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C C P
C C P Alliance
Posted - 2011.03.11 11:16:00 - [1]
 

Lead GM Grimmi and the Customer Support team have updated the reimbursement policies and provide you with a detailed guide on the new process. Full details can be seen here.

andeira
Posted - 2011.03.11 11:38:00 - [2]
 

Edited by: andeira on 11/03/2011 11:38:39
thanks for listing them all usefull info for me (I petition almost never and now even less probably)
Quote:

3. Missions

2. Reimbursements will not be granted in instances where:

c. A mission objective is destroyed or stolen by another player.


Is this a recent change? I have heard from a few people last month that got there mission reset cause they shot the objective. (activating guns instead of tractorbeam)

edit: lol one sec to slow to be first

Killerhound
Caldari
Free-Space-Ranger
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2011.03.11 11:40:00 - [3]
 

Guys, why dont you get it, the damsel is to be safed since its a damsel in distress. Anything else would be cruel.

Thx @gm for clarifications

Grek Forto
Crosshair Corp
Posted - 2011.03.11 11:48:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: andeira
Edited by: andeira on 11/03/2011 11:38:39
thanks for listing them all usefull info for me (I petition almost never and now even less probably)
Quote:

3. Missions

2. Reimbursements will not be granted in instances where:

c. A mission objective is destroyed or stolen by another player.


Is this a recent change? I have heard from a few people last month that got there mission reset cause they shot the objective. (activating guns instead of tractorbeam)

edit: lol one sec to slow to be first


If you believe it was like that before I am sure that it was just a clarification on their standpoint towards the issue. Smile

Estel Arador
Posted - 2011.03.11 11:49:00 - [5]
 

Are there stats on reimbursement petitions, such as what percentage gets declined, and how much time is spend on reimbursement petitions compared to other petitions or petition categories?

Mashie Saldana
Minmatar
Veto Corp
Posted - 2011.03.11 11:56:00 - [6]
 

In before the log jokes. Laughing

Kalidia
Posted - 2011.03.11 12:05:00 - [7]
 

"3. Ships destroyed by use of the "self destruct" feature or any action initiated by the owner (including but not limited to: recycling, trashing, etc.), whether intentionally or accidentally, cannot be reimbursed."

"1. Items recycled accidentally may be reimbursed on a case-by-case basis, but only if the minerals received have not been moved from the original recycling station and the original resulting "stacks" of minerals have been retained (thus not merged with other stacks of minerals or broken up into smaller stacks)."

So wich is it, u need to choose one

Demitrios
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Atlas.
Posted - 2011.03.11 12:08:00 - [8]
 

Edited by: Demitrios on 11/03/2011 12:08:31
More swearing in dev blogs please, it clearly shows the professionalism of the company you are representing.

**** **** **** **** bastard.

EDIT: oh i see bastard is allowed, interesting :P

ArchenTheGreat
Caldari
Pulsar Nebulah
Army of Lovers.
Posted - 2011.03.11 12:12:00 - [9]
 

Edited by: ArchenTheGreat on 11/03/2011 12:13:17
I think you should clarify this one:
"a. Any losses attributable to errors in the EVE client may not be eligible for reimbursement."

I think where is a clear (and confirmed by CCP) bug in EVE client you should reimburse. I know why you put it there but it's too broad statement.

Originally by: Demitrios

More swearing in dev blogs please, it clearly shows the professionalism of the company you are representing.


Shut up. EVE is a game for mature people.

*Trolling removed. Zymurgist

Batolemaeus
Caldari
Free-Space-Ranger
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2011.03.11 12:13:00 - [10]
 

Quote:
Hacking is any unauthorized access to another person's account, by illegal means or not.


No, it is not. Please use a fitting term instead of misusing a word.

Mike deVoid
Firebird Squadron
Terra-Incognita
Posted - 2011.03.11 12:17:00 - [11]
 

Can you let us know what logs you have available? Because although requiring evidence in server-side logs is completely reasonable, we sometimes have to take on trust that no such evidence exists when in fact it may be the case that the GM cannot find it or is looking in the wrong log because of poor game knowledge about a specific area.

TL:DR. Tell us what logs are available to GMs.

Ifly Uwalk
Caldari
Concentrated Evil
Posted - 2011.03.11 12:21:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Kalidia
So wich is it, u need to choose one

Why? Recycled ships don't get reimbursed, recycled items do. Ships != items.

Demitrios
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Atlas.
Posted - 2011.03.11 12:27:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: ArchenTheGreat
Edited by: ArchenTheGreat on 11/03/2011 12:13:17
I think you should clarify this one:
"a. Any losses attributable to errors in the EVE client may not be eligible for reimbursement."

I think where is a clear (and confirmed by CCP) bug in EVE client you should reimburse. I know why you put it there but it's too broad statement.

Originally by: Demitrios

More swearing in dev blogs please, it clearly shows the professionalism of the company you are representing.


Shut up. EVE is a game for mature people.

*Trolling removed. Zymurgist


Next time you are in a shop and the person serving you tells you to go **** your self, remember that life is for mature people.

Ban Doga
Posted - 2011.03.11 12:36:00 - [14]
 

Edited by: Ban Doga on 11/03/2011 12:43:13
Quote:
3. Missions

Missions may be offered by either NPC agents or as courier missions created by other players.

1. Mission collateral may be required for some missions. This collateral may be refunded in cases where GM investigation shows the mission creation was incomplete or if the mission was impossible to complete within normal gameplay parameters available to the player.


Does that mean if I accept a courier contract with 5 billion ISK collateral to transport something to Jove space I can get that reimbursed?
How about a transport to a player outpost that I won't get docking right for?


Got another question:
Quote:
3. Reimbursement will only be granted if a loss is attributable to a bug or server error.

a. Any losses attributable to errors in the EVE client may not be eligible for reimbursement.

Quote:
Assets lost to a scam may only be reimbursed if the scammer used a verified bug to hide his intentions to scam.


Is an error something else than a bug?
I'm not sure, could you explain if those two rule contradict each other and if not, why a loss due to a bug used for scamming does not fall under "any losses attributable to errors in the EVE client"?

ArchenTheGreat
Caldari
Pulsar Nebulah
Army of Lovers.
Posted - 2011.03.11 12:37:00 - [15]
 

Edited by: ArchenTheGreat on 11/03/2011 12:37:37
Originally by: Demitrios

Next time you are in a shop and the person serving you tells you to go **** your self, remember that life is for mature people.


I never encountered situation when CCP told someone to **** yourself. They sometimes use loose language but do not insult people.

Again, don't be such a pussie. HTFU.

Kalidia
Posted - 2011.03.11 12:42:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Ifly Uwalk
Originally by: Kalidia
So wich is it, u need to choose one

Why? Recycled ships don't get reimbursed, recycled items do. Ships != items.



Then tell me, why should there be diffrent rules between ships and items? Just doesnt make sense.

Demitrios
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Atlas.
Posted - 2011.03.11 12:44:00 - [17]
 

Edited by: Demitrios on 11/03/2011 12:48:01
Originally by: ArchenTheGreat
Edited by: ArchenTheGreat on 11/03/2011 12:37:37
Originally by: Demitrios

Next time you are in a shop and the person serving you tells you to go **** your self, remember that life is for mature people.


I never encountered situation when CCP told someone to **** yourself. They sometimes use loose language but do not insult people.

Again, don't be such a pussie. HTFU.


I dont need to htfu, thanks.

Maybe you are the one that needs to chill out, After all, its just a game.

Maybe next time you should read what someone posts, and not what you think someone posted, as i said nothing about how naughty ccp are for swearing.

Also, i welcome you to swear the next time you put in a petition, GM's love that and will slap you down for it.

Selene D'Celeste
Caldari
The D'Celeste Trading Company
ISK Six
Posted - 2011.03.11 12:50:00 - [18]
 

It looks like there are some more edits that need to be made =D

Demitrios
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Atlas.
Posted - 2011.03.11 12:57:00 - [19]
 

Its better than making a new post, everytime you want to add something.

Krathos Morpheus
Legion Infernal
Posted - 2011.03.11 13:03:00 - [20]
 

Quote:
3. Any assets sold to another player will not be returned to the original owner; however, any ISK gained from the sale may be transferred to the original owner of the items instead on a case-by-case basis.

4. Reprocessed assets cannot be restored to prior status.
Not nice of you to clearly show the hacker how to make maximum damage/get away with some items. Now anyone accessing another player account knows what to do to get around reimbursement. Facepalm.

Malovich
Caldari
Posted - 2011.03.11 13:04:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: CCP Policy
1. Items recycled accidentally may be reimbursed on a case-by-case basis, but only if the minerals received have not been moved from the original recycling station and the original resulting "stacks" of minerals have been retained (thus not merged with other stacks of minerals or broken up into smaller stacks).


From what I observe, the client auto-stacks minerals from reprocessing with any currently existing stacks of minerals. Unless that's an option to shut off that stacking somewhere (cba to look to for it atm) or that part of the policy is awkwardly written, it does seem rather poor form to have the client's own functionality make a reimbursement request impossible under this policy.

As I read it, if I had a random unit of trit sitting around and accidentally reprocessed an officer module, I couldn't get that reimbursed since it was merged with another stack of minerals by the client without my intervention. I could be reading it wrong and what CCP means is "you haven't messed with the stacks at all since reprocessing, but it's fine if they were merged with ones you already had initially", but I don't think that's what the words on the page say at the moment. Some clarification seems needed on that point.

Granted, with the new icons on faction and deadspace stuff I find it a lot harder to even make such mistakes (thanks for those by the way), but if you could see an accident coming most people would just avoid it in the first place.

Thanks to Grimmi and the GM team for the update and the other work the GMs do for Eve, even if we don't always like what they have tell us.

Vuk Lau
4S Corporation
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2011.03.11 13:35:00 - [22]
 

Quote:
5. Any losses of any kind resulting from a large-scale player engagement are not covered by this reimbursement policy.


Pathetic altering of Reimbursement policies to cover your inability to do your job related to fleet fights, because its just easier to send generic reply to hundreds of players instead of actually doing your job - to provide customer support.




Ariane VoxDei
Posted - 2011.03.11 13:49:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Malovich
Originally by: CCP Policy
1. Items recycled accidentally may be reimbursed on a case-by-case basis, but only if the minerals received have not been moved from the original recycling station and the original resulting "stacks" of minerals have been retained (thus not merged with other stacks of minerals or broken up into smaller stacks).


From what I observe, the client auto-stacks minerals from reprocessing with any currently existing stacks of minerals.

Yep, it does.

And how does this work if you were recycling a pile of ore and accidentally included some modules that should not have been selected?
Is the claim invalid due to being part of a ore pile.

Perhaps more worrying, does this mean that you are in fact not capable of tracing mineral properly if they "disappear" into other stacks? Sounds like a freaking huge abyssal gate for mineral "laundering", when combined with malicious intent for RMT.

Also. "2.c" no help if : "A mission objective is destroyed or stolen by another player."

You've got to be kidding.
That means any mission where you have to turn in any kind of item.
all Mining missions
all courier missions
quite a number of combat missions - its not just Damsel in distress.
Its also things like: smuggler interception, unauthorized military precense, intercept the saboteurs, ...
In L4 you rarely have the luxury of being in pickup range of the ship(s) that drop the objective, so anyone waltzing in in a mobile ship and engages, destroys/loots the objective, can now REALLY do some damage.
They could before, and that was bad enough, but at least then you could go through the process of getting the item back and avoid the the standing hit.
Paradise for determined griefers.

Valeo Galaem
New Eden Advanced Reconnaissance Unit
Sentient World Observation and Response Directive
Posted - 2011.03.11 13:55:00 - [24]
 

These seem inconsistent - intentional?

Originally by: 2. Lost Ships
3. Ships destroyed by use of the "self destruct" feature or any action initiated by the owner (including but not limited to: recycling, trashing, etc.), whether intentionally or accidentally, cannot be reimbursed.

Originally by: 4. Recycled Items
1. Items recycled accidentally may be reimbursed on a case-by-case basis, but only if the minerals received have not been moved from the original recycling station and the original resulting "stacks" of minerals have been retained (thus not merged with other stacks of minerals or broken up into smaller stacks).

Originally by: 9. Hacking & Account Transfers
4. Reprocessed assets cannot be restored to prior status.


So if your items are reprocessed, you can get them back, but not if they are ships, and not if they were reprocessed by a hacker, correct? New rules also say nothing about accidentally trashing items.

Ishina Fel
Caldari
Terra Incognita
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2011.03.11 13:56:00 - [25]
 

I really think there should be one additional line in the policy:

"All supercapital ships are exempt from reimbursement for any reason."

schwar2ss
Caldari
Madhatters Inc.
Posted - 2011.03.11 14:09:00 - [26]
 

Quote:
If we can verify the cause to be a bug or server issue using server side logs, we'll reimburse.


Oh the logs, they show... *scnr*

Anyway, did you improve logging? What about LogServer logs?

Vuk Lau
4S Corporation
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2011.03.11 14:10:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: Ishina Fel
I really think there should be one additional line in the policy:

"All supercapital ships are exempt from reimbursement for any reason."



Why?
Because IRC doesnt have one?

Vuk Lau
4S Corporation
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2011.03.11 15:29:00 - [28]
 

Quote:
We approach each petition with the mindset of trying to find a reason to fulfill the player's claim, but if there is no verification to be had we will most likely have to say no. This is what causes the most friction and this is why we feel that our reimbursement policy needs to be well known to our players, as well as the reasoning behind it.



Ok ok, this and using word which starts on S and ends with T in the devblog made me realize this devblog is actually a troll.

9/10 you almost got me.

Jovan Geldon
Gallente
Lead Farmers
Kill It With Fire
Posted - 2011.03.11 15:51:00 - [29]
 

Edited by: Jovan Geldon on 11/03/2011 15:51:20
inb4 nullsec bears whinging that they can't get their blob-mobiles reimburse-

Never mind, too late.


Originally by: devblog
Mission collateral may be required for some missions. This collateral may be refunded in cases where GM investigation shows the mission creation was incomplete or if the mission was impossible to complete within normal gameplay parameters available to the player.


So does this mean the end of the "courier contract to player-owned station you can't dock in" scam?

Matalino
Posted - 2011.03.11 16:03:00 - [30]
 

Edited by: Matalino on 11/03/2011 16:06:05
Originally by: Ban Doga
Does that mean if I accept a courier contract with 5 billion ISK collateral to transport something to Jove space I can get that reimbursed?
How about a transport to a player outpost that I won't get docking right for?
Courier missions to player outposts CAN be completed using normal game mechanics. You have the ability to avoid the scam using regular game mechanics. No refund!

Selecting a courier contract to a station where you do not have docking rights is no different than selecting a contract where you do not have sufficient cargo capacity. Just because you personally cannot complete the mission because of your personal limitations does not mean that the contract cannot be completed through the use of normal game mechanics.


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