| Author |
Topic |
Sykeout |
Posted - 2010.06.29 00:44:00 - [ 1]
Hey all thanks for reading this I understand this is a preference issue I'm just curious about your opinions/arguments.
My interests are 0.0 warfare, low sec pvp, hi-sec missionsing. In no particular order. I am currently an exclusively gallente pilot sitting at 17 mil sp. I am heavily focused on drones and armor tanking, but am not against training up for shield tanking. My currently most flown ships are Pvp: Vexor, Ishkur, Domi and for PvE: Ishtar and Domi.
Mimitar seem like a lot of fun for their small gang warfare with the rifters and hurricanes and the awesomeness of level 4's in the fabled macharial /drool.
Amarr gets me the curse and pilgrim and some mean Fleet warfare snipe BS's but it seems the Megathron will supply that need.
if anyone has any opinion, experiences or arguments on this topic please post I will be checking multiple times a day.
P.S. My wife wants it to be known that she thinks we are all nerds. |
Byzan Zwyth
Firebird Squadron
Terra-Incognita |
Posted - 2010.06.29 01:16:00 - [ 2]
if you are going to make the choice based on what performes best rather than personal choice.
For me it comes down to autocannons being maybe the best weapons system in the game, personally I think they are the best by far. So matar gets my vote.
But you need to aim for something particular... Like you said amarr recons are cool... matar Vagabond & Command ships are cool... For T3 maybe stick to Gallente... |
Shatner19 |
Posted - 2010.06.29 04:22:00 - [ 3]
go minmatar for 2 reasons:
#1 Machariel > cynabal > dramiel
#2 Vindicator > vigilant > daredevil |
Zilberfrid |
Posted - 2010.06.29 05:13:00 - [ 4]
Minni has quite a few armor tanks, rifter/wolf, rupture/muninn, hurricane and typhoon all make for good armor tankers. To really make minnie proud, you'd also need shield tanking though, but this will also help your domi, your myrmidon, and especially your ishtar.
With Amarr you have an additional damage type, almost covering your gun damage to all round (though angels will still be hard), they are all armor tanked, and use your gunnery and drone skills a bit better (though worse then the typhoon).
My decision was made due to the pirate ships that become available, two choices in each class versus none. |
Kenpotchi |
Posted - 2010.06.29 05:40:00 - [ 5]
Edited by: Kenpotchi on 29/06/2010 05:54:07
Edited by: Kenpotchi on 29/06/2010 05:48:48
Amarr have really nice ships also. I use them exclusevely for specialized fleet warfare. Most alliances run armor logistic fleets with the Damnation handing out boosts, Guardians running logistics, Geddons and Abaddons put out some mean DPS in RR BS fleets. For snipers Apoc is hands down the best snipe BS. The Zealot is just ahead of the Munin for snipe HACs. Zealot has more DPS, more buffer and its faster BUT the Munin has a higher alpha and alligns faster. The Devoter can put out a pretty mean buffer for holding super caps down. Amarr recons are really fun. Curse is a nice solo boat and a scarry thing to see on a scanner. The Pilgrim in my favoret choice for ganking unsuspecting ratters. The Harbinger is a great laser brawler. The Crusader has a great reputation for being a great inty. Amarr command ships are less desired in roaming fleets as the dont put out much more DPS then there BC counter parts. Amarr AFs are horrible. The Heratic isnt all that great of a interdictor. The Paladin is decent if you are doing missions in Amarr space.
As for ammo. They are pretty evenly matched in my opinion. They both have really nice mid range and close range ammo. Thank you CCP for these two great ammo types. Lets work on blasters.
Now if you are curious about capitals. Well thats a different thread. |
Sykeout |
Posted - 2010.06.29 08:07:00 - [ 6]
Thanks for your help guys' still looking for more opinions if they are out there :D. |
Lugalzagezi666 |
Posted - 2010.06.29 08:40:00 - [ 7]
Edited by: Lugalzagezi666 on 29/06/2010 08:41:51
Difference between :
going minmatar
- angel and serpentis pirate ships
- best frigs in eve /rifter, jag, leto + dram ofc/
- best dessie/dictor
- best cruiser, fotm battlecruiser
- command ships that are actually worth flying
- best nano hac, good sniperhac
- decent recon
- decent solo bses, decent rr bses
- perfect logi for nanogangs
- somewhat useful t3
going amarr
- no pirate ships
- slicer and sader are good /only some will say sentinel, but meh/
- meh /wellif you are suicide bubbler.../
- meh cruisers, harbi is good
- damnation is good, abso isnt worth the isk
- sac isnt very good ship /you already have deimos :)/, zealot is top hac
- pilgrim is only usable for hunting ratters, curse is top solo ship
- best rr bses, no real solo bs /tbh you have already domi and mega.../
- perfect logi for heavy gangs
- t3 that is useless
e: formatting |
raukosen |
Posted - 2010.06.29 09:15:00 - [ 8]
If you want to fly battleships in PvP go Amarr, otherwise go minnie |
CyberRaver
Wildly Inappropriate |
Posted - 2010.06.29 09:30:00 - [ 9]
Edited by: CyberRaver on 29/06/2010 09:33:15 Originally by: Lugalzagezi666
Edited by: Lugalzagezi666 on 29/06/2010 08:41:51
Difference between :
going minmatar
- angel and serpentis pirate ships
- best frigs in eve /rifter, jag, leto + dram ofc/
- best dessie/dictor
- best cruiser, fotm battlecruiser
- command ships that are actually worth flying
- best nano hac, good sniperhac
- decent recon
- decent solo bses, decent rr bses
- perfect logi for nanogangs
- somewhat useful t3
going amarr
- no pirate ships
- slicer and sader are good /only some will say sentinel, but meh/
- meh /wellif you are suicide bubbler.../
- meh cruisers, harbi is good
- damnation is good, abso isnt worth the isk
- sac isnt very good ship /you already have deimos :)/, zealot is top hac
- pilgrim is only usable for hunting ratters, curse is top solo ship
- best rr bses, no real solo bs /tbh you have already domi and mega.../
- perfect logi for heavy gangs
- t3 that is useless
e: formatting
Confirming this guy has no real clue on amarr ships :) Abso is great IF you train the skills to support it, probably one of the most tanky/dps command ships out there, 100k buffer in full gank fit?(sleipner is best due to its insane active tank) The sac is very nice selectable damage type with a hard to crack tank Amarr cruiser are indeed crap, until you hit bcs, then the harb comes into play, probably my most flown ship in eve The devoter is a great HIC, very tanky with fast lock It all ends in the point of what do you prefer doing? running away or charging into battle head on burning heretics with scorch, your already gallente so the drone skills are there to support the curse, and beleive me when i say that gangs will not come near your gang if your running curses You have the armour skills from gallente already, and scorch is borderline op |
Lugalzagezi666 |
Posted - 2010.06.29 09:42:00 - [ 10]
Originally by: CyberRaver
Confirming this guy has no real clue on amarr ships :)
Abso is great IF you train the skills to support it, probably one of the most tanky/dps command ships out there, 100k buffer in full gank fit?(sleipner is best due to its insane active tank)
The sac is very nice selectable damage type with a hard to crack tank
Confirming you are incompetent. Absolution does less damage than baddon, less range, less ehp, costs 3x more isk and has 1 less mid. It can only benefit from from its resists if you have dedicated logistics, in which case you are better with armored hacs that are faster, can project dps much better and can sig/speed tank. Sac is waste of time, it usually engages in scram range where it loses its mobility advantage = you would do better in bc. It has also loltastic dps and pretty fail defence vs frigs. |
Deva Blackfire
Viziam
|
Posted - 2010.06.29 10:07:00 - [ 11]
Originally by: CyberRaver
Confirming this guy has no real clue on amarr ships :)
Abso is great IF you train the skills to support it, probably one of the most tanky/dps command ships out there, 100k buffer in full gank fit?(sleipner is best due to its insane active tank)
The sac is very nice selectable damage type with a hard to crack tank
Amarr cruiser are indeed crap, until you hit bcs, then the harb comes into play, probably my most flown ship in eve
The devoter is a great HIC, very tanky with fast lock
It all ends in the point of what do you prefer doing? running away or charging into battle head on burning heretics with scorch, your already gallente so the drone skills are there to support the curse, and beleive me when i say that gangs will not come near your gang if your running curses
You have the armour skills from gallente already, and scorch is borderline op
Confirming you dont have a clue. Abso is mediciore at best. When it comes to combat efficiency it is barely better than harbinger for 5x (?) the cost. Its slow, damage is weak (sleipnir outdamages it easily in almost whole abso range). Only buffer is somewhat decent but if you want buffer/damage you use battleships not command ships. Thus no particular role abso would be useful at all. Well one... carrying gangmod. But then you can put gangmod on any other BC (or even sleipnir if you must) and still have similiar efficiency so there isnt rly a point in using abso at all. Devoter is like every other HIC - to pin down stuff. When it comes to particular roles it is just in the middle. Best lowsec HIC is actually Phobos due to more mids. It is also almost the same in general fleet combat (lacks 1 low compared to Devoter but actually has better base resists for fleet fights on kin/thermal rather than explo/kin). For tackling supercaps it doesnt rly matter - you need injector and as much EHP as you can get. Again both phobos and devoter deliver. (Onyx and Broad can have somewhat different roles due to lack of injector = can be easily neuted but most of the time its about number of HICs not their type). So as dude before said: if you want to go for fleet ops (aka blobs) go amarr. You will use battleships/zealot most of the time. If you want somewhat diverse ships go matari. More solo ships and still decent fleet BS (phoon/pest). |
CyberRaver
Wildly Inappropriate |
Posted - 2010.06.29 10:25:00 - [ 12]
Edited by: CyberRaver on 29/06/2010 10:30:47 Originally by: Lugalzagezi666
Originally by: CyberRaver
Confirming this guy has no real clue on amarr ships :)
Abso is great IF you train the skills to support it, probably one of the most tanky/dps command ships out there, 100k buffer in full gank fit?(sleipner is best due to its insane active tank)
The sac is very nice selectable damage type with a hard to crack tank
Confirming you are incompetent.
Absolution does less damage than baddon, less range, less ehp, costs 3x more isk and has 1 less mid. It can only benefit from from its resists if you have dedicated logistics, in which case you are better with armored hacs that are faster, can project dps much better and can sig/speed tank.
Sac is waste of time, it usually engages in scram range where it loses its mobility advantage = you would do better in bc. It has also loltastic dps and pretty fail defence vs frigs.
Its not meant to be an abaddon though is it? Its like saying a zealot is worse then a harb because it costs more Its a good ship, if hes doing it in low sec its even better as it can actually take some sentry fire Its a heavy tanked slugger, and just because its not FOTM does not make it useless :) Im currently finding them very useful |
Lugalzagezi666 |
Posted - 2010.06.29 10:54:00 - [ 13]
Its useless because there are better ships for every situation.
|
Ackbarre
Minmatar
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation |
Posted - 2010.06.29 11:05:00 - [ 14]
As a Minmatar pilot I fly Gallente, Caldari, and Minmatar ships up to Battleships. And Amarr up to Battlecruisers. By far my favorite Battleships are the Raven, Tempest, and Megathron but my favorite Battlecruisers are the Cane, Brutix, Drake, and Prophecy. The Prophecy can fit an amazing tank and can use hybrids like blasters or rails. I personally put autocannons on my Prophecy and a stiff tank. |
Isabelle Sparks |
Posted - 2010.06.29 11:12:00 - [ 15]
Originally by: Byzan Zwyth
For me it comes down to autocannons being maybe the best weapons system in the game, personally I think they are the best by far. So matar gets my vote.
Autocannons best weapon? I think not, short range and pretty weak DPS. They are squarely in between Puls lasers and Blasters. I do like Artillery these days though. Arty Cane, or Arty BS's are pretty nice now, especially in laggy situations. If I were a Gallente Pilot I would train Amarr first. Getting into a pulse BS will satisfy the Gallente weakness (ie Blasters). Personally, I trained Minnie first, but have since trained into T2 Large pulses too. I now use Arty Pest for LR BS and Pulse Apoc for CR BS. I am totally happy. |
Jin Nib
Resplendent Knives |
Posted - 2010.06.29 11:19:00 - [ 16]
I think for Amarr you'd get more bang for the skills you already have trained. Other then that they're both great, I couldn't really give you a preference cause I pretty much trained them both up at the same time. Mini is more skill intensive though.
Also if you like drone boats it's hard to go wrong with a Curse :D |
Kenpotchi |
Posted - 2010.06.29 14:00:00 - [ 17]
Originally by: CyberRaver
Edited by: CyberRaver on 29/06/2010 10:30:47
Originally by: Lugalzagezi666
Originally by: CyberRaver
Confirming this guy has no real clue on amarr ships :)
Abso is great IF you train the skills to support it, probably one of the most tanky/dps command ships out there, 100k buffer in full gank fit?(sleipner is best due to its insane active tank)
The sac is very nice selectable damage type with a hard to crack tank
Confirming you are incompetent.
Absolution does less damage than baddon, less range, less ehp, costs 3x more isk and has 1 less mid. It can only benefit from from its resists if you have dedicated logistics, in which case you are better with armored hacs that are faster, can project dps much better and can sig/speed tank.
Sac is waste of time, it usually engages in scram range where it loses its mobility advantage = you would do better in bc. It has also loltastic dps and pretty fail defence vs frigs.
Its not meant to be an abaddon though is it?
Its like saying a zealot is worse then a harb because it costs more
Its a good ship, if hes doing it in low sec its even better as it can actually take some sentry fire
Its a heavy tanked slugger, and just because its not FOTM does not make it useless :)
Im currently finding them very useful
Your right the Abso isnt like the abaddon but when it comes to buffer and DPS you should fly the Abaddon over the Abso. Its not really cost effective to fly the abso over the Harbinger or the Abaddon ither. For low sec and 0.0 roaming you want speed and manuverabitity over the slow buffer ships. The shield Harbinger is an awesome choice if you cant fly the cane. It puts out 20 less DPS then the Abso and has better manuverability. All in all in every situation there is a better ship then the Abso for the job and costs less. The Zelot is a snip HAC. Sure you could use it as a brawler but the Harbinger puts out more DPS, has more EHP and is much more cost effective. Once you learn that every ship has a role and a place in fleet your life and your wallet will be much better. |
Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative. |
Posted - 2010.06.29 14:26:00 - [ 18]
Cross-training from Gallante to Amarr should be very simple and SP-efficient, as the support skillset is pretty much identical. Literally all you should need are the ship skills and S/M/L Turret to 5 and the turret spec skills.
Going to Minmatar will take longer, as you'll need to top up your shield skills, and maybe your navigation skills as well.
But as both the Amarr and Minmatar lineup are way superior to the Gallante ship range IMO, and they also complement each other very well, your question should more properly be "Which should I do first".
My advice: T2 Medium lasers -> Amarr Cruiser 5 -> Shield Skills -> T2 medium projectiles -> Minmatar Cruiser 5 -> Navigation Skills -> Make BS decision based on current conditions and what space you're in, what ships your corp flies, latest CCP nerf/buff/troll of playerbase etc., etc. |
Torpir Lee
Caldari
School of Applied Knowledge |
Posted - 2010.06.29 15:27:00 - [ 19]
Gallente should fill your Fleet BS needs, and frankly getting Amarr just so you can do a bit more DPS in fleet battles just isn't worth it.
Minmatar gives you so much more than that. 6 nice to awesome faction ships, versatile PvE platforms, a large variety of gang+solo PvP ships, etc.
I would even argue Minmatar has good Fleet BS's solely on the fact that their cap stable DPS potential is awesome for shooting structures. |
Ghaylenty |
Posted - 2010.06.29 17:15:00 - [ 20]
megathron for fleets, vagabond for everything else... deimos for when you're feeling overpowered and need to be reminded you are mortal |
Wildcarrd |
Posted - 2010.06.29 22:27:00 - [ 21]
Originally by: Lugalzagezi666
Edited by: Lugalzagezi666 on 29/06/2010 08:41:51
Difference between :
going minmatar
- angel and serpentis pirate ships
- best frigs in eve /rifter, jag, leto + dram ofc/
- best dessie/dictor
- best cruiser, fotm battlecruiser
- command ships that are actually worth flying
- best nano hac, good sniperhac
- decent recon
- decent solo bses, decent rr bses
- perfect logi for nanogangs
- somewhat useful t3
going amarr
- no pirate ships
- slicer and sader are good /only some will say sentinel, but meh/
- meh /wellif you are suicide bubbler.../
- meh cruisers, harbi is good
- damnation is good, abso isnt worth the isk
- sac isnt very good ship /you already have deimos :)/, zealot is top hac
- pilgrim is only usable for hunting ratters, curse is top solo ship
- best rr bses, no real solo bs /tbh you have already domi and mega.../
- perfect logi for heavy gangs
- t3 that is useless
e: formatting
nullThe Blood Raiders would like a word with you |
Lugalzagezi666 |
Posted - 2010.06.29 23:28:00 - [ 22]
Originally by: Wildcarrd
Originally by: Lugalzagezi666
Edited by: Lugalzagezi666 on 29/06/2010 08:41:51
Difference between :
going minmatar
- angel and serpentis pirate ships
- best frigs in eve /rifter, jag, leto + dram ofc/
- best dessie/dictor
- best cruiser, fotm battlecruiser
- command ships that are actually worth flying
- best nano hac, good sniperhac
- decent recon
- decent solo bses, decent rr bses
- perfect logi for nanogangs
- somewhat useful t3
going amarr
- no pirate ships
- slicer and sader are good /only some will say sentinel, but meh/
- meh /wellif you are suicide bubbler.../
- meh cruisers, harbi is good
- damnation is good, abso isnt worth the isk
- sac isnt very good ship /you already have deimos :)/, zealot is top hac
- pilgrim is only usable for hunting ratters, curse is top solo ship
- best rr bses, no real solo bs /tbh you have already domi and mega.../
- perfect logi for heavy gangs
- t3 that is useless
e: formatting
nullThe Blood Raiders would like a word with you
So he has gallente frig/cruiser/bs and training amarr frig/cruiser/bs opens blood raider ships to him... oh wait...  What about thinking little bit before posting? |
Sykeout |
Posted - 2010.06.30 18:20:00 - [ 23]
Thanks for your continued help guys, I'm kind of leaning toward cross training minni right now but will probably train the skills to be in a curse "think I only need Amarr Cruiser 5" which wouldn't take too long. Also thanks for all your help more opinions are of course wanted. |
Sonya Kranz |
Posted - 2010.07.01 23:03:00 - [ 24]
I have actually been thinking about this for my main, where to head next when im done with gallente boats.
I am currently leaning towards minmatar next, simply because it adds a lot more variety to your ship arsenal then amarr does. Though amarr does have its advantages and is a bit quicker to get into, i do have shield tanking trained anyway for my ishtar so thats not such a big problem if i want to go minmatar
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