| Author |
Topic |
Dr Sheepbringer
Gallente
Halinallen veroparatiisi
Inglorious Carebears |
Posted - 2011.04.04 06:47:00 - [ 31]
Backup: PI stays as it is now and they tweak it a bit to be involved with sov/fw. Done. |
Tentacle Monster
New Eden Trade Union |
Posted - 2011.04.04 06:50:00 - [ 32]
OK let's face it, unless the game is the new Unreal Tournament, it won't have multiplayer past the first 15 months, like most other console FPS. Integrating its gameplay into EVE's will be a short-lived thing. And then CCP will have to maintain an ingame system that only a few hundred players, if that, bother with. They'd have to maintain the online indefinitely, which no company does. And they'll have to assign people to keep it balanced and in tune with EVE. I'm guessing whatever it is, if CCP is smart they'll design it like a lizard's tail that can be detached when it becomes a liability.
Not knocking FPS, I play COD and other games, but that's why I think there are many, many ways for this to go wrong, on its own and for EVE. |
Infinion
Caldari
Awesome Corp
|
Posted - 2011.04.04 07:13:00 - [ 33]
 Originally by: Tentacle Monster
OK let's face it, unless the game is the new Unreal Tournament, it won't have multiplayer past the first 15 months, like most other console FPS. Integrating its gameplay into EVE's will be a short-lived thing. And then CCP will have to maintain an ingame system that only a few hundred players, if that, bother with. They'd have to maintain the online indefinitely, which no company does. And they'll have to assign people to keep it balanced and in tune with EVE. I'm guessing whatever it is, if CCP is smart they'll design it like a lizard's tail that can be detached when it becomes a liability.
Not knocking FPS, I play COD and other games, but that's why I think there are many, many ways for this to go wrong, on its own and for EVE.
I hope it won't require an xbox live subscription along with a dust subscription, or its going to die very quickly |
Ban Doga |
Posted - 2011.04.04 07:36:00 - [ 34]
Originally by: Tentacle Monster
OK let's face it, unless the game is the new Unreal Tournament, it won't have multiplayer past the first 15 months, like most other console FPS. Integrating its gameplay into EVE's will be a short-lived thing. And then CCP will have to maintain an ingame system that only a few hundred players, if that, bother with. They'd have to maintain the online indefinitely, which no company does. And they'll have to assign people to keep it balanced and in tune with EVE. I'm guessing whatever it is, if CCP is smart they'll design it like a lizard's tail that can be detached when it becomes a liability.
Not knocking FPS, I play COD and other games, but that's why I think there are many, many ways for this to go wrong, on its own and for EVE.
It seems strange that you think maintaining "the online" (is that how people talk these days?) would be a problem for a company that has been running an MMO for several years now... |
Kyra Felann
Gallente
The Scope
|
Posted - 2011.04.04 07:36:00 - [ 35]
Originally by: Infinion
I hope it won't require an xbox live subscription along with a dust subscription, or its going to die very quickly
If you'd paid the slightest bit of attention, you'd know that Dust won't have a monthly subscription. |
AKLEMADSS |
Posted - 2011.04.04 08:04:00 - [ 36]
Edited by: AKLEMADSS on 04/04/2011 08:07:36 Originally by: Ban Doga
Originally by: Tentacle Monster
OK let's face it, unless the game is the new Unreal Tournament, it won't have multiplayer past the first 15 months, like most other console FPS. Integrating its gameplay into EVE's will be a short-lived thing. And then CCP will have to maintain an ingame system that only a few hundred players, if that, bother with. They'd have to maintain the online indefinitely, which no company does. And they'll have to assign people to keep it balanced and in tune with EVE. I'm guessing whatever it is, if CCP is smart they'll design it like a lizard's tail that can be detached when it becomes a liability.
Not knocking FPS, I play COD and other games, but that's why I think there are many, many ways for this to go wrong, on its own and for EVE.
It seems strange that you think maintaining "the online" (is that how people talk these days?) would be a problem for a company that has been running an MMO for several years now...
Yeah, for dozens of thousands of paying people at the same time, not a niche audience of people that pay once when the game is released and then never again. I don't know if Dust will have dedicated servers, I'm guessing it will, and that'll make it more expensive to maintain. You know F.E.A.R. 2? Who doesn't? Got it a year after release, got online, saw no more than a dozen achievement boosters. Dust will end up like that sooner or later, that's all. |
Antihrist Pripravnik
Scorpion Road Industry
|
Posted - 2011.04.04 08:14:00 - [ 37]
If Dust dies, EVE's PI feature will be back to what it's like now.
If EVE dies, DUST will not exist. |
Ban Doga |
Posted - 2011.04.04 08:31:00 - [ 38]
Edited by: Ban Doga on 04/04/2011 08:32:49 Originally by: AKLEMADSS
Edited by: AKLEMADSS on 04/04/2011 08:07:36
Originally by: Ban Doga
Originally by: Tentacle Monster
OK let's face it, unless the game is the new Unreal Tournament, it won't have multiplayer past the first 15 months, like most other console FPS. Integrating its gameplay into EVE's will be a short-lived thing. And then CCP will have to maintain an ingame system that only a few hundred players, if that, bother with. They'd have to maintain the online indefinitely, which no company does. And they'll have to assign people to keep it balanced and in tune with EVE. I'm guessing whatever it is, if CCP is smart they'll design it like a lizard's tail that can be detached when it becomes a liability.
Not knocking FPS, I play COD and other games, but that's why I think there are many, many ways for this to go wrong, on its own and for EVE.
It seems strange that you think maintaining "the online" (is that how people talk these days?) would be a problem for a company that has been running an MMO for several years now...
Yeah, for dozens of thousands of paying people at the same time, not a niche audience of people that pay once when the game is released and then never again. I don't know if Dust will have dedicated servers, I'm guessing it will, and that'll make it more expensive to maintain. You know F.E.A.R. 2? Who doesn't? Got it a year after release, got online, saw no more than a dozen achievement boosters. Dust will end up like that sooner or later, that's all.
Dust will have dedicated servers, alone for that fact they will have to create servers that are closer to the players for latency (mentioned at Fanfest, I think) and for the fact that they are running completely different software (whowuddathunkit). Yes, games that are single player first person shooters with an additional multiplayer part might suffer from not having running servers / active players to use that multiplayer part at some point in the future. But for all we know the conditions and goals for DUST are quite different: multiplayer only, tied into another MMO, developed / run by a company with extensive experience in running an MMO. Your experience with F.E.A.R. 2 is certainly right, just not very relevant IMO. About "sooner or later": "The long run is a misleading guide to current affairs. In the long run we are all dead." John Maynard Keyes. |
Aderata Nonkin
Amarr |
Posted - 2011.04.04 08:38:00 - [ 39]
Originally by: BlackSparrowHawk
@Aderata Nonkin, Now THIS is doom and gloom and everything you mentioned in your post. A clear contrast between OP and this example of troll
I agree. There always has to be a bigger fish. |
Aderata Nonkin
Amarr |
Posted - 2011.04.04 08:45:00 - [ 40]
Originally by: Kitty Cantblock
EvE is dieing, less and less people bother logging in,
In your imaginary world perhaps. The sad fact of the matter is you're a clueless troll and as long as you stay that way you'll never see reality. You are aware the record for the amount of logged in player was smashed just a few months ago? More players than EVER BEFORE are playing and you claim EVE is dying? Like I said, clueless troll is indeed clueless. So I suggest you take your "blunt truths" and shove them. The rest of your post is not even worth quoting. Full of bad grammar and pointless rants and whines. |
Aderata Nonkin
Amarr |
Posted - 2011.04.04 09:04:00 - [ 41]
Edited by: Aderata Nonkin on 04/04/2011 09:06:35 Originally by: Wacktopia
So, I have made a simple game for you. It's called "spot the difference" - you may know it.
Funny to see someone trying to be sarcastic and fail so miserably. CCP is taking a calculated risk. If you've ever actually played EVE instead of just whining and moaning about it on the forums you'd know what "risk" means. They're making an innovating new console game that ties in with a huge universe and they let the console gamers go wild inside it. Anything can fail; humanity might fail, the world might fail, our universe might fail before DUST is released. What the playerbase and the developers call "fail" differs in many, many ways. But you know all about compare and contrast so I don't think I need to explain these basic concepts for you, right. Quote:
Computer MMOs: Long shelf life, constant development, hardware and game updates, loyal fanbase
Console FPS: Shorter shelf life, single development, fixed hardware, trend-shifting fanbase
That holds somewhat true today perhaps. Unless you've been sleeping in your damp cave the past five years (which I highly suspect you have) you'd see the consoles are approaching an era where they emulate the computer world's way of development with constant patches, firmwares etc. Saying all PC MMOs have a long shelf-life and constant development is a bad joke and only serves to make you look like the clueless troll I suspect you are. I hope you didn't really mean that or a result of your bad English. In the end I think you'd better keep those cookies for yourself, the nutrition from it might actually kickstart your brain. |
Myra2007
Millstone Industries |
Posted - 2011.04.04 10:04:00 - [ 42]
Aderata in full trolling mode again. What's not to like? |
Morpheus Mishima
Caldari |
Posted - 2011.04.04 10:14:00 - [ 43]
This is what's going to happen:
Dust launches on the Xbox360 platform. Microsoft is overjoyed. CCP feels slightly abused. 2 weeks later Microsoft announces the Xbox"720". CCP is ****ed and feels like it has been used, tricked and ****d.
Console-players (kids) doesn't pick it up, because of the new CoD 17 - Ultra modern **** warfare game is "much" better. EVE players however feels like they have are being forced into buying a Xbox (if they don't already own one - most don't).
6 weeks after launch most of the Dust players are actually EVE players multiboxing both games. CCP went back on their promise to never charge for an expansion. Dust fails. |
Aderata Nonkin
Amarr |
Posted - 2011.04.04 10:15:00 - [ 44]
Originally by: Myra2007
Aderata in full trolling mode again. What's not to like?
Only an ignorant would call what I'm saying "trolling". Take the dirty sheets off your eyes for once. |
Brooks Puuntai
Minmatar
Nomadic Asylum
|
Posted - 2011.04.04 10:55:00 - [ 45]
Your title should be "when dust fails" not "what if". Its already known the link between dust and eve is so minute that if either one fails then the other wont be effected. |
Lise Kahel |
Posted - 2011.04.04 11:28:00 - [ 46]
EVE will be dead tomorrow.
But in seriousness; Dust cannot have the 'forever' moniker CCP is so serious about in relation to EVE Online. Most consoles have passed 50% of their life cycle with Dust's release date still being TBA. FPSes (in whatever cool form) have different benchmarks; even the Unreal 3 tech is growing older fast (unless you're willing to put in massive investments to touch it up).
There's more stuff to consider; even if you make it into a reasonbly succesful game that can actually compete with games in their genre (as if that's possible with any game with even a slight hint of a learning curve, and I'm not talking hard to master; an actual learning curve), console gamers are by definition idiots with some form of attention deficit. Be it by age or conformity. The fundamental difference between a console FPS gamer and an MMO player might just be too hard to overcome, making the EVE-Dust link superficial at best, and certainly doesn't add anything of value to either game. |
Wacktopia
Sicarius.
Legion of The Damned. |
Posted - 2011.04.04 12:03:00 - [ 47]
Originally by: Aderata Nonkin
Originally by: Wacktopia
So, I have made a simple game for you. It's called "spot the difference" - you may know it.
Funny to see someone trying to be sarcastic and fail so miserably.
Funny because I made a valid point or...? Originally by: Aderata Nonkin
CCP is taking a calculated risk. If you've ever actually played EVE instead of just whining and moaning about it on the forums you'd know what "risk" means.
Well I do play EVE (obv) and I do know what risk means. Yeah, DUST is a risk. In fact, I think I was alluding to that in my post and not actually whining at all. So... you agree with me or...? Originally by: Aderata Nonkin
They're making an innovating new console game that ties in with a huge universe and they let the console gamers go wild inside it. Anything can fail; humanity might fail, the world might fail, our universe might fail before DUST is released.
Wow, oh wow. "Anything can fail". So what you're saying here, I think, is that when people take risks they have no way of... how can I put this.... "calculating" what the outcome might be. Originally by: Aderata Nonkin
What the playerbase and the developers call "fail" differs in many, many ways. But you know all about compare and contrast so I don't think I need to explain these basic concepts for you, right.
Don't think I mentioned "fail" in my post. In fact I do not think DUST will "fail". I beleive it will probably be a roaring success. My point, which you "fail" to have grasped completely, is that console games and PC MMO's are quite different and linking the two technically seems to me a little "risky". Now you see I used that word "risk" again. Here is the risk: They invest thousands of man-hours creating a system that will allows players to interact in some way in the same universe but on completely different hardware and in completely different game types. Then after a couple of years the console gang move on to a new game. My point is: why not just make it the same universe, like a concept, and forget trying to technically make it possible to "order troops in" and it actually affect the other game? It would still be cool, hell I would probably still play it, but it would save all that time. Originally by: Aderata Nonkin
Quote:
Computer MMOs: Long shelf life, constant development, hardware and game updates, loyal fanbase
Console FPS: Shorter shelf life, single development, fixed hardware, trend-shifting fanbase
That holds somewhat true today perhaps. Unless you've been sleeping in your damp cave the past five years (which I highly suspect you have) you'd see the consoles are approaching an era where they emulate the computer world's way of development with constant patches, firmwares etc.
I'm going need some existing examples of consoles that persist beyond the new version coming out or console FPS games that retain large fan-bases after the next new fotm comes out. Yes consoles have patches and "firmware upgrades" but really that does not drive the performance forward, it just fixes bugs etc. When the next xBox comes out you cannot open your old xbox up and upgrade some part to play the latest xbox game that is released with the new version. Games developers don't make a console game for the 360 and make it so you can play on the original xbox with graphics options turned down. The two are just different beasts. Originally by: Aderata Nonkin
Saying all PC MMOs have a long shelf-life and constant development is a bad joke and only serves to make you look like the clueless troll I suspect you are.
I hope you didn't really mean that or a result of your bad English.
No, it is a fact. And I was talking generally, not exclusively. Originally by: Aderata Nonkin
In the end I think you'd better keep those cookies for yourself, the nutrition from it might actually kickstart
your brain.
Hahaha... p**ck. |
Aderata Nonkin
Amarr |
Posted - 2011.04.04 13:29:00 - [ 48]
Edited by: Aderata Nonkin on 04/04/2011 13:31:38 Originally by: Wacktopia
Well I do play EVE (obv) and I do know what risk means. Yeah, DUST is a risk. In fact, I think I was alluding to that in my post and not actually whining at all. So... you agree with me or...?
Not everything I write is directed at you personally, I'd suggest you stop being so self-centred for a minute and try and read what I'm actually trying to say. In regards to whining; it's a fact that this forum is used by most people to vent their frustrations about various aspects of the game. This naturally includes the upcoming DUST. It's not surprising, then, that a random player decides to spread doom and gloom based on his own flawed predictions and opinions. Quote:
So what you're saying here, I think, is that when people take risks they have no way of... how can I put this.... "calculating" what the outcome might be.
On the contrary. It seems people take for granted the outcome will be what they predict because they've played computer games for X years and know better. I've only played EVE Online (as far as MMOs go) and don't consider myself a "hardcore gamer". I don't claim to know all there is about game history. But I do see logic, reason and - most importantly - a games developer that is breaking boundaries and thinking outside of the iBox. Quote:
Don't think I mentioned "fail" in my post. In fact I do not think DUST will "fail".
Again, don't assume everything is about your person. It seems EVE players, in general, like to throw arbitrary expressions such as the word "fail" because their vocabulary doesn't support any sort of complex discussion. Quote:
Then after a couple of years the console gang move on to a new game.
You assume that to be true based on what you know today. You have no clue about what the situation might be when the game is released and, indeed, a couple of years down the road. Quote:
I'm going need some existing examples of consoles that persist beyond the new version coming out or console
Like I've mentioned before, I'm not a huge gamer and I don't claim to know the minds of a console gamer like the armchair-critiques that litter this forum. But I'd say that games such as GTA or older 80s classics in new iterations are popular. The flaw in your logic is that you think you know the minds of every console gamer and therefore come to the conclusion that it will not work in the long-run. This does not include all the ideas and planning CCP has put into place prior to releasing the game in the first place, which makes a discussion whether it will "fail" or not useless. We simply don't have enough factors to make a proper judgment. As for your verbal abuse. I suggest you stay away from name-calling lest you want to be taken for a fool. |
Diesel47 |
Posted - 2011.04.04 13:41:00 - [ 49]
I bought an Xbox just so I can play dust when it comes out.
I hate how they are making it console only though...
But hey, that just means I can play it on the TV while I order air strikes and vehicle drops for me from eve to whenever I want.
Sounds like fun. |
Wacktopia
Sicarius.
Legion of The Damned. |
Posted - 2011.04.04 14:45:00 - [ 50]
Edited by: Wacktopia on 04/04/2011 14:46:28 Originally by: Aderata Nonkin
The flaw in your logic is that you think you know the minds of every console gamer and therefore come to the conclusion that it will not work in the long-run. This does not include all the ideas and planning CCP has put into place prior to releasing the game in the first place, which makes a discussion whether it will "fail" or not useless. We simply don't have enough factors to make a proper judgment.
No. My logic is based upon existing examples and facts. The flaw in your logic is that you are hypothesising what might happen in the contrary. Yeah that might be your opinion, which you're entitled to, but you cannot attack my logic with your opinion. It just doesn't work like that. Originally by: Aderata Nonkin
As for your verbal abuse. I suggest you stay away from name-calling lest you want to be taken for a fool.
Ok you got me there. It was intentionally so as a come-back to your equally witless "it might kickstart your brain" comment.  Originally by: Diesel47
I bought an Xbox just so I can play dust when it comes out.
Unless when it comes out it runs only on the then-new xbox "720" or whatever it will be called but you have the 360.  |
Barakkus |
Posted - 2011.04.04 14:51:00 - [ 51]
What if afk cloaking fails? Why doesn't anyone every discuss that? Huh? |
Jame Jarl Retief |
Posted - 2011.04.04 14:55:00 - [ 52]
Personally I feel Dust the way they plan to do it now doesn't stand a chance of being a success. EVE players are not console players, and vice versa. How many here want having some snotnosed 12-year-old running around playing Rambo on his console having a direct impact on your planetary interaction in EVE? I sure as heck don't. Similarly, what does a console bunny care about PI in EVE, when he's never played EVE and never will?
I can understand Dust as a spinoff of EVE, that is an FPS game based on EVE universe, lore, etc. It might turn into a nice IP like Halo series. But as a game with an active connection to EVE universe? Horrible idea. Neither console players nor EVE players in general will care for it.
|
Velicitia
Gallente
Open Designs |
Posted - 2011.04.04 15:49:00 - [ 53]
Originally by: Bane Loppknow
I'm looking forward to being able to nuke my friends from orbit.
... It's the only way to be sure... |
Soma Khan
Caldari |
Posted - 2011.04.04 16:00:00 - [ 54]
Originally by: Barakkus
What if afk cloaking fails? Why doesn't anyone every discuss that? Huh?
will afk cloaking work in dust? |
Aderata Nonkin
Amarr |
Posted - 2011.04.04 16:07:00 - [ 55]
Originally by: Wacktopia
My logic is based upon existing examples and facts.
Spoken like a true british MP. I'm certain any existing examples you might have aren't sufficient enough to make any sort of balanced prediction. And what kind of "facts" is it you have? Quote:
The flaw in your logic is that you are hypothesising what might happen in the contrary.
You're wrong, I don't hypothesize at all. Like I said, nobody has the relevant factors to make a balanced and fair prediction. Quote:
Yeah that might be your opinion, which you're entitled to, but you cannot attack my logic with your opinion.
I haven't noticed much logic yet, enlighten me where I can find it please. Quote:
It was intentionally so as a come-back to your equally witless "it might kickstart your brain" comment.
I don't appreciate being patronized just because I don't share the opinion of the masses. Hopefully you realized that by my remark. It certainly seemed to have taken root, seeing as you had to come back with a reply that got filtered. |
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