Posted - 2010.12.07 16:31:00 - [3]

 

Originally by: Natasha Hec

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Could just realise cloaked ships cant do anything to you cloaked and then just shoot it when its not cloaked

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Could just realie that a singel cloaked ship is cappible of hot droping an entire capital fleet on you the moment it decloaks making you dead real fast.

could also realize that EVE is the only game i know of that has cloaking technology and "NO" way to counter/make less effective the same technology

Posted - 2010.12.07 17:05:00 - [5]

 

Originally by: Natasha Hec

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Could just realise cloaked ships cant do anything to you cloaked and then just shoot it when its not cloaked

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Cloaked ships can provide intelligence and have an almost undetectable safe spot. So these ships excel in disrupting surprise attacks of enemy fleets without risk.

Posted - 2010.12.07 17:17:00 - [7]

 

Originally by: Elayae

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Originally by: Natasha Hec

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Could just realise cloaked ships cant do anything to you cloaked and then just shoot it when its not cloaked

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Cloaked ships can provide intelligence and have an almost undetectable safe spot. So these ships excel in disrupting surprise attacks of enemy fleets without risk.

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Thanks to intel anyone can do that, as long as your unprobable in like say a stilletto orany ship you can make unprobable. Also any ship can fit a cyno.

Yet another afk cloaky whine

you want to stop cloaks being such a 'great' tool for intel, make local like wh

Posted - 2010.12.07 18:07:00 - [9]

 

Originally by: mchief117

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Originally by: Natasha Hec

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Could just realise cloaked ships cant do anything to you cloaked and then just shoot it when its not cloaked

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Could just realie that a singel cloaked ship is cappible of hot droping an entire capital fleet on you the moment it decloaks making you dead real fast.

could also realize that EVE is the only game i know of that has cloaking technology and "NO" way to counter/make less effective the same technology

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False, in STO the cloaked ships are actually more durable .. and get a bonus when they decloak to attack, not to mention they can still cloak even if you are firing everything you got at them.

but in EvE ? ... when a ship is cloaked .. you can see on local, if you fly close, you can decloak it, if you lock, they cant cloak
and since they are basically tin cans, its very easy to kill.

so stop crying.

Posted - 2010.12.07 20:31:00 - [11]

 

Yes I am in favor of changing local to delayed mode.

No it's not about eliminating the intel issue or nerf cloaked ships.

Smartbombs are for close range only so not very useful when searching large areas.

This proposal is about giving other pilots a better chance at catching cloaked ships, while not destroying the cloaking mechanic or experience.

CCP can add a means for pilots to search for cloaked ships in large areas in such a way that their almost undetectable 'safe'spot can be found when hunting close to known warp locations like planets, stargates, moons, asteroid belts and stars. I.e. making cloaking and hunting cloaked ships more exciting, I think this proposal for an anti-cloak gun can do that.

Posted - 2010.12.07 22:00:00 - [13]

 

with that thing ... how do you expect covert ops or recons to run gate camps for scouting?
it is hard enough as it stands, we often kill 50% of the bombers that try to run through.

Posted - 2010.12.07 22:33:00 - [15]

 

Originally by: Black Dranzer

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What would the cloaked pilots get in return?

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Nothing.

Originally by: darius mclever

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with that thing ... how do you expect covert ops or recons to run gate camps for scouting?
it is hard enough as it stands, we often kill 50% of the bombers that try to run through.

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The chance of catching will increase a bit, I reckon.

Originally by: Magnus Orin

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Cloaking is completely balanced.

When was the last time a cloaked ship killed you, or anyone for that matter?

You are proposing a horrible solution to a problem that does not exist and you should feel bad about it.

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It's not about cloaked ships killing you. It's about creating an instant 'safe'spot that is undetectable. If any rookie pilot can use a cloaked ship and not get caught for a very long time, then the cloaking mechanic is somehow unbalanced. It seems cloaking ships have a 'I win' button for avoiding any nasty situation.

Please back-up your horrible solution argument.

Posted - 2010.12.07 22:47:00 - [17]

 

I'm still not convinced that cloaking is imbalanced. I'm all for nerfs, but only where I believe they're needed.

Elayae, I want to ask you something.

What, pray tell, do you believe cloaks are designed for?

Posted - 2010.12.07 23:43:00 - [19]

 

Originally by: darius mclever

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why is a cloaked ship in a safespot a problem? it cant harm you. and no the hot drop argument doesnt count. because for it to work they have to catch you doing stupid things. (like cynoing to a pos while cyno on the station would have been much smarter or cyno out of docking range.)

a cloaked ship cant lock you, cant shoot you. nothing. *especially* when it sits on a safespot. your module would only help those people who like to blob any one of out their area.

and it wouldnt increase the chance a bit. it would increase drastically. if you dont see that you fail at decloaking as it stands.

how people would use your module.
- fit ship for max agility
- sit right inside the gate
- as soon as the target decloaks -> hit approach
- your ship gets aligned towards the target.
- hit your gun.

almost impossible to miss. bye bye blockade runner, recons, bombers and covops.

consider thinking your idea through to the end before posting.

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The anti-cloak gun can be balanced by the the area effect size, the range limit and the activation or duration time of the module. This way you can increase the chances of catching ships while not overpowering the anti-cloak gun.

Originally by: Black Dranzer

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I'm still not convinced that cloaking is imbalanced. I'm all for nerfs, but only where I believe they're needed.

Elayae, I want to ask you something.

What, pray tell, do you believe cloaks are designed for?

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The cloaks are not the problem. It's catching cloaked ships that is unbalanced.

Currently cloaked ships have the element of surprise and can make opportunity attacks without risk while no defensive maneuver exists to counter it. Give the defenders a means (somewhat less powerful than the cloak) to find them and create an opportunity to attack the cloaked ships, this is not an unreasonable request.

Posted - 2010.12.07 23:52:00 - [21]

 

Originally by: Elayae

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The anti-cloak gun can be balanced by the the area effect size, the range limit and the activation or duration time of the module. This way you can increase the chances of catching ships while not overpowering the anti-cloak gun.

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ROFL. really. have you ever tried to decloak ships on a gate and had been successful. ever?

Originally by: Elayae

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Originally by: Black Dranzer

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I'm still not convinced that cloaking is imbalanced. I'm all for nerfs, but only where I believe they're needed.

Elayae, I want to ask you something.

What, pray tell, do you believe cloaks are designed for?

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The cloaks are not the problem. It's catching cloaked ships that is unbalanced.

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it is not

Originally by: Elayae

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Currently cloaked ships have the element of surprise and can make opportunity attacks without risk while no defensive maneuver exists to counter it.

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stay aligned. fit to fight. dont do stupid things (see my first post)

Originally by: Elayae

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Give the defenders a means (somewhat less powerful than the cloak) to find them and create an opportunity to attack the cloaked ships, this is not an unreasonable request.

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decloaking ships on a gate especially in 0.0 is relatively easy if you practice a bit. all it needs is a good ceptor and/or dictor pilot. now imagine bigger gate camps with 4-5 ceptors. 80% success rate in catching bombers is not rare.

Posted - 2010.12.08 09:13:00 - [23]

 

Originally by: Black Dranzer

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Originally by: Elayae

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The cloaks are not the problem. It's catching cloaked ships that is unbalanced.

Currently cloaked ships have the element of surprise and can make opportunity attacks without risk while no defensive maneuver exists to counter it. Give the defenders a means (somewhat less powerful than the cloak) to find them and create an opportunity to attack the cloaked ships, this is not an unreasonable request.

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You didn't answer my question.

What do you believe cloaking devices are designed for? What do you believe their purpose is?

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Quoting: "Cloaking devices allow a ship to maneuver while remaining completely undetectable by outside sensors." This is a powerful device.

Originally by: darius mclever

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Originally by: Elayae

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The anti-cloak gun can be balanced by the the area effect size, the range limit and the activation or duration time of the module. This way you can increase the chances of catching ships while not overpowering the anti-cloak gun.

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ROFL. really. have you ever tried to decloak ships on a gate and had been successful. ever?

Originally by: Elayae

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Originally by: Black Dranzer

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I'm still not convinced that cloaking is imbalanced. I'm all for nerfs, but only where I believe they're needed.

Elayae, I want to ask you something.

What, pray tell, do you believe cloaks are designed for?

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The cloaks are not the problem. It's catching cloaked ships that is unbalanced.

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it is not

Originally by: Elayae

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Currently cloaked ships have the element of surprise and can make opportunity attacks without risk while no defensive maneuver exists to counter it.

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stay aligned. fit to fight. dont do stupid things (see my first post)

Originally by: Elayae

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Give the defenders a means (somewhat less powerful than the cloak) to find them and create an opportunity to attack the cloaked ships, this is not an unreasonable request.

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decloaking ships on a gate especially in 0.0 is relatively easy if you practice a bit. all it needs is a good ceptor and/or dictor pilot. now imagine bigger gate camps with 4-5 ceptors. 80% success rate in catching bombers is not rare.

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1. Currently some gate camps use other means of catching cloaked ships by placing wrecks or containers, this anti-cloak gun is similar to that tactic. To answer your question on the contrary, my cloaked ship has never been caught, but it's not about me or you it's about the cloaking mechanic and experience.
2. We differ from opinion here, I think it is. Catching cloak ships is like a game of hide and seek, although the options for the seek part are underpowered. Realistically the anti-cloak gun works a bit like a sensor dampener it shoots a cloud of particles into an area, which has a de-cloaking effect.
3. If you fit to fight and add one prototype cloak to your ship, you have a powerful means to attack any unguarded or defenseless ships that needs to be moved. It looks a bit like docking games, which is not very exciting.
4. It's not all about stargates, it's also about all the other places within a solar system. Hmm you need 4-5 coordinating pilots to catch only 1 pilot with a success rate of 80%, it seems that cloaking is more powerful then the means to catch them in this situation.

Posted - 2010.12.08 11:12:00 - [25]

 

How about a couple different changes.

1) Let ECM Burst knock cloaked ships out of cloak -- *IF* the jamming effect works on it.
2) Apply a negative modifier to sensor strength while cloaked -- cloak type dependent penalty.

So when you cloak, your sensor strength goes down, making you more susceptible to ECM, but only AoE effects might hit you (and anyone/anything in the area -- friends, etc...) -- you already cannot use ECCM while cloaked...

Cloaks are listed under sensor equipment so it has a kind of logic to it and ECM Burst won't take a cloaked ship out of cloak right now. No new equipment, no real major changes to game logic -- add a mod to the sensor strength and apply existing mechanics. Just count the cloak as an "omni" or "self" targeting/targeted system while running so if the "targeting" is lost, the cloak turns off.

As for searching... Well, you'd have to pray and fly ships around popping that slow firing ECM burst. Sorry but I don't think anyone deserves a 100% freebie kill on cloaked ships and even this suggestion gets close to "can't get by gate-camps"...

Posted - 2010.12.08 11:57:00 - [27]

 

Edited by: Elayae on 08/12/2010 12:24:44

Originally by: Marak Mocam

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How about a couple different changes.

1) Let ECM Burst knock cloaked ships out of cloak -- *IF* the jamming effect works on it.
2) Apply a negative modifier to sensor strength while cloaked -- cloak type dependent penalty.

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I like this idea.

Originally by: Suitonia

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So this is basically a huge unneeded buff to gatecamps and doesn't address anything that people actually have problems with (like AFK cloaking).

Not Supported

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The nerf is as big or small as you like, the characteristics of the anti-cloak gun can easily be adjusted. It does address the AFK cloaking, it gives active pilots a chance to search all known warp spots in a solar system.

P.S. A weapon to de-cloak ships has already been developed but was not tested thoroughly to be implemented. The range and use is less sophisticated than the anti-cloak weapon that is presented here. http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online/item.php?type_id=15332

Posted - 2010.12.08 13:58:00 - [29]

 

The anti-cloak gun can not be activated within 10-15km from a stargate center, which is similar to the cloak function which can not be activated within 2km from an object. Added to proposal.