Posted - 2010.11.08 23:18:00 - [3]

 

I can be bothered to do the maths, but on some fits at least (my tengu for instance) the flux coil give a bit more cap pr sec than PDU II.

Flux coils are very situational though.

Posted - 2010.11.08 23:26:00 - [5]

 

Flux Coil are good on active shield tanks. You don't cripple your shield boosting amount (see Capacitor Power Relays). Reduced cap size isn't a problem if cap stability is your primary goal. And even if not completely cap stable - you get a very agile cap with Flux Coils. Helpful for burst tanks for instance.

Power Diagnostics are very nice for buffer tanks and other things. A very versatile module.

Posted - 2010.11.08 23:41:00 - [7]

 

Edited by: NoNah on 08/11/2010 23:48:09

Originally by: Sergeant Failfit

---

Originally by: Celeste Darklighter

---

Originally by: Alt Tabbed

---

[snip]
I have to agree with you on "Active Shield Tanked" ships.

---

If you use flux coils with anything else than active shield tank, you really need to have your head examined.

---

This is really really really true.

---

I've used them a couple of times when moving caps through stationless systems. Why is that bad?


Oh and as for the math in the op. You don't add time to recharge, you remove it. Hence:

.9 / (1-0.26) = +21.6%
1.05 / (1-0.085) = 14.8%

Posted - 2010.11.09 00:23:00 - [9]

 

It says capacitor recharge rate bonus. It's ambigious at best. But yes, infos tend to be misleading. Notice how harderners have -55% * damage resistance bonus?

There are even examples of modules affecting the same attribute having opposite infos. That said, most of them should be somewhat obvious in what they actually do.

Posted - 2010.11.09 00:33:00 - [11]

 

Edited by: Mavnas on 09/11/2010 00:36:41
Edited by: Mavnas on 09/11/2010 00:34:34
Hmmm... EFT suggests that indeed the Cap Flux Coil gives -26% recharge time rather than +26% recharge rate as it claims.

edit: Yeah, that means they're better than the PDU.
edit2: PDU also decreases recharge time rather than increasing recharge rate by that amount.

This raises the question, does anything actually add x% to the recharge rate or is there just inconsistency in the info screens? (CCC I for example says -15% recharge time.)

Posted - 2010.11.09 00:49:00 - [13]

 

Edited by: NoNah on 09/11/2010 00:55:17
Edited by: NoNah on 09/11/2010 00:51:48

Originally by: Mavnas

---

Edited by: Mavnas on 09/11/2010 00:36:41
Edited by: Mavnas on 09/11/2010 00:34:34
Hmmm... EFT suggests that indeed the Cap Flux Coil gives -26% recharge time rather than +26% recharge rate as it claims.

edit: Yeah, that means they're better than the PDU.
edit2: PDU also decreases recharge time rather than increasing recharge rate by that amount.

This raises the question, does anything actually add x% to the recharge rate or is there just inconsistency in the info screens? (CCC I for example says -15% recharge time.)

---

Recharge time and total cap are the only two factors determining the cap recharge. Then this is put into an algorithm causing the recharge we have today where it peaks just under 30% and is as low as it gets as it approaches 100%.

This means there's technically no attribute called cap recharge bar the function of those two values, if you changed the final product the cap recharge, one or both of the factors would have to come with it.

Look at it like a car traveling. On one hand you have the distance it needs to travel, on the other hand you have the time it takes to do so. This gives you the total speed. Now you can increase the speed of the car by either having the distance it can travel over said time be longer or shorten the time to go the same distance. But it's impossible to have a higher speed without altering either time nor distance.

Originally by: Aamrr

---

[Capacitor Recharge, by module]
Power Diagnostic System II
8.5% capacitor recharge rate bonus
5% capacitor bonus
1*(1+.05)/(1-.085) = 1.05/0.915 = +11.6% GJ/s

Capacitor Flux Coil II
26% capacitor recharge rate bonus
-10% capacitor bonus
1*(1-.1)/(1-.26) = .9/(.74) = +21.6% GJ/s

Cap Recharger II:
20% capacitor recharge rate bonus.
1/(1-0.2) = +25% GJ/s

Capacitor Power Relay II
24% capacitor recharge rate bonus.
1/(1-0.24) = +31.6% GJ/s
-11% shield boost bonus
1/(1-.11) = -11% active shield repair

---

That last value, the -11% active shield repair makes no actual sense. What you MIGHT be saying is that it'd take 11% longer time to boost the same amoung of shield as before, but the shield boost is still just 10% less, the repair amount is 10% less.

Oh and your power diagnostic math is off for some reason. Not entirely sure why, your last statement is right, the result is off.

Posted - 2010.11.09 01:24:00 - [15]

 

Originally by: NoNah

---

Edited by: NoNah on 09/11/2010 00:55:17

That last value, the -11% active shield repair makes no actual sense. What you MIGHT be saying is that it'd take 11% longer time to boost the same amoung of shield as before, but the shield boost is still just 10% less, the repair amount is 10% less.

---

I was pointing out that capacitor power relays penalize shield boost amount. That's all.

Originally by: NoNah

---

Edited by: NoNah on 09/11/2010 00:55:17
Oh and your power diagnostic math is off for some reason. Not entirely sure why, your last statement is right, the result is off.

---

1.05/(1-.085) = 14.8%. Excuse me.

Posted - 2010.11.09 01:50:00 - [17]

 

I've only ever used them once with a WH fit Tengu, and only one to be cap stable with a Pith A-Type Large Shield booster. They require a lot of cap tho.

Otherwise, they are fairly useless.

And you only need 1 cap mod in normal space anyway, thats a cap booster.

Posted - 2010.11.09 02:31:00 - [19]

 

Originally by: Aamrr

---

When you compare such setups, the power diagnostic may give you a longer amount of time before you run out of capacitor -- but the net recharge will ALWAYS be higher with the flux coil, even if the buffer amount is less.

---

Yeah, we kind of established that by now.

Quote:

---

No, nothing does that. And in fact, the bonus you are describing can be described in terms of reduced recharge time -- a 100% bonus to recharge amount per second is a 50% reduction in capacitor recharge time.

---

Right, which is why it's puzzling that a large number of mods have a positive recharge rate bonus listed even though they in fact reduce recharge time by that amount.

Quote:

---

Is the way they do math, is the % cumulative, or compounded? I think shield resists are compounded(with diminishing returns), and I don't assume that you can get recharge rate to 0.

---

Everything in game is compounded. Resists also have diminishing returns because of the module stacking penalty, but for example base resists, bonuses, damage control, and the first resist mod are a straight up multiplication.

Posted - 2010.11.09 17:19:00 - [21]

 

Originally by: Mavnas

---

Ok... seriously, why do I keep seeing these show up in fittings? I've seen at least two of these today.

It seems to me like power diagnostic units are superior. Consider:

Flux Coil II
1.26 * .90 = 1.134

---

You fell for the trap!

A recharge rate bonus isn't a bonus to recharge rate, it's a reduction to total recharge time. Therefore, you must not multiply by (1+bonus), but divide by (1-bonus), which gives the flux coil a recharge rate increase of:

0.90 / (1-0.26) = 1.216


However, the PDUII still beats it in many situations, since you need to factor in that it gives you more cap to start with.