| Author |
Topic |
ACESsiggy
Gallente |
Posted - 2011.05.23 10:53:00 - [ 61]
I stopped reading after "diversificated." lol |
Isebella Ahih
Amarr |
Posted - 2011.05.23 11:11:00 - [ 62]
Edited by: Isebella Ahih on 23/05/2011 11:14:02 Originally by: Luminus Mallus
FIX 1 - pay for concord escort. they'll be there to fight as AI wingmen.
Absolutely not, Easily one of the worst ideas posted here this month. Originally by: Luminus Mallus
FIX 2 - create an 'escort duty' bulletin board where people put themselves up for hire
Sure, No real reason not to i guess, But people like you would still whine just as much as now and stay in highsec claiming low sec is too risky. Originally by: Luminus Mallus
battleships and frigates
Yeah, A battleship can be beaten by a single frigate, If the Battleship pilot has no idea what he's doing, Otherwise no, It won't happen, Simple as that, And no, "bigger" should not equal "better". Originally by: Luminus Mallus
problem b) a frigate can jam/ scramble/ web a ship bigger in class with a single module
FIX - again a design flaw that can't be possibly understood or tolerated. there is no "reasonable" in game or out game rule that would possibly allow this. Debatable fix? The bigger the ship class difference, the more of the same modules you need. Frigate vs battleship? 5 modules. Not enough slots? Get a bigger ship.
Again, "Bigger" does not, And should not, equal "better" Originally by: Luminus Mallus
insurance stuff
Absolutely no freaking way. It would be ridiculously exploitable (build ship from minerals, "sell" ship to alt for 10x mineral cost, insure ship, blow it up, instant 10x the money you put in returned), And even if you fix the exploit issues it'd remove all risk from the game and turn EVE into wow in space, NO THANKS, losing a ship SHOULD cost you, With full insurance covering everything except cargo, it wouldn't. Originally by: Luminus Mallus
isk influx
It's hardly difficult even for a casual player to get isk for pvp ships, Assuming of course, That said player is capable of thinking beyond "derp, mining" Originally by: Luminus Mallus
problem e) pvp. 'nuff said.
FIX - with previous points fixed, pvp shouldn't be an issue at this point.
pvp is fine unless you're an idiot who wants risk-free pvp. Besides that, According to you the problem with pvp is that "there's no player skill involved, more isk and SP = auto-win" (which is wrong btw), How exactly does removing risk from the game and making "bigger ship than opponent = autowin" suddenly make player skill matter according to you? Originally by: Luminus Mallus
pve stuff
None of this would change that pve is mindnumbingly repetitive, which is the only problem with EVE pve, Increasing rewards would not make it "fun", neither would any other of your "fixes". That said, Yes, EVE PVE is terrible, I agree with that, But your "solutions" doesn't solve anything. Originally by: Luminus Mallus
problem g) all ships undocking from stations exactly from the same spot, superimposing eachother and intersecating eachother. disgusting.
FIX - like many other graphical aspects (weapons always hitting the same spots, no debris, no ricochet or particles on projectile/ laser impact, etc.) it'd take just a few hours to bring actuality to the game.
... yes, clearly one of EVEs biggest problems is that ships undock in the same spot >_> Quite frankly, I think you're a bit of an idiot, But you're entitled to your opinion as much as me. That said, If you think the game is so terrible, Then just quit, There's no need to ruin it for the rest of us just to suit you when there's no doubt other games on the market that fits you better with risk-free carebear "pvp" where winning or losing doesn't matter in the slightest and whoever has better gear is guaranteed a win. |
Isebella Ahih
Amarr |
Posted - 2011.05.23 11:35:00 - [ 63]
Edited by: Isebella Ahih on 23/05/2011 11:37:05 Originally by: Luminus Mallus
Quite clearly your assumptions are puerile to say the least. The point is not the quantity of ships in my hangar, all ready and fit for different purposes,
the point is that if you want to pve and you're in space, you need dock and do some time consuming and annoying **** to pvp. The fact that you have a ship ready is just as stupid, as well. Spend millions or even billions to equip maybe an identical ship, for a different setup. Ridiculous other than stupid. And then you have to undock. Very "heat of the action". Wasting four minutes (counting just warps, dock and ship timer times).
And your statement about pve/ pvp? Ridiculously false. I don't even waste my time trying to find one successful mmo game that requires you to separate pve/ pvp equipment to even have a chance.
Really? not one? Ok, I'll do it for you, WoW, Yes, THAT game, with it's 10+ million subscribers do in fact utilize separate gear for pve and pvp, AND different talent setups that need to be changed, Ever try fighting a player with 4k resilience pvp specced char while wearing pve gear and using pve talents? No? I'll tell you what happens, He will wtfrofl stomp you and probably still have 75% of his health left. Quote:
This has nothing to do with what i referred to in the ridiculous flaw of the weapon slot limitation regardless of class. A titan has the maximum number of guns of a destroyer, and can't defend itself from flea sized ships.
Yeah, We see titans getting killed by frigates and destroyers every day >_> And, Just in case you're a bit daft and don't get it, Yes, They can in fact defend themselves just fine, It's called "drones" and "tank", or "smartbombs", "neuts", hell, if you want we can also throw in "friends", You know, since this is in fact an mmo, you know, a MULTIPLAYER game, and titans aren't intended to be used solo. Quote:
I really don't know where are you coming from with these absurdities. Even now you can fleet with random people, yet i see no "abnormal" grief or abuse. Point is, the current fleeting system is utter **** and fail.
How so? Easy to set a fleet up, Though admittedly not "random" fleets. Gives fairly large benefits (unless you're talking for missions, Which have nothing to do with the fleet system itself). Quote:
Eve is a game, but you seem one of those deluded fools that forces himself to think otherwise just because games are for nerds, or some other mental ************ byproduct.
Eve's economy is infested and destroyed by speculation. In the year 10000000 a.d.
Sure, EVEs economy is terrible, If you think a good economy equals "everything is available for everyone for cheap and easily replaced", If however you're a somewhat reasonable person capable of rational thought you should be able to figure out why EVEs market is probably the closest you'll get to a real-world economy in any mmo on the market right now. Quote:
But eventually i'm not blind just because the game's full of fanboiis.
As i said in my post above, if you don't like the game, quit and find one you DO like, Don't try to change the game to suit you at the cost of those who DO like it when there's hundreds of other games that suit you better. Oh and, Don't let the door hit you on the way out. |
Gustav Knuttsen |
Posted - 2011.05.23 11:39:00 - [ 64]
Do NOT subscribe. Its the only thing that can be done to change this game. If there will be more such a PPL CCP will see "WTF??" we are lousing players !!! "Do something with it !!" So YES. DONT SUBSCRIBE. Only few weeks left and I will also stop my subscriptions. Its the only way that I can change this game :( |
Women's Rights |
Posted - 2011.05.23 11:43:00 - [ 65]
Edited by: Women''s Rights on 23/05/2011 11:44:55
I think the PVP is pretty realistic. Do you expect fair fights ever, for anything? Having a 1 vs. 1 brawl?? is and should be player driven content. I mean really, what do you suggest. An arena?
I think the worst thing CCP did was actually delay WiS for whatever reason for all these years. I mean really, was it worth it forum warriors crying for space features.. was it worth it, honestly..? Honestly? Are you enjoying all of the new space content and now getting WiS/ambulation whatever... in 2011 when its pmuch to late.
WaaaHH I want space things to click on, I'm hardcore gatecampAr |
Isebella Ahih
Amarr |
Posted - 2011.05.23 11:46:00 - [ 66]
Originally by: Luminus Mallus
You write that eve is not for me... but wait a second... you're suggesting that -I- should adapt to eve, and not the contrary?
No, He's suggesting that, *gasp* instead of demaning that a game which hundreds of thousands enjoy changes to suit YOU, You go play a game that you DO enjoy. Originally by: Luminus Mallus
"who gives if the game is unbalanced, flawed and outdated? There's a lot of players that are a-ok with that (another 1000 players in the next two years, in which time 2000 others would have left).
The other players? Those playing the other games? **** them. We don't need subscriptions."
EVE is in fact, despite your claims, Increasing it's subscriber count, Just like it has steadily ever since it launched, And not by as little as 1-2k per year either. |
Baneken
Gallente
The New Knighthood
Apocalypse Now. |
Posted - 2011.05.23 12:44:00 - [ 67]
Point 1) They tried fair fights in WW I, it didn't work that well now did it ?
point 2) that Hype was disgrace even for a PvE fit, let alone for PvE, had you happened to pull anything harder from your agent (with scrambling frigates) I bet you would be whining here that current PvE is too hard.
point 3) Most of the content is player driven from player to player and has been from the day one.
point 4) low sec had gate guns which kill anything smaller then a BC with a few volleys, fly small ships and you have no problems.
point 5) PvP does require a use of brains to not utterly suck, though you obviously lack in "googling for proper fittings"-department
point 6) Economy is run entirely by players aside from skills books and some other items (hint; a 365d is an NPC-order, player order is always less then 80days).
point 7) all games that have pvp content require you to have a different gear for PvP, unless you're feeling masochistic ofc.
point 8) you don't have to fit a scrambler but then you couldn't kill anyone without 'a snare' could you ?
point 9) finding a proper corp is a fundamental aspect of liking this game, if you fail then EVE fails for you.
point 10) There are better ways to make money then running missions in this game but you and plenty of other people in thread obviously haven't figured that out yet.
Mission running is the social welfare of this game, it's what you do when you're lazy or all else fails.
Point 11) if you would had had any info about aggression mechanics of this game you wouldn't had lost your hype but you didn't care about "the warning screen" (or had it disabled), opened fire first and paid the consequences; which must be a new thing for you in a computer game. |
Daniel Torro
Minmatar
Production N Destruction INC.
|
Posted - 2011.05.23 13:05:00 - [ 68]
Originally by: Luminus Mallus
Eve fails
You sir are wrong there. Just because a game doesn't fit YOUR expectations of what a game is doesn't mean it fails. |
Luminus Mallus |
Posted - 2011.05.23 13:16:00 - [ 69]
Originally by: Baneken
Point 1) They tried fair fights in WW I, it didn't work that well now did it ?
point 2) that Hype was disgrace even for a PvE fit, let alone for PvE, had you happened to pull anything harder from your agent (with scrambling frigates) I bet you would be whining here that current PvE is too hard.
point 3) Most of the content is player driven from player to player and has been from the day one.
point 4) low sec had gate guns which kill anything smaller then a BC with a few volleys, fly small ships and you have no problems.
point 5) PvP does require a use of brains to not utterly suck, though you obviously lack in "googling for proper fittings"-department
point 6) Economy is run entirely by players aside from skills books and some other items (hint; a 365d is an NPC-order, player order is always less then 80days).
point 7) all games that have pvp content require you to have a different gear for PvP, unless you're feeling masochistic ofc.
point 8) you don't have to fit a scrambler but then you couldn't kill anyone without 'a snare' could you ?
point 9) finding a proper corp is a fundamental aspect of liking this game, if you fail then EVE fails for you.
point 10) There are better ways to make money then running missions in this game but you and plenty of other people in thread obviously haven't figured that out yet.
Mission running is the social welfare of this game, it's what you do when you're lazy or all else fails.
Point 11) if you would had had any info about aggression mechanics of this game you wouldn't had lost your hype but you didn't care about "the warning screen" (or had it disabled), opened fire first and paid the consequences; which must be a new thing for you in a computer game.
I'm saving mental sanity by ignoring the "replies" above, since your bandwagon jump mostly summarises it all. 1) what sort of unbalanced mind can compare WW1 to a space game? You did it. Yet eve is a game. Games are fun only if they're balanced. 2) lol i love the fail in the insistence of starting a flame with my ship loss. As a matter of fact, i learned the hard way what sort of ******ed **** was eve's PVE VS PVP. rofl i'm sure you all knew in advance. 3) yeah, and that makes it instantly perfect and balanced and fun... please. 4) wtf? 5) i'm sure your brains work perfectly when you're being ganked 5 vs 1, perma jammed, webbed and scrambled. i'm totally sure your brains will save your day. Come on, you're just ridiculous here. 6) ... and where does your statement in any manner contribute to the obvious fact that "economy" is actually destroyed by the unlimited speculation of high tier equipment and ships and goods? 7) i'm quite sure that you, like other players that state this idiocy about "other games pve <> pvp", do not quite play other games, to be so stupid as to assert such an idiotically evident and obvious lie. 8) some other non sequitur. 9) curious then that the "new player training" does not even marginally touch the argument. 10) How should i put this...? Ok let's get straight to the point. Again, eve is a goddamned ****ing GAME. Some people -different than you and other fanboiis obviously- don't have 8 hours a day to play. Running a couple of missions (see mining, too) is logically the only possible way to play, especially since fleeting and pvp are **** and require set up, preparation and other game unfriendly ******ed notions that make eve so much of a fail. So no, it's not a matter of "not having figured out yet", it's rather a matter of "what the **** i don't have the 5 hours a day i would need to pull out those million isks to fuel my pvp activity" 11) see point 2. again it must've been good that somebody explained thorougly to you how the aggression system worked, before you had the chance to discover it by yourself. By the way the warning screen doesn't explain that concord won't protect you if you open fire, despite having rights to. By the way,the post is still about subscribe or not subscribe. |
Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
|
Posted - 2011.05.23 13:53:00 - [ 70]
Originally by: Luminus Mallus
1) what sort of unbalanced mind can compare WW1 to a space game?
A mind that recognizes that a game centred around competition and warfare has some lessons in common with actual warfare. For instance, the lesson "if you're in a fair fight, you're doing it wrong." The trick of the game is to ensure that things are imbalanced in your favour. Quote:
Games are fun only if they're balanced.
…and here's the thing: the game is balanced; the situation might not be. Again: the trick is to make sure that the situation is imbalanced in your favour. Quote:
3) yeah, and that makes it instantly perfect and balanced and fun... please.
It means you can't blame the imbalances on the game, but on how people choose to play it. They play to win, apparently… Quote:
4) wtf?
Dwelling in lowsec is easy — use a small, fast and/or agile ship. Quote:
5) i'm sure your brains work perfectly when you're being ganked 5 vs 1, perma jammed, webbed and scrambled.
Actually, being able to keep cool under those circumstances and still being able to use your brain is an important skill to train. But even more important is the ability to use your brain to avoid that situation entirely — i.e. to make sure things are imbalanced in your favour. Quote:
6) ... and where does your statement in any manner contribute to the obvious fact that "economy" is actually destroyed by the unlimited speculation of high tier equipment and ships and goods?
How is that a fact? How is the economy being destroyed by speculation? The thing that is destroying the economy right now is the larger-than-healthy influx of ISK… Quote:
7) i'm quite sure that you, like other players that state this idiocy about "other games pve <> pvp", do not quite play other games
Sure they do. That's why they know for a fact that other games make rather drastic distinction between PvE and PvP equipment, tactics and abilities. Quote:
8) some other non sequitur.
Read your OP, and the point becomes clear. Quote:
9) curious then that the "new player training" does not even marginally touch the argument.
It does, actually… Or, well, it did when I was new — don't know if that has changed. Quote:
10) So no, it's not a matter of "not having figured out yet", it's rather a matter of "what the **** i don't have the 5 hours a day i would need to pull out those million isks to fuel my pvp activity"
If you think you'd need 5h per day to make those millions, then it most certainly is a matter of not having figured it out yet. And not just the "how do I make money" part, but also the "how do I avoid losing money?" bit, which is just as important. |
Nix Gravity |
Posted - 2011.05.23 14:00:00 - [ 71]
I think the best lesson you could take to understanding Eve comes from Conan the Barbarian who said: "A man alone is nothing."
A lot of the things you are asking for are not things a large part of the Eve player base wants.
I - Bigger ships are not better ships than small ships. They do different things. Can an elephant kill a mosquito? No, he can't track him. They cost more, they can do more damage in the right circumstances, but they shouldn't beat a smaller ship unless they are equipped to do that (and there are fits for that).
II - You have to work with others in a multiplayer game. No concord escorts, no being assigned random groups with other players. You want to group with others? Talk to them. You'd be surprised how nice some people are. Oh, and to get people to be nice, be nice to them. We once had an audition from some epeen swinging pretended in a corp I was in, who spent a whole roam trash talking everyone. We took him to a safe spot and liberated him of his ship, because people should be able to do that, and can, in Eve.
III - Different fits for different purposes. Yes, we like this. I think a lot of people enjoy Eve for the theorycrafting of fits and getting a ship to do what *they* want.
IV - You are the only one who doesn't like our economy, though your grumbles about insurance specifically have some supporters.
Now the points I agree with:
I - Would be nice to see guns hit different points on a ship, and a few of the graphics things you mention.
II - PvE is rather bland.
Eve isn't a game for everyone, and if there is so many fundamental things you don't like, it probably isn't for you. That's ok. Hopefully you will be able to find a game that suits you. Thanks for being part of the community and your good graphical ideas. |
Chro'Tal
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion |
Posted - 2011.05.23 14:10:00 - [ 72]
- Eve is a game that is designed/promoted to have no real limits on engagement sizes or player opportunites. As such CCP does not jump on the "lets make it pretty" bandwagon - there is enough lag as it is. Its easy to incorporate high end graphics like in first person shooters, but who even zooms in on the own ship or the opponent while in space or fighting?... Who cares what part of the ship your weapons hit visually? CCP got good designers etc, but there is a reason it hasn't been done yet.
- Walking around and "meeting" player avatars does not help community building significantly. Corporations, Alliances and even Coalitions have formed nevertheless and the EVE community has endured for years. EVE caters to PC nerds, who are used to communicate through text chats/IRC and (integrated) voice comms. We do not want the game to be like WOW, even if CCP would love the cash influx.
- PVE in EVE is repetitive, as same as in any MMO it is a constant grind. You obviously have not seen high end DED plexes, wormholes with sleeper AI or Incursions etc because you are only talking about Level 4/5 missions and even complain about the slight risks involved for flying into lowsec. In other games you HAVE to have 20+ dudes to hack at one Monster to kill it after 2 hours to then fight over a "possible" drop of an item, so that is better?
- I love CCP for not linking the PVE money grind to actual player skill progression, it is a concept many people cannot grasp apparently. It supports the mature player base who actually work in RL and do not have time to catch up with little kids grinding their way to maxed out characters in no time.
- EVE solo PVP is 70% player skill and knowledge how to utilize fittings and flight mechanics. Even if there are only limited types of modules, there is a dozen different variations of each module and each has its useful range/efficiencies etc. No MMO is as complex as this and you want even more??? Usual fantasy MMO you just stand there, maybe even turned away from the action to avoid lag, and activate some modules, watching a healthbar. I have seen experienced players kill pimped enemy ships with their 2 week old new character - thats not a feat possible in any other game.
- players ganking other players in PVP is not caused by EVE mechanics, its the instinct for social interaction with your internetspaceship buddies. You cannot expect the average and unexperienced player to be so bold and engage targets by himself. Some might do that, but most want to feel self assured first. What YOU consider a fair fight is a board game like CHESS or some kind of arena combat, with fixed rules of engagement and nobody interfering. Any game that is not exclusive to 1v1 will lead into a "gank" eventually.
- Insurance is in game to make the start easier for beginners, not to make the game risk free or PVP cheap. If expensive faction ships would pay out in the same ratio as Tech 1 nobody would even bother with T1 ships anymore.
- Your comment about Frigates vs Battleship shows again, that you have been affected too much by other games where bigger/more expensive always > anything. EVE is built around the Rock-paper-scissors principal, as such battleships can hardly defend themselves against small ships but are devestating against their next smaller counterparts. Is that so hard to understand? Also do not quote real life examples, as naval battleships/carriers cannot do anythign against submarines or frigates. they rely on smaller or specialised cruisers to do the job.
CCP is not perfect, neither is this game. Still, you clearly do not know enough about the game to judge it.
Just biomass your character already and play another game you really like, instead of wasting internet bandwith and storage capacities for your rants. If you want to improve the game, direct your efforts towards the CSM and post in approriate channels so CCP might maybe see them. |
Barbelo Valentinian
Gallente
The Scope
|
Posted - 2011.05.23 19:17:00 - [ 73]
Originally by: Caghji
I don't normally feed trolls but as there have been a number of similiar thread complaints about low sec i have to say they are complete rubbish
I'm similiar to you but less ambitious. I'm just happy to potter about in low sec doing missions, a bit of exploring, and stuff. EVE isn't designed to cater to soloists especially, but CCP have thought about us enough for it to be possible to carve your own little way through space. And low sec is part of it. The danger of low sec makes the game feel alive. Having to be careful, having to scan, having to keep an eye out for danger, all that makes my solo pottering all the richer. I'd say that it's true you have to at least get to T2 gear to do this comfortably, it's not something you can do after a few weeks, but other than that, low sec is quite liveable and I too don't understand why more people don't take the risk just for the sheer hell of it. I do agree with some of the OP's points regarding "realism" though - there are a lot of things in this game that don't fit very well with it being a supposedly high tech society (like not being able to look out of one of the zillions of windows in those space stations to see what's going on outside :) ). The trouble is, I'm unsure whether those are design decisions to limit the gameplay deliberately for some reason, or just tech limitations (network stuff, having to balance out various factors). If I had my druthers, I'd like to see more realism in the physics, to see fully functioning moving planets, some of the ship limitations the OP is talking about removed, etc., and a more properly high tech society represented. But then maybe I'm thinking of it more from a carebearish/immersioneer's point of view. Maybe a lot of things the OP complains about might be deliberately curtailed just to belance out various factors including networking, bandwidth, more instant pew pew, etc. |
Hori To
Masuat'aa Matari |
Posted - 2011.05.23 19:59:00 - [ 74]
OP is mostly right, although he's missing all the good parts of the game. I would like OP to try again with an alt. |
Nitric Oxide
Caldari |
Posted - 2011.05.23 20:33:00 - [ 75]
Originally by: Hori To
OP is mostly right, although he's missing all the good parts of the game. I would like OP to try again with an alt.
This. Also, OP forgot to mention the absolutely abhorrent UI EVE has. My three main gripes with the game are the UI, the absence of any visible missile launcher bays on the ships (for some absurd reason only turrets are visible) and the lack of further developer focus on polish of already released content. Its a shame so much of it is left half-shaped and forgotten, in favor of some bells and whistles. The graphics are passable if a bit bland, however I very much enjoyed the look of the loading screen here. Not sure whether the game looks the same even now: my better videocard died and I'm presently using an older one that can't handle higher settings. Everything about EVE gives off a feeling of incompleteness, yet I still manage to find a lot of things to enjoy in it. |
Miso Hawnee |
Posted - 2011.05.23 21:07:00 - [ 76]
tl;dr Whitewolf is the AIDs of the MMO world and they destroyed CCP. |
GateScout |
Posted - 2011.05.23 21:38:00 - [ 77]
Originally by: Luminus Mallus
The definitive goal for -any- commercial game is to attract a great number of players so that it may grow and eventually incorporate diversificated gameplay to cater all tastes.
Catering to "all tastes" is the "definitive" goal for "any commercial game?" Yet your points of contention to Eve and your desires for the game specifically prevent the game from achieving that end....  Oh wait...never mind. You're trolling. Carry on!  |
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