| Author |
Topic |
Kalened |
Posted - 2011.01.05 19:14:00 - [ 1]
I've had some free time on my hands the last few days and decided to try some level 4 missions. Do people really use Machariel's in PVE?
With hammerhead 2's, I get just over 1000dps with 4k optimal and 69k falloff.
Any suggestions?
Here's my setup:
[Machariel, Mach 1]
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II
100MN Afterburner II
Pith A-Type X-Large Shield Booster
Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field
Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field
Shadow Serpentis Tracking Computer
800mm Repeating Artillery II, EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, EMP L
Small Tractor Beam I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Hobgoblin II x5
Warrior II x5
Hammerhead II x5
|
Sessym
Amarr |
Posted - 2011.01.05 19:23:00 - [ 2]
Yes, people do use it for PVE, but you shouldn't forget two things:
That DPS looks good on paper, but if you're not running against angel, or rats that orbit at <15km, you'll be doing about a third of it.
And second, it's a faction BS. They tend to get expensive modules. It'll be a huge 'GANK ME' sign on your rear. |
Seraph Castillon
Gallente |
Posted - 2011.01.05 19:24:00 - [ 3]
Edited by: Seraph Castillon on 05/01/2011 19:27:56
Yes, they do. This is better:
[Machariel, ...]
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Core C-Type 100MN Afterburner
Gist C-Type X-Large Shield Booster
Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field
Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Phased Plasma L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Phased Plasma L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Phased Plasma L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Phased Plasma L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Phased Plasma L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Phased Plasma L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Phased Plasma L
Drone Link Augmentor I
Large Projectile Collision Accelerator II
Large Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
[empty rig slot]
Bouncer II x4
Warrior II x5
Medium drones are useless. Use sentries or heavies.
I also have my doubts about the range this has (and the effective damage at that range). I'm getting one soon so we'll see. It does do 500+ m/s.
|
NoNah |
Posted - 2011.01.05 19:35:00 - [ 4]
Yes, machariel is one of the absolute best mission runners. Details of the setup isn't that relevant as long as you stick to the basics of 4 gyro/3 TE, 800mm, AB setups. Wether you like micromanaging a higher resistance tank or going with an injector and being a bit more screwup friendly is just a matter of preference - the income difference is neglectable.
As for the rigs, I much prefer the aerator, even if the ammocosts increases slightly the extra dps is so very much worth it. |
Kalened |
Posted - 2011.01.05 19:43:00 - [ 5]
 Originally by: Sessym
Yes, people do use it for PVE, but you shouldn't forget two things:
That DPS looks good on paper, but if you're not running against angel, or rats that orbit at <15km, you'll be doing about a third of it.
And second, it's a faction BS. They tend to get expensive modules. It'll be a huge 'GANK ME' sign on your rear.
I purposely went with a bit cheaper shield booster and avoided the billion isk boosters. I have noticed that when things get inside 15k, I struggle a bit but that's why i have drones. A set of lights for frigates and mediums for anything else I can't track. I really try to kill as much of the small stuff as i can when they are far away and that has been working pretty well. |
Pheusia
Gallente
The Initiative. |
Posted - 2011.01.05 20:01:00 - [ 6]
Originally by: Sessym
Yes, people do use it for PVE, but you shouldn't forget two things:
That DPS looks good on paper, but if you're not running against angel, or rats that orbit at <15km, you'll be doing about a third of it.
Right, because if there's one ship that cant run down rats and engage them at at range of its choosing it's the Machariel, right?  I mean it's not like it cant get close to 600m/s with an RF Afterburner after all. And a 70Km falloff means "1/3 damage at >15Km"? The things we learn on the forums never cease to amaze. OP's fit is p much fine; I know because it's very close to the one I use myself. Only quibble I'd have with it is that I'd use an RF/Domi Afterburner. |
Guillame Herschel
Gallente
NME1
|
Posted - 2011.01.05 20:04:00 - [ 7]
Originally by: NoNah
As for the rigs, I much prefer the aerator, even if the ammocosts increases slightly the extra dps is so very much worth it.
You know they are stack-nerfed with the ROF boost from the four gyros, right? The aerator rig adds negligible dps by the time its folded, spindled and mutilated bonus is tacked on at the end. |
NoNah |
Posted - 2011.01.05 20:17:00 - [ 8]
Originally by: Guillame Herschel
Originally by: NoNah
As for the rigs, I much prefer the aerator, even if the ammocosts increases slightly the extra dps is so very much worth it.
You know they are stack-nerfed with the ROF boost from the four gyros, right? The aerator rig adds negligible dps by the time its folded, spindled and mutilated bonus is tacked on at the end.
Actually, other way around. The rig isn't stacking penalized at all, however it causes all of the gyros to be. The largest bonus is always counted first, and as the 15% bonus of a rig is noticably greater than the 10.5% of a gyro... it's the only one that DOESN'T get penalized. It adds some 5-6% dps on the setup I suggested, a tad less if you factor in reloads, which on a machariel amounts to some 70-80 dps. Quite a noticable increse. |
Cyrus Mierre
The Forsaken Legion |
Posted - 2011.01.05 20:36:00 - [ 9]
|
NoNah |
Posted - 2011.01.05 20:45:00 - [ 10]
Originally by: Cyrus Mierre
Just to clarify; NoNah means t2 rigs. T2 rigs are not stacked the same way as damage mods.
They are, the effect is just caused by the lack of any gyros with a RoF boost of more than 10.5%. The exact same principle could be applied to a setup using only "Basic Gyrostabilizers" and a T1 Aerator. |
Nanferr |
Posted - 2011.01.05 21:38:00 - [ 11]
Stacking or not stacking, Any PVE Ship deserves to get 7-8 effective damage increasing mods.
For Machariel it would be T2 Aetor, 4 Gyrostabs and 3 Tracking Enhancers
For Nightmare it would be T2 Aetor, 4 Heat Sinks 1 tracking enhancer and 2 tracking computers.
For Tengu/CNR its 1 Target painter, 4 BCU's 2 T2 Rigors and 1 T2 Flare Rig
For Golem its 4 Target painters, 4 BCU's (cuz their rigs are range rigs) |
Headerman
Minmatar
Quovis
Shadow of xXDEATHXx |
Posted - 2011.01.05 22:28:00 - [ 12]
Edited by: Headerman on 05/01/2011 22:28:55
I prefer this setup... although i would swap in a DG X-Large booster for some cost savings :P
To the OP, the Mach is VERY much a PVE ship, so feel fine to use it as such, people will be envious :)
[Machariel, New Setup 1]
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Tracking Enhancer
Republic Fleet Tracking Enhancer
Republic Fleet Tracking Enhancer
Damage Control II
Pith C-Type X-Large Shield Booster
Invulnerability Field II
Invulnerability Field II
Republic Fleet 100MN Afterburner
Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma L
[empty high slot]
Large Polycarbon Engine Housing II
Large Polycarbon Engine Housing I
Large Polycarbon Engine Housing I
Ogre II x4
Warrior II x5
2 types of tank: Speed first, then shields. But thats just me.
I also like the heavy drones as opposed to sentries cause i fly around alot |
Von Kapiche
Minmatar |
Posted - 2011.01.05 23:04:00 - [ 13]
Edited by: Von Kapiche on 05/01/2011 23:04:15
Heh, even that is overtanked; not been near mine in a while but I'm pretty sure it's got a Pith B Large ( no not XL ) which doesn't need a cap booster. Rest is the same as I thought it would be even before Dominion arrived, and pretty much the same conclusion everyone else arrived at ( altho I jumped on the T2 aerator bandwagon somewhere ). Autotargetter is a nice utility slot item though. |
LordInvisible
Gallente
Nova Ardour
|
Posted - 2011.01.06 16:11:00 - [ 14]
I've thought that mach is awesome in PvE until i tried paladin.. If u have skills, go for paladin, much more awesome.. |
NoNah |
Posted - 2011.01.06 16:22:00 - [ 15]
Originally by: LordInvisible
I've thought that mach is awesome in PvE until i tried paladin.. If u have skills, go for paladin, much more awesome..
I have all but pulse and beam spec 5 for both paladin and nightmare. If I had to pick one of the two, I'll take mach any day of the week. Not because it's always better than the nightmare, but it doesn't have the same really weak spots. |
Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
|
Posted - 2011.01.06 17:20:00 - [ 16]
Originally by: LordInvisible
I've thought that mach is awesome in PvE until i tried paladin.. If u have skills, go for paladin, much more awesome..
I have tried Navy Raven, Paladin, Nightmare and Machariel. While Paladin/Nightmare is great against Bloods and Sansha they never rise above par with Machariel (standard T2 fit). Against any other rat type it is no contest whatsoever, Mach just blows all others out of the water. Last mission I ran was Enemies Abound 5/5 against Matari and the target gate went pop just as the first wave arrived - that is after I already popped the initial spawn .. never even got close to that kind of speed before. Cannot even begin to imagine how it would do with a faction fit .. scary effective with basic T2 modules. |
Lady Aja |
Posted - 2011.01.07 01:18:00 - [ 17]
Doing Enemies Abound 5/5 is a waste of time if you are not going to farm the tags Makes lp store so much more profitable if you collect em all. Originally by: Hirana Yoshida
Originally by: LordInvisible
I've thought that mach is awesome in PvE until i tried paladin.. If u have skills, go for paladin, much more awesome..
I have tried Navy Raven, Paladin, Nightmare and Machariel.
While Paladin/Nightmare is great against Bloods and Sansha they never rise above par with Machariel (standard T2 fit). Against any other rat type it is no contest whatsoever, Mach just blows all others out of the water.
Last mission I ran was Enemies Abound 5/5 against Matari and the target gate went pop just as the first wave arrived - that is after I already popped the initial spawn .. never even got close to that kind of speed before.
Cannot even begin to imagine how it would do with a faction fit .. scary effective with basic T2 modules.
|
Culmen
Caldari
Culmenation
|
Posted - 2011.01.07 07:09:00 - [ 18]
Edited by: Culmen on 07/01/2011 07:39:00Mach for missions is not blasphemy. You ask for best level 4 missioner in the game, and many people immediately point to the Mach Originally by: Seraph Castillon
Edited by: Seraph Castillon on 05/01/2011 19:27:56
Yes, they do. This is better:
[Machariel, ...]
Medium drones are useless. Use sentries or heavies.
I also have my doubts about the range this has (and the effective damage at that range). I'm getting one soon so we'll see. It does do 500+ m/s.
I use something similar [Machariel, Mission mach] Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Tracking Enhancer II Tracking Enhancer II Tracking Enhancer II Shadow Serpentis 100MN Afterburner Caldari Navy X-Large Shield Booster Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field Invulnerability Field II Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 800 800mm Repeating Artillery II, EMP L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, EMP L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, EMP L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, EMP L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, EMP L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, EMP L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, EMP L Small Tractor Beam I Large Ionic Field Projector I Large Projectile Metastasis Adjuster II Large Projectile Metastasis Adjuster II Hobgoblin II x5 Ogre II x4 The key difference is the rigs. First off the Mach's Targeting range is a **** poor 77.5km, considering the range the mach can sling DPS (69km falloff) this is unacceptable. The rig bumps it up to 96.88 km. You really don't need more tank, so save your money on all those deadspace mods. The t2 invul field is a placeholder for a rat specific hardener. Now the T2 damage rig isn't doing a whole lot, considering it's stacking nerfed with 4 modules that give very similar damage bonuses(+12.5% vs +15%). That alot of isk for +32 DPS. I replaced it with two T2 tracking rigs, the key difference is that the three tracking enhancers each only give +9.5% tracking, compared with the +20% for the rigs. The guns really put the hurt on the close orbiting cruisers and can occasionally score a hit on a kited frig. As for the ogres... well that one you can really debate. I personally prefer to use the Mach superior speed to get in really close to the ships, leaving sentries open to a new wave is just not a risk I'd rather take. Also, Ive tried the Nightmare, Golem, Vargur and Mach. Mach is still my favorite for anything non-EM weak. Nightmare has to pick minor-tracking(really struggles with cruisers <10km) or cap issues and really sucks for Angels, Golem is too short range with torps (even with t2 ammo) or not enough dps(with cruise), Vargur lacks the DPS. Mach has good DPS, good range, excellent tracking, and with the those three, who needs a tank? Given a choice Id do the Mach for everything but Sansha's and Blood Raiders. But unlike the Paladin/Nightmare, the Mach doesn't suck at them, it's just not as good. |
Ziaxi |
Posted - 2011.01.07 10:12:00 - [ 19]
Originally by: Culmen
[Machariel, Mission mach]
I, too, like my ionic field projector. In fact the only difference to mine is I have a solidifier for a bit more burst tank, instead of the 2nd tracking rig. And a slightly pimpier AB. Nightmare, Paladin, Golem are all good ships, but they all currently sit in my hangar gathering dust. |
Deviana Sevidon
Gallente
Panta-Rhei
Butterfly Effect Alliance |
Posted - 2011.01.07 10:41:00 - [ 20]
Edited by: Deviana Sevidon on 07/01/2011 10:49:44
I still like the Machariel Armor tanked:
7x 800mm AC ll, 1 Heavy Nos ll
Gist-C 100MN AB, TS Stasis Webifier, 3x Capacitor Recharger ll
Core-X-Large Armor Repairer, 3x Armor Hardener ll, Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane ll, 2x Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Rigs: Auxilliary Nano Pump, Nanobot Accelerator, Semiconductor Memory Cells.
Drones: 2x Ogre ll, 2x Hammerhead ll, 1x Hornet ll, 5x Hornet ll.
About the tank, there are situations where a heavy tank is needed. Some missions are against mercenaries who usually have a high number of Webber-Frigs. In any situation where I can use the AB effectivly I need much less tank, because I can outrun most of the missile damage and avoid enemy turret fire. The falloff bonus is okay, but I still to have a close and personal relationship with them in Webifier range.
Anyone who thinks the Machariel is a Raven with guns is wrong. In this case you might be better served with a nightmare or a paladin. |
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