| Author |
Topic |
LiquidatorBrunt
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
|
Posted - 2010.12.07 13:17:00 - [ 61]
Edited by: LiquidatorBrunt on 07/12/2010 13:17:05 Originally by: Kwisatz Hadereach
This guide is to help bears avoid unwanted pvp. Many of these tactics are "frowned on" by pvpers. Smack in local accordingly.
Basic PvP avoidance:
First, keep up basic scout....
I found your entire post and follow ups very helpful, thanks very much Kwisatz  |
Skex Relbore
Gallente
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation |
Posted - 2010.12.07 17:18:00 - [ 62]
Originally by: Kwisatz Hadereach
Many people enjoy the crafting/trading/econ side of eve. More than pvp, actually, because every pvper pves but not every pveer pvps. Many bears think pvp is dull and pvpers are simply sociopaths.
Hate to break it to you but every activity you named off is technically PVP. Sure it's not PVP spaceship combat but you aren't crafting things to sell to NPC's for the most part nor are you generally trading with NPC's so pretty much the entire econ part of eve is player v player interaction. People who think that PVPer are sociopaths are need of a reality check. It's a game. part of the game (and a very fun part for that matter) is blowing up peoples ships/pods/assets. Quote:
And honestly, I can't blame them -- pvp is rarely determined by combat skill. Compared to many other games, the game mechanics simply don't reward skill nor do they make combat interesting. Its simply a gankbear circle jerk gankfest. In two years and ~1500 kills I can count the number of 10+v10+ equal fights I've had on one hand. People go out of their way to avoid interesting, skill based combat and then chest thump about how hard core they are. This is a freaking game, not the great patriotic war -- at the end of the day farming killmails is equally as pointless as farming LP, and holding sov to give yourself more bear rights is about as meritorious as owning an office in jita.
And you pvpers are on the whole farked up. You're the people who make wow nerds look like well adjusted studs. You're the people who think /b is funny instead of depraved. You're the people who are 9 times in 10 nerds finally reveling in a change to bully someone else. And I say this as a pvper 
I think you misunderstand PVP in EVE. As well as definition of skill. In fact I don't believe your boast of 1500 kills (no record of Kwisatz hadereach on BC that I can find) Because I don't see someone managing to get that many kills with out learning a little bit about the skills involved in PVP in EVE. Well unless you were a grunt in massive blob warfare. There is more to skill than twich play. The skill in EVE comes from dreaming up effective fits, then selecting fights you can win while avoiding those you can't. It involves scouting and hunting. Understanding agro mechanics. Knowing how to bait a force into engaging on your terms, knowing how to avoid same bait from others, knowing how to split up a larger force into smaller manageable chunks. PVP skill in EVE is all about convincing someone else that they are engaging you in circumstances that are favorable to them while in reality crafting the battle to favor you. The good pilots do this the crappy ones just fire at the first thing they can shoot at. This is all skill and a damned sight more involved than knowing what key combination unlocks super combat move 999. You will seldom see anyone with a documented history of success in EVE PVP making such a silly claim as you've made. Generally it's done by blow hards who fail at grasping these skills and are using the claim to explain away their failings. "I don't suck at PVP, PVP in EVE just sucks" No you do suck at PVP and you will continue to suck at PVP in EVE until you accept that reality and learn how to not suck. All that said I don't blame bears for avoiding PVP combat in mission ships. I avoid PVP combat in mission ships. unless you have a point it is pointless to even shoot at another player ship because they're just going to run away (unless you can alpha them) |
Robert Caldera |
Posted - 2010.12.07 17:26:00 - [ 63]
this thread is full of win.
you cant avoid pvp, at some point, they get you and then you should be prepared. |
Kenn
Caldari
McKae Industries and Research
|
Posted - 2010.12.07 21:05:00 - [ 64]
LMAO The OP was simply advising how to avoid PvP when traveling or doing anything in Eve. They were not stating the merits of doing so or justifying it. It was simply sharing strategies. That people reacted to this negatively and in some cases flamed over it surprises me though it shouldn't I suppose. It is the forum after all. The initial post was good. PvP is a definite part of this game and avoiding it is just another form of PvP. While some search and destroy others evade. Nothing personal in that nor should it be taken personally. When Iam ganked I will remain silent in local. I do my best to either win or run but when my ship gets pooed on and becomes dust I (hopefully ) get my Pod out of there to some where safe. I don't whine and I don't talk smack in local to the foe as it only feeds them or helps them. I don't gank others and I avoid PvP (as in deliberately engaging others) like the plague. Been there tried it didn't really like it. PvE is what I like. I can respect your right to PvP I hope you can respect my right to avoid it or risk dying trying to make me  . Others have different ideas about what I am going to do with my day and that is part of the game. Dealing with them. So thanks for the ideas , tips, and strategies. It's much appreciated. Fly safe. (Muahahhahahaah) |
Larton Dretta |
Posted - 2010.12.07 21:51:00 - [ 65]
Edited by: Larton Dretta on 08/12/2010 06:07:57Things you should definetly add: Turn on the session change timer and use it. If you leave a station and you don't feel safe, don't have means to escape, always spam CTRL+Space, if there are hostiles around, just redock after the session timer runs out. They won't be able to bump you or target you, just make sure you don't touch anything, but CTRL+Space. If you jump into a system without a scout and find yourself surrounded by hostiles, you should hold cloak as long as you can, if you're lucky they won't uncloak you, wait for the session timer to run out and just burn back to the gate and jump. Also mention the idea of a travel fit, especially when discussing things like MWD+Cloak. Originally by: Andrea Griffin
Activating your MWD makes your signature radius larger, which causes any locks on you to complete much more quickly. Activating the MWD first may cause someone to complete a lock before your cloak activates.
The correct way to use this trick is to activate your cloak and THEN activate your MWD. There is a second or two window in which you can activate modules after your cloak has been turned on. It takes a bit of practice to get the timing down, but you can practice up in high sec until you feel confident in your execution.
This is true, you should hit your MWD after the Cloak to be safe. EDIT: Originally by: heheheh
I dont quite understand why people that want to avoid PVP play a game where it is impossible to avoid pvp.
Exept that PvP in this game is also about avoiding most PvP opportunities and choosing situations where you have an advantage or most of the time, a chance to do enough damage. If you don't know how to pick your fights when you can, then you don't know what you're doing. |
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company |
Posted - 2010.12.08 12:49:00 - [ 66]
Far be it from me to criticize other peoples' play styles. Personally, I doubt I have spent even 1% of my total play time performing true carebear activities, unless station-spinning is counted as such.
Still, I like to see where others' viewpoints come from. Sometimes I try to establish myself within a carebear frame, and engage in some faux, short-lived carebearing to see what kind of response I can get out of us confrontational types. Sometimes, I get a decent one. However, when this happens, I find that I am quickly able to predict my griefer's actions, and to act accordingly.
What do you know, I guess doing pvp-related things in time made me immune to pvp. It is almost as if I possess some kind of immune system that grows stronger and more resistant with increased exposure to malicious influences. If ever there was an argument that carebearing is the EVE equivalent to AIDS, I feel this is it.
Oh, and as far as the avoidance advice is concerned, it is fair and useful, but a little bit redundant. This stuff (with the exception of the more technical points like becoming unprobable) should be common sense to anyone who has played the game for a bit. It will not deter or prevent any competent pvpers from pursuing their prey. Those who do not know these points are not worth going after anyway; there is no joy in it. In fact, I would be willing to bet money that the majority of pvpers do not lust after griefing three-day-olds out of the game. |
Diesel47 |
Posted - 2010.12.08 13:06:00 - [ 67]
why would you want to avoid pvp? |
afkalt |
Posted - 2010.12.08 14:14:00 - [ 68]
Originally by: Diesel47
why would you want to avoid pvp?
Unwinnable fights, transporting goods, in a hurry, not fit for PvP...to name but a few. My question to you: If you could avoid certain death to a blob, why wouldn't you? |
Diesel47 |
Posted - 2010.12.08 14:21:00 - [ 69]
Edited by: Diesel47 on 08/12/2010 14:21:31 Originally by: afkalt
Originally by: Diesel47
why would you want to avoid pvp?
Unwinnable fights, transporting goods, in a hurry, not fit for PvP...to name but a few.
My question to you: If you could avoid certain death to a blob, why wouldn't you?
Thats not PvP. That is PvPPPPPP. |
Larton Dretta |
Posted - 2010.12.08 14:38:00 - [ 70]
Originally by: Diesel47
why would you want to avoid pvp?
To not lose your Rupture to a 20 man gang like a complete idiot? |
afkalt |
Posted - 2010.12.08 15:10:00 - [ 71]
|
Target Painter
Minmatar |
Posted - 2010.12.08 18:17:00 - [ 72]
Originally by: Diesel47
Thats not PvP. That is PvPPPPPP.
Anyone that thinks most combat in EVE is fair is mentally ill. It's a game of trap/counter-trap, where you might spend an hour getting the perfect setup for a fight that lasts under 2 minutes. If I wanted fair fights, I have Halo on my XBOX. |
Diesel47 |
Posted - 2010.12.09 13:20:00 - [ 73]
Originally by: Target Painter
Originally by: Diesel47
Thats not PvP. That is PvPPPPPP.
Anyone that thinks most combat in EVE is fair is mentally ill. It's a game of trap/counter-trap, where you might spend an hour getting the perfect setup for a fight that lasts under 2 minutes.
If I wanted fair fights, I have Halo on my XBOX.
I'm pretty sure you can get double teamed in Halo also. |
Target Painter
Minmatar |
Posted - 2010.12.10 08:30:00 - [ 74]
Edited by: Target Painter on 10/12/2010 08:30:56 Originally by: Diesel47
I'm pretty sure you can get double teamed in Halo also.
I'm pretty sure I can't suddenly switch from 2v2 to 8v2 in Halo. Might be wrong though, let me check... nope, won't let my friends in. EVE is gank or get ganked. Originally by: afkalt
Please direct me to this mythical honorable duelling area you speak of!
Amamake, top belt. :trollface: |
CCP Spitfire
C C P
C C P Alliance |
Posted - 2010.12.10 08:53:00 - [ 75]
Offtopic posts removed.
|
SunGod RA
Endless Destruction |
Posted - 2010.12.10 11:23:00 - [ 76]
Originally by: Kwisatz Hadereach
Basic PvP avoidance:
DON'T LOG IN.
my good sir or madam i have, if it is not to offensive to you, taken the liberty to fix your post! |
SunGod RA
Endless Destruction |
Posted - 2010.12.10 11:46:00 - [ 77]
too* (editing toasts is against my beliefs) |
Lost Greybeard
Gallente |
Posted - 2010.12.10 12:56:00 - [ 78]
Originally by: heheheh
I dont quite understand why people that want to avoid PVP play a game where it is impossible to avoid pvp.
Dodging/avoiding pvp isn't necessarily the same thing as not being involved in pvp at all. An escape can be a victory, too. Especially if you're running cargo past a contract scammer or something. |
Nicky's Tomb |
Posted - 2010.12.10 13:46:00 - [ 79]
Edited by: Nicky''s Tomb on 10/12/2010 13:52:38
As someone learning this. My tips (probably already discussed)
Local, local, local. Watch it. If you have reds, concern yourself with getting safe. If you have nuets, find out who they are, how old, security status, are they likely to be a threat? If they look low risk, convo them, see if they are friendly, but never assume nice in chat doesn't mean he is actually approaching you cloaked.
Learn the regulars in your area, learn which are pirates which are carebears, but never assume you are safe if a player with a better ship is on grid, leave.
Cloaks are useful but NOT infallible. Any smart camp will have a fast frigate orbiting the gate at 15km with a stack of drones round it. It may or may not bump your cloak, but there is a chance you'll suddenly find yourself with your pants down.
If you take up scanning as a hobby, be VERY careful when warping to ships. Never warp to 0. If that ship happens to be at a POS, it will not take kindly to your uninvited arrival. Warp to 100km to be safe(r).
Set up your overview right. You don't want to panic because a flashy red cruiser just warped in on your when in face it's your CEO! Put all that PVE status stuff at the bottom and move corp/alliance/standings to the top. Anything that makes a player safe, above what makes them a threat.
Set up a Combat or PvP tab on the overview. Remove everything bar stations, gates and ships. No NPCs, no nothing. If you warp into a belt covered in roids, cans and other flotsam/jetsam you'll maybe miss that command ship at 80km and it can be a hassle trying to find and target stuff. Sure keep other tabs for mining/missioning, but if you smell danger switch to Pvp tab.
Finally. Just because you just got the skill to fly a BS, does not mean it won't all but insta pop the first time you meet a 5yo in a T2 cruiser. Where as a small fast ship can run from nearly any fight and are cheap to replace, allowing your to roam around and experiment.
|
Isus Jarode
Gallente
Sons of Ivaldi
Zero Hour Alliance |
Posted - 2010.12.11 02:03:00 - [ 80]
Funny how "gankbears" get equated to nothing more than bullies or juveniles.
Yeah, it's a sandbox. Everybody has a right to play how they damn well please. This is a true statement. But that means that we need to respect the wishes of high sec "carebears" as much as low-sec "gankbears" in the sense that some prefer to stick with economics and PvE over PvP combat. That's just how things are. Security grants high sec players the chance to experience the more peaceful aspects of the game without much stress - that's why there's low sec and nullsec, allowing for the anarchy and chaos to reward those who enjoy conflict or opportunity. So naturally you're going to get people waiting for the naive or the green to venture into that venerable waste of riches - they're hoping for luck, and the gankers are looking for a hunt.
It's about realism. Accept that there will always be opportunists and that if you choose not to live that life, then you best be prepared to evade or avoid however you can. Or else be ready to fight back. There's no "that'll just excite them," there's no "That's what they want." It's about surviving or attaining what you want, and not satisfying the "juvenile wants of the gankers" isn't going to lead to a perfect world where they eventually get bored and leave. They're here for good. So just get ready to fight or die.
So far this has been a great learning experience. I think it's not only useful for high sec folks but those in null sec too; I remember in my brief experience as a null sec n00b in an alliance, pirates and opposing forces ganked our empire lanes constantly, so we had to learn these tactics just to survive every day. These are things every player should catch on to. Keeps the blood in your body and not sucking out into space.
So yeah, a great thread. I just wish people would stop talking about each other like they're not worthy of the game. |
Dinzaiku Nagare |
Posted - 2010.12.12 09:19:00 - [ 81]
Excluding some of the less intelligent posting, this thread has been a pretty interesting read.
I'll put in my two cents. I started out like most people in Eve, by running missions. I also tried out mining for a long while (mining drone arbitrator is pro) as well as some industry (built shuttles, lol). All of these things were fun and I was satisfied to keep doing them. That is, until I got my first taste of PvP (referring to player on player combat to avoid the semantics). I haven't had a mining laser cycle, Angel Extravaganza run, or successful 0.01 ISK war that gets my heart pumping like tangling with another pilot.
I won't be narrow minded. I know many legitimately enjoy the industrial side of Eve. My point is simply that every veteran carebear or new player out there should at least hop in a rifter and give PvP a try. You'd be surprised how much fun it can be. Many in this thread seem to have a very negative view of PvP. While it is true that there are many risk adverse "PvPers" out there who won't ever be seen outside of a station's docking range or won't engage unless they have a 5:1 advantage, this paints a very incomplete picture of PvP. Solo/small gang PvP is still alive, and good fights can be found if you are willing to look for them. Those in this thread who claim that PvPers are nothing but "sociopathic gankers" are just as wrong as the PvPers who claim that carebears are just "mindless noobs".
That being said, the OP has some good advice. Instawarps and other safes/BMs are like coupons; you can never have too many. Good bookmarks have saved my skin on multiple occasions.
A word on avoiding probes: Sometimes making an "unprobable" fit can be infeasible without gimping a setup. If this is the case, or in any case really, becoming good friends with your directional scanner is one of the best things a pilot in Eve can do. If someone unfriendly pops into local, keep refreshing your d-scan for probes (remember to have probes on overview, or at least uncheck the 'use active overview settings' tab) and try to stay aligned to something you can warp to. Most importantly, always stay aware of your surroundings. If a pirate warps into your mission/plex and you aren't paying attention, you deserve to get ganked.
Reiterating my original point: Even the most hardcore carebears should at least have a basic grasp on how to fit and fly a PvP ship. You never know when it could come in handy. Dieing in a fail fit will only get you ridicule, but hostiles will think twice about hunting a 'bear who has shown it has teeth. |
Annie Anomie
Shadows Of The Federation |
Posted - 2010.12.12 13:09:00 - [ 82]
Edited by: Annie Anomie on 12/12/2010 13:36:00About station undocks: When you undock you're booted out at OVER your maximum speed therefore aligning anywhere is extra slow. I don't know how this interacts with the cloak-align thing but I imagine you're generally better either warping to an insta or just waiting out your session timer and redocking if it's not clear. Quote:
I won't be narrow minded. I know many legitimately enjoy the industrial side of Eve. My point is simply that every veteran carebear or new player out there should at least hop in a rifter and give PvP a try. You'd be surprised how much fun it can be.
While WH PVE is a little bit more interesting just endlessly running missions is pretty dull. If I wanted to play a PVE only game EVE wouldn't be it. You're not getting your money's worth from your sub if this is all you do. EVE's big unique selling point compared to every other game is it's big single shard sand-box universe. You may as well make use of that. It's also a pretty great PVP game despite some flaws. I play a bunch of stuff and EVE is the one I keep coming back to because there's nothing else out there that gives me the same mix of stuff that EVE does. I honestly think you're missing out on the best side of a very good game if you never give PVP in EVE a go. I don't think it should be like compulsory but I do think you're potentially (there's no accounting for taste) depriving yourself of a great gaming experience. |
Giselle Garner |
Posted - 2010.12.12 23:23:00 - [ 83]
The problem of an un-scannable ship is the tank for that L5, so must take some type of risk. In this case there are proper probers that will scan down you in few time. It's matter of luck for this situation, if you have bad luck of have a good prober in low-sec or not, so no 100% safe way:
[Nighthawk, Neutralizer Destroyer]
Shield Power Relay II
Shield Power Relay II
Shield Power Relay II
Shield Power Relay II
Shield Power Relay II
Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II
Kinetic Deflection Amplifier II
Kinetic Deflection Amplifier II
Heat Dissipation Amplifier II
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Drone Link Augmentor I
Medium Core Defence Field Purger I
Medium Core Defence Field Purger I
Hobgoblin II x5
Belonging to EFT, this boat with Guristas tanks 1986DPS.
This time is the most dangerous part, as stated above. Have not checked if would be "unstable" but enough switching 1 SPR -> 1 Caldari Navy BCU, for destroy towers faster.
As have said others, of course spam the directional scanner button every time the rats leave you time. Maybe you have luck of having a "noob" prober :)
After the neutralizer towers have been destroyed.... bring the active Tengu:
[Tengu, One-dot-oh-eight]
Power Diagnostic System II
Power Diagnostic System II
Power Diagnostic System II
Power Diagnostic System II
Power Diagnostic System II
X-Large C5-L Emergency Shield Overload I
Kinetic Deflection Amplifier II
Heat Dissipation Amplifier II
ECCM - Gravimetric II
ECCM - Gravimetric II
ECCM - Gravimetric II
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I
Tengu Defensive - Amplification Node
Tengu Electronics - Dissolution Sequencer
Tengu Propulsion - Gravitational Capacitor
Tengu Offensive - Accelerated Ejection Bay
Tengu Engineering - Capacitor Regeneration Matrix
Signature radius: 150m
Gravimetric Strenght: 194.8
So has a ratio 1,29 > 1,08. However, follow spamming the Directional Scanner, as they can still probe you, but the knowledge and practise that requires that "epic situation" is only for a very small group of choosen people, and however requires time and a real dedication to it (without counting expensive implants)
Belonging to EFT, this boat with Guristas tanks 1188DPS. And testing from SiSi says me that is enough, even spamming the directional button to get in use when do it in TQ.
I hope always will have a little piece of time, not enough to do another mission, to handle the close-range BS and be the bad part of the equation :[ |
Birdman Ravo
Deep Core Mining Inc. |
Posted - 2010.12.13 03:08:00 - [ 84]
Edited by: Birdman Ravo on 13/12/2010 03:12:52 Originally by: Kwisatz Hadereach
How to avoid a wardec:
First, in a time of peace create an alt to serve as CEO. This alt can be a market alt or such, but someone who never leaves the station. Next, if/when you are wardecked, simply have everyone other than ceo leave the corp and rejoin a temp corp as needed. Although its against CCP rules to disband a corp to avoid a wardeck, any/all individual members may leave as they wish. Rinse and repeat each time they wardeck and avoid all confrontation. Once the dust settles, rejoin your original corp.
IMO There's a difference between avoiding PVP and being a coward. This crosses that line. |
afkalt |
Posted - 2010.12.13 16:14:00 - [ 85]
Originally by: Birdman Ravo
Edited by: Birdman Ravo on 13/12/2010 03:12:52
Originally by: Kwisatz Hadereach
How to avoid a wardec:
First, in a time of peace create an alt to serve as CEO. This alt can be a market alt or such, but someone who never leaves the station. Next, if/when you are wardecked, simply have everyone other than ceo leave the corp and rejoin a temp corp as needed. Although its against CCP rules to disband a corp to avoid a wardeck, any/all individual members may leave as they wish. Rinse and repeat each time they wardeck and avoid all confrontation. Once the dust settles, rejoin your original corp.
IMO There's a difference between avoiding PVP and being a coward. This crosses that line.
Just as there's a difference between a wardec for a legitimate reason vs a wardec to be an asshat. Yes, such terms are subjective and I make no attempt to draw any sort of lines, its a fact regardless. In terms of "honor" or "nobility" legit wardec == legit PvP avoidance asshat wardec == hiding in NPC corps. I leave it as an exercise to the reader to decide which wardec fits where. |
Birdman Ravo
Deep Core Mining Inc. |
Posted - 2010.12.14 01:02:00 - [ 86]
Originally by: afkalt
Just as there's a difference between a wardec for a legitimate reason vs a wardec to be an asshat.
Yes, such terms are subjective and I make no attempt to draw any sort of lines, its a fact regardless.
In terms of "honor" or "nobility"
legit wardec == legit PvP avoidance
asshat wardec == hiding in NPC corps.
I leave it as an exercise to the reader to decide which wardec fits where.
Something I think is important to say - this wardec strategy leaves a permanent mark in your corp history. The repeated act of leaving and joining a bear corp can be seen by others as a red flag saying "I jump ship when the going gets rough." Some corps won't take you in because of it. A corp could wardec you on interval just for the tears. It's been done before. IMO Leaving a corp should be less of a routine and more of a last resort. |
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