| Author |
Topic |
fkingfurious |
Posted - 2010.09.03 17:18:00 - [ 1]
Edited by: fkingfurious on 03/09/2010 17:19:05
Edited by: fkingfurious on 03/09/2010 17:18:37
Right.
I'm buying me a Golem. I have a limited budget, about 1.4bn in fact and have come up with the following fit that, conveniently, costs about 1.4bn, give or take. I am fully aware that this is not a conventional Golem setup, but the "Recommended" fit (pithum a or c medium, 2x cn invuln, cn amp) is well out of my budget.
Heres the fit:
[Golem, torps]
Reactor Control Unit II
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
2x RF Painter
Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
2x Invuln II
Shield Boost Amplifier II
Pith A-Type X-Large Shield Booster (300mill, madness)
Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Javelin Torpedo
Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Javelin Torpedo
Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Javelin Torpedo
Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Javelin Torpedo
Small Tractor Beam I
Small Tractor Beam I
Salvager II
Large Hydraulic Bay Thrusters II
Large Rocket Fuel Cache Partition II
Hammerhead II x5
870 sustained (uniform) tank and 1060 reinforced. Cap lasts 5 minutes at max burn, which is never going to be necessary.
Now I am aware that cap booster fitting a mission boat isn't ideal (even less so when you need an RCU to do it) HOWEVER with the budget I have a cap stable setup requires some massive compromises. Obviously the Pithum A-type is well out of budget but the C-type isn't. Its about 350 mill. The problem comes when you fit that with vanilla hardeners because 2 CN Invulns at 800 mill totally blows the budget. Without them the C-Type tank is ****. A Gist large booster suffers the same problems, without CN invulns its really not up to scratch and isn't cap stable out of the box eiter requiring me to lose damage to bolster the cap.
Assuming that losing damage mods or painters really isnt an option can anyone see a way of getting a better setup within the constraints of the budget?
Ta |
Maihes Jita |
Posted - 2010.09.03 17:30:00 - [ 2]
I do not fly Caldari nor have I ever, but if your dps tank is that high, I don't see any issues if it is for missioning.
I tend to have a lower dps tank to increase my dps anyways when ever I do missions to speed it up, not to the point of a Nightmare where gank is tank. But that is my two cents.
Sorry if this post was not actually useful at all. |
Taedrin
Gallente
Kushan Industrial
|
Posted - 2010.09.03 17:42:00 - [ 3]
Edited by: Taedrin on 03/09/2010 17:43:15
What is your tank without the cap booster active, and with it active?
Cap boosters are perfectly OK for missions, however there is a problem with using them on a marauder. Marauders are generally used because they can salvage and loot on the go - cap boosters in your cargo hold will mean that you won't be able to loot as much, so you will essentially only be doing salvage.
Your strategy with cap boosters should be to only turn on your tank when you need it, and only turn on your cap booster when you need it. |
fkingfurious |
Posted - 2010.09.03 17:50:00 - [ 4]
It's untested atm but I'm hoping that the 5 charges that fit in the Booster will be enough to clear most missions. I have no idea of that will be the case tho. |
stoicfaux
Gallente |
Posted - 2010.09.03 18:10:00 - [ 5]
Edited by: stoicfaux on 03/09/2010 18:49:57
Edited by: stoicfaux on 03/09/2010 18:28:02
You're over-tanked. This won't do the AE bonus room, but it'll do everything else so long as you pay a modicum of attention to triggers and swap hardeners as needed.
Updated to meet 1.4B budget.
A Pith C-Type Large (150M isk) and a Medium Capacitor Booster II with 800s should work also.
[Golem, siege t2 copy 5]
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Pithi B-Type Small Shield Booster
Pithi B-Type Small Shield Booster
Heat Dissipation Field II
Photon Scattering Field II
Photon Scattering Field II
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Torpedo
Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Torpedo
Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Torpedo
Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Torpedo
Small Tractor Beam I
Small Tractor Beam I
Salvager II
Large Hydraulic Bay Thrusters II
Large Hydraulic Bay Thrusters II
Hobgoblin II x5
Hobgoblin II x3
Warrior II x7
|
King Rothgar
Autocannons Anonymous
|
Posted - 2010.09.03 20:37:00 - [ 6]
What exactly were you planning on doing with it? I ask because a t2 large shield booster should give you more than enough tank for any lvl4 mission. A t2 XL booster is over the top, nevermind the pith stuff. Assuming you're trying to do sleeper sites, null sec anomalies or lvl5 missions solo, I would advise adding a DCII. It adds some resistance and gives you a little bit of buffer when you **** your cap and your tank turns off. It's saved my sorry ass on more than one occasion  . In regards to active cap injecting in missions, it's really not a problem if you're massively over-tanked. I haven't done it much but when bored I've hurled a pvp maelstrom into a lvl4 (same tanking bonus as golem). It has a 1500 dps tank as a base (with implants), so the pathetic 200-300 dps lvl4's throw at it just don't phase it. Haven't popped a cap booster 800 in one yet. |
fkingfurious |
Posted - 2010.09.03 20:57:00 - [ 7]
Well tbh thats sort of my thinking. Yes the maximum tank generated by the Pith XL may be completely over the top, but its worth remebering that its activation cost is identical to a Tech 2.
This means it's more efficient (quite a lot more actually) and gives me more shield per unit of cap, thus reducing the requirement for injecting and hopefully means i can clear a mission on a single load of the booster, meaning I dont need to waste cargo space on more charges.. Its also bloody cheap. It costs less than a pair of Pith B smalls and generates a massive tank. Yes it is over tanked but not at the cost of anything very much. Ive still got 3 damage mods, 2 painters and the requisite range rigs. Alright so 4 damage mods would be ideal but that does leave you with a flimsy ass tank no matter what route you go (sticking to the budget).
I will have a closer look at the dual pith b setup tho. I would prefer not to have to rely on an injector.
|
RentableMuffin |
Posted - 2010.09.03 21:49:00 - [ 8]
 Originally by: fkingfurious
I'm buying me a Golem. I have a limited budget, about 1.4bn in fact and have come up with the following fit that, conveniently, costs about 1.4bn, give or take. I am fully aware that this is not a conventional Golem setup, but the "Recommended" fit (pithum a or c medium, 2x cn invuln, cn amp) is well out of my budget.
Pith A-Type X-Large Shield Booster (300mill, madness)
not like the pitum c-type is that much more than that pith a-type, was 375 when I looked lastnight, and it works fine with 2x t2 invluns + t2 boost amp (a big 1.5% difference from cn) plus it frees up another slot for a painter/ab |
fkingfurious |
Posted - 2010.09.03 21:53:00 - [ 9]
Pithum C-type Medium, 2x Invuln II and SBA II gives you a 320 dps tank which is, frankly, **** poor. While it would prbably manage some o the eaiser lvl4's, AE room 6, smash the supply line and a good number of others would bust that up in no short order. |
Moose Burger |
Posted - 2010.09.03 22:00:00 - [ 10]
Edited by: Moose Burger on 03/09/2010 22:02:58
This is what i suggest. cheap 4 slot tank for marauder
Domination XL booster/T2 XL booster = 60-2m
Medium cap booster = 2m
two specific hardeners = 2m
Remember, 5-slot tank is minimum for cnr, but golems shield boost bonus is one-and-a-half of an invul T2. So you can get away with 3/4 slot tank, but make bloody sure you know how to use the 5-slot-tank first.
Always put a large container inside your golem for all ammo and some cap boosters, and switch as necessary, 500-600m3 is plenty to loot stuffs.
4 CN BCU 4 SML2 2 tractor 2 salvager never ever ever change this
[Minimum Golem]
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
X-Large Shield Booster II
Medium Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Cap Booster 800
Heat Dissipation Field II
Photon Scattering Field II
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Torpedo
Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Torpedo
Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Torpedo
Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Torpedo
Small Tractor Beam I
Small Tractor Beam I
Salvager II
Large Hydraulic Bay Thrusters II
Large Rocket Fuel Cache Partition II
|
fkingfurious |
Posted - 2010.09.03 22:10:00 - [ 11]
If a Medium Injector is sufficient to get through missions i would be inclined to fit one instead of the heavy on posted and fit whilst still keeping the A-Type XL.
Would get rid of the need for the RCU and if 4 slots (Booster, 2x invuln, amp) will manage than 3 painters ftw. |
Moose Burger |
Posted - 2010.09.03 22:57:00 - [ 12]
Edited by: Moose Burger on 03/09/2010 23:00:26
Domi+heavy cap booster combination is very convenient because, while giving T2 level of tank, it has a cheaper requirement, and you can "permarun" XL+heavy cap booster and you wont run out of cap.
With a medium+XL however, you really need to pay attention at your cap,although even if it goes empty, you got the medium cap to inject 800's, its just not as convenient.
I really suggest getting a pithum C. Life gets very with one, and you can switch to 4-slot-tank which is
Pithum C + SBA t2 + double hardeners which also gives decent ammounts of tank.
You get cap stable on dc, (like 10-15 minutes otherwise), and also enough tank to tank everything. You arent immune to neuts anymore, however. |
RentableMuffin |
Posted - 2010.09.04 00:02:00 - [ 13]
Originally by: fkingfurious
Pithum C-type Medium, 2x Invuln II and SBA II gives you a 320 dps tank which is, frankly, **** poor. While it would prbably manage some o the eaiser lvl4's, AE room 6, smash the supply line and a good number of others would bust that up in no short order.
does a fine job at everything I've thrown it at, skip the AE bonus room no big loss, and never seen a smash the supplier but it looks like timed respawns, may or may not work |
Jerreie |
Posted - 2010.09.04 00:57:00 - [ 14]
Originally by: Moose Burger
[Minimum Golem]
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
X-Large Shield Booster II
Medium Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Cap Booster 800
Heat Dissipation Field II
Photon Scattering Field II
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Torpedo
Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Torpedo
Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Torpedo
Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Torpedo
Small Tractor Beam I
Small Tractor Beam I
Salvager II
Large Hydraulic Bay Thrusters II
Large Rocket Fuel Cache Partition II
I run this with 3 CN hardeners (no invulns) and no cap booster which is unnecessary. Breeze through every mission, just can't afk through some. |
SFX Bladerunner
Minmatar
Aperture Science inc.
|
Posted - 2010.09.04 00:58:00 - [ 15]
Originally by: RentableMuffin
Originally by: fkingfurious
Pithum C-type Medium, 2x Invuln II and SBA II gives you a 320 dps tank which is, frankly, **** poor. While it would prbably manage some o the eaiser lvl4's, AE room 6, smash the supply line and a good number of others would bust that up in no short order.
does a fine job at everything I've thrown it at, skip the AE bonus room no big loss, and never seen a smash the supplier but it looks like timed respawns, may or may not work
I run AE bonus in a Vargur with 650-ish SDE and 950-ish burst tank, doing 950-ish paper dps on 800mm ACs. perma-running AB, cap lasts 5m20s (burst tank). Golem should do AE bonus just fine, even in a +-1bil setup. |
Moose Burger |
Posted - 2010.09.04 01:36:00 - [ 16]
Smash the supply = cruise golem/CNR, burn AB away, and snipe the building. No problem
AE room 6 = remember. Killing non-mission-completion ships, is ALWAYS ALWAYS not worth it. In this case. it is even more not worth it, because you have to waste 10-30 seconds activating a gate. killing 2 spider drones. and being forced to kill even more frigates, for some puny ammounts of bounty.
400 dps tank is enough to tank all missions, except if you screw up Make sure you use correct hardeners. |
Cipher Jones
Minmatar |
Posted - 2010.09.04 02:20:00 - [ 17]
Originally by: Moose Burger
Smash the supply = cruise golem/CNR, burn AB away, and snipe the building. No problem
AE room 6 = remember. Killing non-mission-completion ships, is ALWAYS ALWAYS not worth it. In this case. it is even more not worth it, because you have to waste 10-30 seconds activating a gate. killing 2 spider drones. and being forced to kill even more frigates, for some puny ammounts of bounty.
400 dps tank is enough to tank all missions, except if you screw up Make sure you use correct hardeners.
Its rather Ironic because when I look at the numbers you claim in your thread it certainly would not be worth it but when I look at the numbers you actually post it would be worth it and then some. |
Moose Burger |
Posted - 2010.09.04 02:44:00 - [ 18]
Edited by: Moose Burger on 04/09/2010 02:44:52
the break-off point for "killing-non-completion-npc-generic-battleship-is-worth-it" for golems is approximately 744 isk/LP.
That means, for most people, killing npc battleships is not worth it. This is assuming killing NPC battleships with a golem follows the approximation (NPC bounty/200000) rounded-up-hits-to kill said battleship, with perfect ROF skills.
by nb/200k ruh2 kill, i mean
375k-415 = 2 hits
450-575 = 3 hits
When i add the factor of reloading and having to jump gates, and worst of all, shooting spider drones, it becomes 100% not worth it. Even if LP worth was 400-600 isk/LP |
Cipher Jones
Minmatar |
Posted - 2010.09.04 03:50:00 - [ 19]
Originally by: Moose Burger
Edited by: Moose Burger on 04/09/2010 02:44:52
the break-off point for "killing-non-completion-npc-generic-battleship-is-worth-it" for golems is approximately 744 isk/LP.
That means, for most people, killing npc battleships is not worth it. This is assuming killing NPC battleships with a golem follows the approximation (NPC bounty/200000) rounded-up-hits-to kill said battleship, with perfect ROF skills.
by nb/200k ruh2 kill, i mean
375k-415 = 2 hits
450-575 = 3 hits
When i add the factor of reloading and having to jump gates, and worst of all, shooting spider drones, it becomes 100% not worth it. Even if LP worth was 400-600 isk/LP
You said always always not worth it, you even capitalized it. Then you said with perfect rof skills. + perfect agent skills. Yeah, ALWAYS. |
Moose Burger |
Posted - 2010.09.04 08:43:00 - [ 20]
Jones. think. brains. use.
With perfect skills and ROF, and the tradeoff point is at 744 isk/LP
that means 14 seconds to kill a < 400K battleship
And 21 seconds to kill every other battleship.
So if your skills arent perfect, Then the tradeoff point will scale with how bad you are at killing stuff, making ther tradeoff point lower.
So in short, the weaker you are, you would expect even if the guy is dumb enough to change his LP with CNR's and apo navy issue's, he will still lose by killing non-completion-triggers
Think why a low-dps CNR can change into a 70-100m isk/hour earning machine even at low LP tradeoff's. Its because their ability to ignore ships they dont want to kill.(although a combination of other factors of effective dps, projection, and constant h2k. |
fkingfurious |
Posted - 2010.09.04 11:48:00 - [ 21]
Holy ****.
And here was me thinking that all was i going to do was roll up into a mission, blow stuff, loot a few wrecks and go home.
How wrong I was. |
Cipher Jones
Minmatar |
Posted - 2010.09.04 14:16:00 - [ 22]
Originally by: Moose Burger
Jones. think. brains. use.
With perfect skills and ROF, and the tradeoff point is at 744 isk/LP
that means 14 seconds to kill a < 400K battleship
And 21 seconds to kill every other battleship.
So if your skills arent perfect, Then the tradeoff point will scale with how bad you are at killing stuff, making ther tradeoff point lower.
So in short, the weaker you are, you would expect even if the guy is dumb enough to change his LP with CNR's and apo navy issue's, he will still lose by killing non-completion-triggers
Think why a low-dps CNR can change into a 70-100m isk/hour earning machine even at low LP tradeoff's. Its because their ability to ignore ships they dont want to kill.(although a combination of other factors of effective dps, projection, and constant h2k.
I do have brains I use em and I think. you have more than 400% the SP that I have and your bounties are slightly higher than mine. Yet you make all your money (well over half) from LP. For your Low dps machine to make that much money you have to have perfect agent skills. Anyone with perfect agent skills and 3mil sp in their ship is a ****ing idiot. I did not regard OP as such, he seemed to have it together. |
Dusica
Amarr |
Posted - 2010.09.04 15:31:00 - [ 23]
Originally by: fkingfurious
Edited by: fkingfurious on 03/09/2010 17:19:05
Edited by: fkingfurious on 03/09/2010 17:18:37
Right.
I'm buying me a Golem. I have a limited budget, about 1.4bn in fact and have come up with the following fit that, conveniently, costs about 1.4bn, give or take. I am fully aware that this is not a conventional Golem setup, but the "Recommended" fit (pithum a or c medium, 2x cn invuln, cn amp) is well out of my budget.
Heres the fit:
[Golem, torps]
Reactor Control Unit II
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
2x RF Painter
Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
2x Invuln II
Shield Boost Amplifier II
Pith A-Type X-Large Shield Booster (300mill, madness)
Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Javelin Torpedo
Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Javelin Torpedo
Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Javelin Torpedo
Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Javelin Torpedo
Small Tractor Beam I
Small Tractor Beam I
Salvager II
Large Hydraulic Bay Thrusters II
Large Rocket Fuel Cache Partition II
Hammerhead II x5
870 sustained (uniform) tank and 1060 reinforced. Cap lasts 5 minutes at max burn, which is never going to be necessary.
Now I am aware that cap booster fitting a mission boat isn't ideal (even less so when you need an RCU to do it) HOWEVER with the budget I have a cap stable setup requires some massive compromises. Obviously the Pithum A-type is well out of budget but the C-type isn't. Its about 350 mill. The problem comes when you fit that with vanilla hardeners because 2 CN Invulns at 800 mill totally blows the budget. Without them the C-Type tank is ****. A Gist large booster suffers the same problems, without CN invulns its really not up to scratch and isn't cap stable out of the box eiter requiring me to lose damage to bolster the cap.
Assuming that losing damage mods or painters really isnt an option can anyone see a way of getting a better setup within the constraints of the budget?
Ta
that is more the sufficient for sure... optimal ? i dunno let forum warriors decide :P |
RentableMuffin |
Posted - 2010.09.04 23:26:00 - [ 24]
Originally by: fkingfurious
Holy ****.
And here was me thinking that all was i going to do was roll up into a mission, blow stuff, loot a few wrecks and go home.
How wrong I was.
mission running is obviously serious business |
|
All Channels
Ships and Modules
