| Author |
Topic |
EdTeach |
Posted - 2010.10.06 17:24:00 - [ 1]
Edited by: EdTeach on 06/10/2010 19:02:50
Let me begin by apologising for the wall of text, and to get a few disclaimers out to try and head off the worst of the flames.
I understand that for the most part...
Turrets>Missiles
Short range>Long range
RR Armor>Shield tanks(it's just the way it is out there)
Missile boats do not mix well with turret boats
Tacklers have short shelf lives and cannot just hang around
I'm not trying to convert a single turret-skilled pilot, or take anyone out of the furball that can survive and thrive there. This is an attempt to give mission runners and ratters a new way to contribute in large-scale warfare, as well as help the easily-flustered to survive. Why send pilots into short-range combat if they are not comfortable with it, and usually die quickly to little effect?
Let's say a corp/alliance gets attacked by superior forces. Large gate and station camps ensue. The mission is to get pilots in space that do not die like flies and can at least stir things up.
Grab 6-10 shield-tanking missile monkey Caldari pilots and put them in these, with a bubble or two and maybe tacklers that have GREAT timing. These snipers obviously have to work in same-type groups and have a target group that others are not shooting at. Like a station or gate camp.
relevant stats for both...
221km target range
253km weapon range
232mm scan rez (3.8 seconds BS, 9 seconds Frig{most important})
460m sig radius(average Drake is over 3100m w/mwd on 533 off)
-
Raven Longbow
Damage Control II
Signal Amplifier II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Invulnerability Field II
Invulnerability Field II
Sensor Booster II
Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range
Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution
100MN Afterburner II
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Caldari Navy Cataclysm Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Caldari Navy Cataclysm Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Caldari Navy Cataclysm Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Caldari Navy Cataclysm Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Caldari Navy Cataclysm Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Caldari Navy Cataclysm Cruise Missile
500W Infectious Power System Malfunction
Large 'Notos' Explosive Charge I
Large Bay Loading Accelerator I
Large Warhead Flare Catalyst I
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I
Vespa EC-600 x5
Hornet II x5
My skills - 422 DPS 3390 Volley (missiles only ofc)
--
The T2 version...
Raven Long Lance
Damage Control II
Signal Amplifier II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Invulnerability Field II
Invulnerability Field II
Sensor Booster II
Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range
Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution
100MN Afterburner II
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Cataclysm Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Cataclysm Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Cataclysm Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Cataclysm Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Cataclysm Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Cataclysm Cruise Missile
500W Infectious Power System Malfunction
Large 'Notos' Explosive Charge I
Large Bay Loading Accelerator I
Large Warhead Flare Catalyst I
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I
Vespa EC-600 x5
Hornet II x5
All 5s - 533 DPS 3597 Volley - Edit - smarty was in there had to turn it off.
--
I know, I know... 30 SECONDS FLIGHT TIME!?!?! Are you ****in' crazy?!?!??
It's about range, aplha, getting the damage to 'stick', and Rate of Fire. Once the eternal wait is over, the rain falls.
The range keeps anything from climbing out of the well to hurt these ships. They can warp before anything gets close. In limited testing solo it has run off a Rifter and jam/neuted a Myrm that landed on it, and jam/neuted a Proteus that I allowed to close, for a getaway. |
Footoo Rama
Gallente
Beyond Control. |
Posted - 2010.10.06 17:39:00 - [ 2]
[Megathron, LR RR BS]
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Adaptive Nano Plating II
Tracking Enhancer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Damage Control II
Sensor Booster II
Sensor Booster II
Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range
Quad LiF Fueled I Booster Rockets
[empty high slot]
425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Spike L
Large Trimark Armor Pump I
Large Trimark Armor Pump I
Large Trimark Armor Pump I
Warrior II x5
Hammerhead II x5
something like this... thsi is not optimized, but a base |
Enduros
Desard's Nation
Cha0s Theory |
Posted - 2010.10.06 17:51:00 - [ 3]
What will stop you getting probed and having blob or at least some of the blob warp on top of you? I guess if you shoot something that's not gonna leave like a dread or a tower then this is pretty good. |
EdTeach |
Posted - 2010.10.06 18:33:00 - [ 4]
Edited by: EdTeach on 06/10/2010 18:36:42Footoo... Very nice fit. I agree that turrets are better. However, I and (quite a few) other pilots may have no gunnery skills as yet, but have good missile skills. Every turret sniper is better than Raven, but this is a "if life gives you lemons" kind of thing. Ravens are all over the place and the lazy ratters should get in on the action. I also agree that these are very vulnerable due to their 'range tanking'. If they get caught by numbers, it's over. It's comes down to the squadron leader being on the ball and warping everyone to the aligned celestial at the first sign of real trouble landing in range. The gang loses 30 seconds worth of missiles on warp, but better than losing a raft of ravens. It's possible that a Hictor or Dictor warping in is time for the GTFO button with these. They are stand off and deliver, not stand and deliver. I have no clue how well a gang of these would fair in killing a Dictor or Hictor quickly. Input appreciated. I would think that any response of the magnitude required to threaten them would be a win since it is a defensive ship in nature. They are drawing off resources that may be attacking POSs etc. Plus, if they warp away and right back to a different 220km warp-in on other side of gate/station/POS, they don't lose that much time and annoy the enemy more. The probing issue is another area I would appreciate some input. scan rez 232mm, grav strength 19, sig radius 460m. Do those numbers help at all with making these harder to probe down than the average BS? I keep forgetting how that works. Again ... turret>missiles. I get it.  I will be training projectiles myself in a few months, and then take months to get decent at them. But if this can put a dozen pilots in space that would otherwise either not be in the fight or be dying quickly, it helps. Keep the input coming. The turret fits will be saved for later use by me if applicable. |
Seriously Bored
Minmatar |
Posted - 2010.10.06 18:59:00 - [ 5]
 Originally by: EdTeach
The probing issue is another area I would appreciate some input.
scan rez 232mm, grav strength 19, sig radius 460m.
Do those numbers help at all with making these harder to probe down than the average BS? I keep forgetting how that works.
I'm not a scanning expert, but I've done my fair share, and if you have eyes on any sort of sniper gang sitting 200KM off a celestial object for too long, it's not too hard to provide a warp in point relatively quickly. But the fact that your fits don't have extenders or shield rigs means they're no easier to scan down than your average battleship, and Caldari have the highest natural sensor strength. If you have a good FC that keeps your group moving whenever you aren't fighting, I don't think you would get dropped on totally out of the blue. Quote:
Again ... turret>missiles. I get it. I will be training projectiles myself in a few months, and then take months to get decent at them. But if this can put a dozen pilots in space that would otherwise either not be in the fight or be dying quickly, it helps.
It seems you know the limitations of what you're trying to do (whipping carebears into a respectable support militia), and if it weren't for the missile flight time, I'd say your fits put up some very respectable numbers. It's probably up to you to get your fleet going in game now, and to develop the techniques to make it work. For what it's worth, and whether you succeed or not, I salute novel stuff like this when it's done intelligently. o7 |
Mavnas |
Posted - 2010.10.06 20:52:00 - [ 6]
A few thoughts:
I imagine you could do better with a Tengu. Not necessarily in range or DPS, but you could make it a lot harder to probe down and a lot faster at leaving at the first sign of trouble. I don't have EFT on this computer, but it almost makes me wonder if you couldn't make some sort of unprobable sniper type whose job would be to warp in en-masse and break up a gate camp from behind. You wouldn't even really need to kill anything, just convince them to warp out.
Other thought: it doesn't really take that long to get turret skills. I wonder how well you could do with a Rokh sniper. |
Mavnas |
Posted - 2010.10.06 22:04:00 - [ 7]
Edited by: Mavnas on 06/10/2010 22:07:52
It occurred to me that I was approaching this all wrong.
[Cerberus, Sniper]
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Signal Amplifier II
Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range
Photon Scattering Field II
Invulnerability Field II
Medium Shield Booster II
ECCM - Gravimetric II
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Heavy Missile
[empty high slot]
Medium Hydraulic Bay Thrusters I
Medium Rocket Fuel Cache Partition I
Now this gets only 344 DPS with a max targeting range of 201.72km. Max missile range is over 250 so if you swap out the grav ECCM module on there you can bump targeting range up too.
The upsides though:
-5.8s align time (when the AB is off)
-405mm scan res (and that's with only one mod boosting this)
-heavy missiles are better against smaller targets than cruise missiles
-135m sig radius, 31.4 sensor strength (much harder to probe than the BS; I really tried to make this unprobable, but I just don't think the ship can do it without implants, maybe it's still worth putting a second ECCM module on and making it even harder to probe)
edit: On second look, it looks like an information warfare - sensor integrity link might help further with making probing harder. Does that suffer from a stacking penalty with with the ECCM mods?
second edit: skirmish warfare - evasive maneuvers link will almost certainly reduce your sig enough that you could trade in the tank on the above ship for unprobeability.
If you have a big enough group one BC/command ship + a bunch of those fitted to be unprobable could be very interesting to play with. Just be careful not to be too close to any wrecks or other objects that can be warped to. |
Footoo Rama
Gallente
Beyond Control. |
Posted - 2010.10.06 23:29:00 - [ 8]
tbh
Sniper BS gangs are kinda going way, small gangs tend to be HAC or BC gangs now. What BS are used for is more medium range with RR. 60-120km (sometimes closer) and using remote reps in the highs to provide tanking. My build is a weird hybrid based off an rr sniper build we used to use. Generally lock time is not a huge issue and SEBO II are used in lower numbers for range extension only via script and more tracking/optimal range mods are used.
TBH worrying about lock time when you have 30 second flight times, is kinda missing the bigger picture. |
EdTeach |
Posted - 2010.10.07 02:33:00 - [ 9]
Thanks for the input folks.
I like the Cerb fit a lot. It's refreshing to see folks help with the concept even if it is not for everyone.
The lock time is important for frigates that land nearby. I made that Rifter run squealing very quickly. The neut reached as far as his point, and then the light drones and missiles started to take effect. Larger ships start getting neut love even faster, and get a face full of ECM drones. Since it has zero tank to speak of, it either has to leave or fight very quickly.
I have been toying with switching out the smartbomb for a shield repper as well as switching out the AB with a shield booster. It is still a work in progress and requires more Sisi time to tweak down. I was trying for max defenses if it gets caught by tacklers/drones, and the smarty was my first thought. We get more into tactics than fittings here. I envisioned a squadron runing at 250 m/sec(50 m/sec in the pocket for adjusting formation) flying in a "combat box" with 5500 meter seperation. This is a WWII bomber formation that allows for mutual support, and it seems to transfer to EVE BSs rather well. Any drone or frigate that gets within 5km or inside the formation gets smarties up the arse. May not pan out but I am going to test it once I get enough carebears. :)
I agree that HACs and medium range ships are better for roams and such. This is a much more limited-use design for defending a single system against large camps, or providing fire support against a bubbled fleet. It is not supposed to replace any existing design but rather add options and pilots.
Keep it coming. I am learning and that's what this exercise is about. |
Mavnas |
Posted - 2010.10.07 02:50:00 - [ 10]
Edited by: Mavnas on 07/10/2010 02:52:14
I'm still too new to this to know exactly how everything works, but in theory, I'm thinking what you could do is get a small gang of Cerbs supported by a Loki configured as a command ship with that link that shrinks the sig radius. Then you can fit some ECCM mods to make the Cerbs unprobable. As long as there's nothing for them to warp to next to you (wreck/object) you should be safe. The Loki can be set up to web at fairly long range too and gets a bonus to the sig radius shrinking link. Alternatively you make the Loki unprobable and leave it at a safe spot in system.
Actually, if you're just trying to defend one system you should definitely get some sort of unprobable T3 set up as a command ship to help you guys out with some sort of bonuses.
edit: I also realized I short-changed the HAC in damage calculations by not using the damage T2 missile. |
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