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Dierdra Vaal
Caldari
Veto.
Veto Corp
Posted - 2010.11.09 11:11:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Dierdra Vaal on 09/11/2010 11:23:21
The Council of Stellar Management presents a public roundtable

When
Date: November 21st, 19:00 to 21:00 Eve time
Location: ingame chat channels 'CSM_roundtable_answers' and 'CSM_roundtable_questions'

What
The Council of Stellar Management is organising a public roundtable where you, the players, can ask us difficult questions about what we've been doing and how we've been doing it. CCP will be represented by CCP Xhagen, the CSM project manager, to field any questions you may have about the relationship between CCP and the CSM.

As the roundtable takes place aproximately three weeks before our December Summit with CCP, this will also help us determine if there are issues we need to discuss with CCP that have escaped our radar and provide some measure of how effective we've been in representing the playerbase.

The following topics are under consideration for the Summit agenda. Agenda items get one hour (or more) of in-depth discussion with the relevant developers.
* Post Dominion 0.0
* User Interface
* CSM Processes, Tools, and Evolution
* Economics/EVE Economy (double session?)
* Incarna Game Play
* Game Balance Requested by Players
* CSM Activities at FanFest 2011
* Microtransactions
* Quality Assurance at CCP

Note that this event is not intended to pitch your own CSM proposals or ask us "why the nighthawk doesn't get a bit more powergrid".


Johnathan Walker
Caldari
Posted - 2010.11.09 16:39:00 - [2]
 

Quote:
* CSM Processes, Tools, and Evolution


I am so there!

cerbus
Minor Annoyance...
Posted - 2010.11.10 05:59:00 - [3]
 

I'm so coming to hang out in the "CSM_roundtable_spahm" channel
Its been a while since you had one of these and I endorse this product and service.

Very HappyVery HappyVery Happy

Dierdra Vaal
Caldari
Veto.
Veto Corp
Posted - 2010.11.10 08:31:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: cerbus
I'm so coming to hang out in the "CSM_roundtable_spahm" channel
Its been a while since you had one of these and I endorse this product and service.

Very HappyVery HappyVery Happy


not sure if we've ever had one of these :o

CCP Xhagen

Posted - 2010.11.10 11:47:00 - [5]
 

I'll be there as well! ugh

Tather Demaleon
Posted - 2010.11.10 18:12:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Dierdra Vaal
not sure if we've ever had one of these :o


There have been CSM members answering questions in premade channels for this purpose before, maybe not with this level of involvement though.


TeaDaze
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
Posted - 2010.11.10 18:37:00 - [7]
 

Edited by: TeaDaze on 10/11/2010 18:38:12
Originally by: Tather Demaleon
Originally by: Dierdra Vaal
not sure if we've ever had one of these :o


There have been CSM members answering questions in premade channels for this purpose before, maybe not with this level of involvement though.


There were a few candidate roundtables organised by Mynxee which a number of us took part in during the CSM5 elections.

Looking forward to this one.

wr3cks
Reliables Inc
BricK sQuAD.
Posted - 2010.11.10 22:55:00 - [8]
 

I'm a bit confused about what the point of this is.

The CSM has approved, what, 200 proposals by now? And yes, that list includes things like a rebalance of field commands -- why doesn't the nighthawk get more grid? (and another midslot and a higher base shield recharge to compensate)...

I understand that you don't want Cromo Effect/Double Dee showing up to ramble about their own hairbrained schemes, but are we not to ask about particular proposals that have already been approved and gone nowhere? If not, what's the point?

And honestly, even if we are, what's the point of that? Hey, remember that stuff that we have been asking for over the past two years? We still want it.

Please provide some examples of questions that you think are appropriate, because your example of a long-standing balance issue as something that is not to be discussed is totally baffling.

Dierdra Vaal
Caldari
Veto.
Veto Corp
Posted - 2010.11.11 11:20:00 - [9]
 

Edited by: Dierdra Vaal on 11/11/2010 11:21:25
Originally by: wr3cks
I understand that you don't want Cromo Effect/Double Dee showing up to ramble about their own hairbrained schemes, but are we not to ask about particular proposals that have already been approved and gone nowhere?


Because there's not much we can tell you about specific proposals (either due to NDA or because there's simply not much to say). Issues that have been approved by the CSM and CCP have gone into the development backlog. The fact that they havent been implemented yet is because so far other things have taken priority when it comes to development time. I want to avoid the whole roundtable to digress in 2 hours of players asking "What about issue X" and us answering "It's in the backlog". Similarly, using the roundtable to say "hey I have an idea, can you guys bring it to CCP?" will only get you the answer of "we'll look at it after the roundtable".

To get answers to questions like that, its more effective to contact delegates directly (outside meetings). It's ok, we don't bite ;)

Instead, focus on the general process. Is the CSM delivering what you, the player, expect from it? Are we giving players enough information and do you feel represented? If there are problems and people feel certain areas of the process should be improved, how can we do that? Also, if there are major issues in Eve that we need to discuss with CCP that have escaped our attention so far?

My hope is that after this roundtable we have a better view on what we are doing right, and what could be improved (and how).

Akrasjel Lanate
Gallente
Naquatech Conglomerate
Yulai Federation
Posted - 2010.11.12 15:12:00 - [10]
 

Quote:
* Microtransactions


Shocked

Nareg Maxence
Gallente
Posted - 2010.11.12 16:14:00 - [11]
 

I want a the table to be shaped like a superellipsis!! Mad

TeaDaze
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
Posted - 2010.11.12 17:28:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Akrasjel Lanate
Quote:
* Microtransactions


Shocked

We need to get enough feedback from players (for and against, positive and negative) to add weight when we discuss this at the next Iceland summit.

Certain people within CCP are quick to class any negative comments as bitter vets so the more people who respond with reasonable concerns the better.

Celebris Nexterra
Gallente
Jupiter Force
Posted - 2010.11.12 18:58:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Dierdra Vaal

* Game Balance Requested by Players



YAY!! And I don't work on Sunday =) I'll be there!

Erik Finnegan
Gallente
Polytechnique Gallenteenne
Posted - 2010.11.13 17:31:00 - [14]
 

The CSM convinced CCP of the benefits of delaying the expansion for additional polishing and bug-fixing. And the mini-expansion which we get meantime is basically made up of CSM-relayed featured. Is this going to be a roundtable or a party ?! Cool

Lord Gragert
Minmatar
Mercury Metal Mining
Posted - 2010.11.13 20:59:00 - [15]
 

Whats meant by microtransactions? Pay a dollar and get your cargohold filled with ammo? Pay a dollar and get a bonus million skillpoints?

I certainly hope thats not the case.

Sigh, I blame the WoW sparklepony for this.

Chibisuke
Gallente
Children of Avalon
Posted - 2010.11.14 08:00:00 - [16]
 

Edited by: Chibisuke on 14/11/2010 08:03:01
Originally by: Lord Gragert
Whats meant by microtransactions? Pay a dollar and get your cargohold filled with ammo? Pay a dollar and get a bonus million skillpoints?

I certainly hope thats not the case.

Sigh, I blame the WoW sparklepony for this.


More like: Wasting a plex to do an additional stat remap.
At least thats what CCP was planing.


btw.: Regarding not able to tell stuff about the accepted proposals (by NDA)....
If I understand you correctly CCP censors the stuff the CSM can tell the players by gag-ordering them, when they dislike what it would be?
Which kind of embarassing stuff would come out if they wouldn't?

Arnold Predator
Special Situations
Posted - 2010.11.14 08:26:00 - [17]
 

Edited by: Arnold Predator on 14/11/2010 08:40:28
Hybrid guns balance
(CSM)

Fix blasters (CSM)

Hybrid guns balance CSM meeting

Blasters 2.0

Maybe take a look at blasters....just saying.Rolling Eyes I know its not what your looking for but I can't make it the roundtable meeting to bring this up. If you guys would come up with a solution for this BIG problem that KEEPS being brought up I would very happy. Saying us blaster boat pilots to learn another weapon type is not a solution like what the meeting minutes sugest. Sorry but we expect more then that.

The blaster 2.0 thread has 20 pages of ideas that would go along way to making blasters/hybrids weapons better. Is it right that pluse lasers get 85% the damage but with 300% more range. Yes they have worse tracking but they have longer ranges, thus not needing as much tracking. Just take a look. Most people arenít looking for more range... there asking for more tracking.

Here is a quote from Blasters 2.0 thread (page 20) that gives a good example of what people are saying in the thread and what there asking for.
Originally by: JitaPriceChecker2
Originally by: Doctor Aibolit
Some statistic facts from Top20 http://eve-kill.net/?a=top20 :
Top 20 killer ships: there are only 2 Gallente ships (Mega - 3rd place, Myrm - 20th place)
Top 20 weapons: there is no blaster Laughing and surprise - there is 425 Railgun :) ( fleet VS fleet Question )

P.S. You see - just learn something else. Something else is better than Hybrids Laughing


i think megathron is that high becuase of tracking bonus , which somehow fix blaters by its own.




Is it asking too much that this get brought up to ccp again? This effects many players of eve and needs to be looked at NOW. This needs to be kept in the spot light so that ccp knows that they need to look at this. THIS EFFECTS HALF of the races in eve! Its not a small problem, its effecting 1000ís of players in game. Please spend some time on this. I would really like to see CCP gets this fixed by the summer expansion. This should have been fixed a long time ago... Rolling Eyes


On a side note:

Thank you CSM for your hard work on getting micro-transactions either out of the game for good or for cosmetics only. Thatís some BS that needs to be primaryed and killed.

Mynxee
Veto.
Veto Corp
Posted - 2010.11.14 12:12:00 - [18]
 

Edited by: Mynxee on 14/11/2010 12:13:21
Originally by: Chibisuke
btw.: Regarding not able to tell stuff about the accepted proposals (by NDA)....
If I understand you correctly CCP censors the stuff the CSM can tell the players by gag-ordering them, when they dislike what it would be?
Which kind of embarassing stuff would come out if they wouldn't?


No, CCP generally only imposes NDA for features which haven't been announced, stuff that could be considered advantageous to competitors if it was public knowledge, proprietary corporate data (such as future plans or financial or legal data), and (most of the time) advance disclosure about which CSM backlogged items are being worked on for a given patch. The latter is typically due to wanting to avoid player disappointment if a particular item doesn't make it in, since many factors impact the ability to achieve development goals. I am not in favor of this approach regarding status of CSM backlogged items being worked; I think players should be told what's in the pipeline because I think they are smart enough to realize that saying that is not a promise, but a plan.

CCP does not otherwise attempt to "gag" us from telling players things which would make CCP uncomfortable. If that were true, the June Minutes or for that matter, the October Minutes, blog posts, tweets, and forum posts from myself, Teadaze, and a few others would not be nearly as critical or cuttingly analytical as some of them have been.

cerbus
Minor Annoyance...
Posted - 2010.11.14 12:26:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: TeaDaze
Originally by: Akrasjel Lanate
Quote:
* Microtransactions


Shocked

We need to get enough feedback from players (for and against, positive and negative) to add weight when we discuss this at the next Iceland summit.

Certain people within CCP are quick to class any negative comments as bitter vets so the more people who respond with reasonable concerns the better.


Maybe you can remind them of the multiple threads in the assembly hall on microtransactions and get everyone to place their votes during your round table. There are over 1000 replies with peoples views.

No Plex for Remap
Microtransactions - Yes, No, Cosmetic Only?

also

Guidelines for CCP to follow to not break the game even more after introducing MTs

cerbus

Ramman K'arojic
Posted - 2010.11.15 00:28:00 - [20]
 

Can you post a post summary of the questions and answers as discussed at the round table.

TeaDaze
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
Posted - 2010.11.15 01:41:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Ramman K'arojic
Can you post a post summary of the questions and answers as discussed at the round table.

We'll release the chat log from the moderated channel after the roundtable so those who are unable to attend can see the questions and responses.

Fon Revedhort
Monks of War
DarkSide.
Posted - 2010.11.15 07:08:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Dierdra Vaal

Note that this event is not intended to pitch your own CSM proposals or ask us "why the nighthawk doesn't get a bit more powergrid".


Damn, that's exactly what I was going to ask Laughing Is anyone at CCP really in doubt whether they should increase its powergrid? Neutral

Other than that, nice initiative. I wish it would be of any usefulness.

Dierdra Vaal
Caldari
Veto.
Veto Corp
Posted - 2010.11.15 11:11:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Chibisuke
btw.: Regarding not able to tell stuff about the accepted proposals (by NDA)....
If I understand you correctly CCP censors the stuff the CSM can tell the players by gag-ordering them, when they dislike what it would be?
Which kind of embarassing stuff would come out if they wouldn't?


No, we just cant tell you everything CCP tells us. For example, we've known for a long time which CSM features would (most likely) end up in Incursion. However, in order to correctly manage expectations (features may be dropped at the last minute) we can't tell you right away.

The NDA exists so CCP can tell us things they cannot tell the general playerbase yet, and is of great use to us. The June summit meeting minutes showed that they do not use the NDA to censor us when our opinion is not a positive one.

JIMM MAYFIELD
Posted - 2010.11.15 18:40:00 - [24]
 

jimm mayfield,125,171,203,79,161,163,48

Minigin
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
Posted - 2010.11.15 23:35:00 - [25]
 

i dont know if i will be on for this, but things i would hope are discussed:

1. is csm really having an impact on the shaping of this game?
2. if so, how? / if not, in what way can we achieve a better voice for the playerbase?
3. state of 0.0 (that is to say everything from stagnant sov / coalition systems / supercap production rates / instant travel etc.)
4. how we can get more people and more groups out into 0.0?


if i hear one more csm make an excuse about why nothing will change rather than how we can either convinse/force ccp to look at issues... just do the job you have been elected to do. if you cant please step aside for someone with a better idea of how to get things done.

Dierdra Vaal
Caldari
Veto.
Veto Corp
Posted - 2010.11.16 11:47:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: JIMM MAYFIELD
jimm mayfield,125,171,203,79,161,163,48


wrong thread :P

NAP Cancer
Gallente
Federal Navy Academy
Posted - 2010.11.17 00:56:00 - [27]
 

This should be fun ;)

Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2010.11.17 19:59:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: Akrasjel Lanate
Quote:
* Microtransactions


Shocked


please come, I intend to remodel my house and I'll need lots of bricks Laughing

Vuk Lau
4S Corporation
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2010.11.21 13:50:00 - [29]
 

Bumpy reminder for everyone.

Kalle Demos
Amarr
Helix Protocol
Posted - 2010.11.21 17:03:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Minigin
i dont know if i will be on for this, but things i would hope are discussed:

1. is csm really having an impact on the shaping of this game?
2. if so, how? / if not, in what way can we achieve a better voice for the playerbase?
3. state of 0.0 (that is to say everything from stagnant sov / coalition systems / supercap production rates / instant travel etc.)
4. how we can get more people and more groups out into 0.0?


if i hear one more csm make an excuse about why nothing will change rather than how we can either convinse/force ccp to look at issues... just do the job you have been elected to do. if you cant please step aside for someone with a better idea of how to get things done.



/signed


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