| Author |
Topic |
Shangpo
The Praxis Initiative
Gentlemen's Agreement |
Posted - 2010.07.30 13:15:00 - [ 1]
Not to beat a dead horse….
I think one of the issues CCP has is transparency. CCP thinks it is transparent, but the player base doesn’t think its transparent enough. (Reminds me of the government!)
I would argue that CCP is probably working on bug fixes all the time and each release there is a huge list of things fixed that we don’t hear about. As most of the player base are computer nerds and math junkies, I think CCP could make some easy changes and show the player base REAL statistics on how they are doing.
1) Provide weekly GM reports on the surveys that are done.
a. There is no question in my mind that the GM’s have pretty good ratings, but I would argue that the stats are skewed that it takes way to long. I think we would love to see some GM charts on how this process is improved (or not). I am pretty sure CCP has these already internally, but posting them would be a big help and be more transparent.
2) Each release CCP posts patch notes. I think a simple graph showing bug fixes (I am sure they have a bug tracking program that charts this) and how many were “killed” in each release would be very informative. I think the player base doesn’t realize how many bugs CCP kills each release.
I am a Six Sigma Black belt which means that I am all about statistics and charts. I think CCP could put together a simple screen that we can access to see some general dev information and chart progress.
Shang
|
Xaroth Brook
Minmatar
BIG
Gentlemen's Agreement |
Posted - 2010.07.30 14:04:00 - [ 2]
 Originally by: Shangpo
Not to beat a dead horse….
then stop beating? seriously... |
Cat o'Ninetails
Caldari
Rancer Defence League
|
Posted - 2010.07.30 14:16:00 - [ 3]
hi cat here
this is all very well lol but i have had a nother idea that it is not that bugs are being fixed all the time its that old ones are just painted over making the problem many harder to deal with in the future.
there are problems which are very old in this game, and ones the players have been vocal about for a long time. rockets is the cliche one along with AF bonii and fifth subsytems. then the players read a senior dev person basically say "fixes don't sell" just got them all rather riled
i think there should be a little popup box when you quit eve that has a happy face on it and a frowny face and then ppl click how they feel about their experience. if there are more frowny faces then happy faces it would show ccp that people have frowny faces not happy faces.
x
|
Caroll Yanaki
Gallente
Stir Crazy Research and Manufacturing
|
Posted - 2010.07.30 14:39:00 - [ 4]
On the contrary.
I think CCP is way too much transparent with the community. Thing is - you can never satisfy the community, no matter how much information you feed it with. Players will always ask more and more. Plain and simple.
I, myself, work as a Community Manager for an MMO studio and I can tell you from my own experience that the less players know, the better everything is. I know it sounds absurd and probably insulting to the players, but, all in all, as the EULA states - CCP is not entitled to inform you about anything. It's a matter of gesture. Hell, they have even written that they don't guarantee the constant supply of the service you pay for.
CCP should change its information policy radically and dump the "transparency, CSM, democracy, we listen to our players" crap.
Players should be informed only on a "need to know" basis. Period. Otherwise they will never be able to handle or control the community. And the company will always be under pressure. So will be the players. There are no winners in the current situation.
CCP will not roll back Apocrypha. It's too late.
They will not fix the lag tomorrow.
There are no miracles. It's the hard reality. This is a private company and it can do whateva it sees fit.
Several thousand 0.0 dwellers will not change anything, Incarna, PI and other crap will continue to be added, plain and simple.
And they have people that have analyzed the situation and came up with figures showing sub increase.
So... 150k people will leave EVE, and CCP can take the hit. Because the guys with the calculators have told them that 200k will come.
So, there will be +50k subs with Incarna, PI, DUST and barber shops in stations, all in all.
And CCP are dumb enough to share with the ****edoff playerbase it will take 18 months for the entire operation.
Stupid CCP.
Stupid. |
Shangpo
The Praxis Initiative
Gentlemen's Agreement |
Posted - 2010.07.30 15:00:00 - [ 5]
Originally by: Caroll Yanaki
On the contrary.
I think CCP is way too much transparent with the community. Thing is - you can never satisfy the community, no matter how much information you feed it with. Players will always ask more and more. Plain and simple.
I, myself, work as a Community Manager for an MMO studio and I can tell you from my own experience that the less players know, the better everything is. I know it sounds absurd and probably insulting to the players, but, all in all, as the EULA states - CCP is not entitled to inform you about anything. It's a matter of gesture. Hell, they have even written that they don't guarantee the constant supply of the service you pay for.
CCP should change its information policy radically and dump the "transparency, CSM, democracy, we listen to our players" crap.
Players should be informed only on a "need to know" basis. Period. Otherwise they will never be able to handle or control the community. And the company will always be under pressure. So will be the players. There are no winners in the current situation.
CCP will not roll back Apocrypha. It's too late.
They will not fix the lag tomorrow.
There are no miracles. It's the hard reality. This is a private company and it can do whateva it sees fit.
Several thousand 0.0 dwellers will not change anything, Incarna, PI and other crap will continue to be added, plain and simple.
And they have people that have analyzed the situation and came up with figures showing sub increase.
So... 150k people will leave EVE, and CCP can take the hit. Because the guys with the calculators have told them that 200k will come.
So, there will be +50k subs with Incarna, PI, DUST and barber shops in stations, all in all.
And CCP are dumb enough to share with the ****edoff playerbase it will take 18 months for the entire operation.
Stupid CCP.
Stupid.
Actually, I hadnt thought of this. You make some strong points here... I guess CCP has decided the transparent way is their mantra so its going to be hard to reverse course and make that change. I realize all games have bugs but in your experience does other games have this kind of forum rage on bugs? (I havent played many other MMO's enough to know) |
Zartrader |
Posted - 2010.07.30 15:08:00 - [ 6]
Edited by: Zartrader on 30/07/2010 15:10:07
The game needs a complete rewrite from the ground up. If the code is anything like the UI it must be in a complete mess, inconsistent, clunky, non intuitive and bug ridden; past the point of no return. CCP can't do a full rewrite so there is little point expecting too much. |
Helicity Boson
Amarr
The Python Cartel.
The Defenders of Pen Island |
Posted - 2010.07.30 15:15:00 - [ 7]
I don't know about excellent or being excellent at things.
I do know what is not excellent.
not excellent is: Not fixing rockets...since 2007 at least.
not excellent is: Implementing FW brokenly... and never iterating on it in over a year and a half.
not excellent is: Ignoring the needs of your core product for 18 months to push out an XBOX title that will fail
not excellent is: Breaking the core gameplay of fleet battles, which worked two expansions ago.
Not excellent is: Having a senior producer say "the data does not support polished content over new features"
Personal information removed. Navigator
I'm pretty close to giving up, truth be told.
|
Pel Ukken
Ice Fire Warriors
|
Posted - 2010.07.30 15:30:00 - [ 8]
Originally by: Caroll Yanaki
On the contrary.
So... 150k people will leave EVE, and CCP can take the hit. Because the guys with the calculators have told them that 200k will come.
Due to the "sandbox" nature of this game, the overall effect in-game of +100,000 characters (most of them nullsec and lowsec high skillpoint players) will have a much greater impact on EVE than +200,000 newbies flopping around in empire. Has this been factored in by the dudes with calculators? Probably not. |
AccesiViale
The Artful Dodgers
|
Posted - 2010.07.30 15:51:00 - [ 9]
companies that make software that matters and that people depend on are not any more transparent so i'm not sure why anyone thinks they are entitled to more info from ccp. If you want to know serious details about what ccp is really up to apply for a job and hang out by the water cooler and get yourself into every meeting...
also as transparency increases so do visible flaws and few corporation/government/or individual are fine with exposing themselves if they are not required to do so.
Lets be honest here what will happen. CCP will run damage control by having various devs offer explanations for what they do in the forums and dev blogs in the same manner they have been doing since...ever... and then the next expansion will come out. Some small bugs will get fixed, some large bugs will remain, and some bugs of various severity will be introduced...then reduced or hacked fixed in incarna + .01 and so on. Then we'll be right back here again in "18 months" looking at people complaining and others defending ccp.
The only thing that is going to change between now and 18 months...and after is that eve will be "bigger" (better tbd) and some in these forums will be a year older...and if statistics tell us anything, some of us will be dead.
|
John Ellsworth
Gallente |
Posted - 2010.07.30 16:38:00 - [ 10]
Edited by: John Ellsworth on 30/07/2010 16:39:35 Originally by: Shangpo
Not to beat a dead horse….
I think one of the issues CCP has is transparency. CCP thinks it is transparent, but the player base doesn’t think its transparent enough. (Reminds me of the government!)
I would argue that CCP is probably working on bug fixes all the time and each release there is a huge list of things fixed that we don’t hear about. As most of the player base are computer nerds and math junkies, I think CCP could make some easy changes and show the player base REAL statistics on how they are doing.
1) Provide weekly GM reports on the surveys that are done.
a. There is no question in my mind that the GM’s have pretty good ratings, but I would argue that the stats are skewed that it takes way to long. I think we would love to see some GM charts on how this process is improved (or not). I am pretty sure CCP has these already internally, but posting them would be a big help and be more transparent.
2) Each release CCP posts patch notes. I think a simple graph showing bug fixes (I am sure they have a bug tracking program that charts this) and how many were “killed” in each release would be very informative. I think the player base doesn’t realize how many bugs CCP kills each release.
I am a Six Sigma Black belt which means that I am all about statistics and charts. I think CCP could put together a simple screen that we can access to see some general dev information and chart progress.
Shang
problem is Shang most of the info your asking about , they don't want to give any info on IE adding to the bug or exploit info that more people can then abuse before it's fixed , it is truly a double edged sword they must wield here , I'm sure you can understand what they are doing it is the correct way to deal with the issue. -TLR |
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