| Author |
Topic |
Wintermute Cnom |
Posted - 2011.01.31 07:43:00 - [ 1]
I was wondering which ship would be more efficient for running L4 missions.
With Dominix and Drones, I read that Ogre I/II's are very slow especially when reaching distant targets. Although there is less/no tracking issues with drones(?). And the ability to switch to another batch of medium drones/light drones/sentry drones makes it very versatile.
With the Raven, I'm kinda discouraged by the damage penalties that cruise missiles would receive taking into account signature radius (although this can be helped by target painters) and explosion velocity (69m/s missile base velocity vs around 180m/s npc's ship velocity). Although the raw DPS seems to be higher (?)
I'm relatively new to EVE (2m SP) with an even split of 400k for drones and missile skills. |
Deerin
Minmatar
Murientor Tribe
|
Posted - 2011.01.31 08:07:00 - [ 2]
Domi shines when using sentries, Raven is awesome with rigor rigs. Both are awesome and both need completely different skillsets. With 2M SP you should be more looking at l3 missions and battlecruisers. Get your core skills up, get your tanking skills up then look for flying battleships.
|
Liang Nuren |
Posted - 2011.01.31 08:24:00 - [ 3]
Its been a long time since I was in your position. IIRC, the Domi was a pretty decent competitor to the Raven all the way up the line. The CNR simply blows it away though.
-Liang |
Wintermute Cnom |
Posted - 2011.01.31 08:32:00 - [ 4]
Edited by: Wintermute Cnom on 31/01/2011 09:05:57 Originally by: Deerin
Domi shines when using sentries, Raven is awesome with rigor rigs. Both are awesome and both need completely different skillsets. With 2M SP you should be more looking at l3 missions and battlecruisers. Get your core skills up, get your tanking skills up then look for flying battleships.
Well, I'm running L3's on a drake right now and I'm having no problems with it. I'm just planning ahead on what to take. Originally by: Liang Nuren
Its been a long time since I was in your position. IIRC, the Domi was a pretty decent competitor to the Raven all the way up the line. The CNR simply blows it away though.
-Liang
So training for a Raven would be a good stepping stone to CNR? Off topic : btw, are you the same Liang Nuren credited here? http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Raven_Navy_Issue_(Fitting)#Navy_Raven_a_la_Liang |
Liang Nuren |
Posted - 2011.01.31 08:34:00 - [ 5]
Originally by: Wintermute Cnom
So training for a Raven would be a good stepping stone to CNR?
Yeah, I tend to think its a good idea. ;-) Quote:
Off topic : btw, are you the same Liang Nuren credit here? http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Raven_Navy_Issue_(Fitting)#Navy_Raven_a_la_Liang
Sadly. -Liang |
Julien Brellier |
Posted - 2011.01.31 11:52:00 - [ 6]
Domi is AFK mode.
Turn on tank, warp in, draw aggro, release drones, go watch some TV, come back and see if everything is dead yet.
|
BITEK HOLDING |
Posted - 2011.01.31 11:55:00 - [ 7]
Originally by: Julien Brellier
Domi is AFK mode.
Turn on tank, warp in, draw aggro, release drones, go watch some TV, come back and see if everything is dead yet.
Unless 'everything' is all your drones because the mission aggro glitched uuuugain and your ship because you got neuted  |
Shanlara |
Posted - 2011.01.31 12:04:00 - [ 8]
Originally by: Julien Brellier
Domi is AFK mode.
Turn on tank, warp in, draw aggro, release drones, go watch some TV, come back and see if everything is dead yet.
The domi have some issues in some missions, notable the big angels or drone missions, tanking wise ofcause, I'll say the rattlesnake is the king of drone missioning :) But on the subject with raven vs domi, I'll just say T2 sentry > all... sorry the raven is awesome, but the continueing nerfs to missiles and the fact that nearly all rats use defender missiles just throw the dps off to much... also the domi/drone solution is for people who enjoys a more casual look on missioning, it's not the fastest but it's relaxing and you can do other things while, I tend to play other games while missioning or do PI or whatever you like, mine on alts, trade on alts, you take the pick. On the other hand ravens can be abit faster, but it cost ammo, and it requires mostly full attention. I'll say it depends on playstyle also. |
Linda Flamewalker |
Posted - 2011.01.31 13:38:00 - [ 9]
Speaking as someone that actually has guns on her domi just to chime in the domi isnt JUST an afk boat. Yes it does that well but if you activly pilot it you will find the gap to the raven class ships narrow down further. And.. its more fun |
Wintermute Cnom |
Posted - 2011.01.31 13:43:00 - [ 10]
Thanks for the feedback guys Originally by: Shanlara
The domi have some issues in some missions, notable the big angels or drone missions, tanking wise ofcause, I'll say the rattlesnake is the king of drone missioning :)
But on the subject with raven vs domi, I'll just say T2 sentry > all... sorry the raven is awesome, but the continueing nerfs to missiles and the fact that nearly all rats use defender missiles just throw the dps off to much... also the domi/drone solution is for people who enjoys a more casual look on missioning, it's not the fastest but it's relaxing and you can do other things while, I tend to play other games while missioning or do PI or whatever you like, mine on alts, trade on alts, you take the pick.
On the other hand ravens can be abit faster, but it cost ammo, and it requires mostly full attention.
I'll say it depends on playstyle also.
Actually, I was planning to get a Rattlesnake since it both has the skills I invest in, mainly drones and missiles. As it seems, the Raven would be a more efficient choice, and CNR/Golem are also awesome ships, but my personal preference of drones over missiles would leave me playing a Rattlesnake instead, and it's much cheaper than a CNR/Golem. |
Malema |
Posted - 2011.01.31 14:41:00 - [ 11]
Originally by: Wintermute Cnom
Actually, I was planning to get a Rattlesnake since it both has the skills I invest in, mainly drones and missiles.
As it seems, the Raven would be a more efficient choice, and CNR/Golem are also awesome ships, but my personal preference of drones over missiles would leave me playing a Rattlesnake instead, and it's much cheaper than a CNR/Golem.
Welcome to the club brother . Rattle is awesome , albeit a little on the slow side time wise. |
Cataca |
Posted - 2011.01.31 16:19:00 - [ 12]
Edited by: Cataca on 31/01/2011 16:25:36 Originally by: Wintermute Cnom
I was wondering which ship would be more efficient for running L4 missions.
With Dominix and Drones, I read that Ogre I/II's are very slow especially when reaching distant targets. Although there is less/no tracking issues with drones(?). And the ability to switch to another batch of medium drones/light drones/sentry drones makes it very versatile.
With the Raven, I'm kinda discouraged by the damage penalties that cruise missiles would receive taking into account signature radius (although this can be helped by target painters) and explosion velocity (69m/s missile base velocity vs around 180m/s npc's ship velocity). Although the raw DPS seems to be higher (?)
I'm relatively new to EVE (2m SP) with an even split of 400k for drones and missile skills.
Edit: Goddamn forum eating my post. The t1 ships are fairly equal, dominix is a bit noob friendlier with 2x repper setup, but to perfect skills for it will take quite a bit longer than for the Raven. Another point is that the raven is mobile while doing its dps, meaning it will allways be faster in missions where you need to move around. The dominix is tied to its sentries (the only way to go if you dont want to afk it) The Faction ships are a different boat tho, the CNR gets another launcher slot so a direct dps boost the Dominix gets another mid, and depending on how you fit it the calibration (350 instead of 400) means one less sentry damage rig to fit. |
Potato IQ |
Posted - 2011.01.31 16:24:00 - [ 13]
Originally by: Wintermute Cnom
and it's much cheaper than a CNR/Golem
Eh? You won’t be saving that much. This is my work-in-progress fit: Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Co-Processor II Signal Amplifier II Damage Control II Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link Ballistic Deflection Field II Ballistic Deflection Field II Ballistic Deflection Field II X-Large C5-L Emergency Shield Overload I Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Wrath Cruise Missile 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Wrath Cruise Missile 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Wrath Cruise Missile 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Wrath Cruise Missile Small Tractor Beam I Drone Link Augmentor I Large Sentry Damage Augmentor I Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I Large Drone Scope Chip I Bouncer II x 5 Garde II x 5 Hammerhead II x 5 Hobgoblin II x 5 Rattler hull was 490m when I picked it up last month. Not sure what the CNR is now, but got mine for 550m 6 or 7 months ago, so likely similar I fit my CNR a la Liang (bows to a great fit – stop this being embarrassed about it nonsense), although played around with 2 TP’s with Fury and 2 hardeners which was a bit too close to pop on a couple of occasions, and only use 3 x T1 rigors as the T2 was just silly expensive at time and never saw the need to upgrade. So for a rig perspective, the cost is similar For your lows, I’ve gone as per the CNR except can only fit 3 CN BCS at moment. Will eventually drop the co-processor for another and you’ve the bonus of the DC The mids are more expensive that the CNR due to the Federation omni’s. Only have 2 at moment, but plan to run 3 and a TP. Will drop to 2 mission specific hardeners, because of the DC, and an improved shield booster T2 launchers are impossible as CPU is way too tight with my current skills, so you may save a bit there, although I’m already thinking of CN ones which makes the high slot fittings way more than the CNR. May come to ripping the Drone Scope Chip out to free the CPU if I do go for T2 (not played with it on EFT yet) Having spent a lot of time in a CNR and quite a bit in the Rattler, I much prefer the Rattler. Being stationary with sentries is frustrating when you have gates 60k away and heavy close range cruiser missions like Buzz Kill are very annoying, but it feels a far more solid platform that allows me to fart about while playing and the performance is on a par with the CNR. You will want to pimp it as much as possible to get the most out of it, so tell me after a couple of months if you went for the cheaper option |
Joss56
Gallente
Unleashed' Fury |
Posted - 2011.01.31 16:53:00 - [ 14]
Edited by: Joss56 on 31/01/2011 16:53:16
Raven owns everything, try the navy version one. I've never seen something that can match the dps of this monster in lvl4 (assuming char same skills), the perfect bacher imo. |
Shab T'shet |
Posted - 2011.01.31 18:08:00 - [ 15]
Edited by: Shab T''shet on 31/01/2011 18:08:51 Originally by: Malema
Welcome to the club brother . Rattle is awesome , albeit a little on the slow side time wise.
I just picked myself up a Rattler. I just cross-trained over from Hybrids and Armor Tank so my missile and shield skills are lacking. But the Rattler's tank is fantastic. My missioning now consists of warping in, get agro, launch drones, play call of duty TDM, check in between matches, play more cod, reap rewards. She is a bit slower then my Navi Domi but i like passive missioning. :) |
Lost Greybeard
Gallente |
Posted - 2011.01.31 18:27:00 - [ 16]
Domi is massively better if you want to mission while not paying attention (you'll only sometimes be killed by going AFK halfway through, instead of 100% of the time) but I'd say if you are at the keyboard and paying attention they're about on par.
The Raven is a bit more popular because (1) Caldari in general has a stronger PvE line of ships, so PvE-focused players tend to favor it on principle, and (2) it has a faction version (the Caldari Navy Raven, which we refuse to call by its actual name because CNR is a better acronym) with significantly enhanced damage/tank, whereas the faction Dominix relies on drones (so no real damage boost) and was already basically invincible (so tankig boost isn't important).
Though, if you're going for the CNR, you're talking about a very strict dedication of resources and probably time to missions. If you're going that route, you'll likely end up going battleships 5 and taking the Marauder. That makes Caldari a much better choice than Gallente (the Kronos is almost a better PvP boat than PvE), but adds another option -- Amarr has, in my opinion, the mot Marauderish Marauder ever to maraud. No ammo, good slot layout, and if you mission in the appropriate areas the non-selectable damage type isn't important.
So I'm going to give an odd answer and say Paladin.
(With a Dominix you'll usually use light or medium drones to clear out the NPC frigates and then swap to sentries, Ogres are used primarily in PvP and very specific PvE fights. With a Raven, you'll be using light drones (or mids) on the smaller ships and shootig the big ones with your missiles.) |
Theodoric Darkwind
Gallente
PonyWaffe
Test Alliance Please Ignore |
Posted - 2011.01.31 21:54:00 - [ 17]
|
Cipher Jones
Minmatar |
Posted - 2011.01.31 22:27:00 - [ 18]
1. OT but worth mentioning... AFK missioning is a recipe for tears. On a long enough timeline you WILL lose your ship to a griefer, or worse, me.
2. Raven will complete its native missions faster than a similar skilled Domi and vice versa.
3. Both Navy versions are also the fastest (out of the 2 choices) at their native missions. |
Snyderm |
Posted - 2011.02.02 13:57:00 - [ 19]
Edited by: Snyderm on 02/02/2011 14:01:42 Originally by: Liang Nuren
Its been a long time since I was in your position. IIRC, the Domi was a pretty decent competitor to the Raven all the way up the line. The CNR simply blows it away though.
-Liang
Why couldn't they have made the Navy Domi a clear step up from a Domi, like a navy raven is to a regular raven? Gallente suck for pvp, whats wrong with giving them a competitive faction ship for pve? I know, I know, NERF GALLENTE! Edit: and don't give me this rattlesnake crap. If you can fly a Rattlesnake properly, you have good shield skills and good missle skills. So why in god's name aren't you flying a Navy Raven? |
Malema |
Posted - 2011.02.02 14:35:00 - [ 20]
Edited by: Malema on 02/02/2011 14:35:52 Originally by: Snyderm
So why in god's name aren't you flying a Navy Raven?
Freedom of choice ? Don't want to ? I like to code and sometimes look at my screen occasionally? Huge SP in drones ? Slightly cheaper fit ? Freedom of easily going from afk to in front of keyboard mode with some cheap t2 components ? |
Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
|
Posted - 2011.02.02 14:48:00 - [ 21]
Originally by: Snyderm
Why couldn't they have made the Navy Domi a clear step up from a Domi, like a navy raven is to a regular raven?
For a very simple (but also rather silly) reason: because all faction ships have to lose 50pts of calibration as part of the "navyfication" process. There are other issues with the Navy Domi, but that one is what really shoots its knees out. |
Cipher Jones
Minmatar |
Posted - 2011.02.02 18:31:00 - [ 22]
Quote:
Because Gallante are the Washington Generals of EVE.
The Washington generals use the same equipment as the Harlem Globetrotters. |
Lost Greybeard
Gallente |
Posted - 2011.02.02 21:11:00 - [ 23]
Originally by: Snyderm
Why couldn't they have made the Navy Domi a clear step up from a Domi, like a navy raven is to a regular raven? Gallente suck for pvp, whats wrong with giving them a competitive faction ship for pve?
The Domi _is_ a good pvp ship. The pvp weakness of gallente comes mostly from issues with hybrids being harder to use than other turrets. Domi pilots generally don't use (many) turrets, they rely on drones and neuts, which can be pretty overpowered combined with some EW. |
Jason W0rthing |
Posted - 2011.02.03 05:39:00 - [ 24]
Originally by: Wintermute Cnom
I was wondering which ship would be more efficient for running L4 missions.
With Dominix and Drones, I read that Ogre I/II's are very slow especially when reaching distant targets. Although there is less/no tracking issues with drones(?). And the ability to switch to another batch of medium drones/light drones/sentry drones makes it very versatile.
With the Raven, I'm kinda discouraged by the damage penalties that cruise missiles would receive taking into account signature radius (although this can be helped by target painters) and explosion velocity (69m/s missile base velocity vs around 180m/s npc's ship velocity). Although the raw DPS seems to be higher (?)
I'm relatively new to EVE (2m SP) with an even split of 400k for drones and missile skills.
I would personally go for the Raven. Simply because those skills will give you access to the CNR which is one of the best, if not the best, mission running ships in the game. At the end of the day when you've been running lvl4s for ages you won't care about ease of missioning or w/e, you'll just be staring at your wallet and your lp count wishing both would go up faster. Since the CNR is better for that endgame mission activity than the Domi I would say Raven, hands down. |
Headerman
Minmatar
Quovis
Shadow of xXDEATHXx |
Posted - 2011.02.03 06:01:00 - [ 25]
Def best to keep on track with your current race... you can expand up to a CNR or even a golem, or go backwards and into a Tengu |
freshspree
Caldari
Dissonance Corp |
Posted - 2011.02.03 16:13:00 - [ 26]
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Tusen Takk
Guy Fawkes Trust Fund
31ST Reliables Division |
Posted - 2011.02.03 16:38:00 - [ 27]
Originally by: Wintermute Cnom
I was wondering which ship would be more efficient for running L4 missions.
With Dominix and Drones, I read that Ogre I/II's are very slow especially when reaching distant targets. Although there is less/no tracking issues with drones(?). And the ability to switch to another batch of medium drones/light drones/sentry drones makes it very versatile.
With the Raven, I'm kinda discouraged by the damage penalties that cruise missiles would receive taking into account signature radius (although this can be helped by target painters) and explosion velocity (69m/s missile base velocity vs around 180m/s npc's ship velocity). Although the raw DPS seems to be higher (?)
I'm relatively new to EVE (2m SP) with an even split of 400k for drones and missile skills.
with 2mil sp you shouldnt even be thinking about battleships until you have a well fit battlecruiser and even then you want really good capacitor skills for the active tanks most PvE ships need |
Cambarus
Malicious Destruction
War Against the Manifest |
Posted - 2011.02.03 16:58:00 - [ 28]
A regular domi mops the floor with a regular raven at very high and very low SP ranges. Shield tanked with 425mm rails it will put out more DPS than a raven with torps, with much better range, and at <5mil SP it can be set up to easily tank any lvl 4 mission. The domi is more comparable to the CNR than it is the regular raven, as is the navy domi (which doesn't put out more DPS but is easier to fit)
That said, IMO the golem is better than either provided you don't mind the range constraints.
As far as drone travel time goes, most of that can be mitigated by properly managing your drones. Sure heavies have to burn 30k to get to that first rat, but rats tend to spawn close together so the issue isn't as big as people make it out to be. |
Nuela |
Posted - 2011.02.03 19:49:00 - [ 29]
Edited by: Nuela on 03/02/2011 19:50:56 Originally by: Theodoric Darkwind
L4s are doable in a drake
Not only doable...but actually SAFER. My mission passive shield Drake out tanks my CNR over time. The CNR is more 'brittle' and you have to mission more carefully than with the Drake. The only superior tanking the CNR has over the Drake is that if you end up in armor the CNR has time to GTFO. You find yourself in armor in the Drake and you are dead within seconds. I use this Drake whenever I mission and the corp is under wardec. However, the Drake will take much longer to finish the missions so much lower on isk/hour. |
freshspree
Caldari
Dissonance Corp |
Posted - 2011.02.03 21:03:00 - [ 30]
Time for me to say something of value to you. I've never flown a domi but i did fly and own both the CNR and raven. Caldari ships are easy mode. Just click that missile button and permarun or pulse that booster. You can use ur drones(should be T2)to kill frigs and cruisers while you take out the BSs.
If you have limited time to play like i do. You'll want something that kills things fast without you having to do much. Using sentries and rails with horrid tracking is a pain cause you have to stay close to d drones and worry bout optimal and all that **** but it's a lot easier with the raven/CNR. You can fit rigors and tp for efficient use of dps but you'll need a lesson on cap management also.
Also, for a 2 mil sp pilot. You should bother about getting T2 shield hardeners, weapon upgrades, shield upgrades, and energy grid upgrades. You should have a full T2 tank on battle cruisers before moving to BSs.
If you plan on getting a ship other than a marauder that doesn't have range limitations and clears missions very quickly then you want a nightmare. That thing with tachyons is beast. i don't want to get you all wanting to crosstrain as soon as you read this but it's the truth. The golem does a good job also but takes time to train for just like any marauder.
FINAL CONCLUSION: RAVEN WINS
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