| Author |
Topic |
Cyberus
Caldari
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation |
Posted - 2011.05.19 10:59:00 - [ 1]
Edited by: Cyberus on 19/05/2011 11:01:12
Its have been awhile since this module has been introduced and did not looked at anymore, if it has positive effect as it is at this moment.
Time activation of this module is nothing more then unneed time sink and experianced as huge abuse of unnessesery mechanic.
The module can be tweaked without loosing its tactical decision ( as some fellow pilots call ) and invest won time from it for better purpose to make this game better.
The tweaks for the module will be:
1) Reduce base time activation from 10 minets to 2.
2) Redusing fuel activation by 5 the keep fuel use as it is if there longer presence of field needet.
3) On the map overlay ( f10 ) keep filtered information for cynofield's as it is now for 10 minets, so pilots have same "tactical advantage" to see if there any capital movements around.
4) Specialized ships will reman with they bonuses.
5) Make EVE a better place to be in and use our ivested time for better things to do then just useless time sink.
P.S.
To fellow pilots. If you agree that this module must be looked at please support, if you not.... try to be constructive and reply with good argument why it will be not good idea to do so.
|
Helen
White Noise. |
Posted - 2011.05.19 11:06:00 - [ 2]
It's also really useful to have 10min activation times when hauling **** around the place.
If you want shorter cynos use a recon ship if you want to suggest something cheaper than a recon for cynos then it might be a case of maybe looking at changing EAS to have a recon cyno ability too.
Changing a module that has been in game so longer without major complaint is kinda silly and unlikely to happen as no CCP Dev has said remotely anything about cynosaural generators. |
Cyberus
Caldari
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation |
Posted - 2011.05.19 11:13:00 - [ 3]
Edited by: Cyberus on 19/05/2011 11:13:53 Originally by: Helen
It's also really useful to have 10min activation times when hauling **** around the place.
If you want shorter cynos use a recon ship if you want to suggest something cheaper than a recon for cynos then it might be a case of maybe looking at changing EAS to have a recon cyno ability too.
Changing a module that has been in game so longer without major complaint is kinda silly and unlikely to happen as no CCP Dev has said remotely anything about cynosaural generators.
I'm sorry but you point is irrelevant since with fuel reduction ( see point 2 ) you will not have any disadvantage. Lets even say that you will do need 6 minets to get the job done, so why you schould to be stay for 4 minets longer ( with no bonused ship ) then its actualy need? once again-->>> Unneed time sink that could be used for better purpose. |
xttz
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation |
Posted - 2011.05.19 11:26:00 - [ 4]
Over the years CCP have made various tweaks to Cynogens that indicate that they want some element of risk + penalty to using them. This includes not being able to use them inside forcefields, preventing use when moving too fast, and disabling eject.
Perhaps a better compromise is to scale Cynogens based on ship class just like weapons. Have new cynogens with higher fitting requirements and fuel use but a shorter duration - meaning you need to risk a more valuable ship to be stuck for less time. |
Swynet
State War Academy
|
Posted - 2011.05.19 11:30:00 - [ 5]
The only problem I see with cyno mechanics is they are mostly done with 15D cyno alts (in low where I live) to dock the pimped pve carrier the guy freshly buys. Makes an easy KM and eventually some fun shooting the desperate carrier (often inexperienced obviously) trying to rep the cyno alt  Now I have no experience with this mechanic and the effect with in 0.0 but I guess they don't open cynos with Velators... |
xttz
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation |
Posted - 2011.05.19 11:47:00 - [ 6]
Originally by: Swynet
The only problem I see with cyno mechanics is they are mostly done with 15D cyno alts (in low where I live) to dock the pimped pve carrier the guy freshly buys.
Makes an easy KM and eventually some fun shooting the desperate carrier (often inexperienced obviously) trying to rep the cyno alt
Now I have no experience with this mechanic and the effect with in 0.0 but I guess they don't open cynos with Velators...
Disposable rookie ship cynos are awesome. Just haul out a bunch of mods and ozone for the cyno alt, and never worry about running out of hulls. |
Miss Rabblt |
Posted - 2011.05.19 11:48:00 - [ 7]
Edited by: Miss Rabblt on 19/05/2011 11:49:03 Originally by: Swynet
The only problem I see with cyno mechanics is they are mostly done with 15D cyno alts (in low where I live) to dock the pimped pve carrier the guy freshly buys.
is 15D == 15 days old? Then you aren't right: cynogen char is done in 4 days to good level. Originally by: Swynet
Makes an easy KM and eventually some fun shooting the desperate carrier (often inexperienced obviously) trying to rep the cyno alt
that's why cynoalts are cheap disposable chars like scouts.  no one will rescue it. Originally by: Swynet
Now I have no experience with this mechanic and the effect with in 0.0 but I guess they don't open cynos with Velators...
and second time you arent' right. [Velator cynogen] hi: Cynosural field generator 1 : <empty> med: micro auxiliary power core 1 low: <empty> tadam! =) |
Cyberus
Caldari
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation |
Posted - 2011.05.19 11:59:00 - [ 8]
Originally by: Swynet
The only problem I see with cyno mechanics is they are mostly done with 15D cyno alts (in low where I live) to dock the pimped pve carrier the guy freshly buys.
Makes an easy KM and eventually some fun shooting the desperate carrier (often inexperienced obviously) trying to rep the cyno alt
Now I have no experience with this mechanic and the effect with in 0.0 but I guess they don't open cynos with Velators...
Did you ever ask the question you self why is so? 1) Because its easyer to have an alt in place the traveling your other character to destenation system 2) Once again... huge unneddet time sink. Almost no one wants to use they other (no matter for what trained )character to sit them for 10 minets watching stupid cyno to run out, while you could do other thigs in same time. Why you think alot of pilots do even ( if they dont have an alt nearby ) suiside cyno? Because its waste of time, that no1 want it. 2 minets time activation is more then enough for hostile party's to react on the becon because in many cases the whole process takes under 1 minet anyway ( 1 minet !!!! ) anything else its just time sink what completely is an abuse! |
Elesaar
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
|
Posted - 2011.05.19 12:48:00 - [ 9]
Edited by: Elesaar on 19/05/2011 12:49:00
They need to fix the glitch where all the graphics go blurry everytime a cyno is on grid |
Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
|
Posted - 2011.05.19 13:03:00 - [ 10]
Introduce a script for cyno gens: Halves time, but octuples fuel requirement (needs juice to force it closed!)
- Gives the ships meant for popping them a huge boost since they already have fuel and time reduction bonuses (Recon@5: 2.5 minutes, 400LO used .. I'd totally hit that!)
- Prevents the use of cheap-ass frigs if time is critical (going to see a lot more haulers popping cynos though but 'meh'). |
Swynet
State War Academy
|
Posted - 2011.05.19 13:13:00 - [ 11]
Originally by: Miss Rabblt
and second time you arent' right.
[Velator cynogen]
hi: Cynosural field generator 1
: <empty>
med: micro auxiliary power core 1
low: <empty>
tadam! =)
Wasn't really what I was thinking, it's pretty obvious every small frig does the job for cheap loss. Silly question... What about this kind of situation where your recon points the [stuff] and opens hot drop cyno? -isn't what they are supposed to do? Like Black Ops. I mean do you guys really send rookie cyno alts across the systems for fleet battles? Because if this is the case than there's something wrong from my point of view, not with the time completion delay but the skill and fitting requirements. [/silly question] |
Cyberus
Caldari
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation |
Posted - 2011.05.19 13:32:00 - [ 12]
Originally by: Swynet
Originally by: Miss Rabblt
and second time you arent' right.
[Velator cynogen]
hi: Cynosural field generator 1
: <empty>
med: micro auxiliary power core 1
low: <empty>
tadam! =)
Wasn't really what I was thinking, it's pretty obvious every small frig does the job for cheap loss.
Silly question...
What about this kind of situation where your recon points the [stuff] and opens hot drop cyno? -isn't what they are supposed to do?
Like Black Ops. I mean do you guys really send rookie cyno alts across the systems for fleet battles?
Because if this is the case than there's something wrong from my point of view, not with the time completion delay but the skill and fitting requirements.
[/silly question]
No for that kind of situations mostly used force recon ships, but even then forcing the stay this ship for long then 1 minet (fully trained to lvl5 if the change will find place ) is still risonable amount of time to kill the cyno ship ( in hot drop situations), but it realy does not matter because the harm is already done. As i have mentioned above the deployment operation find place just after the cyno is ligth up since are the capitals ships are always stand by for the cyno anyway. |
Abdiel Kavash
Caldari
Paladin Order
Fidelas Constans |
Posted - 2011.05.19 14:16:00 - [ 13]
Originally by: Miss Rabblt
[Velator cynogen]
hi: Cynosural field generator 1
: <empty>
med: micro auxiliary power core 1
low: <empty>
tadam! =)
WTB a MAPC that goes into mids  Besides that, yeah, 99% of cynos is done in disposable ships. Want a short cyno? Light it, jump the caps, selfdestruct cyno ship. Want even shorter cyno? Start selfdestruct and light it a few seconds before it blows up. |
Cyberus
Caldari
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation |
Posted - 2011.05.19 14:24:00 - [ 14]
Originally by: Abdiel Kavash
Originally by: Miss Rabblt
[Velator cynogen]
hi: Cynosural field generator 1
: <empty>
med: micro auxiliary power core 1
low: <empty>
tadam! =)
WTB a MAPC that goes into mids
Besides that, yeah, 99% of cynos is done in disposable ships. Want a short cyno? Light it, jump the caps, selfdestruct cyno ship. Want even shorter cyno? Start selfdestruct and light it a few seconds before it blows up.
If you read above i have already mentioned that. The point is... it is not the game mechanic and who knows meaby will be even changed by CCP soon since it was brougt to the forums. The realy question is still remains: Why they actualy do that suiside cyno? The answere is simple.... NO ONE wants to sit there for 10 minets. |
Swynet
State War Academy
|
Posted - 2011.05.19 14:38:00 - [ 15]
Originally by: Abdiel Kavash
Want a short cyno? Light it, jump the caps, selfdestruct cyno ship. Want even shorter cyno? Start selfdestruct and light it a few seconds before it blows up.
NOES !! And my easy kill mail ?  |
Hekira Soikutsu |
Posted - 2011.05.19 15:33:00 - [ 16]
1) Firstly, long cycle times have their benefits. My corp sometimes runs ops with caps and we have a habit of keeping a cyno up just incase the **** hits the fan. Not that we couldn't get a cyno lit if trouble shows up its just one less thing that can go wrong if we keep it up.
Second, you can simply log the cyno alt off. Ship disappears when cyno does. If the alt you are using is fully disposable whats stopping you?
Lastly, Eve Online is one big time sink. Think about it.
2) Moving capital ships should be expensive. Unlike the fuel used by the ship making the jump, the cost to light a cyno had a fixed cost only reduced by skills. Its a way to make moving capitals less non-trivial. (Its really not that expensive tbh)
3) No comment
4) Sure
5) As i said above, Eve is a timesink. |
Miss Rabblt |
Posted - 2011.05.19 15:56:00 - [ 17]
Originally by: Swynet
And my easy kill mail ?
your KB will really look better with noob-cyno ship kill? my apologises...... |
Cyberus
Caldari
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation |
Posted - 2011.05.19 21:26:00 - [ 18]
Edited by: Cyberus on 19/05/2011 21:29:02 Originally by: Hekira Soikutsu
1) Firstly, long cycle times have their benefits. My corp sometimes runs ops with caps and we have a habit of keeping a cyno up just incase the **** hits the fan. Not that we couldn't get a cyno lit if trouble shows up its just one less thing that can go wrong if we keep it up.
Tbh i have fealing that you not realy read the original post. If you read it once again you will see that nothing prevents you to keep up your cyno so long as the fuel last. If you want keep up 10 menets, fine just do it, it will cost you exact same amount ozone as the cynogen consume rigth now. So basicly you will the do 5 cycles insted of 1. Quote:
Second, you can simply log the cyno alt off. Ship disappears when cyno does. If the alt you are using is fully disposable whats stopping you?
It is not about to log off cyno alt but about there is no need keep the generated cyno ship at grid since it does not serve any purpose anymore. Quote:
Lastly, Eve Online is one big time sink. Think about it.
Yes EVE Online is one big time sink. It is designed with one main idea around it to have ppl to interact with eachother in PVP. So every ( even if it 10 minets) of useless time sink in this game reduce my time ( and fellof pilots of universe ) to interact with other players since me ( or someone else ) stuck on pointless feauture/game mechanics that prevent me to use this time for better purpose ( time sink ). For example to blow up your ship or be blowed up by you in that 10 minets. Lots of thigs happance in that period of time. Quote:
Moving capital ships should be expensive. Unlike the fuel used by the ship making the jump, the cost to light a cyno had a fixed cost only reduced by skills. Its a way to make moving capitals less non-trivial. (Its really not that expensive tbh)
This made me lol simply because of the idea that you think that light up the cyno makes move capital ship expencive. Sireusly dude? Quote:
As i said above, Eve is a timesink.
Yes .... again. It is time sink. The time sink that we paid for to interact with eachother. In this scenario curent cyno take it out my value time to spend sinking my time in the interaction with others. There is simply no need in this at all. There is no great benefit from keeping that module for so long cycle time if there is no nessesery for that. All in all. You clearly miss the point of entire purpose. I'm rigth because this have been brougth before on forums, lots of players seen that as pointless time sink, why you think lot of players avoid the mechanic by deploing suicide cyno's? No one care about the cost of cyno fuel or even cynogenerator module its self, simply because it useless waste of time. Anyone knows that in exact same amout of time they could generate more isk the whole cyno ship/mod did cost by rating and or blowing up someone else ship and looting it. Pointless time sink that DONT make this game any better. |
Othran
Brutor Tribe
|
Posted - 2011.05.20 13:56:00 - [ 19]
Edited by: Othran on 20/05/2011 14:09:03
Edited by: Othran on 20/05/2011 14:02:54
Edited by: Othran on 20/05/2011 14:00:45
Oh for gods sakes this has to be trolling surely?
1) Light cyno with alt in cheap crappy frigate;
2) Ship(s) jump in;
3) Logoff cyno alt.
4) Logon (semi)main.
How hard is that?
Want fast cynos then you DO know the options, don't try and tell me you don't.
Edit - just to make it CRYSTAL CLEAR, if the cyno ship gets popped when you've logged then the pod emergency warps anyway, so no timesink.
Edit2 - in fact if you watch someone doing the above you will see them warp off but the ship remains for the cyno period.
Edit3 - and if your standard practice is to jump in to main/main alt characters cynos then....mmmm
tl;dr doesn't need fixing, this will be a recurring theme after JB "nerfs" |
Cyberus
Caldari
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation |
Posted - 2011.05.20 23:09:00 - [ 20]
Edited by: Cyberus on 20/05/2011 23:11:54Edited by: Cyberus on 20/05/2011 23:10:48 Originally by: Othran
Edited by: Othran on 20/05/2011 14:09:03
Edited by: Othran on 20/05/2011 14:02:54
Edited by: Othran on 20/05/2011 14:00:45
Oh for gods sakes this has to be trolling surely?
1) Light cyno with alt in cheap crappy frigate;
2) Ship(s) jump in;
3) Logoff cyno alt.
4) Logon (semi)main.
How hard is that?
Want fast cynos then you DO know the options, don't try and tell me you don't.
Yes.. i know the options so i dont need your PRO advise. Still anything what you say does not change that its useless timesink. Quote:
Edit - just to make it CRYSTAL CLEAR, if the cyno ship gets popped when you've logged then the pod emergency warps anyway, so no timesink.
Thats only work in system with station where you have alredy did stock up bunch of cyno ships. You defenetly dont do that on mid jump point where you cyno alt has to travel about 10 jumps to get new cyno ship and then be glad that it returns in 1 piece at same spot. Thats why in that case you carry reserve cyno ship with you and have to stick around till cyno alt done or you suiside him self. So far i know this is not ment by game mechanics and it will be probably changed by CCP soonTM. Quote:
Edit2 - in fact if you watch someone doing the above you will see them warp off but the ship remains for the cyno period.
Edit3 - and if your standard practice is to jump in to main/main alt characters cynos then....mmmm
This still do not state that it is unneed time sink, doesn't it? Quote:
tl;dr doesn't need fixing, this will be a recurring theme after JB "nerfs"
No it not need to be fixed since its not broken, what it need is tweking, looked at if it realy nesesery time sink. After long period of time since cyno introduced no one want it be spiked for 10 minets in same grid doing nothing, thats one of the rison why we all use alts for this purpose, if there is no option to use one and must be used main or semi/main we simply getting cheap crappy ship and suiside just before lighting up the cyno. We do that because we dont want this time sink. |
Justin Cody
Caldari
T.A.L.O.N. Company
B4D W01F |
Posted - 2011.05.21 09:01:00 - [ 21]
Originally by: Cyberus
Edited by: Cyberus on 19/05/2011 11:01:12
Its have been awhile since this module has been introduced and did not looked at anymore, if it has positive effect as it is at this moment.
Time activation of this module is nothing more then unneed time sink and experianced as huge abuse of unnessesery mechanic.
The module can be tweaked without loosing its tactical decision ( as some fellow pilots call ) and invest won time from it for better purpose to make this game better.
The tweaks for the module will be:
1) Reduce base time activation from 10 minets to 2.
2) Redusing fuel activation by 5 the keep fuel use as it is if there longer presence of field needet.
3) On the map overlay ( f10 ) keep filtered information for cynofield's as it is now for 10 minets, so pilots have same "tactical advantage" to see if there any capital movements around.
4) Specialized ships will reman with they bonuses.
5) Make EVE a better place to be in and use our ivested time for better things to do then just useless time sink.
P.S.
To fellow pilots. If you agree that this module must be looked at please support, if you not.... try to be constructive and reply with good argument why it will be not good idea to do so.
Let me go point by point: 1) Fly a recon (reduced to 5 minutes - so yer good) 2) Fly a recon (vastly reduced fuel consumption) 3) Irrelevent as the map updates every 15 minutes as it is...go camp a cyno beacon in stealth bombers. 4) Their bonuses are the reason to fly them...don't pimp out a t1 module to suit your own needs snowflake. 5) Fly a recon; the time sink exists as a penalty and can also be an advantage in laying a trap. Yes my answers come down to: Fly a recon and quit moaning. |
Cyberus
Caldari
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation |
Posted - 2011.05.21 11:01:00 - [ 22]
Originally by: Justin Cody
Originally by: Cyberus
Edited by: Cyberus on 19/05/2011 11:01:12
things...
I wont invest much time in you but just this:
Quote:
1) Fly a recon (reduced to 5 minutes - so yer good)
2) Fly a recon (vastly reduced fuel consumption)
Congratulation!!! You can actualy read ship information on tha market tab.
Quote:
4) Their bonuses are the reason to fly them...don't pimp out a t1 module to suit your own needs snowflake.
Why you other fly recons? Not to suit you needs? Still irrelevant point that not dictate that activation of cynogen is unneed time sink.
Quote:
5) Fly a recon; the time sink exists as a penalty and can also be an advantage in laying a trap.
Realy? According to lots of other pilots this penalty lost it advantage long ago and i completely agree with them.
and Finaly this:
Quote:
3) Irrelevent as the map updates every 15 minutes as it is...go camp a cyno beacon in stealth bombers.
This points that you have clearly no idea what is this all about, i dont even ask you read again this topic because you seems more like an trol to me.
|
Templar Dane
Amarr
Amarrian Retribution
|
Posted - 2011.05.21 21:19:00 - [ 23]
Originally by: Cyberus
Edited by: Cyberus on 19/05/2011 11:01:12
Its have been awhile since this module has been introduced and did not looked at anymore, if it has positive effect as it is at this moment.
Time activation of this module is nothing more then unneed time sink and experianced as huge abuse of unnessesery mechanic.
The module can be tweaked without loosing its tactical decision ( as some fellow pilots call ) and invest won time from it for better purpose to make this game better.
The tweaks for the module will be:
1) Reduce base time activation from 10 minets to 2.
2) Redusing fuel activation by 5 the keep fuel use as it is if there longer presence of field needet.
3) On the map overlay ( f10 ) keep filtered information for cynofield's as it is now for 10 minets, so pilots have same "tactical advantage" to see if there any capital movements around.
4) Specialized ships will reman with they bonuses.
5) Make EVE a better place to be in and use our ivested time for better things to do then just useless time sink.
P.S.
To fellow pilots. If you agree that this module must be looked at please support, if you not.... try to be constructive and reply with good argument why it will be not good idea to do so.
TL;DR: Wahhhhh, I hate my alt being useless for 10 minutes when I use it to light a cyno for me. Please change the game mechanics to suit me. I totally don't understand why there should be any risk to the cyno ship. |
Cyberus
Caldari
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation |
Posted - 2011.05.22 13:14:00 - [ 24]
Originally by: Templar Dane
Originally by: Cyberus
Edited by: Cyberus on 19/05/2011 11:01:12
Its have been awhile since this module has been introduced and did not looked at anymore, if it has positive effect as it is at this moment.
Time activation of this module is nothing more then unneed time sink and experianced as huge abuse of unnessesery mechanic.
The module can be tweaked without loosing its tactical decision ( as some fellow pilots call ) and invest won time from it for better purpose to make this game better.
The tweaks for the module will be:
1) Reduce base time activation from 10 minets to 2.
2) Redusing fuel activation by 5 the keep fuel use as it is if there longer presence of field needet.
3) On the map overlay ( f10 ) keep filtered information for cynofield's as it is now for 10 minets, so pilots have same "tactical advantage" to see if there any capital movements around.
4) Specialized ships will reman with they bonuses.
5) Make EVE a better place to be in and use our ivested time for better things to do then just useless time sink.
P.S.
To fellow pilots. If you agree that this module must be looked at please support, if you not.... try to be constructive and reply with good argument why it will be not good idea to do so.
TL;DR: Wahhhhh, I hate my alt being useless for 10 minutes when I use it to light a cyno for me. Please change the game mechanics to suit me. I totally don't understand why there should be any risk to the cyno ship.
CAOD that way ----> |
TheSpamMan Doshu
Blue Waffles
|
Posted - 2011.05.27 12:17:00 - [ 25]
Cyberus why are you tolling the fourms again!? |
Diomidis
Pod Liberation Authority |
Posted - 2011.05.27 17:08:00 - [ 26]
Jump drives have lots of pros - even if JBs won't like em anymore...
As mentioned above, you have to "give" in order to receive - and sometimes this has to be more than ISK, with supercaps being already too powerful.
I would go along with your suggestions, should cyno-mules weren't cheap, disposable and easy to have in multiple systems, with most capital pilots doing regular jumps having an extensive network. Add the now-gone JBs for the major alliances and the cyno-gens etc, and it's already too much and too easy, especially when multiple ships can coordinate using the same cyno-mule...
Should they push it forward that direction, I would love to see only cov-ops and recons being able to do cynos...how about that? Cause listening to complains about having to wait less or lose a 1-2M ship while you (the average capital pilot) are moving billions around, is...well, worse than waiting for the cyno to go down... |
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