| Author |
Topic |
Hugo Syrus
Caldari
BZ night Corp |
Posted - 2010.11.13 14:38:00 - [ 1]
Edited by: Hugo Syrus on 15/11/2010 13:59:44Edited by: Hugo Syrus on 13/11/2010 15:13:09Edited by: Hugo Syrus on 13/11/2010 14:41:24Greetings  I'm pretty much new to EVE and have been learning mainly learning skills, so that I can have enough time to decide which ship to fly first without having any regret. After some extensive searching, I finally decided to use a marauder for maximum ISK/hour. I hear that Golem is hands down, but I kinda don't like missiles(personally, feels so boring even at frigate level  ) so now I have to decide between Paladin and Vargur(Kronos sucks, so they say). I couldn't find much info on Vargur vs Paladin in Ammatar space so.. will greatly appreciate some advice. First, a simple comparison I've made based on some threads: Paladin : Armor tank + repair bonus, Cap + Web + extra 25% damage bonus. Vargur : Shield tank + boost bonus, ROF + falloff + tracking bonus. My mission running corp will soon move to Ammatar, so I think I'll do missions for Ammatar Fleet. Assuming I'll do mainly Sansha/Blood missions... Paladin : armor's higher EM/TH resist. but no invuls. Sweet cap bonus and extra damage, though needs a decent webifier. Medium/Long range. Vargur : shield's lower EM/TH resist. but can fit invuls. Awesome combination of bonuses for ACs. Close range. Now it's beyond my knowledge... so- 1. What would you recommend between the two? 1-2. I know that Vargur should be fitted with 800mm ACs, but if I fly Paladin, what should I choose between Beam and Pulse? I like beams more, but will choose efficiency over aesthetics for this  and if you have any off-topic advice that will be useful for me, please give some without hesitation  (except 'use missilie boats', of course) |
Kassa Daito
Capital Construction Research
Pioneer Alliance |
Posted - 2010.11.13 14:56:00 - [ 2]
Edited by: Kassa Daito on 13/11/2010 14:58:11
Paladin will outperform Vargur vs Sanshas/Bloods by a noticeable margin, your primary rat types in Amarr/Ammatar space. Paladins need to be fit with Tachyon beams and a Fed Navy webifier IMO.
Vargurs will mop the floor with Paladins vs anything except Sansha/Blood. Both of them have trouble dealing with Guristas.
The Golem isn't an uber pwnmobile. Its primary advantage is the ability to kill every rat almost as efficiently as the true perfect ship for each rat type. You sacrifice a bit of efficiency in one area for being spectacularly flexible. As for it being boring, that's because you're not into the optimal style of running with a CMB. To get the best performance out of CMBs, you need a high-damage fit that isn't going to be cap-stable on its tank and you need to juggle cap boosters, shield boosters, target painters, and track the damage in-flight missiles will do when they hit so you can change targets before your current one dies. At the frigate and cruiser level, few of those are actually relevant. CMBs get a lot more involved at the BS class. PVE in general gets repetitive if you fit your ship out for permatanking instead of ISK-making efficiency. |
mmmPork |
Posted - 2010.11.13 16:29:00 - [ 3]
tl;dr
Use Google or EVE-search. |
Maihes Sehim
Amarr
Midnight Sentinels
Midnight Space Syndicate |
Posted - 2010.11.13 16:56:00 - [ 4]
 Originally by: mmmPork
tl;dr
Use Google or EVE-search.
Why so hostile? He asked an honest question based on who he runs missions through. He may not have noticed that it is predom Sansha and Blood Raider (if I recall correctly) where EM / Therm damage is plenty to butcher them and was asking for input from pilots that fly against those rats in ships he mentioned. OP's post isn't a "HELP I R KILL QUICK FIT THX!!!" |
mmmPork |
Posted - 2010.11.13 17:42:00 - [ 5]
Why so hostile? I was just offering my advice. |
Bruce Carraway |
Posted - 2010.11.13 18:40:00 - [ 6]
they are both excellent level 4 mission ships, but the Paladin will be better vs blood and sansha. tachyons are what you want fitted to a pali and i prefer the 2 tracking comp fit than fitting a webb. just kill the small stuff approaching you first and if the frig is already orbiting, let the light drones do its job.
if you want to use tachyons sooner for missions, check out the nightmare. you can get in one really quick (faction tachyons are expensive but worth it).
and amarr bs5 > slave bs5 |
Aqriue
Center for Advanced Studies |
Posted - 2010.11.13 19:16:00 - [ 7]
Edited by: Aqriue on 13/11/2010 19:20:58
Vargur, because using capless short range weapons out to 100kms with a fast rate of fire is so much more fun. Requires you to get Tech 2 guns, even with the off damage of kin/exp most rat frigs pop super easy while killing BS under 40km you don't even notice a fall off damage reduction and you have the option of changing ammo to fit the mission. As someone said, Vargur has a weakness vs Gurista and dealing Kinetic damage (Exp, EM, Therm are short range and twice the damage of kin) you have at least 3 empire rat factions beat unlike with a Paladin that only has 2 damage types. Plus, once you train gun skills + shield tank you can easily cross train for a golem or paladin where you only need to pick up either armor tank or missile skills. All of the vargur's bonuses are built in and do not require extra managing/skill training for a web or target painter. |
Hugo Syrus
Caldari
BZ night Corp |
Posted - 2010.11.14 00:50:00 - [ 8]
Edited by: Hugo Syrus on 15/11/2010 14:00:03Thanks for all the input. I think I'll probably go paladin for less skill intensive armor tanking, and look for other ships afterwards  |
Eri'kana Motugi |
Posted - 2010.11.14 02:22:00 - [ 9]
I've done quite a bit of mission running in both ships, and honestly, the Vargur seems to burn through them quicker, even against sansha's (not so much blood raiders). Sansha's tracking disrupt all the damn time, and it hurts the beams or pulses on a Paladin quite a bit, but NPC tracking disruptors don't affect falloff, so the Vargur doesn't care. The faster speed on the vargur is nice as well when you need to burn to the gates.
But in all honesty, the Machariel is so much more fun than either the pally or the vargur, and it does more damage, just doesn't have the handy long range tractor beams and uses more ammo. You can also train to it faster than a marauder. |
Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE |
Posted - 2010.11.14 06:03:00 - [ 10]
Originally by: Hugo Syrus
Paladin : ****ing lazorz!
Vargur : uses lots of ammo
fixed it for ya! both are nice ships but for sansha/bloods paladin! the blockade vs sansha is the only mission where tds are really annoying that I can remember. oh and paladin with 2x IN EANM + DCII and a meta 4 rep is pretty much omin-tanked for any mission. **** yea meta4! with a tachy fit it runs out of pg for a t2 rep, and I aint paying what it costs for a faction one! |
Ibridi
Matrix Blackstar's Mineral Consortium |
Posted - 2010.11.14 21:24:00 - [ 11]
Originally by: Hugo Syrus
Edited by: Hugo Syrus on 13/11/2010 15:13:09
Edited by: Hugo Syrus on 13/11/2010 14:41:24
Greetings I'm pretty much new to EVE and have been learning mainly learning skills, so that I can have enough time to decide which ship to fly first without having any regret.
After some extensive searching, I finally decided to use a marauder for maximum ISK/hour.
I hear that Golem is hands down, but I kinda don't like missiles(personally, feels so boring even at frigate level ) so now I have to decide between Paladin and Vargur(Kronos sucks, so they say).
I couldn't find much info on Vargur vs Paladin in Ammatar space so.. will greatly appreciate some advice.
First, a simple comparison I've made based on some threads:
Paladin : Armor tank + repair bonus, Cap + Web + extra 25% damage bonus.
Vargur : Shield tank + boost bonus, ROF + falloff + tracking bonus.
My mission running corp will soon move to Ammatar, so I think I'll do missions for Ammatar Fleet. Assuming I'll do mainly Sansha/Blood missions...
Paladin : armor's higher EM/TH resist. but no invuls. Sweet cap bonus and extra damage, though needs a decent webifier. Medium/Long range.
Vargur : shield's lower EM/TH resist. but can fit invuls. Awesome combination of bonuses for ACs. Close range.
Now it's beyond my knowledge... so-
1. What would you recommend between the two?
1-2. I know that Vargur should be fitted with 800mm ACs, but if I fly Paladin, what should I choose between Beam and Pulse? I like beams more, but will choose efficiency over aesthetics for this
and if you have any off-topic advice that will be useful for me, please give some without hesitation (except 'use missilie boats', of course)
Beware Ammatar fleet agents mostly suck now, because of the recent(tm) changes to the systems they send you to. By that i mean you get alot of lowsec missions. |
Headerman
Minmatar
Quovis
Shadow of xXDEATHXx |
Posted - 2010.11.15 04:08:00 - [ 12]
I'd go with the Vargur for speed and shield tanking. Leave the lows exclusively for damage mods.
plus the vargur also has very high em and therm resists as it is. |
William Cooly
Sol Enterprises |
Posted - 2010.11.15 13:34:00 - [ 13]
The real answer is a Nightmare. |
Hugo Syrus
Caldari
BZ night Corp |
Posted - 2010.11.15 13:59:00 - [ 14]
Edited by: Hugo Syrus on 15/11/2010 14:00:54Edited by: Hugo Syrus on 15/11/2010 13:59:32 Originally by: William Cooly
The real answer is a Nightmare.
I know nightmare's the Amarr mission blitz king, but I hear that salvaging on-the-go in a marauder is better, given that I just run single account. Maybe I'll get blitz ships if I get an indy alt or something(Noctis 80km tractor  ) but for now, I'll stick to marauders, I think. |
MoeJoe Green
Gallente
Empire Assault Corp
Dead Terrorists |
Posted - 2010.11.15 14:02:00 - [ 15]
Vargur... I've run lvl4 missions for ammatar some time ago, I remember quite alot of angel and Gurista missions which both are kinda crap to with lasers. |
Shoogie
Caldari
Serious Pixels
|
Posted - 2010.11.15 14:38:00 - [ 16]
Don't worry about tank. All of the marauders have sufficient tank to complete L4 missions. Also, the tanking skills are a small portion of all the skills in front of you before getting into a marauder.
The real question to ask about a PVE ship is what kind and how much damage can it project? The Paladin is stuck doing EM and Thermal damage. That is great vs Sanshas and Blood Raiders, but it is going to be painful when you get Angels and Guristas. The Vargur can change damage by changing ammo, and therefore is good against all enemies.
How certain are you that your corp will still be in Ammatar space when you finish training your marauder? |
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