| Author |
Topic |
Nefilus Drey |
Posted - 2011.02.16 02:08:00 - [ 1]
Edited by: Nefilus Drey on 16/02/2011 07:01:46Since the thread I was going to reply to has been locked I started a new one... Passive targeting while cloaked has been requested for some time, and I honestly cant see why it hasn't been implemented. After reading many of the threads on the subject Ill summarise below what the consensus on restrictions should be: - Only possible on T2 Covert ops frigates (not Stealth Bombers)
- Target locks break upon decloaking (would negate use on SB's anyway)
- Range or scan resolution penalty when used cloaked.
- Only Ship scanner and cargo scanner modules can operate.
This simple addition would add a lot more depth and functionality to covert ops scouting. There seems to be very little opposition to the idea and I haven't seen a valid argument why it shouldn't be implemented. Scanning a 10+ ship fleet wouldn't be an easy task, you cant have multiple windows left open to display the scan results so either the scout would need to make a decision on what he or she does with the info or documents it all manually and passes it onto the FC. War targets would be alerted to your presence in local anyway, and if clever would either be constantly on the move between safes so that the scanner wouldn't have a good chance to scan. I don't see it being overpowered at all. With the current arrangement, trying to scan ships in a hostile fleet within 70km is far too dangerous to be feasible, not to mention pointless in a covert ops frigate. Aside from this the passive target module seems only to be useful for high sec gankers. Thoughts? |
Corina's Bodyguard |
Posted - 2011.02.16 02:54:00 - [ 2]
Could you clarify.
You want to be able to lock ships while cloaked... even though you can't do anything that needs locking while cloaked.
I'm a little confused. |
Jennifer Emmagan
Deep Core Mining Inc.
|
Posted - 2011.02.16 03:01:00 - [ 3]
Fairly sure he wants to be able to passive target then preform ship scans on people while cloaked.
I'm not against this idea, but I also don't feel the need for it. There are things I'd rather have, like better POS management, etc, but I'm not against it being added if it's simple for CCP to do so. (Which it seems it would be) |
Barbara Nichole
Cryogenic Consultancy
Black Sun Alliance |
Posted - 2011.02.16 03:12:00 - [ 4]
So what you're really asking for is the ability to target and scan ships while cloaked.. that's two things.
Of course, targeting and having the target break on de-cloak would be worthless otherwise.
Interesting.. not sure how I feel yet.
|
Gnean Tyrova |
Posted - 2011.02.16 03:52:00 - [ 5]
+1 I like. Covert ops frigs are scouts and tbh, while being on the same grid as the enemy and knowing their ship types is great and all, being able to better coordinate your attack would definitely be a plus and would be inline with the concept of the better planned team winning. Granted, the ships should take a fairly long time to lock; mostly for balancing. ( say max of 2 targets locked, 30 secs to lock minimum; just example values ) Wouldn't mind being able to actually put the ship scanner, cargo scanner, and passive targeter to good use for once.  |
Barbara Nichole
Cryogenic Consultancy
Black Sun Alliance |
Posted - 2011.02.16 04:10:00 - [ 6]
I have one question though. Passive targeting doesn't seem to be completely covert... You can tell you are being targeted by watching the overview. (passive targeting does however turn off the klaxon, targeted message, and the target back setting) How will that work on cloaked vessels? Will there be a blank line in the overview showing a yellow bracket around no ship in it?  |
Jennifer Emmagan
Deep Core Mining Inc.
|
Posted - 2011.02.16 04:12:00 - [ 7]
Passive targeting doesn't give any indication someone is targeting you. That's what makes it different from normal targeting. |
Barbara Nichole
Cryogenic Consultancy
Black Sun Alliance |
Posted - 2011.02.16 04:15:00 - [ 8]
Edited by: Barbara Nichole on 16/02/2011 04:20:31
Have you been passively targeted? I have and I could tell. In fact, I spent a lot of time experimenting with it. |
Jennifer Emmagan
Deep Core Mining Inc.
|
Posted - 2011.02.16 04:40:00 - [ 9]
 Originally by: Barbara Nichole
Edited by: Barbara Nichole on 16/02/2011 04:20:31
Have you been passively targeted? I have and I could tell. In fact, I spent a lot of time experimenting with it.
If you were passively targeted you wouldn't know. You're entirely unaware until something is used on you with a visual cue (ie, a weapon, point, web, ecm, etc). There are no visual identifiers. That's what makes it passive. You were probably using the module wrong. |
Barbara Nichole
Cryogenic Consultancy
Black Sun Alliance |
Posted - 2011.02.16 05:01:00 - [ 10]
Quote:
If you were passively targeted you wouldn't know.
I'm telling you unless ccp has made a specific changes - that this is not entirely true. I have tested this extensively. I've always been able to tell by looking at the ships moniker in the overview. If I hadn't spent the time testing it I wouldn't have brought it up. |
Jennifer Emmagan
Deep Core Mining Inc.
|
Posted - 2011.02.16 05:17:00 - [ 11]
Edited by: Jennifer Emmagan on 16/02/2011 05:19:09
Then you were doing it wrong.
Put on a passive targeter and try it.
Step 1: Click the button for the passive targeter or press the appropriate F-key. It will begin flashing and cross hairs will appear and follow your cursor.
Step 2: Click the ship you wish to target passively, either in space or on the overview.
Step 3: Check the overview of the client which you targeted.
There is no visual identifier. Note that using a cargo scan does not inform them of the target, however, the cargo scanning visual animation still displays so you can see when you are being cargo scanned even if they have passive targeted you -- but only if you are paying close attention. Again, any hostile action like shooting causes them to start flashing with the brackets around their icon like normal. |
Nefilus Drey |
Posted - 2011.02.16 06:04:00 - [ 12]
Sorry should of clarified...
The point of passive targeting while cloaked is to perform ship scans. |
Goose99 |
Posted - 2011.02.16 07:26:00 - [ 13]
Originally by: Jennifer Emmagan
Edited by: Jennifer Emmagan on 16/02/2011 05:19:09
Then you were doing it wrong.
Put on a passive targeter and try it.
Step 1: Click the button for the passive targeter or press the appropriate F-key. It will begin flashing and cross hairs will appear and follow your cursor.
Step 2: Click the ship you wish to target passively, either in space or on the overview.
Step 3: Check the overview of the client which you targeted.
There is no visual identifier. Note that using a cargo scan does not inform them of the target, however, the cargo scanning visual animation still displays so you can see when you are being cargo scanned even if they have passive targeted you -- but only if you are paying close attention. Again, any hostile action like shooting causes them to start flashing with the brackets around their icon like normal.
Unless they changed something, you do get yellow boxed. |
Corina's Bodyguard |
Posted - 2011.02.16 11:22:00 - [ 14]
Passive Targeter does not warn you in overview. You see nothing. Unless they do it wrong.
However, I have noticed that if you take to long to target (ie turn off the targetter and it takes past the cycle), they do get alerted. Sometimes.
Now that I understand the idea, I kinda like it. Then I would actually use my CovOps for... well, covert ops. |
Imigo Montoya
Wildly Inappropriate
Goonswarm Federation |
Posted - 2011.02.16 12:14:00 - [ 15]
There are visuals available for scouts via the "Look at..." option like what type of guns a ship has, whether hardeners are on, SeBos running, cap transfer etc. I'm not really seeing much further need for passive scanning. |
De'Veldrin
Minmatar
Norse'Storm Battle Group
Intrepid Crossing |
Posted - 2011.02.16 13:58:00 - [ 16]
Originally by: Imigo Montoya
There are visuals available for scouts via the "Look at..." option like what type of guns a ship has, whether hardeners are on, SeBos running, cap transfer etc. I'm not really seeing much further need for passive scanning.
The big advantage this would give would is two fold: It lets you see what ships that have no visual indicators currently running are fit with (ie missile ships - no visual cues there). Second, it lets you see exactly how they're tanked and against what kinds of damage so you can outfit your fleet to better counter them. I'm honestly not sure how I feel about this. While I like the idea of letting covops ships get more data, I am not sure being able to scan an entire enemy fleet from 70k is a good measure to implement. Maybe if it significantly nerfed the range while cloaked so that there's a greater chance of being decloaked and caught. |
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