| Author |
Topic |
lodik |
Posted - 2010.06.27 10:35:00 - [ 61]
hokus pokus |
Jill Xelitras
Xeltec services |
Posted - 2010.06.27 10:38:00 - [ 62]
 Originally by: Deganos
What would be nice is the abilty to speed up your skill training by practicing your art. The ideal balance between skill training and grinding. Much better gameplay wise then buying your skills. However not so good moneywise for CCP wich means less awesome updates...
See, it is a misconception to think that the SP in EVE improve the way you do things in EVE. Certainly you have skills that will directly improve your income or your abilities, but most skillbooks are there to prevent you from doing something straight away. The skillbooks replace MMORPG-classes. The time you spend to improve one skillset is the time you can't use to improve a different skillset. You have to chose if you want to spend a week improving your mining or spend a week improving your scanning or a week improving your tanking ... The other important fact is that there are skills that improve as you repeatedly perform them. Any good interceptor pilot will tell you that they became good through "practicing their art" as you put it. Actually any pvp pilot will tell you that they improved their abilities by repeatedly going into combat. Some skills won't require any SP trained. You don't believe me ? Well, it takes no SP to scam people, but it is not the most untalented people that come up with scams that actually work. Jill. |
Jill Xelitras
Xeltec services |
Posted - 2010.06.27 11:01:00 - [ 63]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Borgis Lobal
plex for SP would be fantastic, I really don't see how it could destroy eve.
Choice becomes irrelevant. Variety becomes non-existent. That's about as close to "destroy" as things get, short of removing the market.
Yep ! Eve would become cap ships vs cap ships, since training to fly a cap ship would be instantly. Everyone would own all BPOs they need to produce their own cap ships, since training all industry skills would only be a matter of buying SP. Any new skill-set introduced in an expansion would be accessible instantly. Everyone would train a hauler alt to go shopping in Jita. Everyone would immediately buy the SP to be able to use the flavour of the month modules. More people would create 1 man alliances instead of 1 man corps, training the skills to do so is a matter of seconds when you can buy SP. Everyone would be their own POS gunner. Everyone would have all leadership skills maxed out. A 1 vs 1 would end in both sides hotdropping eachother. Jill. |
Mal Kuni |
Posted - 2010.06.27 11:08:00 - [ 64]
1. Buy gtcs
2. Sell gtcs
3. Buy characters
Enough of this subject already, please. |
BrundleMeth
Caldari
Temporal Mechanics
|
Posted - 2010.06.27 12:16:00 - [ 65]
Originally by: Mal Kuni
1. Buy gtcs
2. Sell gtcs
3. Buy characters
Enough of this subject already, please.
Yep, worked for me quite well. The only thing I didn't like was the characters name. (Not Brundle). Buy buying 2 toons on the Bazarr, I bypassed 2 years of training. Besides selling SP would work well with some sort of a cap like the Skill Queue. Limit it to 5-10 Million SP a year. |
Khun SP
Paramite Factories |
Posted - 2010.06.27 16:37:00 - [ 66]
this would kill EVE... everyone and his dog would get 100m SP
be patient... |
Gavjack Bunk
Gallente
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED |
Posted - 2010.06.27 17:45:00 - [ 67]
Originally by: Khun SP
this would kill EVE... everyone and his dog would get 100m SP
be patient...
These would be the secret millionaires that they told you don't exist on the last page... fall in line, tow the line... get an endorsement from a ::bittervet:: |
Celeste Coeval
The Gosimer and Scarab
|
Posted - 2010.06.27 17:52:00 - [ 68]
Originally by: Gavjack Bunk
Originally by: Khun SP
this would kill EVE... everyone and his dog would get 100m SP
be patient...
These would be the secret millionaires that they told you don't exist on the last page... fall in line, tow the line... get an endorsement from a ::bittervet::
wtf are you on about bitternoob? |
Jovialmadness |
Posted - 2010.06.28 13:43:00 - [ 69]
 I'm fairly certain some of you more freakish types would have sp totals equating to the size of greece's national debt if any kind of sp grind mechanism were added. Ba ba baa baaaa baaaaaaad bad bad idea.  |
Takakura Hirohito |
Posted - 2010.06.28 13:55:00 - [ 70]
|
Movarer |
Posted - 2010.06.28 14:00:00 - [ 71]
Originally by: Takakura Hirohito
Originally by: Jovialmadness
I'm fairly certain some of you more freakish types would have sp totals equating to the size of greece's national debt if any kind of sp grind mechanism were added.
Ba ba baa baaaa baaaaaaad bad bad idea.
Sorry if it has been mentioned already, but for all of you that think there is no sp grinding in EvE, you're all idiots. Really. In these same forums, check out the character bazaar. Legal isk-for-sp transactions.
As I said in the other topic though, SOMEONE skilled those chars up. Its not instant access to whatever skills you want, someone else has done the work already. Not like an influx of SP out of thin air and also, once you get the bought char your direction from there is determined by what choices you make. With buyable SP, you can most probably get lets say, a perfect hulk pilot, then get bored of mining. Then you buy perfect carrier skills and get bored of that. Its not as it is atm, there is no *choice* if you can have what you want when you want it. |
Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
|
Posted - 2010.06.28 14:00:00 - [ 72]
Originally by: Takakura Hirohito
Sorry if it has been mentioned already, but for all of you that think there is no sp grinding in EvE, you're all idiots. Really. In these same forums, check out the character bazaar. Legal isk-for-sp transactions.
It has been mentioned already, and the answer is always the same: not the same thing.Those characters have been built over time, as you point out, and are then traded; not mass-insta-spawned out of nowhere. |
Reldor Silverheart
Gallente |
Posted - 2010.06.28 14:19:00 - [ 73]
Why not allow people to get free ships along with the bought SP with faction fittings and all at the same time, maybe even start handing out titans to those who want them?
Bad bad bad bad idea, really. It it needed with another post when there's allready billions of them allready? Please CCP just remove all of theese threads or merge them into one thread alone. I'm tired of having 80% of the first page of the same type of thread just in a different package. I am a newer player myself, but this is a really bad idea, because you know why? Even a 2 weeks to a month old new player can be a asset in the game a least pvp wise.
Heard of tackle frigs? yeah... a new player can buy a cheap frig, fit some tackle and then begin to pvp, i know some want to pve or mine but it's not a huge difference there either. Retrievers aint that hard to get into neither are they expensive. Also, SP is one thing, but experience is more imporant if you want to fly a ship.
Let's have an example of 2 chars, let's just base that theese two will have the same skillsets and amount of SP to keep it simple. To simplify it more it will be a pvp scenario, and they both pvp at the same basis of time, for simplicitys sake make it three times a week.
Character one has played for six months and can pilot a raven with good fitting, on top of that the player has pvp'd during his playtime. That player will have good knowledge of pvp solo or in fleets depending on his playstyle, the player will most likely also know how fleet works etc aswell how to utilize his skills to a good extent, he's also somewhat familiar to loosing ships and can handle such losses.
Character two is one month old. The character also wants to fly the raven in pvp. This player has a little pvp experience for that one month of playtime. The best ship this pilot can fly is a drake and that is with good skills. This player wants to fly the raven instead like i said earlier, his problem is that he can't fly it and even if he could fly it it would be with okayish skills, what this player wants is to fly it with the best skills possible, but isn't willing to spend time to train for the raven. The player opts to buy SP instead. He has just enough to be able to afford a raven and hasn't experienced many losses in pvp. Mainly frigates.
The main difference here is that player one opted to take the slow path, slow because it requires more time to reach said goal. But during that time he has been able to accumulate more experience in pvp and probably lost a few ships among the way aswell as got means to replace lost ships. Player two on the other hand will have the exact same skillset, but what becomes the issue here is that he's probably got a very small amount of pvp experience due to being a younger character and hasn't been able to pvp as much as character one.
My point here is that, SP isn't everything, you need experience aswell, my understanding of eve is that it is a progressive game not a instant game. Keep in mind i haven't played for that long, only four or five months. But i've also picked up that the best way to progress in pvp experience is to learn the basics, and that is easiest done by starting small. You will also get a better feeling over a longer time what you actually want to do with your character.
Which brings me to this aspect, just in theory if you could buy SP. What would happen if you later on after you buy the SP maybe a month or so later that this blows, this wasn't what i wanted to do. Well in my eyes that means you just wasted alot of money just to get a easy progress.
I like this game for it's complexity, good learning curve and that it is very open enden, true there are imbalances, but still. This is what makes EVE differ from other MMO's , it doesn't have the simplicity which many other mmo's do also being on one cluster makes it more alive than others. I used to play WoW for a while and well, Separate servers can become ghost towns. Eve doesn't have that risk.
|
Gavjack Bunk
Gallente
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED |
Posted - 2010.06.28 14:49:00 - [ 74]
Originally by: Tippia
not mass-insta-spawned out of nowhere.
Goddam millionaires... always mass insta spawning things.... bastards.... |
Siigari Kitawa
Gallente
Perditus Peregrinus
|
Posted - 2010.06.28 16:05:00 - [ 75]
Originally by: Kurt Thyboe
10$ = 1M skillpoints are fair to pay.
peopel does not have to use this way. they can train the normal way if their want to.
GET OUT OF MY GAME. People here have trained for years to attain 100 million skillpoints. It is a barrier to be broken, as it shows dedication and excellent planning. To wipe that out with one high schooler's paycheck is absolutely unbelievably wrong. $100 is 6 months of Eve subscriptions. If CCP were EVER to charge for SP (which they won't) I imagine it would be $150 for 1 million skillpoints. Straight up. Get out of my game, you lunatic. |
Paeniteo
Vengeance Imperium
Wildly Inappropriate. |
Posted - 2010.06.28 16:24:00 - [ 76]
Edited by: Paeniteo on 28/06/2010 17:15:41 Originally by: Ranger 1
Isk for skill points is a short sighted concept that is being promoted by people that have no idea why the vast majority of people play this game, and who lack the maturity to realize that if progressing in the game were that easy people would quickly lose interest and move on to other games.
We don't play EVE because it's easy and quick. We play EVE because it requires choices, sometimes difficult ones, and those choices have consequences. This includes how you decided to prioritize the way you train your character, and once that choice is made it cannot be quickly and easily undone. This very basic premise also applies to learning skills. If you want a game where you can buy your way to excellence, pick a different game.
You also really need to realize that if I start a character and spend a couple of months specializing in frigates, and you spend two days and a lot of money buying the skills necessary to fly a battleship, I will still kill you. Why? Because I have developed the personal skills to fly my chosen ship to it's maximum capacity. You, in that situation, would have no clue... die... and emo-rage-quit because you don't have a sense of personal investment and achievement in that character. All you have is frustration and the feeling that you wasted a lot of money for nothing.
Perhaps you should consider not promoting ideas that can, and would, do serious damage to the core concepts of the game.
Well said. I like to think of a good character as a bonsai tree: it is necessary to cut branches to make something truly beautiful. You can't just go whichever way you like and expect results, there is a certain degree of dedication required; you're going to have to overcome the temptation to do everything and your reward for doing this is purpose. You become a niche part of EVE's society and now you may move on to a new path to increase your options. A bad character more resembles a tumbleweed. Overgrown too quickly, branched out in all directions, quite useless to everybody (except as kindling) and ultimately short lived. Usually the product of ADHD dabblers who then go on to rant about how crap EVE is. EVE is in the end a role playing game. Instant gratification is not the goal - the goal is to create a believable universe which players can get immersed in and appreciate for what it is. In a believable universe, the harsh fact is that you don't just become the emperor overnight. At best you get the same opportunities as everyone else - the thing that makes a truly deep world is the different things people do with those opportunities and what place in society they ultimately take. If SP can be bought then that whole concept flies out the window. Whatever sacrifices you made to become proficient in one field can just be bought away. Whatever choices you made to shape your character and find them a real place in EVE can be replicated at the drop of a credit card. You might kill the rich CEO of a mining corp and find the next day that half of their previously pure carebear corp is armed to the teeth and has wardecced you. Well there goes their place in eve, your place in eve, the mercenary's place in eve, my suspension of disbelief and the integrity of the whole EVE universe. |
Jovialmadness |
Posted - 2010.06.28 17:18:00 - [ 77]
Edited by: Jovialmadness on 28/06/2010 17:35:52Edited by: Jovialmadness on 28/06/2010 17:34:02 Originally by: Takakura Hirohito
Originally by: Jovialmadness
I'm fairly certain some of you more freakish types would have sp totals equating to the size of greece's national debt if any kind of sp grind mechanism were added.
Ba ba baa baaaa baaaaaaad bad bad idea.
Sorry if it has been mentioned already, but for all of you that think there is no sp grinding in EvE,you're all idiots. Really. In these same forums, check out the character bazaar. Legal isk-for-sp transactions.
Wut? Dude wut? I'm talking about kids or jobless types getting extra sp's out of the skill they use ingame such as shooting lazors. These people then play for freaking hours on end and surpass those who can't play at those same frequencies. How the **** can normal character creation and normal character progression, as it is now, even remotely be considered a grind. You are going to get burned down arguing with the jovial. Edit: and to elaborate on that a bit, grinding could also refer to killing a rat and getting straight sp's for that. The above scenario I initially stated is one that the, "let's give eve some extra sp love" crowd brings up every year or so.. |
Alex Tantra
Minmatar
Brutor Tribe |
Posted - 2010.06.28 18:04:00 - [ 78]
Originally by: Paeniteo
Edited by: Paeniteo on 28/06/2010 17:15:41
Originally by: Ranger 1
Isk for skill points is a short sighted concept that is being promoted by people that have no idea why the vast majority of people play this game, and who lack the maturity to realize that if progressing in the game were that easy people would quickly lose interest and move on to other games.
We don't play EVE because it's easy and quick. We play EVE because it requires choices, sometimes difficult ones, and those choices have consequences. This includes how you decided to prioritize the way you train your character, and once that choice is made it cannot be quickly and easily undone. This very basic premise also applies to learning skills. If you want a game where you can buy your way to excellence, pick a different game.
You also really need to realize that if I start a character and spend a couple of months specializing in frigates, and you spend two days and a lot of money buying the skills necessary to fly a battleship, I will still kill you. Why? Because I have developed the personal skills to fly my chosen ship to it's maximum capacity. You, in that situation, would have no clue... die... and emo-rage-quit because you don't have a sense of personal investment and achievement in that character. All you have is frustration and the feeling that you wasted a lot of money for nothing.
Perhaps you should consider not promoting ideas that can, and would, do serious damage to the core concepts of the game.
Well said.
I like to think of a good character as a bonsai tree: it is necessary to cut branches to make something truly beautiful. You can't just go whichever way you like and expect results, there is a certain degree of dedication required; you're going to have to overcome the temptation to do everything and your reward for doing this is purpose. You become a niche part of EVE's society and now you may move on to a new path to increase your options. A bad character more resembles a tumbleweed. Overgrown too quickly, branched out in all directions, quite useless to everybody (except as kindling) and ultimately short lived. Usually the product of ADHD dabblers who then go on to rant about how crap EVE is.
EVE is in the end a role playing game. Instant gratification is not the goal - the goal is to create a believable universe which players can get immersed in and appreciate for what it is. In a believable universe, the harsh fact is that you don't just become the emperor overnight. At best you get the same opportunities as everyone else - the thing that makes a truly deep world is the different things people do with those opportunities and what place in society they ultimately take.
If SP can be bought then that whole concept flies out the window. Whatever sacrifices you made to become proficient in one field can just be bought away. Whatever choices you made to shape your character and find them a real place in EVE can be replicated at the drop of a credit card. You might kill the rich CEO of a mining corp and find the next day that half of their previously pure carebear corp is armed to the teeth and has wardecced you.
Well there goes their place in eve, your place in eve, the mercenary's place in eve, my suspension of disbelief and the integrity of the whole EVE universe.
All of this. |
Jan VanRijkdom
Gallente
Jan VanRijkdom Investments |
Posted - 2010.06.29 02:58:00 - [ 79]
Edited by: Jan VanRijkdom on 29/06/2010 02:59:49Edited by: Jan VanRijkdom on 29/06/2010 02:59:09 Originally by: Gavjack Bunk
Originally by: Khun SP
this would kill EVE... everyone and his dog would get 100m SP
be patient...
These would be the secret millionaires that they told you don't exist on the last page... fall in line, tow the line... get an endorsement from a ::bittervet::
Your insistence on assuming there are players concerned about millionaires waiting for their opp to take over EVE is....just plain silly Gav. It's time for some new lolmaterial, that one's getting a bit old and rather tiresome, don't you think? Maybe you missed this, so I'll point it out again, for you're enlightenment, as you obviously need it severely. Me:"The actual concern is the imbalance that would occur through people spending VARYING amounts of rl money, maybe a buck, maybe 10, maybe 100s, or thousands, whatever the pay scale, the point is, it simply will become a game of who-will-spend-the-most-monies. Nobody thinks there will instantly be an armada of n00b Titans or that only rl rich people will play the game. I'm sure there would exist many socio-economic levels of individuals plunking down dough. It will though, again, come down to 2 sets of players, those that want to play the game, but only want to spend the sub fee/very little amounts of monies in perhaps some skill buying, and those that will try to 'win' EVE by spending copious amounts of rl money. There will be a gap, but in that case, a dichotomy of a more real and severe gap than the percieved gap that exists currently because of the temporal differences in toon creation date." End Quote There you go buddy.  Now, after reading that, I should think there should be no more blathering from you about 'secret millionaires' and any other such related nonsense. K? K? Deal? K deal.  |
Amaron Ghant
Caldari
Black Thorne Corporation
Black Thorne Alliance |
Posted - 2010.06.29 11:09:00 - [ 80]
Originally by: DuKackBoon
The current system prevents grinding, it is thus fair for all players. Grinding for SP would kill EVE as it is now.
We grind for ISK instead of SP. It's still grinding. Some methods are a lot easier, and some harder, but make no mistake EVE still has grinding..... In our opinion its a better class of grinding, which is why we still play. |
Takakura Hirohito |
Posted - 2010.07.03 15:24:00 - [ 81]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Takakura Hirohito
Sorry if it has been mentioned already, but for all of you that think there is no sp grinding in EvE, you're all idiots. Really. In these same forums, check out the character bazaar. Legal isk-for-sp transactions.
It has been mentioned already, and the answer is always the same: not the same thing.Those characters have been built over time, as you point out, and are then traded; not mass-insta-spawned out of nowhere.
That doesn't matter to the buyer. There are more characters than there are players. If I want a rorqual character, there is no differnce (to me) between grinding missions and paying isk for the character using a legal character bazaar sale or paying isk for skill points. Isk-to-skill points is a bit cleaner, but from my perspective, I didn't have a Rorqual pilot, but I paid isk, and now I do. I don't care if someone else trained it or if the character was insta-spawned. It doesn't matter from my perspective. It would, however, kill character sales altogether (but create a big isk sink). I don't support direct isk-to-skillpoints transactions, but it already exists in one form. |
Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
|
Posted - 2010.07.03 15:31:00 - [ 82]
Originally by: Takakura Hirohito
That doesn't matter to the buyer.
No, but it matters to the game balance, and that is all that matters. Quote:
I don't support direct isk-to-skillpoints transactions, but it already exists in one form.
Yes, it exists as a trade — you spend ISK and someone else spends the time. Nothing actually changes in the game world. What's being proposed is a direct injection of SP out of nowhere, which makes a huge difference in the world. |
Vince Pilot |
Posted - 2010.07.03 16:50:00 - [ 83]
Edited by: Vince Pilot on 03/07/2010 16:50:39
bad idea.
I cannot express how bad that idea is. I really can't. |
Darek Castigatus
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel |
Posted - 2010.07.03 17:38:00 - [ 84]
Originally by: Paeniteo
Edited by: Paeniteo on 28/06/2010 17:15:41
Originally by: Ranger 1
Isk for skill points is a short sighted concept that is being promoted by people that have no idea why the vast majority of people play this game, and who lack the maturity to realize that if progressing in the game were that easy people would quickly lose interest and move on to other games.
We don't play EVE because it's easy and quick. We play EVE because it requires choices, sometimes difficult ones, and those choices have consequences. This includes how you decided to prioritize the way you train your character, and once that choice is made it cannot be quickly and easily undone. This very basic premise also applies to learning skills. If you want a game where you can buy your way to excellence, pick a different game.
You also really need to realize that if I start a character and spend a couple of months specializing in frigates, and you spend two days and a lot of money buying the skills necessary to fly a battleship, I will still kill you. Why? Because I have developed the personal skills to fly my chosen ship to it's maximum capacity. You, in that situation, would have no clue... die... and emo-rage-quit because you don't have a sense of personal investment and achievement in that character. All you have is frustration and the feeling that you wasted a lot of money for nothing.
Perhaps you should consider not promoting ideas that can, and would, do serious damage to the core concepts of the game.
Well said.
I like to think of a good character as a bonsai tree: it is necessary to cut branches to make something truly beautiful. You can't just go whichever way you like and expect results, there is a certain degree of dedication required; you're going to have to overcome the temptation to do everything and your reward for doing this is purpose. You become a niche part of EVE's society and now you may move on to a new path to increase your options. A bad character more resembles a tumbleweed. Overgrown too quickly, branched out in all directions, quite useless to everybody (except as kindling) and ultimately short lived. Usually the product of ADHD dabblers who then go on to rant about how crap EVE is.
EVE is in the end a role playing game. Instant gratification is not the goal - the goal is to create a believable universe which players can get immersed in and appreciate for what it is. In a believable universe, the harsh fact is that you don't just become the emperor overnight. At best you get the same opportunities as everyone else - the thing that makes a truly deep world is the different things people do with those opportunities and what place in society they ultimately take.
If SP can be bought then that whole concept flies out the window. Whatever sacrifices you made to become proficient in one field can just be bought away. Whatever choices you made to shape your character and find them a real place in EVE can be replicated at the drop of a credit card. You might kill the rich CEO of a mining corp and find the next day that half of their previously pure carebear corp is armed to the teeth and has wardecced you.
Well there goes their place in eve, your place in eve, the mercenary's place in eve, my suspension of disbelief and the integrity of the whole EVE universe.
This, this, ten thousand times this!! Hell for ages i was a tumble weed character just because i trained whatever i wanted to do at the time but now Ive had the time to fill in most of the gaps and think ive got a pretty well rounded character. Would I feel the same way if id just whipped out the credit card and bought the 23 million skill points my character has now....**** no. |
Orb Lati
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
|
Posted - 2010.07.03 21:16:00 - [ 85]
There is already a method in game for buying SP.
Use Cash to buy PLEX
Sell PLEX for ISK
Take ISK to Character Bazaar and buy a Char. |
Bryg Philomena
Don't Taze Me Bro |
Posted - 2010.07.03 21:36:00 - [ 86]
Originally by: Deganos
There is nothing wrong with buying skills, it would allow players who want to do something wich they want instead of waiting 30 days doing something they don't.
It would also generate more money for CCP wich can only be a good thing. The only bad thing is that rich players get more off a benefit off this system, wich I understand is not so good but all the other reasons are just bull**** with the smell of jealousy.
The players who don't like this will not quit EVE because off this (they will whine like it's 1996 however) But it will attract more players and more money!
I have to note tough that this buying skills system is just speculation, and I honestly think it won't be released.
But give me one good reason why it sucks except subtile jealousy arguments. IF players want to spend money on it it is their damn right to do so like it is your right to not do so.
I'd leave in a heartbeat if eve no longer took any investment. If CCP implemented this, what would happen? You'd find a bunch of people playing for a couple months then leaving as they could do everything. kthxbai. Thanks for playing. No. |
seany1212
The Scowling Men |
Posted - 2010.07.03 22:12:00 - [ 87]
Originally by: Bryg Philomena
I'd leave in a heartbeat if eve no longer took any investment.
If CCP implemented this, what would happen? You'd find a bunch of people playing for a couple months then leaving as they could do everything. kthxbai. Thanks for playing. No.
This from the moment they announce the ability to buy SP. Why do bull**** threads like this keep appearing, to the OP's who start them, train a character for 1-2 years then come back and consider posting, they're mainly posted by n00bs who cant run around in titans from the first day and want to. The best thing about this game is the skill training, it doesnt matter whether you started in 2005 or 2010, with the exception of the change in beginning bonuses, it would take the same amount of time training a titan if you were either character. Also, you would clearly get a rich/poor divide, some people have plenty of disposable income regardless of how much people say there wouldnt be one, some people spend $500+ on buying accounts outside of CCP's system so they would be more than happy to purchase SP with it i'll bet. CCP would get a high amount of cash to begin with but after a long period of time they would lose out on both subscriptions and SP buying due to what has already been said that people would buy SP to get into everyship they wanted then would quickly get bored and leave. |
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