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Roux Michon
Posted - 2011.03.09 21:58:00 - [1]
 

Hello, it was suggested to me that I should join EVE Uni... today they denied me and I admit my feelings are a bit hurt over the whole thing.

Back in 2006 I attended the Las Vegas EVE Meetup, I had been playing EVE for about 2 weeks. I met up with a very good corp IRL and was invited to join, I went with them and ended up in a corp that was way too advanced for me in 0.0 space.

Since then Ive quit several times, and 99% of the time my account has been active I have just been sitting in a station gaining skills while I played other games.

I made two alts and sold them for ISK a few years ago... mostly miners and R&D skill people.

So I have roughly 21m SP, almost 3bil ISK and next to no game experience whatsoever.

Id like to go back to my original corp, but I do not want to feel like a leech or a burden if/when I go back to them.

So I am at a loss on what to do at this point, do I just go back to the station and mine and do some missions?

Are there any other corps besides Eve-University that offer education and experience in many different aspects of EVE? I really had my heart set on learning with them.

Now Im just lost, so what should I do now? Confused

mkmin
Posted - 2011.03.09 22:07:00 - [2]
 

My advice is always to find a corp that's doing what you want to do, and ask to do it with them. Educational corps are fine, but will only get you so far. Even experienced corps will often recognize the need for new blood.

Lately, I've personally been doing some solo work building my assets. At my char age I've spent so much time running corp/alliance stuff that my own assets were pretty lame.

Everyone has their own preferences and attitudes, but I prefer to research a game aspect on my own and go out and do it and then teach it. I find figuring something out rewarding in itself. Don't be afraid to join any corp, even a "bad" experience is educational and can lead you to new areas of the game. Just don't risk more than you're willing to lose.

Leeroy McJenkins
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.03.09 22:48:00 - [3]
 

Originally by: mkmin

Lately, I've personally been doing some solo work building my assets. At my char age I've spent so much time running corp/alliance stuff that my own assets were pretty lame.



Posting alt confirmed? Rolling Eyes

To OP: We are newb friendly, much of the Cluster F*** coalition we blobbed the mighty IT Alliance with are newish toons (looks at TEST) contact me in-game for more information.

mkmin
Posted - 2011.03.09 22:55:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: Leeroy McJenkins
Originally by: mkmin

Lately, I've personally been doing some solo work building my assets. At my char age I've spent so much time running corp/alliance stuff that my own assets were pretty lame.



Posting alt confirmed? Rolling Eyes

To OP: We are newb friendly, much of the Cluster F*** coalition we blobbed the mighty IT Alliance with are newish toons (looks at TEST) contact me in-game for more information.


This is not the place to recruit. Try the recruitment forums.
(to the OP, I'm not sure I'd trust someone who spams recruitment ads outside of the recruitment forums/channels. But yes it would definitely be a learning experience.)

And yes, this is most definitely and unashamedly my forum alt.

Mister Rocknrolla
Posted - 2011.03.09 22:59:00 - [5]
 


Take a look at Agony Unleashed. I took a couple of their PvP classes. The bonus is you can work with some folks from active corps.


Latrodanes
Independent Combat Support Services
Posted - 2011.03.10 00:36:00 - [6]
 

You are not alone. I once applied to EvE Uni and was denied, probably for the exact same reason as you. Character was too far along the SP ladder, despite me the player having little non-carebear, in-game experience. I will echo the other replies, i.e. seek out corps that appear to have similar goals and active players in your TZ. Remember that interviews should be two-way, so ask recruiters a lot of questions before you jump. Many corps have a wide range of experience and should do so in order to stay fresh as older players move on.

Whatever you do, stop playing this game solo. I am and frankly it sucks.

Alotta Baggage
Amarr
Imperial Shipment
Posted - 2011.03.10 05:53:00 - [7]
 

Make an alt, learn from Eve Uni, apply knowledge to main, possibly profit Very Happy

Hakkar'al Gallente
Posted - 2011.03.10 07:58:00 - [8]
 

Yep one way is to apply Eve Uni with an alt (unless they check it up and think you're a spy and deny you for that reason Very Happy)

Recruitment forums ftw really. It's always a little bit of a risk joining an unknown group, so don't advertise your isk too publicly. (Or the results in the rouge corp may also be educational Confused)

Deverth
Posted - 2011.03.10 11:44:00 - [9]
 

Edited by: Deverth on 10/03/2011 11:44:59
Could give RvB a try good place to start.

http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1470707&page=2

Dian'h Might
Minmatar
Cash and Cargo Liberators Incorporated
Posted - 2011.03.10 16:55:00 - [10]
 

There's no reason you can't learn to play eve on your own or with a group of people equally as new as you. In fact, that's probably even preferable to joining eve uni. Everyone I knew who went through there was taught how to play eve like a mindless drone, and either had to unlearn that later or got bored and quit.

CCP Adida


C C P
C C P Alliance
Posted - 2011.03.10 22:08:00 - [11]
 

I would definitely check out the recruitment forums. There are a lot of corporations out there looking for new players. Might take a couple of EVE Mails or in game chats but I'm sure you will find the corporation that's right for you.

Roux Michon
Posted - 2011.03.11 06:39:00 - [12]
 

Edited by: Roux Michon on 11/03/2011 06:43:33
Edited by: Roux Michon on 11/03/2011 06:43:04
Originally by: Alotta Baggage
Make an alt, learn from Eve Uni, apply knowledge to main, possibly profit Very Happy


Meh, I don't think I should have to rely on dishonest tactics to learn the aspects of the game. I am not a dishonest person and don't fancy turning into one just to learn the game.

This whole thing caught me on a bad day IRL wise, I'm quite a bit better today and now just exploring my options with a certain reserved detachment :)

Originally by: CCP Adida
I would definitely check out the recruitment forums. There are a lot of corporations out there looking for new players. Might take a couple of EVE Mails or in game chats but I'm sure you will find the corporation that's right for you.


Adida, thank you for your attention and advice, it means a lot and I appreciate it. I have a corp I can join, but they are very advanced and I feel they are beyond me as far as game experience. I wanted to join Eve Uni so that I could go back to that corp eventually and be an asset with some actual game experience.

I am appealing my application denial with Eve University, hopefully something comes of that. Im not burning any bridges. :)

On a side note Im about to start level 3 missions which should give my little drake a run for its money. I have always felt that EVE was one of the most advanced MMOs out there with one of the best communities, however I have found it difficult to get over 'playing a ship'.

I am very surprised how much CCP continues to innovate the world of EVE, the news of Ambulation and Planetary Interaction are what brought me back into trying things in EVE again. The news of Dust and such I find amazing as well.

Hopefully I find some game experience and a positive learning corporation soon.

Alotta Baggage
Amarr
Imperial Shipment
Posted - 2011.03.11 08:30:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Roux Michon
Edited by: Roux Michon on 11/03/2011 06:43:33
Edited by: Roux Michon on 11/03/2011 06:43:04
Originally by: Alotta Baggage
Make an alt, learn from Eve Uni, apply knowledge to main, possibly profit Very Happy


Meh, I don't think I should have to rely on dishonest tactics to learn the aspects of the game. I am not a dishonest person and don't fancy turning into one just to learn the game.




Not going to get very far in Eve with that kind of attitude Neutral

Claus Krobotkin
Caldari
Perkone
Posted - 2011.03.11 10:37:00 - [14]
 

The recruitment forums were good for me, put up some fairly harsh criteria for what i wanted, and i got a good few options emailed to me in and out of game.

Some decent people play this game :)

Claus

Dasola
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.03.11 14:57:00 - [15]
 

If your new to this game, please dont join super advanced corporation. Why? Becouse you will soon enough feel left behind, since you cant yet do wha they are doing...

Rather try find nice corporation that has also new players. Plenty of those arround. That way you dont feel like lastplace holder all the time and can enjoy game more.

Mashie Saldana
Minmatar
Veto Corp
Posted - 2011.03.11 16:22:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Leeroy McJenkins
To OP: We are newb friendly, much of the Cluster F*** coalition we blobbed the mighty IT Alliance with are newish toons (looks at TEST) contact me in-game for more information.

And anyone considering joining Goons should google for "goonswarm recruitment scam" first.

Jaak 242
Posted - 2011.03.13 11:19:00 - [17]
 

I tried the Corporation Window Recruitment tab for the first time recently. It's kind of interesting. You can filter by corp size for instance, and faction I think. You might want to give that a look. No spam.

Lost Greybeard
Gallente
Posted - 2011.03.14 14:42:00 - [18]
 

Eh, join an arbitrary high sec/low sec corp (you can find a billion of them in the recruitment channel) and just do your own thing PvE-wise while pulling people from your corp/alliance chat to do PvP. Learning by doing is way the hell better than learning by someone with no life giving you training sessions.

If you need guidance to a corp/alliance with varied interests and deep 0.0 is not to your taste, maybe Omega Vector over in Gallente space? They can be somewhat risk-averse, but they do have member corps that specialize in basically every aspect of the game and their officer corps is more than happy to help people figure out what they're doing if necessary. There are likely a thousand other alliances in the same position, but they're the one that comes to mind.

Bomberlocks
Minmatar
CTRL-Q
Posted - 2011.03.14 14:52:00 - [19]
 

Red vs. Blue. You'll learn to PvP in stuff you can afford to lose.

LucasSnow
Gallente
The Valinor Initiative
Posted - 2011.03.14 18:43:00 - [20]
 

It's seems for as helpful as Eve Uni is, they are just as unhelpful to those who really need it. The good news is you don't need to be in Eve Uni to learn from them. Their public channel is open to everyone and you can ask questions there and usually get good answers. You can also down load every single class they were going to teach you and just do it yourself, no reason to join them. It's what I am doing atm. Links to class downloads below.

http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Eve_University_Class_Library


Roux Michon
Posted - 2011.03.15 04:35:00 - [21]
 

Edited by: Roux Michon on 15/03/2011 04:37:20
Originally by: LucasSnow
It's seems for as helpful as Eve Uni is, they are just as unhelpful to those who really need it.



That seems to be my impression as well. My appeal was denied even though they said my interview wasn't done/handled properly. I was told the 'straw' that lead to my being denied is that in my initial interview I didnt give them the API key to an inactive account that I made and dont even use and the character on there has never even left the station she was born in. Giving them the full key to that account during my appeal made no difference.

There was no reason for me to be denied, I was as honest and forthcoming as possible. They are either overly paranoid, or they are not nearly as "neutral" as they say they are. Either way, they turned away someone who would have been an asset to them.

I have gotten in contact with my old corp which I wanted to rejoin after learning at Eve-Uni, so we shall see what they want me to do... if they turn me away I will prob just stop playing again.

Lady Go Diveher
The Independent Troll Society
Posted - 2011.03.15 15:14:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Roux Michon
There was no reason for me to be denied, I was as honest and forthcoming as possible. They are either overly paranoid, or they are not nearly as "neutral" as they say they are. Either way, they turned away someone who would have been an asset to them.


The 3000 word "rules" page (E-Uni Rules) or two week recruitment process didn't give that away?

Seriously, you're better off without them. Their "by the numbers carebear" version of EvE is a mere shadow of what the game can offer. As for their PVP training? Teaching blob warfare (Example) whilst allowing failfits to fly (Example) seems counter-productive to the entire game, when done on their scale.

If you want to learn PVP, RvB or some FW will suit you well

If you want to learn to mission, try it with some friends and use eve-survival

If you want to learn industry, join an indy corp.

All in all, they can't offer you anything other than some free skillbooks (as if anyone has difficulty affording those) and the opportunity to make friends. Which is just human nature and nothing to do with them Wink

Dian'h Might
Minmatar
Cash and Cargo Liberators Incorporated
Posted - 2011.03.16 04:44:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Lady Go Diveher
Seriously, you're better off without them. Their "by the numbers carebear" version of EvE is a mere shadow of what the game can offer.
This tbh.

Estel Arador
Posted - 2011.03.16 07:23:00 - [24]
 

I like how Lady Go Diveher complains about the number of rules while at the same time apparently wanting more rules governing fleet compositions/sizes and ships.
Fact is, the Uni has something like 1600 members and every single one of those members - new and inexperienced or not, is welcome to go out with fleets. That can result in a rather large fleet yes.

It seems not everyone likes what the Uni does, that's fine. I do however, so much so that after having won EVE I am now sharing my 5-year experience with Uni members.

I encourage everyone to have a look at the Uni Wiki and make up their own mind about the Uni.

Toshiro GreyHawk
Posted - 2011.03.16 12:44:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Mashie Saldana
Originally by: Leeroy McJenkins
To OP: We are newb friendly, much of the Cluster F*** coalition we blobbed the mighty IT Alliance with are newish toons (looks at TEST) contact me in-game for more information.

And anyone considering joining Goons should google for "goonswarm recruitment scam" first.



Goon recruitment policy enforced.


As far as the Goons go - my understanding is this:

The website Something Awful has or is a community of people who refer to themselves as goons. Some group from that community, as a community, will sometimes join a game and play it together. Thus - the Goons in EVE are NOT an EVE community - but an external community that plays EVE.

What I've read and seen in some of the video presentations they've done - is that to be able to join them - you have to join the website community first - then - as a participant in that community - you might be able to join them in playing a game such as EVE.

In line with that policy - which I understand they are fairly open about on their web site (but haven't confirmed it myself) - they will also scam people as in the video above. As scamming is an accepted part of EVE game play - they're doing nothing against the rules of this game.

They do however seem to be a community of their own - that isn't much interested in joining in any of the communities of the games they play.

If you'll note the description of Something Awful - it is described as a comedy web site - and the goons seem to be set on having fun - at the expense of the communities of the games they play.



Now - one real advantage of this type of a recruitment policy is that they have to already know you from outside the game before they'll let you in. This makes them much less vulnerable to spies, while they are free to spy on other corporations. It also has the advantage of having a relatively large group of people to draw on.

The goons aren't the only group of people who have come to EVE as a group. There are any number of people who are friends IRL - but - these people don't have the numbers to draw on that the goons do - so their very origins limit their size - when the goons doesn't.



As to EVE University - there are any number of ways to play the game - which had advantages and disadvantages. It seems they have their way of doing it and have created an organization specifically designed to teach other players how to play their way. I would expect to find people who don't agree with anyone elses way of doing things. So - it's not to my mind a question of them doing things the right way or the wrong way - but simply their way ... which is pretty much what everyone else does.

As to their paranoia? They have a big profile and cater to noobs so they are constantly attacked both overtly and covertly. Try to set up anything in EVE that helps other people play the game - and some people will try to destroy it. That's just the way EVE is. So are you paranoid - if people really are out to get you?

They offer something - and they offer it under specific conditions. It's their corporation - they can run it however they want. If someone doesn't like the way they do things - then that someone has the option of going elsewhere.

Now ... I do not fit their recruitment profile - so I'm not going to try and join. But - I can respect what they try to do for the new people of this game, just as I do the other people and corporations that lend a hand to those starting out.


Whenever I've been rejected for something - I usually figure that - they know themselves better than I do. If they think I'd not fit in - then probably I wouldn't. I don't want to be part of something I don't fit in with - so they've done me a favor by not wasting my time. Better that than some of the false promises I've gotten.

*shrug*

.

Aderata Nonkin
Amarr
Posted - 2011.03.16 13:12:00 - [26]
 

As many others already have said, you'd be better of in some other corporation than EVE University. Frankly, they're a shadow of their former selves and these days they only promote their own egos through the various channels they have.
Some of the advice they have might be worth taking onboard but most of the time it's rubbish.

If I were you I'd go back to the old corporation, start anew and just plough on. The carebear we-love-u-all attitude of EVE Univ is something we all can live without.

Lady Go Diveher
The Independent Troll Society
Posted - 2011.03.16 15:15:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: Estel Arador
I like how Lady Go Diveher complains about the number of rules while at the same time apparently wanting more rules governing fleet compositions/sizes and ships.


If I were an FC of a 1600 member corp I would:

1) Make a list of fits to suit particular fleet roles on their site
2) Have a member pick one of these to fly and fit it out.
3) Have them join the fleet in the right wing / squad
4) Know where all my assets were in the fleet as a result, and their capabilities
5) ???
6) Win

They don't do any of this. They don't need to do any of this because they *mindlessly* blob.

If you actually want to teach fleet composition and fleet design then all of the above is essential training, not some half-assed rulesheet.

Rules that make sense should be there, but their list of asinine rules are nothing more than pointless.

Actually look at the rules. How many of them help the player? They're all a completely self interested list of conformities.

Quote:
All members must avoid exits which lead to Claimable NullSec, only making use of a wormhole leading to these regions in the event there are absolutely no alternatives, and must contact a Director via convo or forum PM before proceeding, then travel directly and immediately to the nearest authorised system without stopping.


Really? Last time I fell out of a hole into 0.0 I made some good friends and got blued. Guess they don't teach communication skills, then. v0v
Quote:
Missions, Ratting, Mining, Hauling and Exploration sites in known-space are prohibited


I guess d-scan and checking local doesn't exist, then.

Quote:
Faction ships and modules are prohibited at all times during war


Hi, I'm a Dramiel and can be of no use in PVP. Add to that their ban on SB's (really!?) and interdicors, and you're left with LOLBLOB again.

Quote:
Rigs are prohibited on Tech 1 frigates, destroyers and cruisers

Hi I'm a gimped Rupture. But don't worry, I follow the rules.

Quote:
If moving in any other ships, you must be travel fit until you reach your destination. This means all low-slots are filled with Warp Core Stabilizers and the mid-slots are filled with an appropriate shield buffer tank


Please fly a ship that can be locked and infini-pointed in 1 second by a Heavy Interdictor. We don't allow these ships (see above) so likely fail to grasp this is a very common mechanic.

I could go on all day.

They're acting like the big **** in the EvE universe because they have some recognition. With their "ranks" and the like I'd hope it was an RP group, but it's not. They really are that serious about their internet spaceships e-peen.

The whole thing reminds me of playing tree-house when I was 6 years old, and drawing up a charter of rules that made absolutely no sense, but were the best we could think of at the time.

No girls aloud.

KaarBaak
Minmatar
Seatec Astronomy
Posted - 2011.03.16 15:54:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: Lady Go Diveher
Originally by: Estel Arador
I like how Lady Go Diveher complains about the number of rules while at the same time apparently wanting more rules governing fleet compositions/sizes and ships.


If I were an FC of a 1600 member corp I would:

1) Make a list of fits to suit particular fleet roles on their site
2) Have a member pick one of these to fly and fit it out.
3) Have them join the fleet in the right wing / squad
4) Know where all my assets were in the fleet as a result, and their capabilities
5) ???
6) Win

They don't do any of this. They don't need to do any of this because they *mindlessly* blob.

If you actually want to teach fleet composition and fleet design then all of the above is essential training, not some half-assed rulesheet.

Rules that make sense should be there, but their list of asinine rules are nothing more than pointless.

Actually look at the rules. How many of them help the player? They're all a completely self interested list of conformities.

Quote:
All members must avoid exits which lead to Claimable NullSec, only making use of a wormhole leading to these regions in the event there are absolutely no alternatives, and must contact a Director via convo or forum PM before proceeding, then travel directly and immediately to the nearest authorised system without stopping.


Really? Last time I fell out of a hole into 0.0 I made some good friends and got blued. Guess they don't teach communication skills, then. v0v
Quote:
Missions, Ratting, Mining, Hauling and Exploration sites in known-space are prohibited


I guess d-scan and checking local doesn't exist, then.

Quote:
Faction ships and modules are prohibited at all times during war


Hi, I'm a Dramiel and can be of no use in PVP. Add to that their ban on SB's (really!?) and interdicors, and you're left with LOLBLOB again.

Quote:
Rigs are prohibited on Tech 1 frigates, destroyers and cruisers

Hi I'm a gimped Rupture. But don't worry, I follow the rules.

Quote:
If moving in any other ships, you must be travel fit until you reach your destination. This means all low-slots are filled with Warp Core Stabilizers and the mid-slots are filled with an appropriate shield buffer tank


Please fly a ship that can be locked and infini-pointed in 1 second by a Heavy Interdictor. We don't allow these ships (see above) so likely fail to grasp this is a very common mechanic.

I could go on all day.

They're acting like the big **** in the EvE universe because they have some recognition. With their "ranks" and the like I'd hope it was an RP group, but it's not. They really are that serious about their internet spaceships e-peen.

The whole thing reminds me of playing tree-house when I was 6 years old, and drawing up a charter of rules that made absolutely no sense, but were the best we could think of at the time.

No girls aloud.


Forgive my lack of ability to 'connect-the-dots.' Does this translate to "they're all about KB/KM stats?"

Other than encouraging/enforcing blob warfare, what is the purpose of the rules?


Lady Go Diveher
The Independent Troll Society
Posted - 2011.03.16 17:15:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: KaarBaak
Forgive my lack of ability to 'connect-the-dots.' Does this translate to "they're all about KB/KM stats?"

Other than encouraging/enforcing blob warfare, what is the purpose of the rules?


Their rationale is that "good" KB stats will "discourage wardecs."

Right.

Not to mention the current two campaigns they're fighting off are doing it BECAUSE it's a challenge. (Kudos to you guys, you're doing pretty well against the blob)

I can't really go into the in's and out's of why ... who knows? I'm guessing anyone who spends half their life and all their EvE time as a "recruitment officer" dealing out 2hour long interviews probably needs something in their life they feel they have some control over.

They're roleplaying out a real-world infrastructure in a videogame and making everyone that's sucked into thinking "it's the way to learn" suffer for it.

Estel Arador
Posted - 2011.03.16 17:17:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Lady Go Diveher
long post


All those rules might seem either too obvious or senseless to you as an experienced player, but they do protect newer players. New players don't have the 'common sense' experienced players have.
Remember the "fail-fit" Rifter you linked to above, that could easily have been a fail-fit Dramiel with faction modules. Because there are new players who think that selling a PLEX and getting the "best pvp-ship" is the fast-track to success in pvp (it's not).

I used to think the Uni had a lot of rules too, but having been on the inside for a couple of months now, I must say that they do seem to be making sense (not really that surprising, given that they have evolved throughout the Uni's 7-year history).


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