open All Channels
seplocked Missions & Complexes
blankseplocked Dynamic Agent Quality - Not coming to TQ
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 6

Author Topic

Liang Nuren
Posted - 2011.03.24 19:04:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Liang Nuren on 28/03/2011 23:00:06
Edited by: Liang Nuren on 27/03/2011 17:03:59
@BorisHotch They are going to be removing agent quality soon (tm) #evefanfest
@BorisHotch Agents will become dynamic. A bit like PI. More used agents quality reduces less used agents improve quality. #evefanfest

Also see http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1486814&page=2#57 for more information from the Fanfest video - including the abolishion of agent divisions.

CCP Dropbear provides some clarification at what happened at some of the round tables here and here. Long and short: Dynamic agent quality is *NOT* coming to TQ.

Implications:
- Low and null sec agents will become much more popular as today's "crap" low sec agents will see less use and rise to Q20.
- It will really destroy Motsu/massive mission hubs.
- It'll jack with tag markets.
- L2 agents will become a PITA to use for noobs (they'll all be high high quality). Eoras Northwind adds that it may be difficult to rescue your standings via the now nonexistent Q0 L1 agents.
- L5 will finally drop some really pimp LP. YARRRR!!
- Shirley Serious points out that this may put a cap on the number of people using the FW agents - and thus lower the number of total people participating in the FW.
- Hesperius points out (on vent) that it might screw the US TZ players if the agents degrade over the course of the day.
- Hesperius points out (on vent) that ninja salvaging is going to take a big hit.
- Telecom Tina points out that people will have to switch corps and grind up standings if they currently run for an overly used corp. Tippia contends that mission hubs may become spread out over groups of nearby high quality agents. Gavin DeVries points out this favors people with high faction standings since they won't have to grind as much.
- Diana Araquez points out that it will force all combat agent qualities down in high sec, and the best agents will become industrial/mining agents.
- Dek'athor argues for a host of horrible consequences - not limited to everyone will canceling their account.
- Jackie Fisher says that it may incite PVP as mission running corps hire mercs to clear out other PVE/Mission corps
- sabre906 and Dek'athor point out more people may farm missions instead of blitz - effectively increasing the net ISK supply. Others disagree (add your opinion!)
- Goose99 points out that macro courier bots will be forced to change. How much is a matter of debate - add your opinion!
- Goose99 additionally points out that unless agents near low sec stop giving missions in low sec, it will simply be a nerf to high sec missions.

Hmm.... what else?

-Liang

Ed: Latest edit added CCP Dropbear's response. Its worth a read! Update: It is *NOT* coming to TQ.

Hesperius
Posted - 2011.03.24 19:10:00 - [2]
 

HAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!

So my L4 agent in null sec might pay more than my L4 agent in .7 space, crazy talk!

Jame Jarl Retief
Posted - 2011.03.24 19:12:00 - [3]
 

Edited by: Jame Jarl Retief on 24/03/2011 19:12:29
I don't know how to feel just now... Shocked

Seriously though, as interesting as it sounds, the logistics of it will get rather painful. All of my mission ships and stuff are set up at a specific system. Moving all that on a regular basis will be a pain. But that's what I'll have to do if a bunch of people suddenly decides they want to mission with that agent and knock the agent's quality way down?

On the other hand, finding a quiet system with an obscure agent somewhere might be nice, if for nothing else then to avoid ninja salvagers who haunt the current mission hubs.

And mission hubs currently act as "mini-trade hubs", with agents becoming more dynamic, those will disappear, causing more congestion in places like Jita.

A lot to ponder...

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2011.03.24 19:21:00 - [4]
 

Excellent. Time to find a new, more deeply entrenched 0.5 system. Very Happy

…of course, assuming they'll still only vary between -20 and +20, it won't make that much difference.

Leksi Bar'zuk
Posted - 2011.03.24 19:53:00 - [5]
 

SO unscannable tengus running missions out of random low/null sites noobs can't get to will be more profitable?

Nice. Time to find some new potential mission hub locations to gate-camp. MMMM faction fit tengus...

Wet Ferret
Posted - 2011.03.24 19:59:00 - [6]
 

My dream is coming true Very Happy

DEATH TO IRJUNEN

Telecom Tina
Posted - 2011.03.24 20:00:00 - [7]
 

So, since I run missions out of a popular hub in high sec, my options are to either accept a lower quality agent or grind standing with more corporations and haul junk further to market.

ugh.

Hesperius
Posted - 2011.03.24 20:04:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Telecom Tina
So, since I run missions out of a popular hub in high sec, my options are to either accept a lower quality agent or grind standing with more corporations and haul junk further to market.

ugh.

Yes, Motsu will no longer make more than my mission agent 63 jumps from Jita. Real pain indeed. I feel bad for you.

Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
Posted - 2011.03.24 20:06:00 - [9]
 

hmm wonder if they will also change lp payouts depending on security band (high/low/null) rather than individual system sec.

then again the lemmings will probably just chase the q20s anyways. Twisted Evil

Telecom Tina
Posted - 2011.03.24 20:17:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Hesperius
Originally by: Telecom Tina
So, since I run missions out of a popular hub in high sec, my options are to either accept a lower quality agent or grind standing with more corporations and haul junk further to market.

ugh.

Yes, Motsu will no longer make more than my mission agent 63 jumps from Jita. Real pain indeed. I feel bad for you.

Nobody runs missions out of Motsu. Too crowded.

The point of my post was the grind I get to look forward to, not the money. Keep in mind that you chose your agent, not the other way around. If you're not making money in null, I don't have a lot of sympathy.

Hesperius
Posted - 2011.03.24 20:23:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Telecom Tina
Nobody runs missions out of Motsu. Too crowded.

If you ever ran missions for a null sec corp you would know that you will never get any sympathy from those of us who do.

Telecom Tina
Posted - 2011.03.24 20:26:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Hesperius
Originally by: Telecom Tina
Nobody runs missions out of Motsu. Too crowded.

If you ever ran missions for a null sec corp you would know that you will never get any sympathy from those of us who do.

Damn, sympathy from null sec corps' mission runners is the standard I use to value my time Rolling Eyes

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2011.03.24 20:28:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Telecom Tina
So, since I run missions out of a popular hub in high sec, my options are to either accept a lower quality agent or grind standing with more corporations and haul junk further to market.
…or to move to a different agent that is now (much) higher-quality than they were before.

Diana Araquez
Caldari
Posted - 2011.03.24 20:43:00 - [14]
 

Edited by: Diana Araquez on 24/03/2011 20:45:44
What is wrong with hubs, they create community interaction and market opportunities. Yeah the few biggest ones are a laggy around the stations so what ? Missions take place on different grids and the load is very predictable so extra nodes can be allocated it's nowhere near as bad as fleet blobs.
People like to settle somewhere and have a "base" not run around chasing agent quality.
Even more so when it come to lowsec and NPC 0.0 agents actually.

I hope this thing is at least limited per corporation / division or else all the highest quality agents will move to Production or Accounting or some crap and stay there forever.

Also anybody else think all the highsec agents will eventually settle at around the same low value so you'll have to straight up grind 2.0 sec with no variation or progression to go 2->3, 3->4 ?


Hesperius
Posted - 2011.03.24 20:51:00 - [15]
 

I'm pretty sure this is how CCP is removing level 4's from high sec without actually removing them. A best quality L3 has the same payout as a bad quality L4. So you are better off doing the L3's since they are easier and will pay the same. Wink

stoicfaux
Gallente
Posted - 2011.03.24 20:53:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Liang Nuren

- L2 agents will become a PITA to use for noobs (they'll all be high high quality).



Having the agent's "minimum standings to use that agent" be dynamic might not be a good idea. But if it is static then it wouldn't take much to access really good agents which would be bad also. Bit of a conundrum.


Yammel
Posted - 2011.03.24 21:52:00 - [17]
 

Edited by: Yammel on 24/03/2011 21:52:41
We mission runners just spread out more, leading to every agent hovering around 0 maybe + and - say 5 either way.

Agent gets to low, you move to a higher one as do other, bring that higher agent down.

Maybe lots (nearly all?) high sec agents will plummet in quality?

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2011.03.24 22:01:00 - [18]
 

Edited by: Tippia on 25/03/2011 03:48:47
Originally by: Hesperius
I'm pretty sure this is how CCP is removing level 4's from high sec without actually removing them. A best quality L3 has the same payout as a bad quality L4. So you are better off doing the L3's since they are easier and will pay the same. Wink
No. Quality doesn't make that much difference.

…and as for finding somewhere to run (for Caldari), I'd start looking in these places (perhaps except for Suon — it's rather popular as it is):

Aridia:
  • Chibi / Mayonhen — CBD Corporation (Int.Sec).
    Requires 7 jumps through lowsec to reach highsec pocket.

Black Rise:
  • Uuhulanen / Aokinen — Caldari Navy (Int.Sec.), Lai Dai (Command).
    In the same constellation: State Protectorate (Intelligence), Caldari Navy (2ื Command).

The Citadel:
  • Usi / Ieyama — State Protectorate (Intelligence).
    In the same constellation: State Protectorate (Command).
    5ื lowsec systems.

  • Eitu / Imurukka — Corporate Police Force (Surveillance), Caldari Navy (Security).
    In the same constellation: Caldari Navy (Security), Corporate Police Force (Security).
    2ื lowsec systems.

  • Kulelen / Kantanen — Zainou (Int.Sec.).
    Uedama / Kantanen — Caldari Steel (Int.Sec.).
    In the same constellation: Spacelane Patrol (Surveillance), Rapid Assembly (Manufacturing).
    3ื lowsec systems.

  • Oisio / Otawasa — Caldari Navy (Security).
    Oshaima / Otawasa — Corporate Police Force (Surveillance), State Protectorate (Command).
    In the same constellation: Caldari Navy (Command).
    1ื lowswec systems.

  • Irjunen / Suon — Corporate Police Force (Surveillance).
    In the same constellation: Corporate Police Force (2ื Security, Command).

The Forge:
  • Ikami / Ihatalo — Peace and Order Unit (Security).
    In the same constellation:Peace and Order Unit (Surveillance).
    3ื lowsec systems

Lonetrek:

  • Torrinos / Asalola — Spacelane Patrol (Command), Home Guard (Security, Command).
    In the same constellation: Spacelane Patrol (2ื Command), Ishukone Watch (2ื Command), Corporate Police Force (Surveillance), Home Guard (Command).

  • Akonoinen / Kaala — Wiyrkomi Peace Corps (Surveillance)
    Arvasaras / Lonetrek — Sukuuvestaa Corporation (Int.Sec.)
    1ื lowsec system.

  • Elanoda / Malariya — State Protectorate (Security)
    2ื lowsec systems.

  • Vuorrassi / Mito — Spacelane Patrol (Surveillance).
    In the same constellation: Caldari Navy (Int.Sec.).
    4ื lowsec systems.

  • Otalieto / Pietanen — Ishukone Watch (Security)
    2ื lowsec systems.

Sinq Laison:
  • Barmalie / Algintal — Modern Finances (Int.Sec.).

Seraph Castillon
Gallente
Posted - 2011.03.24 22:14:00 - [19]
 

Edited by: Seraph Castillon on 24/03/2011 22:18:23
I couldn't care less about the high sec mission payout aspect this will have, but I really hope it doesn't affect the hub status of certain mission systems. I don't want to see Jita become the only place where one can buy full fittings for his ship in one place.
I honestly can't see what's wrong with static mission hubs.

And like the other guy said: this better be limited to inter lvl/division/corp shifts.

I also doubt that there can ever be enough of a good agent quality scarcity to cause an exodus of mission runners to low sec. There are ALOT of agents in high sec and some of the best ones currently have very low usage.


Liang Nuren
Posted - 2011.03.24 22:52:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Seraph Castillon

I also doubt that there can ever be enough of a good agent quality scarcity to cause an exodus of mission runners to low sec. There are ALOT of agents in high sec and some of the best ones currently have very low usage.



No, I don't think this will cause a mass exodus to low sec.... but it will make the agents in low sec that much better. :)

-Liang

Forum Troll Trolling
Forum Trolling Corp
Posted - 2011.03.25 00:09:00 - [21]
 

Do you know what this will mean?
this means pirates in lowsec will make MORE iskies missioning than the carebears in highsec!
pirates will fight over lowsec mission hubs and get together to kill more carebears that try lowsec (other than guys in stealth bombers blitzing FW missions will make even more isk)

Jason1138
Posted - 2011.03.25 02:21:00 - [22]
 

"…of course, assuming they'll still only vary between -20 and +20, it won't make that much difference."


lol hell yeah it will. for the same mission, -20 might pay 500 LP and +20 might pay 8000 LP. so 10 missions in you either have 5k LP or 80k. kind of a big deal if you ask me

Templar Dane
Amarr
Amarrian Retribution
Posted - 2011.03.25 02:23:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: Seraph Castillon

I also doubt that there can ever be enough of a good agent quality scarcity to cause an exodus of mission runners to low sec. There are ALOT of agents in high sec and some of the best ones currently have very low usage.



No, I don't think this will cause a mass exodus to low sec.... but it will make the agents in low sec that much better. :)

-Liang


Now if only they'd do something about those damn cruiser tag requirements...

Patient 2428190
DEGRREE'Fo'FREE Internet Business School
Posted - 2011.03.25 02:31:00 - [24]
 

A quality 13 agent pays out about 13-15% less LP than the quality 18 in the same system. Not exactly a small decrease.

It would be interesting to see how many missions need to be run to change the quality. The major caldari hubs are HUGE in comparsion to the popular Gallente/Minmatar hotspots.

Nauplius
Amarr
1st Praetorian Guard
Posted - 2011.03.25 02:54:00 - [25]
 

If this is actually true...

...stealth Amarr FW nerf?

As partial compensation for having one of the least desired LP of the four militia's as well as one of the harder solos, we did at least get the only (I think) Q20 agent in FW.

But now everyone will have them, meaning system security becomes the differentiator. And we only have one 0.1 system (hub moves from Huola to Kurniainen?). Unless enough missions are run to change the agent quality — in that case maybe the Gallente/Caldari front gets an advantage over ours in that they have more systems and more low security systems to spread out over...

Shirley Serious
Amarr
The Khanid Sisters of Athra
Posted - 2011.03.25 03:02:00 - [26]
 

It would kind of place a population cap on FW, wouldn't it?
It's not like there's more than one bunch of agents for each FW faction.


Wonder how they'll handle interaction with the lvl 1 agents of negative quality that are always available to allow you to recover standings with hostile factions.

E.g. if the Blood raider lvl1 agents all drift up to +quality, then you won't be able to recover standings with Blood Raiders.

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2011.03.25 03:08:00 - [27]
 

Edited by: Tippia on 25/03/2011 03:08:59
Originally by: Jason1138
lol hell yeah it will. for the same mission, -20 might pay 500 LP and +20 might pay 8000 LP. so 10 missions in you either have 5k LP or 80k. kind of a big deal if you ask me
Not really, no.

That's the difference between a 2-minute, always-blitz mission in 1.0 and a ½-hour, highly farm:able one in 0.5. Quality alone does not create those kinds of differences (especially not after effective quality has been calculated).

Liang Nuren
Posted - 2011.03.25 03:20:00 - [28]
 

Edited by: Liang Nuren on 25/03/2011 03:22:34
Originally by: Nauplius
If this is actually true...

...stealth Amarr FW nerf?

As partial compensation for having one of the least desired LP of the four militia's as well as one of the harder solos, we did at least get the only (I think) Q20 agent in FW.

But now everyone will have them, meaning system security becomes the differentiator. And we only have one 0.1 system (hub moves from Huola to Kurniainen?). Unless enough missions are run to change the agent quality — in that case maybe the Gallente/Caldari front gets an advantage over ours in that they have more systems and more low security systems to spread out over...


Those are some interesting thoughts, but I remain far from convinced it's a stealth Amarr FW nerf. You have to remember that having a high quality agent giving you tons of LP for relatively worthless items doesn't help you a whole lot. Its like you can think of LP as another form of currency, and each LP store has a different conversion rate. High supply (good quality agents) and low demand would simply imply that you have a poor conversion rate.

-Liang

Ed: Also, I think that Huola is the hub because its oh so close to the fight.

Liang Nuren
Posted - 2011.03.25 03:26:00 - [29]
 

Edited by: Liang Nuren on 25/03/2011 03:27:44
I updated the OP to include some new observations from this thread:
- Shirley Serious points out that this may put a cap on the number of FW mission agents.
- Hesperius points out (on vent) that it might screw the US TZ players if the agents degrade over the course of the day.
- Hesperius points out (on vent) that ninja salvaging is going to take a big hit.
- Telecom Tina points out that people will have to switch corps and grind up standings if they currently run for an overly used corp. Tippia contends you can simply move to another high sec agent.
- Diana Araquez points out that it will force all combat agent qualities down in high sec, and the best agents will become industrial/mining agents.

-Liang

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2011.03.25 03:57:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Liang Nuren
Tippia contends you can simply move to another high sec agent.
Weeell… that too. What I'm really getting at is that hunting for "high-quality agents" will now take a back-seat to hunting for good systems or constellations — places where you get a good cluster of alternative agents and/or a low sec status to compensate for the dips in base quality.

Hubs (as in "high-traffic areas") will still exist — they'll just centre around those kinds of system features rather than around specific agents… and Suon and Asalola will most likely remain high-traffic constellations (and probably even increase in popularity) considering the amount of alternative agents available in them. Motsu might survive because of trade-hub inertia, but it's close enough to Jita that this slight advantage will probably fade if that famous Q18 loses its appeal…


Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 6

This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 


The new forums are live

Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

These forums are archived and read-only