Posted - 2010.06.28 13:38:00 - [122]

 

Originally by: Zill

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hell I have gotten 3 mates to play this year an none of them lasted the full 2 weeks, because of the grind an slowmo progress that we all did.

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They didn't last because they confused skill training with "progress" — if I were to guess, I'd say it's because that's how it's measured in other games… which unfortunately have no bearing on EVE.

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What about The Bazzar ? people trade accounts daily, or even buy them through plex sales.

I guess we need to stop that, because it allows newbe players an "unfair" leg up.

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As has been pointed out many many many times over: not the same thing. The character bazaar is like item trading; buying SP is like item duping. This should also explain why it's a bad idea.

Posted - 2010.06.28 13:51:00 - [124]

 

I tend to think buying on bazzar is exactly same. What happens when a newbe buying a Titan account off eBay "Severance" then that newbe goes joyriding in an 90 B isk warship, only to lose it because he has no clue.

Ok, now same newbe comes into game an gets a trial account, then activates it an buys 100 mil sp.... The very first day he crosses boarder hes a dead man an we all know it.

Now if you let said newbe spend 50$ or whatever to gain 20 mil sp, he isn't effecting the game, but what he is doing is suddenly, hes able to gain access to the rest of the game (0.0) or even lowsec if hes stupid :)

It's a two edged sword, on one side he doesn't have the experience to do some things, (you learn fast) in EvE.

On other hand he is able now to fill ranks with new blood an liven up game.

What would happen if more people heard of this, ?? They would be more inclined to stick around.

Posted - 2010.06.29 02:52:00 - [126]

 

Edited by: Jan VanRijkdom on 29/06/2010 02:57:19

Originally by: Gavjack Bunk

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Edited by: Gavjack Bunk on 27/06/2010 20:51:46

Originally by: Trader20

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The majority of Eve players support this idea. Ignore the haters, they are vocal (whiners) but they are the minority. Stick with the players that actaully help you pay bills and ignore the ones that don't.

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What is a hater?

So far, anybody in support of SP purchase has so far had to endure, bitter name calling where they have nothing to offer, irrational declarations of victory based on nothing at all, real life physical violence threats which CCP will not deal with on their own forums and an unending abuse from people who cannot string together a single rational conversation.

So tell me, what is a hater?

Is a hater a person who can perfectly hold his own without resorting to the kind of foul nonsense they are subjected to? Is that what it is to hate?

So we're clear, I don't hate maintaining the bittervet status quo and never advancing Eve into new exciting area, I don't hate it. I don't hate the people who support it, nor do I hate the people who love to use the word hater without actually realising what hatred is, but I am very interested in hearing what a hater is.

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Ahh, Gav, I feel left out of my turn to have my post broken down piecemeal and snarkedly commented on by you. Cmon!

Ohhh wait....

I guess it's hard to do that when you get PWND!!!1eleven in the forums.

Linking my response only gives others another opportunity to see that.

You've given me no direct response.

You are though continuing to assert your correctness by telling all that oppose you they are 'bitter' and other assorted unfounded nonsense. Because you are not agreed with, others are...bitter? Um, Suuure.

You continue to ignore my irrefutable logic.

Don't get mad though. Counter my arguements, if you have any counters.

Your silence only confirms you in fact do not.

I know you must feel bad about it and everything, but to save face I'd suggest you at least come up with SOMEthing.

Right???

Posted - 2010.06.29 09:08:00 - [128]

 

Originally by: Jan VanRijkdom

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Edited by: Jan VanRijkdom on 29/06/2010 02:57:19

Originally by: Gavjack Bunk

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Edited by: Gavjack Bunk on 27/06/2010 20:51:46

Originally by: Trader20

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The majority of Eve players support this idea. Ignore the haters, they are vocal (whiners) but they are the minority. Stick with the players that actaully help you pay bills and ignore the ones that don't.

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What is a hater?

So far, anybody in support of SP purchase has so far had to endure, bitter name calling where they have nothing to offer, irrational declarations of victory based on nothing at all, real life physical violence threats which CCP will not deal with on their own forums and an unending abuse from people who cannot string together a single rational conversation.

So tell me, what is a hater?

Is a hater a person who can perfectly hold his own without resorting to the kind of foul nonsense they are subjected to? Is that what it is to hate?

So we're clear, I don't hate maintaining the bittervet status quo and never advancing Eve into new exciting area, I don't hate it. I don't hate the people who support it, nor do I hate the people who love to use the word hater without actually realising what hatred is, but I am very interested in hearing what a hater is.

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Ahh, Gav, I feel left out of my turn to have my post broken down piecemeal and snarkedly commented on by you. Cmon!

Ohhh wait....

I guess it's hard to do that when you get PWND!!!1eleven in the forums.

Linking my response only gives others another opportunity to see that.

You've given me no direct response.

You are though continuing to assert your correctness by telling all that oppose you they are 'bitter' and other assorted unfounded nonsense. Because you are not agreed with, others are...bitter? Um, Suuure.

You continue to ignore my irrefutable logic.

Don't get mad though. Counter my arguements, if you have any counters.

Your silence only confirms you in fact do not.

I know you must feel bad about it and everything, but to save face I'd suggest you at least come up with SOMEthing.

Right???

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You weren't replied to because your tone is a disgrace, you added nothing new and your appeal for a reply shows you're an attention seeker. This is all the attention you get until you sort yourself out.

Posted - 2010.06.29 09:27:00 - [130]

 

Originally by: Deviana Sevidon

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And your inability to accept any kind of criticsm is a disgrace to anyone who educated you. It also disgraces you, but I guess that you went beyond the point of even noticing that. This is also the third thread that goes down in flames, with the majority of players taking a firm stance against your suggestion. If that does not deliver the message into your skull, then probably nothing will.

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Since nobody has offered any reasons as to why Eve will die, I still stand above the crowd. People are offering "I will quit eve therefore Eve dies" as the new Reason Of The Week, but it's no less nonsense than everything that has come before.

Eve will be just fine. They will not. That's a significant difference.

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Oh and about attention seeking. The only attention seeker here is you, with one fail-thread after another and always ignoring all arguments that do not support you.

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I don't ignore them, I shoot them down and move on. Getting offered the same insubstantiated nonsense over and over doesn't make a substantiated nonsense in the end. It will simply never make sense to keep repeating it.

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A final word Jan VanRijkdom is absolutely right.

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If you're going to pick a hero, do your research. There are better supporters of the Bitter Veteran Status Quo, and better in so much as they at least act like adults when they are being wrong, you would do well to spot the differences.

Posted - 2010.06.29 10:12:00 - [132]

 

Originally by: Deviana Sevidon

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Gavjack, you have never shot a single argument down. Not in a single one of your failing threads. You desperately tried to dodge them, which is not the same.

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Firstly, none of them are my threads. Since I don't even advocate the purchase of skillpoints it would have been a strange thread for me to start, but feel free to remember events that didn't occur, or conversations I was never part of. That's your perogative, and you have been doing it for over a week now. I would prefer you stop doing it, but your resolve is great.

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You ignored the majority of arguments and or replied that no millionaires play EVE and therefore SP purchasing will never grow out of hand.

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Again, they weren't ignored, and I never once said that no millionaires play Eve, though you are right, sp purchasing will never grow out of hand.

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I and a lot of other people told you about the negative aspects on gameplay this will have and you always replied that the argument is not valied, or that no millionaire plays EVE, or one of your classics, that the people have no right to critiscise because they are not working with CCP.

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Again, you're inventing words and calling it my classic. If you are going to call something my classic, perhaps you could take the time to get it right. I have never said anything about any millionaires anywhere. I have had it told to me that should CCP sell skillpoints, then more skillpoints will be sold than Eve can cope with. Eve is a multi million dollar pseudo-economy, to have any impact on it, one will require many millions of investment.
I have always maintained, when CCP sell sp it will have little effect on Eve. The masses have said it will kill eve. I have said there is not the money available to affect Eve, they have said there is millions of dollars available to kill Eve with.

If you want fairy tales about millionaires, don't look at me for them, I have never claimed they exist, it is those against skillpoint purchase who maintain the delusion.

And in fact, even then once you have it right, even then, you're wrong, because some of those claiming that Infinity SP will kill Eve do not even mean those words, they just mean that "If Person A has the option to spend $1 on SP, then I am quitting Eve." which is a massive distraction from their offered words "Everybody will be in capitals and everybody will get bored and quit".
This isn't just imprecise wording, it's negligent.

And you will (won't) notice I have never told anybody who claims that SP Purchase ruins Eve for them and they will quit that they are wrong. It's the most valid thing any of them ever said and Can I have their stuff?

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It is not up to you to decide if an argument is valid or not, especially not in an open forum like this.

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If people are directing nonsense specifically at me, it is very much up to me whether I accept the nonsense as truth and light.
Every point that was raised against purchasing sp has been exposed as pure fantasy, simple cases of protectionism or jealous nonsense.

Being entirely neutral on whether you can buy skillpoints or not as I am, it's entirely hilarious that the people opposed to it have been singularly incapable to explain why it would be bad, and in fact, turn absolutely mental when challenged. Those in favour of it, at least have been able to make a valid point as to why they think it might be a good idea only to be savaged, in as much as a wet sponge can savage, by the rabid masses who don't even know why they are against it.

They're just so driven by some sort of strange sycophantic syndrome they're not prepared to look at what would happen, they're only prepared to restate that which was incorrectly stated in the first place.

Posted - 2010.06.29 10:46:00 - [134]

 

Originally by: Karak Terrel

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Originally by: Gavjack Bunk

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Nobody has yet managed to come up with anything that they can quantify and justify beyond "Just no".

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So, after 127823672 threads (prob more) you still have no idea why most of the old Player think it is a bad idea?

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No, I have lots of ideas, but I'm not reacting to my ideas, I'm reacting to other people's words.

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Gaining SP over time is a basic concept of this game.

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Having your character and ingame abilities based on when you discovered the game is a basic concept of the game, unless you have a few thousand dollars free to buy a character from a game veteran, in which case they are fully in favour of you buying the character, unsurprisingly.

Caution This is not a disgreement, it's an expansion of your basic concept.

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And yes, you noobs have to play the game to the same rules old players did and still do! You are nothing! You are poor little newbies that have to work their way up to become a good capsular! You have to mine in cruisers! You have to play salvage monkeys for our mission runners! You have to fly frigates and play the tackler role in fleets! And you have to die in gatecamps and loose the one ship you have with all the stuff you own!

If you not already stoped reading you may think: "Oh this dump old players, so much whining because of *mil SP we want to buy. We just wana close up with the SP"

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Well, that clears it up nicely.
It's this way, because it is, and always has been.
Perfect. Thanks for that. Excellent reasoning.

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We are not whining, what we try to say is: STFU and go back to your destroyer, there are wreks waiting for you!

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Abbreviating Shut The **** Up does not make you sound grown up, you still come across as a child like edition of Bill O'Reilly, complete with lack of rational prowess.

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And stop suggesting how to improve this game if you have simply no idea how it works!

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I didn't suggest anything of the sort. I suggest that a lot of the nonsense touted as reasons for never developing a concept is a bit weak and not the result of careful thinking.

Posted - 2010.06.29 11:03:00 - [136]

 

Originally by: Tippia

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Originally by: Gavjack Bunk

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No, I have lots of ideas

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Where did you get them from?

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Well I didn't get them from the vast majority of childish spit throwing on these forums. Most of the ideas I have are the result of reading a huge amount of background knowledge and then something happens that science doesn't understand, the spark of life perhaps, and ideas appear.

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So how come you've only ever seen variants of "no", when plenty of other reasons have been presented?

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Each one has been exposed for what it is. They just keep getting repeated. I'm not going to repeat myself whenever somebody else repeats the same nonsense. I repeat myself often enough as it is.
It's a shame really, as they could be spending their time typing up actually good reasons against it, but they prefer to copypasta the first thing their favourite veteran posted, which he posted lazily because he though his authority was enough to carry it.

Posted - 2010.06.29 11:06:00 - [138]

 

Edited by: Tippia on 29/06/2010 11:09:01

Originally by: Gavjack Bunk

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Well I didn't get them from the vast majority of childish spit throwing on these forums.

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So again, then: you have no idea why people think it's a bad idea — after all, you didn't get it from them (and you'd have to since they're the ones who have the idea to begin with).

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Each one has been exposed for what it is.

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And what is that? And please, don't drag out your millionaire strawman again.

Posted - 2010.06.29 12:13:00 - [140]

 

Edited by: Gavjack Bunk on 29/06/2010 12:19:31

Originally by: Tippia

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Originally by: Gavjack Bunk

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Well I didn't get them from the vast majority of childish spit throwing on these forums.

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So again, then: you have no idea why people think it's a bad idea — after all, you didn't get it from them (and you'd have to since they're the ones who have the idea to begin with).

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Each one has been exposed for what it is.

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And what is that? And please, don't drag out your millionaire strawman again.

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I did not get it from them != I did not get it from childish spit throwing. If I respond to your incorrect supposition, I will have been successfully diverted away from what I said, to defend myself against what I did not say. I have spent a lot time typing this to people. They should learn to understand, if I am expected to defend myself against words I did not say, all they will read is me saying that I will not put up defense against things I did not say.

And the millionaire strawman is not my concept, it comes entirely from the imprecise nature of the rabid anti posters. I explained this earlier:

Originally by: Gavjack Bunk

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And in fact, even then once you have it right, even then, you're wrong, because some of those claiming that Infinity SP will kill Eve do not even mean those words, they just mean that "If Person A has the option to spend $1 on SP, then I am quitting Eve." which is a massive distraction from their offered words "Everybody will be in capitals and everybody will get bored and quit".
This isn't just imprecise wording, it's negligent.

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Perhaps saying it again will cause it to get read. I'm not hopeful.

While people are expecting their imprecise and often wholly wrong choice of words to convey a message they do not understand at all, let alone understand the intricacy off, we're always going to end up in these situations.

Rest assured, I am absolutely convinced that their are no millionaires bent on destroying Eve, as I have stated many many many times, yet it still goes unread so woefully often.

At some point, somebody is going to stop putting words in my mouth. One person actually already did, it was quite a revelation, I was very pleased. Sadly they decided to play "Guess the alt" and the whole value of the exchange was lost. That was very sad. Still crumplecorn inadvertently mentioned an extremely obvious reason, not jealous excuse, why buying sp without other key changes made at the same time would have an adverse effect on Eve, so there is hope yet that at some point a rational sane reason may come out.

Until then let's stick with "NO BECUZ I AD TO WAIT TWO YEARS SO U DO 2 ITS FUN F FUN FUNDAMNT ,.. :( PART OF EVE U DONT GET IT NOOB" because it's quite hilarious.

Posted - 2010.06.29 12:41:00 - [142]

 

as long as you cant issue solid fact to such claims it would be nice that you stay silent
CCP has not and ever will not compensate anything not sp nor equipment nor ISK that is fact always and i repeat myself always have a full skill queue cause due the unreliable CCP Staff that are not willing to change anything cause they had years to do so last update is hilarious for what reason do you put planetary interaction I tell you to waste isk and training time in the PI or can anyone say you earn ISK from that if so post them here so far Tyranis has been the biggest waste in Eve History instead of doing some major improvements to ships or weapons well nothing happened instead CCP finds it amusing to take down the server as they please for worthless updates that makes matters just worse the Dev of CCP should finally come up with a stable Server routine or otherwise go to school and learn IT properly since the event of the last week shown their are either unable to do their job right or those responsible are to incompetent to do the task that left to the so called downtime in the first place

Posted - 2010.06.29 13:04:00 - [144]

 

Originally by: GoGo Rens

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The reason games like WoW suck so much is because everybody ends up same level with same gear doing same thing, allowing the purchase of sp would create the same situation in eve. which would intern make it suck like wow.

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Yeah, wow sucks they are doing it all wrong. The 12M ******s paying/playing the game just don't know it!

The wow hater attitude is getting so old, wow does have alot of good elements which can be used in other games without breaking the game play. One of the reasons wow has become such a huge success is because you can take anyone of you friends and help them to max. level in 1-2 months and from there play alot of the content together. That really don't work all that well in eve, selling sp may not be the right thing to do, but that does not mean there is not room for improvement.

Posted - 2010.06.29 13:22:00 - [146]

 

Edited by: Phosphorus Palladium on 29/06/2010 13:24:16

This is a silly topic and here I am posting in it...

On (silly) topic:
You already can buy SPs by buying a char in the appropriate section of these forums.
Also you can already buy isk using plexes.

So, as it is right now, a complete nOOb can buy as much isk as he desires and then buy a 20, 50 or 100 mil SP char with it and all the ships, mods or whatever...

IMHO in a game RL money should be as irrelevant as possible,
so even the current situation is already pushing the limits of fair-play in this game.

Nuff said.

Posted - 2010.06.29 15:33:00 - [148]

 

Originally by: dexington

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Yeah, wow sucks they are doing it all wrong. The 12M ******s paying/playing the game just don't know it!

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The problem with WOW is not the game, it's the people, the ~11M whining kids. In EVE we are lucky, cause the kids are only whining in the forum. If they do that IN the game you pod them and local is quiet again. Try that in WOW.

Posted - 2010.06.29 15:50:00 - [150]

 

Originally by: Carebear Claire

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I too feel like trolling the forums.

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I declare this to be a new meme