Posted - 2010.06.28 17:50:00 - [3]

 

Edited by: James Tritanius on 28/06/2010 17:49:56
Get a harbinger. Harbinger > better fit omen for level 2 missions.

Posted - 2010.06.28 18:24:00 - [5]

 

TBH,I was thinking more about the learning experience than mission efficiency. And a Omen is great for learning things like adapting transversal speed to hit frigates. Learned that in a maller without drones as backup, silly noob me used a smartbomb instead. Makes for nice fireworks on constructs of destroyable objects.

Posted - 2010.06.28 19:10:00 - [7]

 

Originally by: Veliria

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Originally by: Abrazzar

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TBH,I was thinking more about the learning experience than mission efficiency. And a Omen is great for learning things like adapting transversal speed to hit frigates. Learned that in a maller without drones as backup, silly noob me used a smartbomb instead. Makes for nice fireworks on constructs of destroyable objects.

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Wasn't there a time when smartbombing destroyables or such (or the accel gate) caused CONCORD to drop by and kindly ask you to roll down your window and show your license?

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Once upon a time, or so I heard. Myself, I never got CONCORDead with my smartbombing. So either I was just lucky or it was already fixed back then.

Posted - 2010.06.28 20:04:00 - [9]

 

Getting into a harby will give you more flexibility for fitting, making it easier, but what it really comes down to for a newer player, in my opinion, is this: Train your core support skills. Training for bigger classes of ships is fun. Training for new kinds of weapons is fun. Training your core support skills isn't as fun, but in the long run you'll have a lot more fun in the game once they're solid. Then as you progress up through the ship classes, each new class you fly will be much more solid than it would have been otherwise, and much more capable. Flying a ship that you can technically fly, but don't have the proper support skills for gets very expensive, and very frustrating when you lose ship after ship.

Posted - 2010.06.28 20:48:00 - [11]

 

Originally by: Deviate Sin

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Getting into a harby will give you more flexibility for fitting, making it easier, but what it really comes down to for a newer player, in my opinion, is this: Train your core support skills. Training for bigger classes of ships is fun. Training for new kinds of weapons is fun. Training your core support skills isn't as fun, but in the long run you'll have a lot more fun in the game once they're solid. Then as you progress up through the ship classes, each new class you fly will be much more solid than it would have been otherwise, and much more capable. Flying a ship that you can technically fly, but don't have the proper support skills for gets very expensive, and very frustrating when you lose ship after ship.

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Might be true for pvp, but in pve, efficiency is usually what you are aiming for (since you won't be losing ships anyway, and even if you do, you'll be less likely to lose a larger ship than a smaller one.)

Posted - 2010.06.29 02:55:00 - [13]

 

Edited by: James Tritanius on 29/06/2010 03:00:28

Originally by: Deviate Sin

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Originally by: James Tritanius

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Originally by: Deviate Sin

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Getting into a harby will give you more flexibility for fitting, making it easier, but what it really comes down to for a newer player, in my opinion, is this: Train your core support skills. Training for bigger classes of ships is fun. Training for new kinds of weapons is fun. Training your core support skills isn't as fun, but in the long run you'll have a lot more fun in the game once they're solid. Then as you progress up through the ship classes, each new class you fly will be much more solid than it would have been otherwise, and much more capable. Flying a ship that you can technically fly, but don't have the proper support skills for gets very expensive, and very frustrating when you lose ship after ship.

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Might be true for pvp, but in pve, efficiency is usually what you are aiming for (since you won't be losing ships anyway, and even if you do, you'll be less likely to lose a larger ship than a smaller one.)

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So you are saying someone with low sp's and fairly new to the game (running level 2 missions?) isn't going to lose ships? I find that difficult to believe. We all had a learning curve. A larger ship isn't going to help if it can't be properly fitted due to poor support skills. A larger ship is just as succeptible to being scrammed/webbed/neuted by npc's and getting popped, you just have longer to cry about it as you're getting popped. Upgrading to a bigger ship and then training the support skills to fly it afterward is definitely putting the cart before the horse. As was mentioned earlier in this thread, it's not like the support skills are going to go to waste when you upgrade ships, they're going to benefit you throughout yoru EVE career, so may as well get the full benefit sooner rather than later.

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Yes, I am saying that it extremely unlikely that one would lose a battlecruiser in a level 2 mission, even to new players. That extra few percentages gained by extensively training support skills are not at all important compared to the leaps and bounds you are going to receive by upgrading your ship class.

Who cares if you have 10% more powergrid on an Omen if I can have double that much in Harbinger? Who cares if you can do 10% more damage with your guns if I have 7 of them compared to your 5? Who cares if your capacitor recharges 5% faster if I have 40% more base recharge? Who cares if your drones can each do 20% more damage when you only have 3 lights and I have 5 mediums? Who cares if you have 5% better tracking when I can fit an extra web? Who cares if your armor repairer runs 5% faster if I can fit another hardener?

Posted - 2010.06.29 05:45:00 - [15]

 

Edited by: James Tritanius on 29/06/2010 05:46:34

Originally by: Atsuko Ratu

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Originally by: James Tritanius

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Yes, I am saying that it extremely unlikely that one would lose a battlecruiser in a level 2 mission, even to new players. That extra few percentages gained by extensively training support skills are not at all important compared to the leaps and bounds you are going to receive by upgrading your ship class.

Who cares if you have 10% more powergrid on an Omen if I can have double that much in Harbinger? Who cares if you can do 10% more damage with your guns if I have 7 of them compared to your 5? Who cares if your capacitor recharges 5% faster if I have 40% more base recharge? Who cares if your drones can each do 20% more damage when you only have 3 lights and I have 5 mediums? Who cares if you have 5% better tracking when I can fit an extra web? Who cares if your armor repairer runs 5% faster if I can fit another hardener?

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Who cares if a new player gets too comfortable insta-gibbing missions in a ship class one size too large when you move on to level 3s and die in the first 3 missions?

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This would only happen if the new player doesn't not have a clue and doesn't know there is a difference between level 2 and level 3 missions. And if he doesn't have a clue, I would bet that he would die regardless of whether he ran his level 2s in a cruiser or a battlecruiser.

Actually, I would also assert that he would stand a better chance in a level 3 mission if he had extensively flown a battlecruiser before. This way, he'd know the capabilities of his ship. He would be in more trouble if he just bought a brand new battlecruiser for the sole purpose level 3 mission running (and even more silliness if you imply that he should use a cruiser for L3s.)

But, in the end, you do agree that a battlecruiser would be more efficient. Your argument that it is too efficient, which is not the case, and also impossible.

Posted - 2010.06.29 06:25:00 - [17]

 

Originally by: Corrain

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Not everyone learns a game by reading up on every bit of Internet mission walkthroughs and fitting guides.

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I don't understand this part.

Posted - 2010.06.29 08:51:00 - [19]

 

Edited by: Tonto Auri on 29/06/2010 08:53:40

Originally by: Yuki Kulotsuki

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Originally by: Corrain

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Not everyone learns a game by reading up on every bit of Internet mission walkthroughs and fitting guides.

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I don't understand this part.

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Neither me. Although, I'm confident enough to only resort to extensive research if i'm loosing my ship. (Which means, I was doing something stupid, or, rarely, mission bugged)

Originally by: Diomidis

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There are good cruisers for missioning, but the omen is not one of them.

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I have to disagree with this statement, but it needs to emphase once again what was said in this thread already - Omen is extremely skill-intensive ship.
AWU5+Cruisers V turn this less-than-average chunk of steel into a bright flash of destruction.

Posted - 2010.06.29 13:03:00 - [21]

 

Originally by: Corrain

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Quote:

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Yes, I am saying that it extremely unlikely that one would lose a battlecruiser in a level 2 mission, even to new players.

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I can easily picture a new person losing a BC to, say, Recon. Especially one who is thinking "Woot! I'm in a BATTLECRUISER! I will... WTF?!!1"

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Who is more likely to do that? The player who has been flying the battlecruiser for weeks or the player who just bought and never flown one?

Originally by: Corrain

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Not everyone learns a game by reading up on every bit of Internet mission walkthroughs and fitting guides.

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Guess what, if he is asking this question on the forums, I'm pretty sure he is the type that seeks out external help.

Originally by: Corrain

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More to be gained, and less to be lost, running L2s in a cruiser when a person is new, and learning both player and character skills. Will develop a much better feel for limitations, tactics, and how fitting and core skills can serve him well.

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You will develop the same skills with a battlecruiser. Handicapping yourself intentionally is never the answer.