Posted - 2011.03.17 04:12:00 - [92]

 

Originally by: X Gallentius

---

They are risk-averse (and lazy) and no potential incentive will bring them to low sec.

---

Like I've said, I've been living in low-sec (Zirsem, Khanid) since the end of October. Maybe it's the part of space I chose to set up in, but the the 'incentive' to be there is so pitiful that I'm in the process of running my gear back to hi-sec. I earn more trading, manufacturing & running missions around Dodixie on an average day than I've earned on my best day in Khanid, and I do it with less hassle.
I haven't lost so much as a drone while living out there, and the local pirates have pretty much stopped hunting for me, but even without much of a PvP threat I see no reason to stay.

Posted - 2011.03.17 17:07:00 - [94]

 

Originally by: X Gallentius

---

What is the going isk/hour running missions in Dodixie?

---

With my **** poor pew pew skills (good drone, poor gunnery & no missile skills worth talking about), I'm probably doing about 30m/hr. Since the value of FN LPs float all over the place, it's kind of hard to nail down a real isk/hr number. Running missions is really just the gravy anyway.
Trade & manufacturing is my real deal. I generally see between 400m & 1b in trades a day in and around Dodixie when I keep up on my orders (gross trades). Depending on the spreads and volumes, I'll take 10-20% of that as profit, and float between 60% & 80% invested.
Just for context, unlike many players I don't run a string of alts or multi-box. I have the one main character that does whatever I do.

Since I've hauled almost everything out of Zirsem, I'll give Essence a try for a few weeks. There's nothing to loose there that I didn't risk in Zirsem. Having all those hi & lo-sec systems scattered together is gonna take some getting used to. With Zirsem being 14 jumps deep, you never had to think about what sec status you were in or jumping into; it's all low-sec out there.

Posted - 2011.03.17 17:23:00 - [96]

 

I think there's a L4 Q18 agent right next door to dodixie in auvergne. I had pretty poor isk/hour generation when I was pulling missions from the agent in IX-20. Serpentis loot and salvage was pretty poor too if I remember correctly.

Also, I'm all for people bringing a couple friends down to low sec to run missions. I promise, it's totally safe and I certainly won't bring any friends for your delicious Battleship KMs. Totally safe. Promise.

But all kidding aside, there are quality 20 agents in high sec. How does it make sense to risk losing your expensive mission runners to pirates for a lower quality agent? You can certainly make a case for level 5s and deadspace modules. But run-of-the-mill L4 missions?

Posted - 2011.03.17 18:19:00 - [98]

 

You will never get the die hard missioner or serious miner into lowsec without some very drastic changes, like changing it to 0.0 lite or back to highsec, so lets just forget about getting those people out here and focus on getting the people that are already curious about lowsec and just need a little incentive.

First off I think everyone agrees that the main risk of lowsec it getting forcefully pvped in your mission ship, whether it's on a gate, in a belt, or mission. And everyone knows that missions ships just can't compete with proper pvp ships.

You can't up the isk/lp rewards enough to get over that risk without making it more profitable than 0.0, and it really shouldn't be.

What you could do is make pvp fits more viable in missions while making missions a bit shorter to complete.
Try having rats that warp away unless they are pointed, and instead of having 500 rats to shoot, only have a small hand full of them that are significantly harder to kill.
On top of that make them warp off (or provide you with logistics, if sleepers can rep each other why not you) when more people enter the mission, that way when the pirates actually do show up you don't need to worry about extra rat aggro.
Why have to even go to stations to keep up with these missions, you grab the first one from a station then more show up like escalations do.

This will do to things (maybe more, who knows), it will allow people to defend themselves from pirates like me, and alowy pirates to make some isk on the side without having to have to have a highsec alt for missions (or however you make your isk)

Call them what you like search and destroy, bounty hunter missions, that makes no difference, just make them lowsec only.

Like said before, you will not get the risk adverse to enter lowsec, but this may give those who are on the edge that little nudge that they need to come out and enjoy themselves. And lets face it, more people in pvp ships means more people that get hooked on pvp, and thats just the kind of boost that lowsec could use.

I'm not saying this is going to fix lowsec, or even that lowsec needs fixing, it's just my thoughts on what may help get those people out here that already want to be here.

I'm sure there are problems with this idea, seeing as I just came up with it as I was typing it

Posted - 2011.03.17 19:00:00 - [100]

 

Originally by: equincu ocha

---

You will never get the die hard missioner or serious miner into lowsec without some very drastic changes, like changing it to 0.0 lite or back to highsec, so lets just forget about getting those people out here and focus on getting the people that are already curious about lowsec and just need a little incentive.

---

I absolutely agree. There are people in Rens who wouldn't jump to low-sec if you told them Natalie Portman was giving handjobs in Amamake. Keep in mind though, that these people are the ones who keep the empire economy rolling. If we force the industrialists, missioners, and whatever else out of empire it would have a resounding effect on the economy the whole galaxy over. Consider that most ships in low sec were purchased in empire and shipped in.

As I've said before, from pvp perspective, I'm pretty satisfied with low sec. I would love if the markets were a little fleshed out, but such is life. At least at the moment.

If the low sec markets were to be beefed up, I think it would have to be some kind of industry incentives. This would probably mean reworking mining, just because of the risk factor. Rather than risking hulks people would buy minerals in empire, ship them into low sec and produce there. The logistics of which would be a nightmare.

Your missioning changes wouldn't aid these particular goals as far as I can see, though I don't think you intended them to. People would buy their missioners in empire and "ninja mission." Also after risk factor is taken into account, and you consider the time spent dodging pirates, you're talking very hefty bounties per rat or insane LP rewards just to make it worth while.

And again, the problem with making cash in low sec is "why bother with low sec when 0.0 is safer and more profitable?"

Posted - 2011.03.17 19:38:00 - [102]

 

You've just stated that there are successful low sec mission runners and industrialists.

And you've stated that you need different strategies and tactics to make isk in low sec than you need in high sec.

Posted - 2011.03.17 19:46:00 - [104]

 

Originally by: Mister Smithington

---

I absolutely agree. There are people in Rens who wouldn't jump to low-sec if you told them Natalie Portman was giving handjobs in Amamake. Keep in mind though, that these people are the ones who keep the empire economy rolling. If we force the industrialists, missioners, and whatever else out of empire it would have a resounding effect on the economy the whole galaxy over. Consider that most ships in low sec were purchased in empire and shipped in.

As I've said before, from pvp perspective, I'm pretty satisfied with low sec. I would love if the markets were a little fleshed out, but such is life. At least at the moment.

If the low sec markets were to be beefed up, I think it would have to be some kind of industry incentives. This would probably mean reworking mining, just because of the risk factor. Rather than risking hulks people would buy minerals in empire, ship them into low sec and produce there. The logistics of which would be a nightmare.

Your missioning changes wouldn't aid these particular goals as far as I can see, though I don't think you intended them to. People would buy their missioners in empire and "ninja mission." Also after risk factor is taken into account, and you consider the time spent dodging pirates, you're talking very hefty bounties per rat or insane LP rewards just to make it worth while.

And again, the problem with making cash in low sec is "why bother with low sec when 0.0 is safer and more profitable?"

---

As far as the isk/lp rewards goes, I don't think it really needs to be insane, how long do average lvl4's take, lets say 20-30 minutes (I really have no idea), just make these take around 3-5 minutes and at about 1/5 the reward, but you would keep getting the missions in space instead of going back through the high/low-sec gates or docking at stations. That would eliminate a lot (not all) of the risk right there.

It would be nice to have a good low-sec market, but I have no idea on how to make that happen with out drastic changes

Posted - 2011.03.17 20:28:00 - [106]

 

Originally by: Liang Nuren

---

Originally by: equincu ocha

---

As far as the isk/lp rewards goes, I don't think it really needs to be insane, how long do average lvl4's take, lets say 20-30 minutes (I really have no idea), just make these take around 3-5 minutes

---

An average L4 takes < 10 minutes for sure. Fast ones take ~2-3 minutes and that's mostly spend in the undock/warp stage.

-Liang

---

For clarification purposes, that's marauders or faction ships blitzing the objectives for LP.

A t1 BS shooting the rats for bounties (whether or not that's doinitwrong is another topic) is looking at 20, 30, 40 minutes. An underskilled poorly fit pilot may take an hour or more on the longer ones.

Posted - 2011.03.17 20:48:00 - [108]

 

Edited by: Monger Man on 17/03/2011 21:51:26
Edited by: Monger Man on 17/03/2011 21:51:02
Edited by: Monger Man on 17/03/2011 21:42:00

Originally by: X Gallentius

---

Best idea evah.

Corruption

---

This is what we need to rally behind.
It will take dev time. But ultimately, something close to this is what
lowsec needs.

I want to add to this.
Boosters.. This is the big deal in a lot of ways.
I think all boosters should be able to be used in hisec. They shouldn't be able to be put on the market. Contracked or traded. They can only be purchased in lowsec, 0.0. You should be able to pay off the authorities at a station to do booster production in station in lowsec. Maybe not in the volumes at a pos, but you should be able to do it. With an increase in gas in lowsec, and maybe changing the materials needed (ie livestock would be interesting) and the ability for the missioners in hisec to boost there out put by coming into lowsec to get the good stuff, it could boost lowsec right there.
And show some of the hisec guys that getting into lowsec with a fast cheap ship isn't so bad.
Lowering there fear of the place a little bit at a time.

Posted - 2011.03.17 21:18:00 - [110]

 

LOL at charlie brown comment... that cartoon was so good.

Posted - 2011.03.17 22:18:00 - [112]

 

I love EVE, I can do without PVP and the PVPers. I have been dealing with the PVP element since Ultima Online. The best way I and, it seems a lot of other "Care-Bears" express our dislike and hostility for your game and hurt you the best way we know how. We stay in safe space and leave you to grow old in your gate camps and die of boredom.

Tweaking game mechanics that cater and give even more to you PVPers is not going motivate any of us on this side to come and play your game.

I will never like pvp or pvpers as long as there is this amazing imbalance toward pirate pvp. As long as a jerk in a Battle Ship can sit at a gate running smart bombs, obliterating anything frigate sized ship going through the system, I see every reason to just stay away. One need go no further than the top ten killers on the battleclinics kill board to see the imbalance case made. The security status system is a joke. Minus 10 security status is a badge of honor. I wonder if a 10 to 100 billion isk bounty reward might change that.

PVP in EVE, even in 0.0 never rises above Bloods & Crypts gang warfare.

Posted - 2011.03.17 22:35:00 - [114]

 

Originally by: Neidrig

---

I love EVE, I can do without PVP and the PVPers. I have been dealing with the PVP element since Ultima Online. The best way I and, it seems a lot of other "Care-Bears" express our dislike and hostility for your game and hurt you the best way we know how. We stay in safe space and leave you to grow old in your gate camps and die of boredom.

Tweaking game mechanics that cater and give even more to you PVPers is not going motivate any of us on this side to come and play your game.

I will never like pvp or pvpers as long as there is this amazing imbalance toward pirate pvp. As long as a jerk in a Battle Ship can sit at a gate running smart bombs, obliterating anything frigate sized ship going through the system, I see every reason to just stay away. One need go no further than the top ten killers on the battleclinics kill board to see the imbalance case made. The security status system is a joke. Minus 10 security status is a badge of honor. I wonder if a 10 to 100 billion isk bounty reward might change that.

PVP in EVE, even in 0.0 never rises above Bloods & Crypts gang warfare.

---

That's totally fine dude. Like I said before, I need people like you to stay in empire and keep the economy rolling. Funny, you hate us, but it's because of you that I can buy cheap ships. Also it's largely because of pvpers that there's any market demand for ships or modules (and therefore ore and minerals) at all. Kind of a two way street there.

If there was anyone still thinking that an attempt to force the bears out of empire was a good idea, take this guy's testimony as evidence to the contrary. There is a population that will not leave empire at all, ever. Trying to force them out will only destabilize the market and cause tears and rage-quits.

Also, I just read that corruption article.

OMFG. DUUU EEET!

I'm especially fond of the idea to put concord bounties on the ships of outlaw players. Keep in mind that I'm -9.5ish. This would bring "white knights" to low sec in droves. And as long as that feature doesn't carry over to 0.0 (I don't see any reason why concord should give a damn about what happens in 0.0) it would really set low sec apart from everywhere else. I love it.

Also someone mentioned using livestock as a material component in low-sec produciton. ****ing genius.

I am 100% in favor of turning low-sec into a hive of sin and debauchery.

Posted - 2011.03.18 00:31:00 - [116]

 

Originally by: Durnin Stormbrow

---

Originally by: X Gallentius

---

They are risk-averse (and lazy) and no potential incentive will bring them to low sec.

---

Like I've said, I've been living in low-sec (Zirsem, Khanid) since the end of October. Maybe it's the part of space I chose to set up in, but the the 'incentive' to be there is so pitiful that I'm in the process of running my gear back to hi-sec. I earn more trading, manufacturing & running missions around Dodixie on an average day than I've earned on my best day in Khanid, and I do it with less hassle.
I haven't lost so much as a drone while living out there, and the local pirates have pretty much stopped hunting for me, but even without much of a PvP threat I see no reason to stay.

---

Zirsem ain't great. There's multiple places in Khanid lowsec with 2 or 3 Q20 agents.

Posted - 2011.03.18 05:39:00 - [118]

 

Originally by: adriaans

---

Solo and small gang pvp'ers, NOT the gatecampy kind. Thats what low-sec should be about IMO. (And get rid of the damn supercaps from it). Also need far less chokepoints. More resources rather than a few hubs here and there spread out.
tldr: more roaming, less camping, reduce blobs.


If you want a CSM runner, check Prometheus Exhental, he's all for solo/small gang pvp.

Fon Revedhort is also pretty kowledgeable.

sadly most of the really good people have left or stopped bothering because nothing has ever been done.

---

Both my characters just voted for him. Thanks.

Posted - 2011.03.18 20:09:00 - [120]

 

Originally by: Rube Lott

---

Thats exactly what i was thinking. From RP perspective it makes sense to make implants lowsec exclusive. Maybe also current implants could be made lowsec exclusive, though it may need some more work to implement as the current system of implant acquisition is quite incompatible with this idea.

---

Remember the important bit is only sell able in lowsec. But can be used anywhere once you own it. The idea is a seedier market in lowsec, smaller items that hopefully would draw some of the hisec player base to come out for.
Obviously not every one will. But the slightly less risk averse has something to buy, or even start selling.