| Author |
Topic |
Michael J Fox |
Posted - 2011.03.18 15:31:00 - [ 1]
...was fitted with the following:
1 x large trimark armor plate
1 x large trimark armor plate
1 x large trimark armor plate
buffer tanks are partly the fault of the double hp buff of a few years ago, and partly the fault of rigs.
nerf the buffer or improve the active, ill accept either.
the current status quo makes for a huge yawnfest. |
Lt Angus
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
|
Posted - 2011.03.18 15:36:00 - [ 2]
add usefull dmg rigs and its all good |
Voogru
Gallente
Massive Damage
We Are John Galt |
Posted - 2011.03.18 15:37:00 - [ 3]
Yes.
Nerf the buffer tank so that my 8x Tobias Tempest Tribal Issue insta-pops every type of battleship. |
Michael J Fox |
Posted - 2011.03.18 15:40:00 - [ 4]
 Originally by: Voogru
Yes.
Nerf the buffer tank so that my 8x Tobias Tempest Tribal Issue insta-pops every type of battleship.
which given the huge investment in that ship would be fair enough i reckon.  |
Doddy
Excidium.
Executive Outcomes |
Posted - 2011.03.18 15:49:00 - [ 5]
The real issue is not the buffer, its the trimarks themselves. Trimarks should have a bigger drawback and/or use more calibration. Also capitals should not be able to use bs sized rigs, they should require extra-large. Why ccp made damage rigs 200 calibration (more on t2) with heavy fitting drawbacks while making tanking rigs 50 calibration for a minor speed/sig drawback (on ships who are already slow or massive sig thanks to tank) i will never know. |
Medarr
Amarr
Ghost Festival
Naraka. |
Posted - 2011.03.18 15:55:00 - [ 6]
are you serious??
No, NO, and NO. |
Zyck
Greater Order Of Destruction
Black Legion. |
Posted - 2011.03.18 15:57:00 - [ 7]
If you make active tank much better it will become overpowered in PvE and very small scale PvP, but still be useless in anything bigger. The whole point of the buffer tank is to keep you from popping almost instantly during PvP, and even if you make the active tank 10x better it won't matter when you're dead before your rep cycles or when the 20 guys shooting you way out damage your local rep anyway.
All you'd do by nerfing the buffer tank is make PvP combat a lot shorter and amount to who has the highest burst damage. |
Goose99 |
Posted - 2011.03.18 16:05:00 - [ 8]
Bring back the aoe torps. Barring that, bring back the nano.  |
Mister Smithington |
Posted - 2011.03.18 18:42:00 - [ 9]
Originally by: Michael J Fox
the current status quo makes for a huge yawnfest.
Buffer tanks are boring is hardly a sound thesis. |
Louise Achura |
Posted - 2011.03.18 19:47:00 - [ 10]
I wish CCP would add a hp bonus to shield boosters & armour reps. Something like: small shield booster = 1/2 small extender, medium shield booster = 1/3 medium shield extender, large = 1/2 large shield extender, x-l = large shield extender.
Same idea for the armour reps.
The idea is to cut down the time it take to make fitting active boosters worthwhile, thou they still require the aditional cap and fitting reqs.
shield amps may need a small resist/cap use bonus to be worth while (or a bonus to the hps given by the active booster perhapes). |
Desert Ice78
Gryphon River Industries
R-I-P |
Posted - 2011.03.18 20:02:00 - [ 11]
Edited by: Desert Ice78 on 18/03/2011 20:02:10 Originally by: Michael J Fox
...was fitted with the following:
1 x large trimark armor plate
1 x large trimark armor plate
1 x large trimark armor plate
buffer tanks are partly the fault of the double hp buff of a few years ago, and partly the fault of rigs.
nerf the buffer or improve the active, ill accept either.
the current status quo makes for a huge yawnfest.
So they got a buff a while ago, but why should we nerf the buffer tank now? |
Banana Torres
The Green Banana Corporation
|
Posted - 2011.03.18 21:02:00 - [ 12]
I agree, the rise of buffer (or passive) tanks was, in my opinion, the major factor in making PvP the snoozefest it is today.
But would players raised on easymode Drakes and Hurricanes be up to the job of managing the cap so that the guns and reps stay alive? |
Alonzo Harris |
Posted - 2011.03.18 21:21:00 - [ 13]
Originally by: Banana Torres
But would players raised on easymode Drakes and Hurricanes be up to the job of managing the cap so that the guns and reps stay alive?
Nah, they'll just troll threads like this into oblivion as always, trying so hard to not make the game any more interesting or needing effort/thought. |
Dorian Wylde |
Posted - 2011.03.18 21:35:00 - [ 14]
Originally by: Mister Smithington
Originally by: Michael J Fox
the current status quo makes for a huge yawnfest.
Buffer tanks are boring is hardly a sound thesis.
What is funnier is that while he thinks buffer tanks are boring, boosting active tanks, which means fights could start lasting a lot longer where you're just orbiting each other shooting and instantly repairing the damage for minutes on end is somehow better. |
E man Industries |
Posted - 2011.03.18 21:55:00 - [ 15]
Edited by: E man Industries on 18/03/2011 21:55:57
Disagree with buffing active tanks as it would fubar pve.
that said buffer is always always the better choice for pvp...this may need a change.
also agree that damage mods need to be mroe practical. right now only 3 rigs commonly used
CCC mods
trimarks
shield resistance or buffer's
I also hate shield passive tanks...to many pluses and no real downsides. |
Naomi Wildfire
Amarr
Spricer
Raiden. |
Posted - 2011.03.18 22:33:00 - [ 16]
Theres a pretty good balance in this, in some situations a buffer tank is superior over active reps and sometimes the active rep is superior.
A buffer tank is often used in fleet fights or against other gangs to tank more DPS than a normal active tank could handle. Either you hope that you can minimize and kill your target in time, or you are ****ed. Biggest pro is that you dont need cap to tank.
An active tank can tank a limited amount of DPS and often victorious in a 1 on 1 against a buffered ship. In some special setups, like the triple rep myrm, you can take on an equal amount of damage.
That said, i dont see any kind of needed change. |
Ephemeron
Caldari Provisions
|
Posted - 2011.03.18 22:44:00 - [ 17]
Buffer tanking is significantly superior to active tanking in PvP. And the buffer rigs are the last big thing that pushed balance over the edge. Active tank rigs are not nearly as good, especially ones that increase cap/sec usage, as active tanking already has serious capacitor vulnerability.
I believe that nerfing 15% buffer rigs to 10% (and t2 to 15%) would be a step in right direction.
At same time, the idea of active rep giving small buffer bonus is actually pretty good one. Such as, large armor rep giving 1500 extra armor hp, and x-large shield booster giving extra 750 shield hp
Because, active reps work better when there's a larger buffer, cause they have more time to boost before ship pops. |
Naomi Wildfire
Amarr
Spricer
Raiden. |
Posted - 2011.03.18 23:00:00 - [ 18]
you can always combine tanks, Armor buffer with a single active rep works well. |
Aamrr |
Posted - 2011.03.18 23:03:00 - [ 19]
Well, you could start by stacking penalizing them.
Right now, three trimarks give a 52.1% increase in hp. With stacking penalties, that'd be reduced to 47.9%
That's a start, at least? |
Blnukem 192
Amarr
The Imperial Fedaykin
|
Posted - 2011.03.18 23:09:00 - [ 20]
Since we're all nerfing things, nerf speed and active tanks while you're at it.
|
Ephemeron
Caldari Provisions
|
Posted - 2011.03.18 23:15:00 - [ 21]
Originally by: Blnukem 192
Since we're all nerfing things, nerf speed and active tanks while you're at it.
Speed was already nerfed significantly a while back, in case you don't remember. buffer tanking has been getting nothing but boosts since the game started, continuously boosted active tanking was boosted mostly for shields, with introduction of greatly superior faction boosters, invulnerability fields, and Crystal set. Active armor tanking received much weaker boosts for some reason CCP believes that it's perfectly fine for high end shield tanking to be 2-3 times superior to high end armor tanking |
Michael J Fox |
Posted - 2011.03.19 00:28:00 - [ 22]
Originally by: Blnukem 192
Since we're all nerfing things, nerf speed and active tanks while you're at it.
as noted above this has been done: polycarbs used to be on everything then they swung the bat, active tanking is pretty much pointless within the modern pvp environment. idk, id just like to see what someone else said above - where you actually need to stay on top of cap and positioning as opposed to saying "my Geddon had 930k ehp"  |
Naomi Wildfire
Amarr
Spricer
Raiden. |
Posted - 2011.03.19 01:38:00 - [ 23]
Quote:
active tanking is pretty much pointless within the modern pvp environment.
You have absolutely no clue |
CCP Spitfire
C C P
C C P Alliance |
Posted - 2011.03.19 07:56:00 - [ 24]
Moved from 'EVE General Discussion'.
|
Antihrist Pripravnik
Scorpion Road Industry
|
Posted - 2011.03.19 09:02:00 - [ 25]
Originally by: Voogru
Yes.
Nerf the buffer tank so that my 8x Tobias Tempest Tribal Issue insta-pops every type of battleship.
You don't need all that... Just a T2 fitted artie Maelstrom. In one word: nerf buffer = boost Minmatar and make them the only viable PvP race. |
Fon Revedhort
Monks of War
DarkSide. |
Posted - 2011.03.19 10:50:00 - [ 26]
LSE and 1600mm plate should have their PG requirements at least doubled. Comparing plate of 800mm to 1600mm one has always made me giggle - what the hell, HP bonus is twice as big while PG needs increase merely by 2.5 times. Let's try applying the very same basis to armour reps and shield boosters then  Don't even get me started on rigs. Those have been just FUBAR from the very introduction. Also the idea you can make PvP more fun by prolonging it is nothing but sheer nonsense. How about playing ut3 at 10% of its actual speed?  Face-melting DPS and short fights will always give an edge to tactical moves for small-scale PvP - moves like splitting the enemy up work especially great. But CCP isn't that interested in giving players the opportunity to excel in skill. Everyone wants to think he's good at PvP and CCP wants to have the customers pleased, hence the pro-blob approach. P.S. boosting active tanks is a no-no solution. That's like dealing with plague by infecting all around you. Active tanks are fine, damage is fine. (E)HP values are messed up. |
Jim Tudeski |
Posted - 2011.03.19 11:12:00 - [ 27]
Originally by: Voogru
Yes.
Nerf the buffer tank so that my 8x Tobias Tempest Tribal Issue insta-pops every type of battleship.
WTB that Tempest Tribal Issue. My EFT warrioring only gave me 19k Volley :( [Tempest Tribal Issue, ALPHA?!] Tobias' Modified Gyrostabilizer Tobias' Modified Gyrostabilizer Tobias' Modified Gyrostabilizer Tobias' Modified Gyrostabilizer Tobias' Modified Gyrostabilizer Tobias' Modified Gyrostabilizer Tobias' Modified Gyrostabilizer Cormack's Modified Tracking Computer Cormack's Modified Tracking Computer Cormack's Modified Tracking Computer Cormack's Modified Tracking Computer Cormack's Modified Tracking Computer Setele's Modified Tracking Computer Tobias' Modified 1400mm Howitzer Artillery, Domination EMP L Tobias' Modified 1400mm Howitzer Artillery, Domination EMP L Tobias' Modified 1400mm Howitzer Artillery, Domination EMP L Tobias' Modified 1400mm Howitzer Artillery, Domination EMP L Tobias' Modified 1400mm Howitzer Artillery, Domination EMP L Tobias' Modified 1400mm Howitzer Artillery, Domination EMP L Tobias' Modified 1400mm Howitzer Artillery, Domination EMP L Tobias' Modified 1400mm Howitzer Artillery, Domination EMP L Large Ancillary Current Router II [empty rig slot] [empty rig slot] Originally by: Antihrist Pripravnik
Originally by: Voogru
Yes.
Nerf the buffer tank so that my 8x Tobias Tempest Tribal Issue insta-pops every type of battleship.
You don't need all that... Just a T2 fitted artie Maelstrom.
In one word: nerf buffer = boost Minmatar and make them the only viable PvP race.
Isn't that all they do anyway in the Northern Carebear fleets? |
The Djego
Minmatar
Hellequin Inc. |
Posted - 2011.03.19 11:15:00 - [ 28]
Originally by: Fon Revedhort
Also the idea you can make PvP more fun by prolonging it is nothing but sheer nonsense. How about playing ut3 at 10% of its actual speed?
Face-melting DPS and short fights will always give an edge to tactical moves for small-scale PvP - moves like splitting the enemy up work especially great.
But CCP isn't that interested in giving players the opportunity to excel in skill. Everyone wants to think he's good at PvP and CCP wants to have the customers pleased, hence the pro-blob approach.
Pretty much this. |
Mr Kidd |
Posted - 2011.03.19 11:21:00 - [ 29]
Edited by: Mr Kidd on 19/03/2011 11:22:50
I'm Gallente. The buffer tank is about all I have going for me in this game. So, if you want to nerf my buff, I'll raise you a passive shield tank nerf and a cap requirement for missile launchers. |
Pod Amarr |
Posted - 2011.03.19 11:28:00 - [ 30]
Is it time to nerf buffer?
Yes but lets not go crazy.
First
Slave implants remove their effects from capital class.
2nd
1600mm plate increase the fitting req. and mass penalty.
3rd
people will hate me for this but redo rigs that you can fit only one per type. you could fit 1 extender and 1 shoeld hardening rig for each dmg type but the times of the triple trimarks or extenders are gone. With this limitation in place you could even buff the stats of these rigs.
Also introduce XL rigs needed for capitals with NO trimarks or extender equivalent. |
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