| Author |
Topic |
Naynomi |
Posted - 2011.05.19 04:34:00 - [ 61]
 Originally by: Amaroq Dricaldari
Originally by: BondGamer
Originally by: Annasys
Again, AFK cloakers are NO THREAT WHATSOEVER. I do hope you understand what AFK means.
Don't listen to this guy. AFK cloaking ruins alliances. Just don't do it.
What if they have bots? Or Aggressive Combat Drones and FoF Missile Launchers set to activate whenever they are attacked throught the use of botting? Not to mention that you can also scan them down so that you can destroy and loot them.
Can you try again? This time in English, please. |
Amaroq Dricaldari
Amarr
Vengeance Industrial Militia
|
Posted - 2011.05.19 04:39:00 - [ 62]
Originally by: Naynomi
Originally by: Amaroq Dricaldari
Originally by: BondGamer
Originally by: Annasys
Again, AFK cloakers are NO THREAT WHATSOEVER. I do hope you understand what AFK means.
Don't listen to this guy. AFK cloaking ruins alliances. Just don't do it.
What if they have bots? Or Aggressive Combat Drones and FoF Missile Launchers set to activate whenever they are attacked throught the use of botting? Not to mention that you can also scan them down so that you can destroy and loot them.
Can you try again?
This time in English, please.
People who are afk sometimes use bots. And those bots can be used for a variety of things. AFK Mining, AFK Ratting, AFK Couriering, Self Defence, Gate Camping, etc. And once again, some people scan down AFK people to kill them and loot the wrecks, or because they are at war. These include AFK Cloakers. And of course, another reason for scanning down an AFK person is to make it easier to redeavous with them. |
t'raq mardon |
Posted - 2011.05.19 06:16:00 - [ 63]
Also, cloaked ships can NOT currently be scanned down.
Annasys:
You are correct, i have no problem with players actively sitting in a system in order to disrupt it. The issue is that they can then go afk for as long as they wish and return at any point, allowing them to "pretend" to be afk for weeks on end and then suddenly become active only at a moment when they are sure of victory. There shouldn't be a need to prove they are afk. There should simply be a way to kill them whether they are AFK or just plain stupid. Being cloaked is the ONLY way in this entire game that you can be completely assured of safety while in space.
Keep accusing me of being a botter, its not making it any more true. |
Fullmetal Jackass |
Posted - 2011.05.19 07:16:00 - [ 64]
This thread makes me laugh. Why are we seriously talking about shooting people out into space from a station?
Risk vs reward is way off on cloaks though. Very little risk, with very little draw back to using them. It's absolutely awesome for alts. |
Robert Caldera |
Posted - 2011.05.19 09:17:00 - [ 65]
Edited by: Robert Caldera on 19/05/2011 09:18:01 Originally by: t'raq mardon
just keep people from being able to cloak and then walk away from their computer
whats wrong with this? |
Mag's
the united
Negative Ten. |
Posted - 2011.05.19 09:57:00 - [ 66]
Originally by: t'raq mardon
Annasys:
You are correct, i have no problem with players actively sitting in a system in order to disrupt it.
So you admit you're assuming they are AFK? Originally by: t'raq mardon
The issue is that they can then go afk for as long as they wish and return at any point, allowing them to "pretend" to be afk for weeks on end and then suddenly become active only at a moment when they are sure of victory. There shouldn't be a need to prove they are afk. There should simply be a way to kill them whether they are AFK or just plain stupid. Being cloaked is the ONLY way in this entire game that you can be completely assured of safety while in space.
Keep accusing me of being a botter, its not making it any more true.
The trouble is, you are relying upon local way too much, to give you intel. AFK cloaking subverts local and makes it somewhat unreliable. You need to look for a replacement package for local and then maybe cloaking could be reassessed. |
Robert Caldera |
Posted - 2011.05.19 10:04:00 - [ 67]
in eve a local free of neuts/hostiles is a luxury, many renter pets in deep ass 0.0 got used to. Despite of that, you cant claim that luxury by game mechanics ffs |
Mag's
the united
Negative Ten. |
Posted - 2011.05.19 10:17:00 - [ 68]
Robert I actually like the status quo, have said so many times.
My point is he's not seeing the full picture. He's relying upon local way too much as an instant intel tool. The AFK pilots are trying to remove the instant part from the equation, to subvert it's use.
But you are correct, many just get on with it and continue playing the game. Seems some don't have the mental wherewithal to cope and just spam whining threads. |
Rek Seven
Gallente
Zandathorn Industries |
Posted - 2011.05.19 10:43:00 - [ 69]
AFK cloaking can be annoying but i have yet to see a fair solution/compromise to this issue.
You always have to option of baiting and killing the guys. If one guy is creating such a problem for you, then perhaps you should consider moving to high sec space... |
Eihnlazer |
Posted - 2011.05.19 11:01:00 - [ 70]
Personally, im fine with it as it is, but if they were to change somthing, i'd say make it so that when you cloak you can still be Physically seen in space, assuming someone was close enough to see you.
In other words, you wouldn't be on overview and couldnt be scanned, but you could still be clicked on if someone saw you.
Would do alot to quieting down people like the OP without hurting cloaking much. |
Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
|
Posted - 2011.05.19 12:29:00 - [ 71]
Whether a cloaking pilot is AFK or not is kind of beside the point. Only two aspects of Eve has no counter available; Cloaking and Cyno's/hot-drops. The latter is likely to change within the coming year as part of the great null force projection nerf, which leaves just cloaks (my guess is that is why Greyscale would like some way of finding/tracking them). Originally by: Eihnlazer
Personally....
Actually make all sorts of sense. The easy-to-use "civilian" cloaks providing what amounts to narrow band EM suppression while the specialized military-grade CovOps cloaks provide wide-band suppression (including visible light). Removes the much hated/loved cloak-MWD gimmick which might just make blockade runners worthwhile again. Allows for capitals cloak use as is but with added danger of observant assailant seeing where warp went and start a hunt. |
Mag's
the united
Negative Ten. |
Posted - 2011.05.19 12:51:00 - [ 72]
Edited by: Mag''s on 19/05/2011 12:52:08 Originally by: Hirana Yoshida
Only two aspects of Eve has no counter available;
Cloaking and Cyno's/hot-drops.
The latter is likely to change within the coming year as part of the great null force projection nerf, which leaves just cloaks
Not actually true. Cloaking in itself is it's own counter, for while you are cloaked you cannot do anything, other than move about and scan. The issue most complained about is AFK cloaking, which is a counter to local. Cyno/hot drops also have a counter as far as normal cynos are concerned, if you hold sov. Hot drops from black ops are not that frequent, mostly due to the black ops sucking so much. But I would agree that something along the lines of a delay before you can jump, would help. My suggestion before was a static 1 minute delay built into a cyno, normal ships would not reduce this time, but recons would. By either a 20% per level reduction, or 10 second per level. I'm in favour of the 10 second, as it leaves 10 seconds delay in place. My idea promotes the use of recons, in the role they were intended for. It makes cyno use situational and more tactical than now. |
Rek Seven
Gallente
Zandathorn Industries |
Posted - 2011.05.19 13:16:00 - [ 73]
A cloak that doesn't cloak? Brilliant idea...  |
Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
|
Posted - 2011.05.19 13:28:00 - [ 74]
Originally by: Mag's
Not actually true....
Yes and no  Cloaking would be its own counter if one was blinded and immobile while it lasted, which of course is not the case. That is my only beef with vanilla cloaks actually, that they provide a cheap invulnerable intel gathering platform .. people can bloody well use covops/recons or old-school spying to get intel and not some random ship with a cheap mod -and- Jammers can only be considered a counter to cyno's if cyno's were restricted to sovereign space, which of course they are not (NPC-null and low) .. so 'hah'  Have to admit I am both excited and scared to death to find out what CCP plans to do about capitals/cynos. They have mentioned both delays and distance tweaks as possibilities so I think they are looking at all options .. which is good since it will leave a much larger footprint than the inconsequential sanctum/bridge nerfs that have everyone climbing the walls. |
t'raq mardon |
Posted - 2011.05.19 15:15:00 - [ 75]
Originally by: Mag's
Edited by: Mag''s on 19/05/2011 12:52:08
Originally by: Hirana Yoshida
Only two aspects of Eve has no counter available;
Cloaking and Cyno's/hot-drops.
The latter is likely to change within the coming year as part of the great null force projection nerf, which leaves just cloaks
Not actually true.
Cloaking in itself is it's own counter, for while you are cloaked you cannot do anything, other than move about and scan. The issue most complained about is AFK cloaking, which is a counter to local.
Cyno/hot drops also have a counter as far as normal cynos are concerned, if you hold sov. Hot drops from black ops are not that frequent, mostly due to the black ops sucking so much.
But I would agree that something along the lines of a delay before you can jump, would help.
My suggestion before was a static 1 minute delay built into a cyno, normal ships would not reduce this time, but recons would. By either a 20% per level reduction, or 10 second per level.
I'm in favour of the 10 second, as it leaves 10 seconds delay in place. My idea promotes the use of recons, in the role they were intended for. It makes cyno use situational and more tactical than now.
I agree. That is a good idea for cynos, but does not address the fact that a 1M isk mod makes you completely invulnerable and able to walk away from your computer with no worry of losing your ship while you are floating in 0.0 space. |
Mag's
the united
Negative Ten. |
Posted - 2011.05.19 17:22:00 - [ 76]
Originally by: Hirana Yoshida
Yes and no
Which is why I said ' Not actually true'. Originally by: Hirana Yoshida
Cloaking would be its own counter if one was blinded and immobile while it lasted, which of course is not the case.
It is it's own counter for the reasons I listed. Plus only covert ops cloaks allow warp, but all else except scanning is shut off. That is the counter, if you want to engage you have to decloak. Originally by: Hirana Yoshida
That is my only beef with vanilla cloaks actually, that they provide a cheap invulnerable intel gathering platform .. people can bloody well use covops/recons or old-school spying to get intel and not some random ship with a cheap mod
Not going to comment, as I'm not sure what you mean here. Originally by: Hirana Yoshida
Jammers can only be considered a counter to cyno's if cyno's were restricted to sovereign space, which of course they are not (NPC-null and low) .. so 'hah'
Which is why I said, ' if you hold sov'. But cynos are another matter and being looked at, so 'hah'.  |
Nieusha
Gallente
Life. Universe. Everything.
Clockwork Pineapple |
Posted - 2011.05.19 17:52:00 - [ 77]
Originally by: Annasys
Originally by: t'raq mardon
How about a specific type of probe that can scan down cloaked ship, with a lot of effort of course. Dont want to make it impossible to cloak and avoid detection, just keep people from being able to cloak and then walk away from their computer
How about you stop posting stupid ideas like this because you are too scared to play Eve online.
Here's another suggestion: GO BACK TO HIGH SEC!
|
Amaroq Dricaldari
Amarr
Vengeance Industrial Militia
|
Posted - 2011.05.19 18:38:00 - [ 78]
|
Sepheir Sepheron
Caldari
1st Grave |
Posted - 2011.05.19 18:47:00 - [ 79]
Originally by: Annasys
Originally by: t'raq mardon
How about a specific type of probe that can scan down cloaked ship, with a lot of effort of course. Dont want to make it impossible to cloak and avoid detection, just keep people from being able to cloak and then walk away from their computer
How about you stop posting stupid ideas like this because you are too scared to play Eve online.
Here's another suggestion: GO BACK TO HIGH SEC!
Says the carebear. |
Annasys
Goonswarm Federation |
Posted - 2011.05.19 20:19:00 - [ 80]
|
t'raq mardon |
Posted - 2011.05.20 05:04:00 - [ 81]
i think this thread may have derailed a little bit. The point is that there is a flaw with cloaking that allows players to not be present but gain all the same advantages as if they were. I feel that one solution to this might be a special probe that can scan down cloaked ship in a way that would cause the scanning process to take a very long time (perhaps with very inaccurate probes) which would cause them to only have an affect on players who were either not actually there or who aren't paying attention. Any player who is watching his d-scan would see the probes long before there was a warpable sig (especially with the recent changes to d-scans) and could warp to a different location long before they were found. Further it would encourage the use of cov-ops ships since they would have the ability to stay cloaked while they changed location giving them a distinct advantage over other ships being used in the same role |
Barbara Nichole
Cryogenic Consultancy
Black Sun Alliance |
Posted - 2011.05.20 05:22:00 - [ 82]
Quote:
gain all the same advantages as if they were
just what advantages do you suppose a person away and cloaked is gaining? this is what I have a problem with, you are trying to intimate that somehow you are being hurt here.. or that the AFK person is scamming you somehow.. but in reality it's the cloakers that are not afk that are the threat. Again you should never know they are there in the first place! |
t'raq mardon |
Posted - 2011.05.20 13:40:00 - [ 83]
Originally by: Barbara Nichole
Quote:
gain all the same advantages as if they were
just what advantages do you suppose a person away and cloaked is gaining? this is what I have a problem with, you are trying to intimate that somehow you are being hurt here.. or that the AFK person is scamming you somehow.. but in reality it's the cloakers that are not afk that are the threat. Again you should never know they are there in the first place!
the advantage they are gaining is the ability to slow any non pvp activity in the system by forcing you to always assume they are active because there is no way to know if they are or not. If you want to keep others from earning isk so that they can fight, you should have to be at the computer |
Signal11th |
Posted - 2011.05.20 14:23:00 - [ 84]
Edited by: Signal11th on 20/05/2011 14:29:04
Edited by: Signal11th on 20/05/2011 14:24:33
Why actually does cloaking need a fix?? I think it's doing its job just fine, you cloak nobody can see you...isnt that the point?
Getting really tired of these 0.0 ratters who moan constantly about not being able to rat/run sanctums. FFS how hard is it? put out a bait ship with 2 or 3 pilgrims cloaked up when afk cloaky appears scram to hell and kill him, you get hotdropped woopee thats the game
There are plenty of ways to get rid of an AFK cloaky stop trying to get CCP to nerf everything because you can't be arsed to actually work for your money.
0.0 is supposed to be highly dangerous where anything happens man how many people just want 0.0 to become high-sec, if you dont like risking your little ratting toy move to high-sec and live with all the muppets that inhabit that area.
Rant Over! |
Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
|
Posted - 2011.05.20 15:51:00 - [ 85]
Originally by: BondGamer
AFK cloaking ruins alliances. Just don't do it.
Huh? That sounds like the pre-eminent reason why you should do it.  Originally by: t'raq mardon
Cloaking in an enemy system is a great way to shut down any isk making. Being able to stop others from being able to effectively make isk while you aren't even at the computer is the issue, and in my opinion needs to be fixed.
There is already a solution to that particular problem in the game: choose not to stop. There's no need to ruin a perfectly fine psywar mechanic and the only useful counter to local we have just because people can't think for themselves. |
t'raq mardon |
Posted - 2011.05.22 02:59:00 - [ 86]
Originally by: Signal11th
0.0 is supposed to be highly dangerous where anything happens man how many people just want 0.0 to become high-sec
Rant Over!
Exactly! so why is it that as long as you fit a 1M isk mod to your ship you can sit in enemy territory and be so assured of your safety that you can walk away from your computer for the rest of the day and not even give it a second thought? |
Amaroq Dricaldari
Amarr
Vengeance Industrial Militia
|
Posted - 2011.05.22 08:11:00 - [ 87]
Once again, the reasons to hunt and/or avoid AFK Players:
- They could come back at any time (hunt or avoid)
- They might just be pretending to be afk (avoid)
- You can blow them up and loot the wreck (hunt)
- They are a waretarget (hunt or avoid) |
Mag's
the united
Negative Ten. |
Posted - 2011.05.22 08:42:00 - [ 88]
Edited by: Mag''s on 22/05/2011 09:12:22 Originally by: t'raq mardon
Originally by: Signal11th
0.0 is supposed to be highly dangerous where anything happens man how many people just want 0.0 to become high-sec
Rant Over!
Exactly!
so why is it that as long as you fit a 1M isk mod to your ship you can sit in enemy territory and be so assured of your safety that you can walk away from your computer for the rest of the day and not even give it a second thought?
I see that the subversion of local, works well on you. So while he's away for the rest of the day, both you and he are safe. But the fact that you can see him, breeds fear in your mind. |
t'raq mardon |
Posted - 2011.05.23 13:25:00 - [ 89]
|
Mag's
the united
Negative Ten. |
Posted - 2011.05.23 13:28:00 - [ 90]
Originally by: t'raq mardon
Originally by: Mag's
I see that the subversion of local, works well on you. So while he's away for the rest of the day, both you and he are safe. But the fact that you can see him, breeds fear in your mind.
Dude, if you think local should be removed start your own thread about why. Stop trying to hijack mine. They are two completely different subjects
They are directly related. AFK cloaking would be pointless without local. Local is the reason for it. If you don't like reading opposing factual positions, stop making threads. |
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