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Borza Slavak
Minmatar
Mirkur Draug'Tyr
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2011.02.01 13:24:00 - [241]
 

Originally by: Fred Freedom

-The mining colony vanguard is unfun and pointless. Two waves before the mining starts + 3 frigates afterwards = a site designed to make 10 people sit there (or buy the mineral off contracts from some other group that had to sit there) while one guy mines and ferries the drop 50km in a really slow ship. Please do something about this.



Mining drones from a relatively fast ship helps somewhat. You only need two runs worth from 5x mining drone I for the site and 250 units should fit in quite a few cargo holds. Dedicated mining ship need not apply.

My Postman
Posted - 2011.02.01 13:27:00 - [242]
 

About highsec incursions:

Donīt rise the rewards, no loot, no salvage. As long as you can have an acceptable isk/hr ratio, there will always be those min/maxers running these sites for 23/7. When income stays low the only ones interrested in running those incursions will be the local population, as pretty much everything else in the constellation is messed up.

Give some sort of delay from lock after warping in, but donīt make it too easy. As it is now itīs a matter of luck if the primaried ship survives, because no logi is fast enough to even lock (nor start first circle of repping), when s*** hits the fan.

Do something about RRing. Itīs ridiculous that on the first day half of pveīers where killed by concord. That would allow some sort of PUGs or random fleeting up, when an incursion hits your constellation.

Just a few thoughts.

Muad 'dib
Caldari
The Imperial Fedaykin
Posted - 2011.02.01 15:43:00 - [243]
 

Originally by: CCP TomB
FIIIIIRST


tom b is back?

did he leave?

whats goin.... aaarrrugh

Cambarus
Malicious Destruction
War Against the Manifest
Posted - 2011.02.01 20:03:00 - [244]
 

Edited by: Cambarus on 02/02/2011 03:34:36
Chillin in another vanguard system. 5 Override transfers, none of the others.

EDIT:After the server restarted, there were all sorts of sites. Now the system I'm in has 6 override transfer sites >_>

IceGuerilla
Amarr
Poseidon's Wingmen
Perihelion Alliance
Posted - 2011.02.02 00:30:00 - [245]
 

I just looked at the incursions tab and saw a very important point:
Sansha's Nation has just launched an incursion against a 0.0 pocket in Esoteria, which if I'm not mistaken is already infested with Sanshas.

For RP reasons, I would suggest that the incursions be programmed not to occur in already Sansha-held space, particularly their home region Stain.

Anita Lazarin
Caldari
Cassus Beli
Posted - 2011.02.02 03:55:00 - [246]
 

What do the following states of incursions mean:

Incursion Established

Incursion Mobilized

Incursion Withdrawing

Cornullus Rage
Posted - 2011.02.02 04:15:00 - [247]
 

Will some of the Charbears please come to JOAS and clear out the Incursion rats. This patch has actually slowed my revenue stream. No big hualers are coming through that I can gank!

Marcus Junius
Posted - 2011.02.02 04:24:00 - [248]
 

Originally by: Anita Lazarin
What do the following states of incursions mean:

Incursion Established

Incursion Mobilized

Incursion Withdrawing


As a guess, by the names.

Running
Starting
Ending

n00n3r
Caldari
Malicious Destruction
Posted - 2011.02.02 05:37:00 - [249]
 

Edited by: n00n3r on 02/02/2011 05:39:10
Originally by: Cornullus Rage
Will some of the Charbears please come to JOAS and clear out the Incursion rats. This patch has actually slowed my revenue stream. No big hualers are coming through that I can gank!


This is something I may be able to help you out with, providing you could put me in contact with the local inhabitants, and make it worth-while of courseWink

*edit
nvm, just noticed it was withdrawing, it should take care of itself within a day.

Enjoy!
n00n

Elder Chaz
Posted - 2011.02.02 06:09:00 - [250]
 

id be interested to see a ccp dev blog on the fail status of low sec incursions

Veryez
Posted - 2011.02.02 07:59:00 - [251]
 

Ran a series of scout and vanguard sites, thoughts and comments:

The original rate of Sansha influence was too much, however the new rate is too low for highsec, needs a slight tweak back up in difficulty for highsec (but not to original level).

Override transfer array's aren't being run nearly as much as the other sites, I believe this is due to the vulnerability window being too short, this should be a bit longer, some adjustment is required on this. Has anyone tried destroying the battlestation during the vulnerability window? Would this stop the repping?

Scout sites are fairly well balanced, and are good places for beginners.

As to the comments that this new expansion isn't new player friendly. T1 frigates/cruisers do fine in scout sites. Obviously the harder sites were never meant to for them, just as 10/10 complexes weren't. However t1 BC's do fine in Vanguard sites, if the fleet is setup properly.

I agree that there should be some adjustment for groups that run sites with larger groups of small ships. A point system like the one used in the tournament is a good place to start.

As for an idea, the sites should not have set npc waves, this will, over time, make them as boring and predictible as missions/sleepers. Let there be a 1% chance of an additional/harder wave at 100% influence. And let this chance slowly adjust to like 20% at 50% influence. I can imagine a 10 sansha group of HACs appearing at a national commander site as part of the 3rd wave, or a 5 BS group. Why not even make the groups variable. You could use the same mechanic that spawns a faction ship in some of the lvl 4 missions. Anything to make them different. For RP purposes, the Sansha are adjusting their tactics as they encounter resistance.

The GCC in highsec complaints, sorry, this is EvE, just live with it. Besides already people are adjusting. Lets say we went back to repping criminals not causing a GCC. Look up the Yulai incident and m0o, no thank you I don't need that revisited.

Loot thieves - that's life in EvE, always has been and always should be. Next time have an alt in a small fast ship ready to scoop the wreck. This is highsec; loot thieves, ninja scavengers and can flippers are part of life in highsec. Accept it, that's the risk to your reward. If your group was really organized, you would have prepared for that. And no I don't engage in those activities, but accept them as the result of life in highsec. Eve is a cold, dark place after all.

Whatever you do, do not make them easier. They should not be huge revenue streams, there are enough of those in game. Keep them challenging and fun.

Overall this expansion adds a new and very interesting element into the game and I for one like it very much (I never got to a 10/10 complex, only to an 8/10 back when they were static). Yes there have been a higher than normal number of bugs and patches after this expansion, but that seems to be straightening out.

Calathea Sata
State War Academy
Posted - 2011.02.02 08:04:00 - [252]
 

I want CCP to design the game not players doing the job.

Fai Ni
Posted - 2011.02.02 10:05:00 - [253]
 

Poll on EvE-ru.com:
15% - Epic fail!
15% - Fail!
50% - I do not care...
20% - this is a very good expansion
------------------------------------
voted 316


IMHO: New red dots - nothing new. people don`t need to challenge with NPC, they want to fight with each other.

prospector oen
Posted - 2011.02.02 11:56:00 - [254]
 

do something with joas plz

Acac Sunflyier
Gallente
Posted - 2011.02.02 13:13:00 - [255]
 

Edited by: Acac Sunflyier on 02/02/2011 13:15:05
I feel as if there isn't much of an impact from Incursions. I mean the only detriment to them is it becomes a ittle more difficult to run missions and you have ot mine in another system. Its not like there are roving bands of Sansha hunting players.


Oh and in high sec incursions I think its kinda strange that you can accidentally bomb your friends and have CONCORD show up and completely ignore the Sansha

Ingvar Angst
Amarr
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
Talocan United
Posted - 2011.02.02 13:22:00 - [256]
 

Originally by: Acac Sunflyier
Edited by: Acac Sunflyier on 02/02/2011 13:15:05
I feel as if there isn't much of an impact from Incursions. I mean the only detriment to them is it becomes a ittle more difficult to run missions and you have ot mine in another system. Its not like there are roving bands of Sansha hunting players.

Oh and in high sec incursions I think its kinda strange that you can accidentally bomb your friends and have CONCORD show up and completely ignore the Sansha


You know... that would be a cool addition at least in hi-sec... groups of a half dozen or so frigates going into systems and simply attacking whatever they come across. The Sansha "weaking the will and resolve of the <insert appropriate Sansha insult here>". Imagine the rage when Sansha start popping botting miners while they're afk...

Michwich
Posted - 2011.02.02 18:05:00 - [257]
 

Edited by: Michwich on 02/02/2011 18:05:18
Originally by: Ingvar Angst
Originally by: Acac Sunflyier
Edited by: Acac Sunflyier on 02/02/2011 13:15:05
I feel as if there isn't much of an impact from Incursions. I mean the only detriment to them is it becomes a ittle more difficult to run missions and you have ot mine in another system. Its not like there are roving bands of Sansha hunting players.

Oh and in high sec incursions I think its kinda strange that you can accidentally bomb your friends and have CONCORD show up and completely ignore the Sansha


You know... that would be a cool addition at least in hi-sec... groups of a half dozen or so frigates going into systems and simply attacking whatever they come across. The Sansha "weaking the will and resolve of the <insert appropriate Sansha insult here>". Imagine the rage when Sansha start popping botting miners while they're afk...


Imagine other peoples rage? ... Why? I dont care what other people are doing or feeling in their game. Why do you?

prospector oen
Posted - 2011.02.03 00:58:00 - [258]
 

joas vanished now how about somewhere busy ami, antem, gondista, vehan

prospector oen
Posted - 2011.02.03 05:04:00 - [259]
 

only 2 in low sec today. Failcascade continues

Nicaren
Posted - 2011.02.03 06:56:00 - [260]
 

I have been flying with FCORD fleets and have completed several incursions with them. First, I LOVE this feature, but I do have some specific comments. I know some of these have been hinted at before, but I want to put all of my thoughts down.

1. Rewards spread: I want to first point out that I do not think Incursions should be any easier. They were made as a high-end PVE/PVP experience, and that should not change. Rewards however are laughable compared to other activities. Incursions demand elite pilots and competent fleets to get anything done. It also tends to take a long time to form the corrent fleet composition, get it going, and there is high risk in the actual site. I do not think time/risk=reward for any of the current Incursion sites. It does not necessarily have to be directly bumped up, but some sort of additional way for Incursions to generate isk should be added. Right now they are surviving on newness. Pilots are willing to put the 350mil ships on the line to try out the feature and have fun. What happens when the new appeal starts to wear off?

2. The "zero" possibility: Related to reward, but in a different way. Name one other feature in EVE that requires a 100% or nothing payout style? I cant think of any. On one hand I like this because it forces players to focus and give it thier all, but is there something that could be added so that payout is never null? Incursions are HARD, and while that doesnt have to change, some higher incentives will be needed.

3. To address a specific questions asked of this thread, is there variability in the sights that are on the same level (vanguard, assault, etc)? I have not yet completed an HQ site, but I have run many vanguard and assault, and taken down the supercap. I would say the biggest deviations in difficult revolve around the sites that require split fleets. These are signifigantly more challenging on a couple of levels. First, most players are packing bigger ships. BCs and higher are most often employed. While HACS are great, they are not as prevelant, and t1 crusiers get ripped the shreds. Completing these split fleets sites, then requires a fleet to totally change its composition(and usually add more logistics)...all for the same reward as a much easier site. Don't change the site itself, it makes for a much more interesting experience. However, we again run into the risk=reward calculator. Even if a non-split site and a split site are both Vanguard, the split site should have a higher payout.

4. Predictability: This is where I see Incursion entering grind mode. Currently, most PVE is predictable. You know what kinds of spawns happen in belts, u know more less what kind of spawns happen in missions, and most null sec ratters have memeorized the spawn waves of Sanctums and plexes. Even after less than a week of release, I am noticing that the good FCs have begun to memorize Incursion site spawn waves. The AI is great, but when in PVP do u know exactly what is coming at you? I suggest randomizing spawns in such a way that difficultly is not majorly changed, but requires a fleet to continuously adapt within a site.

Phew, okay that was lot of commentary. I hope it strikes up some ideas. My ISK is still devoted to Incursions currently. Wink

Nicaren
Posted - 2011.02.03 07:31:00 - [261]
 

I know, I just posted, but I have a few more thoughts now.

1. Lowesec Incursions: Maybe I missed it, but it doesnt seem like any low/null sec Incursions have been completed yet. Probably because anyone who has lived for any amount of time in these areas of space know that the isk/hour ratio is much higher and safer just ratting than bothering with Incursions. The BPC alone is what might entice the larger 0.0 Alliances to just blow through an Incursion near them. Lowsec Incursions will suffer hard because the PVP makes the Incursion 10 times harder than it is. I know pay gets a signifigant bump up from highsec, but maybe its not enough.

2. belt and gate Sanshas? Maybe these were intentionally designed to be useless annoyance to bother miners in Incursion systems, but seriously? Just shooting at them equals a loss of isk. I dont think bounty is the answer here, but maybe something more creative, a special loot drop, keys to certain "private" encounter sites, SOMETHING that would make hunting these Sansha worthwile.

3. More sites? I know, I know, a week out and I am already complaining that there isn't enough content. I do love the objective based sites, but in the end most of the sites are kill sites with a twist, or kill sites that become boring after the guns stop (mining siteWink). Anyway, as the feature matures, I would strongly suggest continuing to add additional sites with more creative objectives. In reference to the above, perhaps "special" sites that are locked to all but the fleet carrying the entrance key or password. Perhaps ideas for this could be an alternate thread?

4. Is it just me, or do high-sec Incursion no longer last long enough for the majority of people to actually get to them. Buff up those Sansha and put the Incursion regain rate back up a little in high-sec at least.

Thats all for now, keep up the good work.

Its Over 9000
Posted - 2011.02.03 09:19:00 - [262]
 

THERE IS TOO FEW INCURSIONS!

Melisandra Palenis
Posted - 2011.02.03 09:21:00 - [263]
 

Tried running a vanguard site - was just starting to get somewhere then a another fleet comes through, completes it gets the reward we get nothing - reward for effort = O I understand we may have to get better at this but by the time we refitted and were ready for another go it was all over. Which leads me to my next point.....

The incursions dont last long enough in hisec to be worth going for. Majority of my corp have fulltime jobs so if one spawns after DT (we are aussies so usually stop at DT) it is pretty much done by the time we log in 18 hours later. Sorry CCP but this is pretty much a nil content expansion for me unless the sites last long enough to allow other time zones to get in on the action.

My suggestion is set whatever you have as the upper limit of sansha control points a lot higher but decay at the present rate so it takes 2-3 times as long to clear an incursion.

Just my 2cents but you asked. Although my expectation is nothing wil happen and this will become like all the other half finished content in eve.

prospector oen
Posted - 2011.02.03 11:46:00 - [264]
 

the only problem is that there are still no impact on 00 maybe its a good thing its about dead anyway

Locupleto
Malicious Destruction
War Against the Manifest
Posted - 2011.02.03 14:12:00 - [265]
 

How is the balance of the sites within their own tier? For example, is there any Vanguard site that is considerably more difficult/time consuming than the others?

We have done plenty of Vanguard sites. Our order of preference is to run Nation Commander, then Mining Colony, and then afk and if there is nothing else maybe we will do an override.

Override is annoying to do, and takes by far the most time to complete.

What set-ups are you successfully using for what sites?

We are running a shield rep fleet. With three shield logiís we find there is flexibility in what people can fly in vanguards. With good fits and the three logiís we handle these with ease using 6 ships or more. We have a frig with a mining laser and code breaker to help in the sites that need these.

We have migrated to pre-mining ore from a completed Mining Colony to use on the next several.

Been in a crew using one Vindacator and 3 logi that worked quite well for vanguards.

We are also starting to run some Civilian Facility sites if we have 10 people or better but feel we need 4 logi in these. We have completed one with three logiís but we nearly lost ships when the NPCís got clever with us. (Kudos CCP AI peeps!)

Are there any objectives/functions within sites that are working poorly?

Overrides hacking mechanic is alloying more than fun. The logi tower recovers and the whole fleet has to pause and just wait a few cycles for the tower to be hacked again. This is not exciting. It seems the tower recovers too fast and we have to re-hack too often for this to be fun.

Would be OK if these went away or at least underwent revision.

What general issues would you like to point out at this point?

Not enough incursions spawn in high-sec. The ones that do are quickly overwhelmed by players and quickly completed. Then we can go hours or a day before we see another. So we end up with people who are interested in doing them but unable.

Since you donít know if one will spawn soon or not you do know when it does spawn it will be around only a few hours. You donít want to miss it and stand-by ready. Standing-by ready for the next incursion to show up is not compelling game play.

Because incursions are crowded it isnít uncommon for one fleet to step on another already working on a site. When this happens it isnít clear which fleet is going to get credit.

After doing the sites a few times they become quite predictable. Would be nice if there were more random factors. It becomes boring when you kill the trigger get the next spawn of the same makeup as the last time you ran the site.

The HQ site, when it spawns is quickly overwhelmed by interested players. Itís not so much a challenge as it is a race to get in there. Perhaps if there were more sites this wouldnít be.

It is great to have available PvE you can work on as a group, yet doesnít require a long term commitment like wormholes. These sites are largly new and fresh, I think that is a factor in how fun they are. But in the Vanguards at least they are quite predictable. You know what spawn is next after you have done a few. After doing enough these become less interesting and more of a snooze and cruise. Would be more fun if there were random factors built into what spawn comes after another.

Will end with - the NPC AI is awesome. Really having a lot more fun because of it.

Paarlander
Posted - 2011.02.03 17:32:00 - [266]
 

0.0 incursions are lame and take waaaaaaaaaaay to long

Sabuto
Caldari
The Huns
Posted - 2011.02.03 17:43:00 - [267]
 

CCP,

I totally understand where you guys are going with this incursion idea, but to be honest and with all my respect for the amazing work you do,in my 6 years of playing eve, this is one of the most pathetic thing you guys ever did.

Keep the incursions in empire and out of 0.0!




Illectroculus Defined
No Bull Ships
Posted - 2011.02.03 17:54:00 - [268]
 

Originally by: IceGuerilla

For RP reasons, I would suggest that the incursions be programmed not to occur in already Sansha-held space, particularly their home region Stain.


These sansha are so different than the regular sansha we've been running missions for that I could easily imagine this new threat has split off and sees itself as the True Sansha, the new order which will let nothing stand in its way.

TREMENDOJ
Los Chupacabras
Posted - 2011.02.03 18:00:00 - [269]
 

Keep the incursions in empire and out of 0.0!

Keep the incursions in empire and out of 0.0!

Keep the incursions in empire and out of 0.0!

MindRanger
Gallente
FISKL GUARDS
Posted - 2011.02.03 18:11:00 - [270]
 

Ok, so now the good residents of 0.0 have been imposed to a largely annoying element of PVE. Most of the 0.0 residents I know, live in their space because they like activites such as PVP, and some occasional PVE activities to make sure they have the ISK needed to replenish lost ships.

Enforcing this nuisance called 'Sansha Incursion' in nullsec equals to me the same coolness level as blocking all gates in a constellation with huge asteroid belts, which only could be remedied by a 200 man hulk gang mining for 8 consecutive hours, before you could use the gate.

Just my $0.02


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