of those oh so scary AFK cloakers just have CCP remove local, or make it so that cloaked ships don't show up on local anymore once the device has been activated.
real security comes from scouts, combat probes and your directional scanner.
local is just easymode for k-space sissies.
The point isn't that i want the cloaker to go away, its that he should have to be sitting at his computer actually playing the game.
And how do scouts, combat probes and d-scan help with a cloaked ship? They dont, nothing does
Not with the cloaked ship itself no, but you WILL be able to see the real threat coming in. Buzzards and anathemas by themselves are nothing to be worried about u know.. |
cyno slave1 |
Posted - 2011.05.20 20:51:00 - [ 25]
why not just have the capacitor very slowly run down when cloaked |
Pirokobo
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation |
Posted - 2011.05.20 22:04:00 - [ 26]
Works as intended, perfect defense, perfect detection.
Don't change what isn't broken. |
t'raq mardon |
Posted - 2011.05.23 14:03:00 - [ 27]
|
Lae Down |
Posted - 2011.05.23 15:14:00 - [ 28]
Originally by: t'raq mardon
Covops can warp cloaked and can lock you down before lighting a cyno, a frig is also takes a good bit of time to lock in any larger ship so even if there are several of you ratting together you can be locked down long enough for an enemy gang to jump into system and warp to you no problem. Cloaked ship do pose a real threat, as they should. They can also walk away from the computer for days on end without worrying about losing their ship, which they shouldn't be able to do.
I would like to know how you manage to login after downtime and still stay away from your computer for days. You also know about the locking penealty on cloaked ships after decloaking (excluding bombers) right? |
Bagehi
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises |
Posted - 2011.05.23 16:30:00 - [ 29]
Originally by: Hekira Soikutsu
Originally by: Ophelia Ursus
Edited by: Ophelia Ursus on 19/05/2011 19:58:49
Odd - you mention compromise in your OP, then propose to make covops cloaks unusable. Which positions, exactly, are you compromising between?
These changes make the use of covert ops cloaks for sitting afk in local useless. For everything else there is no change. Unless you are saying that covert ops cloaks are for sitting afk 23.5/7 then there is no issue with them.
The compromise is to hopefully satisfy those who complain about afk cloaking and those who use cloaks in pvp.
These changes also prevent bomber gate camps. You sit cloaked for quite a while there too and only uncloak on tasty targets. I'm still baffled why anyone who isn't botting would have a problem with someone sitting cloaked 24/7 in their system. They aren't doing anything. Why worry about it? |
Borza Slavak
Minmatar
Mirkur Draug'Tyr
Ushra'Khan |
Posted - 2011.05.23 16:33:00 - [ 30]
Please define the term "afk" in this context. |
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