| Author |
Topic |
AlZuma |
Posted - 2010.06.25 14:25:00 - [ 31]
Doesn't like this idea. |
lythos miralbar
The Fifth Ace
Important Internet Spaceship League |
Posted - 2010.06.25 14:48:00 - [ 32]
Personally I think there are two types of people that play eve.. there are those that just want to play a fun game and enjoy the game itself, and then there are those that want to 'win' eve.
I started playing eve many years ago and I happily pew'd through lvl 1 + lvl 2 missions gaining satisfaciton from making progress, exploring the game and finding my feet. Eve was a universe to be explored and it was full of really cool stuff. Sure as a noob there was lots I couldn't do, but there was also lots I could do.
Satisfaction came with progressing over time after putting in the work required to make isk+standings etc.
I still remember the first merlin I purchased, and it was bought with money I had made through nothing but my own hard work and cunning.
It was this starting off small and then having to work for everything that made eve so appealing. The destination is not important, it really is the journey that matters.
I did this in the knowlege that everyone else had to do the same.. that eve was fair. It didn't matter if you were a millionaire or a normal person, everyone progressed the same.
Someone who was more focused on 'winning' eve would have tried to buy skill points (if it was available) and isk and even items to get ahead.
But why???
There will always be lots of people who are bigger and richer than you with more expensive toys.
There will always be lots of things you can do and lots you can't do.
Sit back, enjoy the game, and stop trying to 'win' eve.
Yes real life money can get you ahead in eve, but that does not make it right.
Just because in certain situations real life money can get you ahead in eve (multiple accounts, buying/selling plex's etc), that doesnt mean the concept should be extended any further.
|
Borgis Lobal |
Posted - 2010.06.25 14:57:00 - [ 33]
plex for SP would be fantastic, I really don't see how it could destroy eve. If anything people would power level, find out they are crap and sell character/quit/get podded lots.
People said plex would kill eve and the game has never been stronger, it's just the fear that you wont be as good as another, or you don't have the resources to compete, suck it up, that's life and this is capitalism.
I doubt that there will be any payment for SP in any for, that would be way too awesome, what we may see, hopefully, is a skill remap.
That would own so hard. |
Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
|
Posted - 2010.06.25 15:04:00 - [ 34]
 Originally by: Borgis Lobal
plex for SP would be fantastic, I really don't see how it could destroy eve.
Choice becomes irrelevant. Variety becomes non-existent. That's about as close to "destroy" as things get, short of removing the market. |
Ranger 1
Amarr
Ranger Corp
|
Posted - 2010.06.25 15:24:00 - [ 35]
Edited by: Ranger 1 on 25/06/2010 15:30:32 Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Borgis Lobal
plex for SP would be fantastic, I really don't see how it could destroy eve.
Choice becomes irrelevant. Variety becomes non-existent. That's about as close to "destroy" as things get, short of removing the market.
This. Isk for skill points is a short sighted concept that is being promoted by people that have no idea why the vast majority of people play this game, and who lack the maturity to realize that if progressing in the game were that easy people would quickly lose interest and move on to other games. We don't play EVE because it's easy and quick. We play EVE because it requires choices, sometimes difficult ones, and those choices have consequences. This includes how you decided to prioritize the way you train your character, and once that choice is made it cannot be quickly and easily undone. This very basic premise also applies to learning skills. If you want a game where you can buy your way to excellence, pick a different game. You also really need to realize that if I start a character and spend a couple of months specializing in frigates, and you spend two days and a lot of money buying the skills necessary to fly a battleship, I will still kill you. Why? Because I have developed the personal skills to fly my chosen ship to it's maximum capacity. You, in that situation, would have no clue... die... and emo-rage-quit because you don't have a sense of personal investment and achievement in that character. All you have is frustration and the feeling that you wasted a lot of money for nothing. Perhaps you should consider not promoting ideas that can, and would, do serious damage to the core concepts of the game. |
Xiozor
THE PAROXYSM
Dark Solar Empire |
Posted - 2010.06.25 16:07:00 - [ 36]
I would thoroughly enjoy the first month or so of ganking peoples Golems and watching the ensuing BAWWHAWW that follow. But I think this is the first concept I have ever seen proposed as a change that would actually make me consider cancelling my sub if implemented.
Changes the game in far too many ways, none of them are good. |
Gavjack Bunk
Gallente
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED |
Posted - 2010.06.25 16:39:00 - [ 37]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Borgis Lobal
plex for SP would be fantastic, I really don't see how it could destroy eve.
Choice becomes irrelevant. Variety becomes non-existent. That's about as close to "destroy" as things get, short of removing the market.
So... not destroy then. You're assuming that everybody who plays eve has infinite money to plough into Eve. I'm assuming some people varying amounts of cash to plough into Eve. What gets spent on SP won't get spent PLEX. The pool of Eve will remain the same size, CCP cannot force anybody to spend money they do not have. The concept that millionaires are going to be bring eve to a homogenous grinding halt is gets fairly ridiculous the more you look at it. |
Ranger 1
Amarr
Ranger Corp
|
Posted - 2010.06.25 17:08:00 - [ 38]
Originally by: Gavjack Bunk
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Borgis Lobal
plex for SP would be fantastic, I really don't see how it could destroy eve.
Choice becomes irrelevant. Variety becomes non-existent. That's about as close to "destroy" as things get, short of removing the market.
So... not destroy then.
You're assuming that everybody who plays eve has infinite money to plough into Eve. I'm assuming some people varying amounts of cash to plough into Eve. What gets spent on SP won't get spent PLEX. The pool of Eve will remain the same size, CCP cannot force anybody to spend money they do not have.
The concept that millionaires are going to be bring eve to a homogenous grinding halt is gets fairly ridiculous the more you look at it.
No, what is ridiculous is your premise that it would take a millionaire to afford to buy enough skills to invalidate the need to put any thought into how you develop your characters. People with your mindset are better off spending their spare income on the latest newly released games, downloading all the God Mode codes, and breezing through all of the content in an afternoon. If we wanted short cuts to an "End Game" we wouldn't be playing EVE. |
Mohojo |
Posted - 2010.06.25 17:20:00 - [ 39]
I do not like this idea. It would put the rich people above the people that cannot afford SP. Also it would effectively kill the game for me. I have been in the game longer then alot of people so i should get more options i think. |
Lorieen
AQ Militis Seprentia
|
Posted - 2010.06.25 18:00:00 - [ 40]
I think they should make every thing in the game micro transactions. Heck just remove the market from inside the game and set it up outside the game. Make it so you can't buy anything from inside the game and have to go through an automated ccp site. Want a new stabber... no prob just have your CC rdy for $10. Want to buy some trit for building an outpost? Easy just grab the CC again and purchase that as well.  There is some things $$ shouldn't buy for that there is patience and enjoying the game to earn and learn your way up there. Want everything now? This game isn't for you. Think this game is a grind? This game isn't for you. "Patience young grasshopper..." |
Barakkus |
Posted - 2010.06.25 18:01:00 - [ 41]
The current system is fine.
It keeps a more level playing field instead of whoever can sit online longer/grind harder having the upper hand over everyone else, including casual solo players like me. |
Pr1ncess Alia |
Posted - 2010.06.25 18:08:00 - [ 42]
what if can only learn eve makes different from mmos? |
Luru Parz
Dark Guard Corp |
Posted - 2010.06.25 18:14:00 - [ 43]
Originally by: Xiozor
But I think this is the first concept I have ever seen proposed as a change that would actually make me consider cancelling my sub if implemented.
Changes the game in far too many ways, none of them are good.
This |
Gavjack Bunk
Gallente
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED |
Posted - 2010.06.26 01:12:00 - [ 44]
Originally by: Ranger 1
No, what is ridiculous is your premise that it would take a millionaire to afford to buy enough skills to invalidate the need to put any thought into how you develop your characters.
Excuse me? This is a new one, and it's a particularly hilarious one, so if you can buy sp you no longer need to think. Ok, you're going to have to explain this. Because it makes absolutely no sense. The point is, it would take millions and millions upon millions of dollars pumped into Eve extremely quickly for anybody to even notice that something had changed. I meet hundreds of new faces every day, all they all have different abilities, and I have no idea whether they bought off ebay, character bazaar, or the normal way. And it actually does not matter, since I will never know. To make Eve unplayable there would need to be supercaps with support fleets in way too many systems and 10 maelstroms suiciding camping most hisec gates. That would take millions of dollars, which is exactly the reason why selling sp directly will not destroy eve. Quote:
People with your mindset are better off spending their spare income on the latest newly released games, downloading all the God Mode codes, and breezing through all of the content in an afternoon.
So I'm not better off doing what I want to do? The activity you suggest is absolutely nothing akin to buying sp, you just described activities that have no associated dollar cost. Yet buying sp does. Ohhhh... are you talking about legally buyin every game and gettin... right right... secret millionaire silly excuse in disguise... got ya... Until you can point to these secret eve destroying millionaires, you shouldn't talk about them. If they even existed they probably wouldn't want you mentioning them. And since they have all that time, patience and money for destroying Eve, I have no doubt they would do a proper number on you. Quote:
If we wanted short cuts to an "End Game" we wouldn't be playing EVE.
And there's the false premise. That everybody would do it, that all that wanted to can afford to, and those that do wouldn't quit the day after and remove their own "problem" (pretending they even are a problem) from the game anyway. All that is ever required is to sit calmly, and work through the scenarios. Spitting foam on the keyboard, texting your mate about "sum rtrd on da 4rums" and smacking your keyboard like a windowlicker isn't the way to reach sensible answers. Sit calmly and try to figure out, from your knowledge of the world and how it actually works on a daily basis, what the most likely scenarios are. It's not that hard if you actually try it. |
Grarr Dexx
Amarr
Kumovi
The G0dfathers |
Posted - 2010.06.26 01:25:00 - [ 45]
You just couldn't keep to F&I, now could you, Amand... I mean Gavjack. I guess one forum wasn't enough to display your horrible shortsightedness. |
Gavjack Bunk
Gallente
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED |
Posted - 2010.06.27 01:27:00 - [ 46]
Originally by: Grarr Dexx
You just couldn't keep to F&I, now could you, Amand... I mean Gavjack. I guess one forum wasn't enough to display your horrible shortsightedness.
You were defeated in public open debate and away you had to run because you could not substantiate your wild claims. You are welcome to get beaten in public open debate any time. You were not a tough opponent. Especially as you are playing "Guess the alt" spectacularly badly, an indication that your internal debate rages you, this will be easier than last time. |
Grarr Dexx
Amarr
Kumovi
The G0dfathers |
Posted - 2010.06.27 01:36:00 - [ 47]
Defeated? I don't see how you ignoring all the valid arguments in the thread means I'm defeated. |
RatKnight1
Gallente
Mahdi Followers |
Posted - 2010.06.27 02:15:00 - [ 48]
Originally by: Grarr Dexx
Defeated? I don't see how you ignoring all the valid arguments in the thread means I'm defeated.
There are no valid arguments. SP buying, either buy real money, or ISK would lead to people like me, who have played the game for like a year and a half quitting because someone with a 2 week old character has passed my level of SP. Leave the SP system alone, it is the great equalizer in eve, no matter how much ISK you have, you are always limited by your choices of SP. Rat |
Arthur Frayn
Deep Core Mining Inc.
|
Posted - 2010.06.27 02:41:00 - [ 49]
Edited by: Arthur Frayn on 27/06/2010 02:41:08
Character trading for RL cash is already the way to get free SP. Anyone remember Scius? Anyone want to see thousands of Scius clones trying to buy their way to success, failing miserably and then crying about it on the forums, day and night? Not even characters should be tradeable. Any sold char should be summarily deleted by CCP.
There is something vile about a person who has never played Eve but is wealthy in real life and thinks that if they buy a character with 50 million SP and billions of isk that they deserve any respect. Sure it's hilarious when a clueless noob buys their way in and fails at everything, but the fact remains that it still pi$$es on everyone who developed the discipline to attain their success in Eve. |
Myth Al'kar
ASCENTIS CORPORATION
Free Worlds Alliance |
Posted - 2010.06.27 03:52:00 - [ 50]
Edited by: Myth Al''kar on 27/06/2010 03:51:47
No means No, tards. |
Julienne Poirier
Gallente
Nonya Endeavours |
Posted - 2010.06.27 05:58:00 - [ 51]
then we can trade the new characters can't compete wine with poor players can't compete with rich players |
Zeba
Minmatar
Honourable East India Trading Company
|
Posted - 2010.06.27 06:22:00 - [ 52]
Jesus ****ing christ there are a ton of bored players making **** threads lately. Whats the occasion? |
Jan VanRijkdom
Gallente
Jan VanRijkdom Investments |
Posted - 2010.06.27 06:37:00 - [ 53]
Edited by: Jan VanRijkdom on 27/06/2010 06:42:19Edited by: Jan VanRijkdom on 27/06/2010 06:41:46 Originally by: Gavjack Bunk
The concept that millionaires are going to be bring eve to a homogenous grinding halt is gets fairly ridiculous the more you look at it.
 Ignorance Incarnate. You keep asserting your own ridiculous 'wild claim' that some of us think there are 'secret millionaires' just waiting to drop loads of dough into buying Sp. No. Stop. Think. Tryyy to use the smushy grey matter. The attempts at 'countering' by going to an extreme in stating we think the 'secret millionaires' will 'buy' and 'win' EVE is ludicrous. No 'Millions' to be concerned about. Um...let's see...the word...oh, yeah. Fail. The actual concern is the imbalance that would occur through people spending VARYING amounts of rl money, maybe a buck, maybe 10, maybe 100s, or thousands, whatever the pay scale, the point is, it simply will become a game of who-will-spend-the-most-monies. Nobody thinks there will instantly be an armada of n00b Titans or that only rl rich people will play the game. I'm sure there would exist many socio-economic levels of individuals plunking down dough. It will though, again, come down to 2 sets of players, those that want to play the game, but only want to spend the sub fee/very little amounts of monies in perhaps some skill buying, and those that will try to 'win' EVE by spending copious amounts of rl money. There will be a gap, but in that case, a dichotomy of a more real and severe gap than the percieved gap that exists currently because of the temporal differences in toon creation date. Ever heard of the Law Of Diminishing Returns? You should look it up. Thats a mechanic used by the current skill system that allows new players to quickly 'catch up' and become as good as the vets in many areas, and what makes it harder to progress meaningfully as an older player. I'm pretty sure CCP knew what it was doing when they insituted the current system. EVE is 7. Thats years. Not 7mo like many other grindfest/MT/Fail MMO's that have come and gone. Think about it, just for a minute. With a MT RL money skill-buying program, if as expansive as is hoped, there can be no balance enforced by CCP in game mechanics or any other means. It's pretty simple. Your ploys at clever posting are, again, laughable.  As Grarr said, you seem to be incapable of understanding when you yourself are defeated. Perhaps you don't understand the concept itself, as is obvious by your hilarious assertions of 'winning' and 'defeating' sound arguements against you. I kinda feel sorry for you. That's pretty enbarrassing.  Next? |
Jan VanRijkdom
Gallente
Jan VanRijkdom Investments |
Posted - 2010.06.27 07:11:00 - [ 54]
Edited by: Jan VanRijkdom on 27/06/2010 07:11:52
Also: CCP Wrangler: We currently don't have any plans to start selling skill points, and if we should ever start doing that we would definitely announce it where everyone could see it.
Just in case you missed it.
|
Zeba
Minmatar
Honourable East India Trading Company
|
Posted - 2010.06.27 07:11:00 - [ 55]
|
Ranger 1
Amarr
Ranger Corp
|
Posted - 2010.06.27 07:12:00 - [ 56]
Edited by: Ranger 1 on 27/06/2010 07:14:12I dunno Jan, I think it's a smoke screen. For him it's not really whether you win or lose, but how long you can troll the thread.  In before he returns with a highly detailed rebuttal that addresses none of your points but simultaneously declares victory in each part. |
Jan VanRijkdom
Gallente
Jan VanRijkdom Investments |
Posted - 2010.06.27 07:18:00 - [ 57]
Originally by: Ranger 1
Edited by: Ranger 1 on 27/06/2010 07:14:12
I dunno Jan, I think it's a smoke screen.
For him it's not really whether you win or lose, but how long you can troll the thread.
In before he returns with a highly detailed rebuttal that addresses none of your points but simultaneously declares victory in each part.
Haha Too True. Bring on the pseudo-rebuttles!!!!!11!eleven |
Lost Troll
Lethal Dosage.
Violent Society |
Posted - 2010.06.27 07:27:00 - [ 58]
Originally by: Widemouth Deepthroat
what if can only buy sp from ccp?
What if I could buy a Natural Selection skill that would allow me to act as an agent that could rid EVE of such slow and un-smart people? Also remember, every one gets to sit in the back seat when there riding on the short buss to Tardsvill!  |
jk scowling
Sane Industries Inc.
Initiative Mercenaries |
Posted - 2010.06.27 10:10:00 - [ 59]
Originally by: Chaos Incarnate
*numbers pulled fresh from my buttocks, but they're probably close enough
I only get number 2's out of my buttocks, but that's another story. |
Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative. |
Posted - 2010.06.27 10:24:00 - [ 60]
Edited by: Malcanis on 27/06/2010 10:24:11 Originally by: The Cleansing
Any player starting today is hanger bound for at least a month before they can do anything even remotely constructive that is not tantamount to wasting time.
If I saw you saying this in-game, I would report you for griefing. Any player foolish enough to follow this idiotic advice will have the same number of SP as a new player that undocks and starts playing, but vastly less ISK, game knowledge, PVP experience, assets, standings, contacts and friends, all of which are also important. You are worse than the canbaiters who hang outside newb stations - at least players might potentially learn something from them. You dont even have that threadbare justification - you're just boring new players out of the game. Get out. |
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