| Author |
Topic |
VARANUS69 |
Posted - 2011.01.17 16:33:00 - [ 91]
will ccp be reimbursing every one for who has invested alot of time and money in to the game? then suddenly you cant play thats not a good idea as most of the players are from forn countrys who dont have acses to the newer computers |
Karia Sur |
Posted - 2011.01.17 16:39:00 - [ 92]
Edited by: Karia Sur on 17/01/2011 16:39:41 Originally by: Callic Veratar
So, reading the full reaction here, what the players want is a game that will play on any system without noticeable lag, no matter the number of players in a system, that also looks good. If I were in your position, I'd consider myself lucky that I got 2 days notice that my computer still runs EVE until tomorrow.
complete BS, only 2 days notice just goes to show whar CCP thinks of minority groups within the Eve customer base. I'll be okay with this, but it doesnt mean that i dont feel sorry for anyone who specifically joined Eve for the Incursion expansion, who now finds out that CCP have had there money for 2 months or so before telling them, 'oh sorry, you cant play anymore'. This isnt a sudden change and anyone who thinks this was only decided 2 days ago is stupid. I also wonder what other 'surprises' will exist as no patch notes smells of 'trouble if we post what it contains' imo. edit:typo |
Illectroculus Defined
No Bull Ships
|
Posted - 2011.01.17 16:53:00 - [ 93]
Someone suggested that this was in the physics library, and I can see how that could be a problem with no easy resolution. I mean generally the way code works is that you develop the core functionality using plain old C which will work on every CPU, then at a later date you use things like SSE to improve performance where the features are available, there's no reason to remove the reference code.
One of the things that SSE2 lets you accelerate is floating point operations, but the floating point operations don't behave exactly like those in the x87 floating point processor, so in some cases the results can be slightly different due to the way temporary results are stored.
Now in Eve, everyone is running a copy of the physics simulation, and to avoid desync everyone needs to keep getting the same results. So, hypothetically if some users were running an x87 implementation and others were running and SSE2 optimized version we could see desyncs happening. Since the performance gain would be quite appreciable I can see that the anti-lag team might decide to start the servers running SSE2 physics and only later realise the effect on outside clients.
of course this is entirely guesswork..... |
DeftCrow Redriver
Gallente
Best Path Inc.
Cascade Imminent |
Posted - 2011.01.17 17:16:00 - [ 94]
Originally by: Illectroculus Defined
Snip
In that case, the removal of non-SSE2 CPUs from support will help the dev team migrate all physics simulation to the SSE2 compiled code base. Both the client and the server code will have to undergo an overhaul though. |
Lugor
Caldari
The Illuminatii
Mildly Intoxicated |
Posted - 2011.01.17 17:28:00 - [ 95]
does anyone know if AMD Turion X2 will be ok with this patch???? |
Illectroculus Defined
No Bull Ships
|
Posted - 2011.01.17 17:33:00 - [ 96]
Originally by: DeftCrow Redriver
Originally by: Illectroculus Defined
Snip
In that case, the removal of non-SSE2 CPUs from support will help the dev team migrate all physics simulation to the SSE2 compiled code base. Both the client and the server code will have to undergo an overhaul though.
I'm pretty sure the overhaul is -M_ENABLE_SSE2_PHYSICS when you compile the physics library..... |
War Kitten
Panda McLegion |
Posted - 2011.01.17 17:42:00 - [ 97]
Edited by: War Kitten on 17/01/2011 17:44:34
*jumped the gun - ignore*
|
Karia Sur |
Posted - 2011.01.17 17:48:00 - [ 98]
Originally by: DeftCrow Redriver
Originally by: Illectroculus Defined
Snip
In that case, the removal of non-SSE2 CPUs from support will help the dev team migrate all physics simulation to the SSE2 compiled code base. Both the client and the server code will have to undergo an overhaul though.
CPUs supporting SSE2 AMD K8-based CPUs (Athlon 64, Sempron 64, Turion 64, etc) AMD Phenom CPUs Intel NetBurst-based CPUs (Pentium 4, Xeon, Celeron, Celeron D, etc) Intel Pentium M and Celeron M Intel Core family (including Intel Core 2, Intel Core i5, Intel Core i7) Intel Atom Transmeta Efficeon VIA C7 VIA Nano |
LordElfa
Gallente
Golden Lyon Warriors
|
Posted - 2011.01.17 17:54:00 - [ 99]
|
thegallenteamarrguy |
Posted - 2011.01.17 17:58:00 - [ 100]
Edited by: thegallenteamarrguy on 17/01/2011 17:58:55
And now I wait for the tasty tears of the cheapest of the cheap. If you haven't upgraded by now, come on. |
thegallenteamarrguy |
Posted - 2011.01.17 18:02:00 - [ 101]
Edited by: thegallenteamarrguy on 17/01/2011 18:09:28 Originally by: VARANUS69
will ccp be reimbursing every one for who has invested alot of time and money in to the game? then suddenly you cant play thats not a good idea as most of the players are from forn countrys who dont have acses to the newer computers
Do you not see the EXTREME error in your thinking here? If your country doesn't have access to new computers, it doesn't have access to an internet speed capable of playing eve. In short: No, that'd be stupid. |
James Giovanni |
Posted - 2011.01.17 18:08:00 - [ 102]
*checks cpu of 50$ cell phone* sse2! yay my phone can still run eve!  |
thegallenteamarrguy |
Posted - 2011.01.17 18:09:00 - [ 103]
Originally by: Lugor
does anyone know if AMD Turion X2 will be ok with this patch????
It's going to be perfectly fine. |
Nlex |
Posted - 2011.01.17 18:15:00 - [ 104]
Originally by: thegallenteamarrguy
If your country doesn't have access to new computers, it doesn't have access to an internet speed capable of playing eve.
In short: No, that'd be stupid.
EVE can be played on dial-up connection. And you won't see much lag, because it generates very little in terms of traffic. Only ping matters. |
Sire Magnus |
Posted - 2011.01.17 18:16:00 - [ 105]
THERE ARE NO WORDS FOR THE RAGE I FEEL RIGHT NOW !!!
I have been a dedicated capsuler for 6+ years ... I log in today to find out that I will not be able to log in tomorrow !!! WTFH !@!
If im going to upgrade I dont want to shell out money for someone elses used PC that will get nerfed again in the next 6 months! I'm going to need a new CPU ... which means a new motherboard .. which means new memory .. and a new video card ... which means windows will invalidate .. so it also means a new copy of windows .. ARRG!
That is compounded by the losses in game .. I have towers and labs to take down .. bpos in research that will need to be cancled .. investments based on market bubbles that will be gone before i can get back .. ive estimated my isk losses to over 2 billion at least and thats if I dont lose my starbase structures ... so doing some basic math 2b isk -> 6 plex -> $90 USD in comparable game value on top of the hardware costs.
I don't know where they think all this money is going to come from ... I guess I should feel happy for all the players who can afford to buy new systems that will depreciate 30% in the first 4 weeks of owning them .. but this isn't really about them. It's about CCP's decision to kill off some portion (any portion)of their user base with no warning what so ever! When they upgraded to premium graphics content they gave plenty of warning time and that was a far less costly upgrade!
PUSHING THIS PATCH OUT FOR NO OTHER REASON THAN TO MEET AN ARBITRARY DEADLINE IS COMPLETELY IRRESPONSIBLE, TO THE POINT OF BORDERING ON INCOMPETENCE |
thegallenteamarrguy |
Posted - 2011.01.17 18:18:00 - [ 106]
Originally by: Sire Magnus
THERE ARE NO WORDS FOR THE RAGE I FEEL RIGHT NOW !!!
I have been a dedicated capsuler for 6+ years ... I log in today to find out that I will not be able to log in tomorrow !!! WTFH !@!
If im going to upgrade I dont want to shell out money for someone elses used PC that will get nerfed again in the next 6 months! I'm going to need a new CPU ... which means a new motherboard .. which means new memory .. and a new video card ... which means windows will invalidate .. so it also means a new copy of windows .. ARRG!
That is compounded by the losses in game .. I have towers and labs to take down .. bpos in research that will need to be cancled .. investments based on market bubbles that will be gone before i can get back .. ive estimated my isk losses to over 2 billion at least and thats if I dont lose my starbase structures ... so doing some basic math 2b isk -> 6 plex -> $90 USD in comparable game value on top of the hardware costs.
I don't know where they think all this money is going to come from ... I guess I should feel happy for all the players who can afford to buy new systems that will depreciate 30% in the first 4 weeks of owning them .. but this isn't really about them. It's about CCP's decision to kill off some portion (any portion)of their user base with no warning what so ever! When they upgraded to premium graphics content they gave plenty of warning time and that was a far less costly upgrade!
PUSHING THIS PATCH OUT FOR NO OTHER REASON THAN TO MEET AN ARBITRARY DEADLINE IS COMPLETELY IRRESPONSIBLE, TO THE POINT OF BORDERING ON INCOMPETENCE
Trollface.jpg? Buy anything today and something better will be here tomorrow, boohoo. Thats just the way it is. |
Shintai
Gallente
Arx Io Orbital Factories
Arx Io |
Posted - 2011.01.17 18:20:00 - [ 107]
Originally by: Bhattran
Originally by: Shintai
Good to see CCP move forward. Both in terms of SM3 and now SSE2. It gives greater playing experience. And if you got such an old PC...its really time to upgrade.
Nothing worse than stuck in legacy times penalizing everyone.
What might be worse is software development that drives people to ditch perfectly adequate hardware to spur sales of new hardware/software. If it works why do you need to trash it and get something new? The answer is we 'need' new software and won't support the old or decide to make use of technologies not present in the old, regardless if they are truly needed/useful. Hardware and software go hand in hand trying to get consumers spend money on new products all the while we toss out 'old' technology like it is worthless. Every year computer hardware is sent to the trash hopefully for recyclers to make money off of when disposed of properly and sent to a landfill when it isn't.
It all sounds nice and dandy. But in that case we should drive around in 50year old cars, run computers with 286 CPus and so on. Stay with PSTN modems because its a waste to upgrade to DSL and so on. |
thegallenteamarrguy |
Posted - 2011.01.17 18:20:00 - [ 108]
Originally by: Nlex
Originally by: thegallenteamarrguy
If your country doesn't have access to new computers, it doesn't have access to an internet speed capable of playing eve.
In short: No, that'd be stupid.
EVE can be played on dial-up connection. And you won't see much lag, because it generates very little in terms of traffic. Only ping matters.
Okay, then if you don't have access to better computers in your country, you shouldn't be playing in the first place. His argument is flawed regardless. |
Dirk Decibel |
Posted - 2011.01.17 18:28:00 - [ 109]
Hm, I still know quite some folks with an Athlon XP. Ok, they're not gamers but still, I don't think it's that weird if you are still running one.
|
Kari Trace
Caldari
Nox Imperium
|
Posted - 2011.01.17 18:37:00 - [ 110]
|
T'zuki Hiro |
Posted - 2011.01.17 18:38:00 - [ 111]
Originally by: Karia Sur
IMO the issue is not that some people will need to upgrade their systems in order to continually play Eve as thats expected. What is the issue is that this is mentioned 48hrs prior to the expansion. CCP saying this has just come to light is absolute BS imo.
I'm one of the people caught out by this and it's not that I need to upgrade that's annoying, it's that we got so little warning. And for all those who say *it's your fault for running an old box*, well not all of us can afford the newest, lastest hardware because we have to get by on disabilty welfare payments. |
PTang |
Posted - 2011.01.17 18:56:00 - [ 112]
Originally by: T'zuki Hiro
Originally by: Karia Sur
IMO the issue is not that some people will need to upgrade their systems in order to continually play Eve as thats expected. What is the issue is that this is mentioned 48hrs prior to the expansion. CCP saying this has just come to light is absolute BS imo.
I'm one of the people caught out by this and it's not that I need to upgrade that's annoying, it's that we got so little warning.
And for all those who say *it's your fault for running an old box*, well not all of us can afford the newest, lastest hardware because we have to get by on disabilty welfare payments.
I've seen the light, my opinion is changed (updates 1st post) even if you wanted to upgrade, unless you pay60$ shipping on a 20$ cpu, you won't have a computer intime for the expansion. That's not cool. |
Captain Campion
Viziam
|
Posted - 2011.01.17 19:03:00 - [ 113]
SO BAD if you threw it in the river, the river would throw it back!
shop --> |
Miso Hawnee |
Posted - 2011.01.17 19:07:00 - [ 114]
Originally by: Sire Magnus
PUSHING THIS PATCH OUT FOR NO OTHER REASON THAN TO MEET AN ARBITRARY DEADLINE IS COMPLETELY IRRESPONSIBLE, TO THE POINT OF BORDERING ON INCOMPETENCE
I didn't realize this was a Dominion thread. |
Fred Munro
Gallente
Silicis Luguolo |
Posted - 2011.01.17 19:10:00 - [ 115]
Other than the short notice, I see no problem with this change, well I doubt my i7 is effected anyway :P
For a game to progress in any good way, including the road to Incarna, will need players to upgrade their gaming rigs, obviously the financial implications are annoying at best, but there isn't any way around it.
Personally, I want to see more eye candy... :D |
Lithia Tsanov |
Posted - 2011.01.17 19:27:00 - [ 116]
For the record, I believe that this new requirement is absolutely ******ed. |
Mynas Atoch
Eternity INC.
Goonswarm Federation |
Posted - 2011.01.17 19:27:00 - [ 117]
Edited by: Mynas Atoch on 17/01/2011 20:00:21Edited by: Mynas Atoch on 17/01/2011 19:50:37Its the short notice that's the problem. I've been running three accounts simultaneously on this PC, an Athlon XP2200+ for years. With this change, I won't leave the game, but I can certainly get rid of three of my accounts as there is no way I'll be able to use them. Ach, it was past time to cut back anyway. Just like banning smoking in pubs gave me the incentive to quit smoking, this will probably put a smile on my wife's face. Originally by: "draft.petition"
As instructed in the pre Incursion 1.1.0 post, I am requesting assistance with the anticipated CPU problems. Like many multi account players I use older hardware to run multiple PCs. This machine has been happily running one account in pvp, and three accounts max when running cyno chains or PVE for many years.
If this issue is going to be resolved, quickly, I'm happy to keep my accounts active and training, but if not, I would appreciate early notification so I can cut back from my current seven accounts to the three or four that my remaining PC will be able to run.
So .. any suggestions on games I can subscribe to with the monthly saving of at least three subscriptions? Alternatively instead of CCP getting the monthly revenue for these three accounts I can spend it on a better phone to use eve gate from the train to work. I'm glad I'm not trying to run a games company .. the economics is so counter-intuitive. |
Illectroculus Defined
No Bull Ships
|
Posted - 2011.01.17 19:41:00 - [ 118]
It just seems to suck for everyone involved, I hope Eve customer support will be able to offer refunds to affected individuals, since 2 days is not enough time to get a new system, especially when one of those days is a weekend, and the next is a holiday in the US. A replacement graphics card at short notice is easy, but a CPU need Motherboard, memory and most likely an OS reinstall, easier to just buy a new system.
Having done some poking around I'm thinking that it's not likely to be destiny, it's more likely to be related to the physics engine used for hair and clothes in the new character generator. (Although they may have updated destiny to make use of this?).
Which is unfortunate because as recently as July there was a lot of technical bad press surrounding PhysX for being overly reliant on x87 and not using the accelerated SSE2 instructions. The conspiracy minded were arguing this was a deliberate ploy by Nvidia to sell more graphics cards (which would handle some of the physics).
Anyway... I can live without physical simulations of hair.
|
Vaneshi SnowCrash |
Posted - 2011.01.17 19:43:00 - [ 119]
Originally by: Hockston Axe
Originally by: Father Goose
Originally by: Stupid McStupidson
Well. Everyone laughed when I bemoaned the ending of support for Commodore 64's, now who's laughing?
BEHOLD! YOUR NEW COMMODORE!
I’ve still got my Commodore 64 and a couple of Atari’s. They even still work probably.
I hate you! I've now simply got to weld my ancient Atari ST 520FM to my network and somehow... somehow get EVE running on it. X forwarding? Hmmm.... *deploys google* You're a git and everyone in this house is about to hate you :D |
Ormus Vinge |
Posted - 2011.01.17 19:43:00 - [ 120]
Edited by: Ormus Vinge on 17/01/2011 19:47:00The Problem here is NOT the update of Hardware needed. I MEAN TWO DAYS? In my case, Amd XP3200 runs fine for all I need to do. EVE is the only game I play, so I also don't need the latest updates in hardware. Even the CAD software I use, runs FINE on my system. AMD XP3200, 2 gig ram, directX10 graphics, 1 TB HD. So the old part is the board and CPU, which forces me to buy completely new Hardware. Since I don't want to take the Risk getting a used system which maybe outdated by a next Patch CCP announces, I'm forced to buy a decent system for about 500 Euro which will maybe delivered in the next 5-10 days. And ofc money seems to grow on trees in Iceland. NICE JOB CCP, WELL DONE! @ wise guys: Pls stop arrogant postings about people who don't have the latest Hardware for any reason. Not necessary, we got ****ed already. yours sincerly me p.s. I've calculated that 0.3% of all CCP employees are ... nvm |
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