Posted - 2010.10.24 00:08:00 - [121]

 

Edited by: Zions Child on 24/10/2010 00:11:50

Originally by: Sergeant Spot

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Originally by: So Sensational

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Stuff

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If I had to bet money, I'd bet than when I die, nothing is going to heppen, because there is nothing.

But I don't have FAITH in that. (Don't especially like it either. I don't like the idea of Jeffrey Dalmer's value system being as valid as anyone else's.....)

"IF".....

.....there is a spiritual. And when I say "spiritual", I mean "souls" "God(s)" and such.....

...."THEN".....

....there is no reason assume "time" in the world beyond. Nor space, nor cause and effect, nor a past, nor a future, nor any rule of any sort for how our universe works.

If those things exist, then we're dealing with NON-spiritual things, even if they are non-corpeal. (basicly God as a Space Alien.)

Where Atheist break down is their assumption that they can nail down "God" using science, logic, etc. If they succeed, it means they failed, and what they found would be better described as an Alien.

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First, to Zedic: Honey, I've spent two months without a real computer, give me a break. There's only so much trolling I can do in real life.

Anyways, Spot, I'd like to point out the fallacy involved in "But I don't have FAITH in that. (Don't especially like it either. I don't like the idea of Jeffrey Dalmer's value system being as valid as anyone else's.....)."


First of all, I believe you're taking about Dahmer, the serial killer, because a quick google search for Dalmer brings up nothing. Anyways, Atheists are just as capable as theists are in believing in Objective morality. As a full-blown, I refuse to acknowledge the existence of god/magic/miracles/souls/spirituality unless I can get empirical proof of it Atheist, I personally believe in an objective morality. I truly do subscribe to the thought that there is some inherent drive in moral agents towards things like not killing (with exceptions), not causing pain in general etc. That being said, I do not believe that there is some godly/spiritual force that is at the root of it. Its merely an objective fact of moral (i.e. creatures that can make choices and morally balance options) agents.

I also believe that the reasons why someone would follow morality even if there is nothing after this life, is simply the betterment of the Human race. If you don't think that's a good reason to be moral, well then, you're about as moral Mr. Dahmer.

EDIT: And just because I refuse the concept of spirituality doesn't mean I'm rude to religious people. Although I will gladly debate with them about the reasons why they believe, or are moral, I attempt to use logic and the Socratic method when doing so. You're perfectly allowed to have your beliefs, but your reasons behind it ought to be more than "because the bible tells me so."

Posted - 2010.10.24 03:08:00 - [123]

 

Originally by: Zions Child

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More Stuff

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I never suggested, never vaguely suggested, never implied, etc, that atheist can't have Objective morality.

I don't have Faith in God (any God) either (although I'll confess I have a sort of worship of "Free Will/Accepted Consequence"...).

My Dahmer comment was a rejection of Nietzsche. I respect Nietzsche, but I hope he was wrong.

I use Ghengis Khan as an example as often as I use Dahmer. According Ghengis, the best thing in life was **** and Pillage of enemies (he was specific) (in the Conan movie they water down his famous quote for Conan). Ghengis had a value system followed by millions, and it had a logic of sorts behind it. If there is no fundamental underlying morality, I don't have much ground to call his value system inferior, except that I say so, and that it does not agree with the logic of MY morality.

Nothing prevents me from picking a western style morality and sticking to it, lack of religious 'faith' or not. But at some level I dearly 'hope' that there IS an underlying morality. To that 'hope' I will confess.

Most Atheists I've spoken with also pick a western style morality and stick with it, although most don't bother with a hope for an underlying 'fabric of the universe' morality.

As per my early comment, I don't assume rudeness of all atheist, but the number that view "(word for human liquid waste) Christ" as something worthy of public funding as "art" is sickening. (I've also known atheists that are sickened by it).

Posted - 2010.10.24 06:32:00 - [125]

 

Originally by: Ray McCormack

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Originally by: Frank Horrigan

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South Africa sounds interesting, I've researched a little about them but not enough to say anything either way.

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Come visit, you can crash on my couch and get to know the place.

Cape Town is the most popular destination, a spectacularly beautiful city with outlying areas well worth visiting along the south and west coasts as well as inland amongst the winelands. You could describe it as the most westernised city in the country with the only drawbacks being the exceptionally stormy winters; however being a coastal, mediterranean climate it doesn't get that cold.

Durban has the best weather, a very humid climate with one season. The population is strongly multi-cultural (as in most South African cities), but it's the heartland of both Zulu and Indian culture, with a fair smattering of ex-pat Brits. Fantastic coastlines north and south of the city with a majestic mountain range inland.

Johannesburg is the financial and industrial capital of Africa, it doesn't get more intense than this place on the continent. It's far from a beautiful city, but the climate is predictable: hot summers with afternoon thunderstorms and cold, dry winters. It's also one of the most violent cities on earth, although being a resident I tend to feel this may well be another statistical untruth. A very vibrant and friendly community, lots of infrastructure development and several destinations worth visiting within a couple hours drive.

There are various other cities scattered across the map, most worth visiting. Job seekers tend to stick to the three main ones though, with Jozi being the largest employer.

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Joburg is also the carjacking capital of the world

I used to live in P.E.

Posted - 2010.10.24 08:38:00 - [127]

 

Very intelligent? Like having lots of complaints, not doing anything but drugs, computer games and thinking of leaving? And you want to make 100k?



You, son, can go everywhere. The world is an open place and people will welcome you all over the world. Just do not come to the UK.

Posted - 2010.10.25 00:41:00 - [129]

 

i been sitting here reading this thread, and i must say i've been laughing alot, funny stuff

Posted - 2010.10.25 01:23:00 - [131]

 

Originally by: Sob echo

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i been sitting here reading this thread, and i must say i've been laughing alot, funny stuff

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I agree, Been quite a hilarious thread.

Posted - 2010.10.26 02:20:00 - [133]

 

most arab countries speak english now.... go there and you might like it. just be careful not to lose da head with the locals though.

Posted - 2010.10.27 21:00:00 - [135]

 

Oki - i read the whole tread and the discussion about gay, jews and Netherlands vs USA.

I live in Germany and for me the discuss is totally absurd. Gay married is legal in Germany. Our foreign minister and vize-cancler (vice president) is Guido Westerwelle. He is gay, leader of the Liberal party and in a coalition with the conservative. We have also gay high rank politicans in the conversertive party. So my question. Is to be gay so something special outside Germany ?

Also the jewish communuty has grown in the last years here. Maybe their come all from the nederlands over the uncontrolled border.

Posted - 2010.11.01 04:01:00 - [137]

 

Have a look at Norway if you are serious about this.

Yes we pay alot of taxes.
Gays are allowed to get married.
Beer is expensive and so is tobacco.
And then theres the issue with insanely high rent.
Politicians are ******ed, but tell me 1 country on this planet which doesnt have that.
Winters long, but you will learn to enjoy the winter olympics. Not quite sure if thats positive.
But we got "free" health care(see the high taxes), oil, real blondes, very low unemployment(i even had a dude at work from australia who didnt speak any norwegian at all when he started)
You got 0 chance of getting work at restaurants cus all the swedes has taken them.
Our capital has around 500k people. We got more pubs, clubs and more concerts than any other city in northern europe.
Once you speak norwegian fluent you got no trouble understanding swedish or danish. They however will try their best not to understand you. Icelandic people will understand you somewhat but you wont understand a thing their saying.
We got fish in our oceans. We got polar bears, but not on the main land.
We got a king which does **** all except preventing our ******ed politicians of becoming president instead of prime minister.
Our tv shows are crap at best. Foreign stuff is mainly made in usa.
We pay license for owning a tv. Cars are god damned expensive.
We got this.
5 weeks of payed vacation each year(12.5% of what you earned last year is the norm). If you ever get a kid you as dad are allowed a minimum of 10 weeks to stay home with the kid and get payed. The total for both parents combined is at 80% pay 53 weeks or at 100% pay 43 weeks.
We got extra letters at the end of our alpabeth which is æ and ø and å.
Main religion is protestantic christianity. We got women and gay priests.
Our public schools are okish. Most of us speak english, and many speak german, french or spanish.
Since the population is low (around 5m) we dont have much celebrities. This means every **** whose been on a reality series is a huge star.
We suck at summer sports. We call soccer football. Most of us rather watch the english series rather than our own cus it sucks.
If we ever win anything we go nuts. Or just qualify for anything.
We dont have alot of guns, but if you absolutely have to shot guns you can get a hunting license or join a gun club.
Have to be 18 years old to get a driving license, buy beer/wine tobacco. 20 for spirits.

I know alot of this stuff looks bad, but in general we are quite happy.