| Author |
Topic |
James Rehnold
Amarr
Expense Solutions
|
Posted - 2010.06.26 15:43:00 - [ 91]
Perhaps give players the choice of trading skill points with each other? That way no skill points enter the game, and the balance is maintained. |
dexington
Caldari
Baconoration |
Posted - 2010.06.26 15:44:00 - [ 92]
 Originally by: Darthion Illys
Unless you put a limit on it.
Say... you can only purchase SP up to having 20 mil SP on your character.
Seems strange to put a limit on the buying of skill points, the only reason to sell skill points would be to make money. If they wanted to give new players an easy time, they could extend the +100% training speed to 20M SP, and give it away for free. |
Ranger 1
Amarr
Ranger Corp
|
Posted - 2010.06.26 15:48:00 - [ 93]
Edited by: Ranger 1 on 26/06/2010 15:55:17 Originally by: Darthion Illys
Originally by: jagoff
what newbs don't realize is if they allow you to buy skills, all the pilots that you are trying to catch up to will just buy the same amount of skills that you are buying, thus never closing the gap. it's pointless.
Unless you put a limit on it.
Say... you can only purchase SP up to having 20 mil SP on your character.
That would allow new guys to have the option of purchasing their way into an SP level where they actually stand a chance against those characters that have 3x times as much SP anyway, and a ton more experience. While still removing the potential of having these IRL "millionares" going out, purchasing 100 mil SP off the bat.
Old players rarely see just how shafted new players get in this game, due to the over time accumilated SP gain.
SP could easily be sold, just as ISK, in such a way that it would give new players enough of a boost (granted they would be willing to spend hundreds of euros/dollars for it), without causing any form of apocalypse.
No my friend, old players see things of this nature very clearly indeed considering they were all beginning characters at one point in time or another. Do you think veteran players come from some magical happy place fully aged?  One other thing older players see is how much faster and easier it is to skill up in EVE than it used to be, as well as how much easier it is to accumulate wealth as a new player now. So respect your elders, we've spent a great deal of time and effort making sure you young folks have an easier time of it than we had. If we are going to have learning skills at least we made sure you had an advanced set of them to speed your training along (if you were going to stick long term. Lowering minimum skill requirements to get into better ships and equipment more quickly, and countless other things. However, we are NOT going to let you have whatever you want handed to you on a silver platter. Now hand me that cane and run down to the store and pick me up my lottery tickets youngster.  |
Spurty
Caldari
V0LTA
VOLTA Corp |
Posted - 2010.06.26 15:55:00 - [ 94]
Originally by: dexington
Originally by: Darthion Illys
Unless you put a limit on it.
Say... you can only purchase SP up to having 20 mil SP on your character.
Seems strange to put a limit on the buying of skill points, the only reason to sell skill points would be to make money. If they wanted to give new players an easy time, they could extend the +100% training speed to 20M SP, and give it away for free.
This sounds like it wont upset the loyal customers that have been paying to play for the last 'n' years and have more than 20mill SP. I'd like to see the ability to buy 'x2' skillpoints trained over 24 hours or something, so people that need to just 'finish' off a skill quick, can get it over with. I'm saying this because in Empire, I have 1 clone with implants (+5s) which never undocks. I have 4 PVP jump clones (2 in empire, 2 in 0.0) that have no implants (perhaps a 5mill hard wiring to help fit some ships). If I am on the last 24hours of a 45 day long skill while in my +5s, jumping to any other clone shoots the end date up 3~5 days. Not that I 'really' care that much, clone insurance starting to get more expensive than some of the ships I fly even without implants. But still, I'm not against people buying skill points. It doesn't translate into 'skill' or 'experience' at the end of the day. Once you have level 5 Frigate trained, you're as good as any other player stat wise in that ship. What you can't buy, is what is important in this game. |
Ebon Grendel |
Posted - 2010.06.26 16:31:00 - [ 95]
I've never liked the idea of any kind of RMT, Item malls or microtransactions in any MMO.
Even buying, selling and trading of PLEX doesn't really agree with me, so when it comes to buying SP, I would just have to say NO.
But, I do think that new players should be able to "catch up" a little bit, say like having the 100% training bonus extended to 10, 15 or 20 million SP, as others have mentioned..
Many other MMO's have done this, Eve, on the other hand has shyed away from it, I think mainly because CCP tends to listen to the vocal minority on the forums too much...
|
Ranger 1
Amarr
Ranger Corp
|
Posted - 2010.06.26 16:33:00 - [ 96]
Originally by: Gavjack Bunk
Originally by: Ranger 1
I do not look like an idiot, and nobody has made me look an idiot. Still nobody has managed to answer the basic questions regarding CCP selling SP directly, all they have managed to do is spout the same jealous nonsense over and over.
"No, because I didn't get this when I played"
"No, because it will destroy eve" (They mean for them, not actually destroy)
"No, because secret millionaires plot to destroy Eve for everybody"
"No, because it's different. I don't like different."
"No, and if I have to explain why then they don't "get" Eve". (You're right then, I don't get it, help me get it, oh no... you've gone already, shocker)
"No, because I don't want somebody with more money than me beating me while I am busy buying PLEX with Isk because I'm poor" (lol, like Eve is supposed to be the single place on earth where this does not happen)
And so on. Nobody has yet managed to come up with anything that they can quantify and justify beyond "Just no".
Lets put this little trolls arguments into perspective shall we.
Isk for skill points is a short sighted concept that is being promoted by people that have no idea why the vast majority of people play this game, and who lack the maturity to realize that if progressing in the game were that easy people would quickly lose interest and move on to other games.
We don't play EVE because it's easy and quick.
We play EVE because it requires choices, sometimes difficult ones, and those choices have consequences. This includes how you decided to prioritize the way you train your character, and once that choice is made it cannot be quickly and easily undone. This very basic premise is at the very core of this games design.
If you want a game where you can buy your way to excellence, pick a different game.
You also really need to realize that if I start a character and spend a couple of months specializing in frigates, and you spend two days and a lot of money buying the skills necessary to fly a battleship, I will still kill you.
Why?
Because I have developed the personal skills to fly my chosen ship to it's maximum capacity. You, in that situation, would have no clue... die... and emo-rage-quit because you don't have a sense of personal investment and achievement in that character. All you have is frustration and the feeling that you wasted a lot of money for nothing.
You haven't come up with sound reasons for a change of this nature. Instead you have fled from thread to thread after the laughter ensued hoping for more support in the next one you have trolled. Your questions have been answered factually and accurately, and your argument has been to play word games and stick your fingers in your ears and sing lalalalala.
As far as your points go, in order:
There have been many changes made that allowed new players quicker advancement. However these were intelligently thought out and didn't break the core principals of the game.
Yes, SP purchase would destroy EVE. The examples of decent games people rapidly lost interest in because their Dev team listened to people like you and dumbed the game down and made progression too easy are too numerous to mention. Lets pick SWG as the most glaring example.
Your "secret millionaire" argument has always been your ridiculous concept. On an individual basis it wouldn't take much money spent at all to ruin the game.
Most of us are fine with "different", we are not fine with breathtakingly stupid.
We can't help it if you don't understand how short sighted your suggestions are, nor are we going to lose any sleep over it.
We really can't stop people with more money than sense from gaining an advantage in EVE (as is the case in many games), but we can limit it by not making it mind numbingly easy to do so. This is why EVE has succeeded while so many other games have not.
So far the only point in your favor is that reading your blather is mildly amusing. Carry on.
|
Gavjack Bunk
Gallente
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED |
Posted - 2010.06.27 00:59:00 - [ 97]
Originally by: Celeste Coeval
Originally by: Gavjack Bunk
Nobody has yet managed to come up with anything that they can quantify and justify beyond "Just no".
Actually there have been maybe 50 people stating reasons, but you being a bitter-young-noob seem to have not learnt to read and have some of the most amazing skills in side stepping I have ever seen (did you bother to train them or just buy them?). Must be tough being killed all the time or out-competed when you are a bitter-young-noob. You are an irritating character and tbh you guarantee with every-single-post-you make that people will listen to what you have to say less and less.
GL with the bitterness!
I've been begging for reasons. So far.. "We gave you reasons" is the number one response. Even though no reasons based in truth were offered, just reasons based in blind jealous, if the crowd ever wants to stop it, that would be swell. |
Gavjack Bunk
Gallente
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED |
Posted - 2010.06.27 01:15:00 - [ 98]
Originally by: Ranger 1
Lets put this little trolls arguments into perspective shall we.
Yes that would be nice, but consirdering it's you, I am not hopeful. Quote:
Isk for skill points is a short sighted concept that is being promoted by people that have no idea why the vast majority of people play this game
Supposition, appeal to authority. Great. You're really going places now. Quote:
and who lack the maturity to realize that if progressing in the game were that easy people would quickly lose interest and move on to other games
And moving swiftly into personal insult. Excellent. So if you're going to lose the sp buyer through their maturity (pretending you're correct) there is Still No Problem, because the very people you hate won't be sticking around, but still you're very angry... ok.. let's have some more logical fallacies and argumentative weakness from you... Quote:
We don't play EVE because it's easy and quick.
Logical fallacy that buying sp is easy and quick. kk. Next? Quote:
We play EVE because it requires choices, sometimes difficult ones, and those choices have consequences. This includes how you decided to prioritize the way you train your character, and once that choice is made it cannot be quickly and easily undone. This very basic premise is at the very core of this games design.
Once that choice is made it can be quickly undone by selling your character and buying another. There are no hard choices or tough consequences in eve. None. Quote:
If you want a game where you can buy your way to excellence, pick a different game.
I'm already playing Eve. If I was one of the secret millionaires you're so scared off, I would have emptied your precious character bazaar by now. Oh dear we just realized that there are characters for sale, ergo no millionaires. Shame. Quote:
You also really need to realize that if I start a character and spend a couple of months specializing in frigates, and you spend two days and a lot of money buying the skills ne blah blah chest beating nonsense...
You won't have the DPS to beat my tank. Do not mistake somebody being rich for being so stupid they cannot learn a whole lot faster than most people. And if you so convinced you win every time no matter what opponent did, when you so scared? Quote:
You haven't come up with sound reasons for a change of this nature. Instead you have fled from thread to thread after the laughter ensued hoping for more support in the next one you have trolled.
I visit every old thread I can find. I am as yet unbeaten in all of them. Nobody has ever asked for a reason as to why I think it's a sound reason. I've never even advocated it, I just laugh at the scared people spouting nonsense in response to somebody else asking for it. If you actually did read all the things I'd typed, you would even know that. Sadly... you just read what you want to. Quote:
Your questions have been answered factually and accurately, and your argument has been to play word games and stick your fingers in your ears and sing lalalalala.
Some people have given very good reasons, and all have so far completely fallen apart when you examine what they failed to consider. The weakness of debate of those who oppose me is not my choice, but it is my advantage. |
Gavjack Bunk
Gallente
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED |
Posted - 2010.06.27 01:24:00 - [ 99]
Originally by: Ranger 1
There have been many changes made that allowed new players quicker advancement. However these were intelligently thought out and didn't break the core principals of the game.
And neither would buying skillpoints, and certainly no more than CCP's taking over of the ISK selling blackmarket. Also, can you think of a "new player quick advancement" idea that CCP removed because it wasn't intelligently thought out? Deal with it. Originally by: Ranger 1
Yes, SP purchase would destroy EVE.
Oh do tell us how... Originally by: Ranger 1
The examples of decent games people rapidly lost interest in because their Dev team listened to people like you and dumbed the game down and made progression too easy are too numerous to mention. Lets pick SWG as the most glaring example.
I couldn't tell you who they listened to, if we're again bringing examples of other products into the argument for no particular reason, maybe you'd like to think of other examples where the Dev teams didn't do what was required and update outmoded concepts? Not that doing so would add any validity to this particular argument. Quote:
Your "secret millionaire" argument has always been your ridiculous concept.
No it is not. It is the concept of the people who claim eve days when "EVERYBODY" is flying EVERYWHERE in CAPITALS. And those are their words, not mine. Quote:
On an individual basis it wouldn't take much money spent at all to ruin the game.
You know when somebody quits eve and everybody says "Can I have your stuff?" Yeah, that moment, right there, every silly sod who says "bawww I iz going if ceeceepee dooooes dat"... I'll take their stuff, no trouble at all. Quote:
Most of us are fine with "different", we are not fine with breathtakingly stupid.
I don't know, most of you seem perfectly fine with it. Quote:
We can't help it if you don't understand how short sighted your suggestions are, nor are we going to lose any sleep over it.
Apparently you are.... Quote:
We really can't stop people with more money than sense from gaining an advantage in EVE (as is the case in many games), but we can limit it by not making it mind numbingly easy to do so. This is why EVE has succeeded while so many other games have not.
Yes I saw CCP really taking a stance and sticking it to the rich man when they took over the ISK black market and made it legal with all the money ending up in CCP's pocket. Yes, I really saw them try to stop people with more money than sense from gaining an advantage in Eve. Yes, that's what I saw. Actually it's not. I saw the opposite. |
Trader20 |
Posted - 2010.06.27 02:47:00 - [ 100]
The majority of Eve players support this idea. Ignore the haters, they are vocal (whiners) but they are the minority. Stick with the players that actaully help you pay bills and ignore the ones that don't. |
Arthur Frayn
Deep Core Mining Inc.
|
Posted - 2010.06.27 03:49:00 - [ 101]
Originally by: Gavjack Bunk
Yes I saw CCP really taking a stance and sticking it to the rich man when they took over the ISK black market and made it legal with all the money ending up in CCP's pocket. Yes, I really saw them try to stop people with more money than sense from gaining an advantage in Eve. Yes, that's what I saw.
Actually it's not. I saw the opposite.
You may already understand this, but the purpose of selling plexes were not to stop rich people buying isk. They were to stop people from using the game to make real life cash by selling isk. Eve is owned by CCP. Someone else using CCP's property to make money for themselves is a violation of property rights. If you owned a strip of land and someone built a shop on your land in order to make money without paying you for the right to do so, then you are well within your rights to have them arrested and their assets removed from your land. As for selling SP, my objection is this: It is contrary to the intended purpose of a game, even a mmo, to allow people to buy their way into the endgame. The purpose of a traditional videogame is to enjoy it from start to finish, to start off small and get better at it until you reach the top. You beat the final boss, etc. It would be ridiculous to spend real cash on a videogame you already own to unlock all the best ingame items and skills, whatever, so you can skip to the final boss battle at the end, because you didn't develop the gaming skill to be ready for the endgame. Plus the game experience would be very short. To me, a game is about the journey to the end that makes it fun, not the end itself. With a mmo, there is the potential for no endgame, no final boss or challenge, and you can keep playing and having fun for as long as the game is running. But you still lose a lot of what makes the mmo fun if you buy your way to success. The way SP gain works now, it forces you to start small and work your way up. It encourages you to develop the discipline to learn the game and forge a path to your own success. If you could buy SP, then I think you lose the sense of achievement, and you have less chance of developing social ties with other players which is a cornerstone that makes this game so much fun. So without feeling like you've accomplished anything or made friends along the way, sharing the good and bad times, I think you'd be less inclined to play the game for the long haul. Eve thrives on long term customers who have all embarked on their own 'adventure' of sorts. I think making SP buyable cuts the heart and soul out of this game because it cuts deep the people who have achieved success for themselves within the game. Ever heard the old cliche: "nothing worth having or doing ever comes easy"? Success in Eve is not easy. Making it easy might end up making it worthless. |
Induc
Amarr |
Posted - 2010.06.27 04:13:00 - [ 102]
Edited by: Induc on 27/06/2010 04:45:44(Just jumping into this thread, can't bother reading all four pages...) The reason it would break the game is the same reason cheating breaks any other game. Eve, like most MMORPG's are about progression. That it takes time and effort to get somewhere. For example, a titan wouldn't be a titan if it didn't take years of training and lots of isk to fly one. I know Eve is hard to get into for new players, but allowing you to buy SP for cash is not the answer to that problem. Also, you can argue that it's wrong that time is the only thing really determining how much SP you got, giving old players a never ending advantage simply because they subscribed to the game before you. Still, buying SP for cash is not the answer to that problem either. So Gavjack, what exactly is it that you want? Is it buying progression with RL cash, or is it that you want SP progression to be determined by something else/more than just time? oh and edit, couldn't have said it better myself: Originally by: Arthur Frayn
I think making SP buyable cuts the heart and soul out of this game because it cuts deep the people who have achieved success for themselves within the game. Ever heard the old cliche: "nothing worth having or doing ever comes easy"? Success in Eve is not easy. Making it easy might end up making it worthless.
|
Ranger 1
Amarr
Ranger Corp
|
Posted - 2010.06.27 04:26:00 - [ 103]
Induc, if you read what he wrote closely it quickly becomes apparent the only thing he wants is... attention. Every response he makes really has little or nothing to do with what is being discussed... but he goes to great lengths to appear intelligent when he says it.  I'll have to grudgingly give him a 8/10 for style. To bad thus far there has been no substance. |
Nalesh
ASYOULIKE corp
|
Posted - 2010.06.27 04:44:00 - [ 104]
I don't want to buy SP, but a way like the annual thing where you can move around your attribute points, but for SP instead, not all of it of course, like a % of your total SP, that would balance it for everyone. |
MadMuppet
Minmatar |
Posted - 2010.06.27 05:03:00 - [ 105]
I see two real problems with the whole buying SP issue that, in quickly scanning this thread, have not been mentioned.
1. It breaks a mechanic in the game that permits a player to have any sort of clue the age of the other pilot. Without some sort of other mechanic a 3-day old toon could have 2 years of SP behind him.
2. It feeds the 'cheaters' ability to build up RMT toons. Make account, log in, buy SP, buy Hulk, mine (or buy SP, buy BS, belt rat) collect loot, buy plex to keep account live and sell remaining isk via RMT trasnfers. Continue until an Unholy Rage 2,3,4... rinse repeat. CCP gets money, th RMT get money, the players see their material and ratting availability base nose-dive.
Now then, perhaps a better option might be to sell a SP booster for 30 days that will allow a player to earn double SP for that 30 day period. The game NavyField did a similar deal with their levelling system. It allows a player to pay in more (you double pay the account and you double earn SP without them getting 'insta-leet' overnight. with the cap being that you cannot run more than one booster per account. These could then be sold on the market like PLEXs.
The end game is this though, no matter what they do or don't do, people will complain.
-MadMuppet |
Jan VanRijkdom
Gallente
Jan VanRijkdom Investments |
Posted - 2010.06.27 06:05:00 - [ 106]
Edited by: Jan VanRijkdom on 27/06/2010 06:10:50Edited by: Jan VanRijkdom on 27/06/2010 06:08:46Edited by: Jan VanRijkdom on 27/06/2010 06:07:49Edited by: Jan VanRijkdom on 27/06/2010 06:06:19 Originally by: Gavjack Bunk
LOLSpam
Spam much? Wow Gavjack, you are a riot. Almost as bad as Shar Te-well, you know, in the complete prick/bitter/douchebag/humourless/Refusues-to-admit-when-rebuttled-nicely categories lol. You seem to have a hard time reading, the reasons for no MicroTrans are spelled out for you in many and various ways. <----That way. I will not indulge you in a cascade of quotes. Youre an adult, (I'm assuming), look for yourself. You say you graduated at 15? *pats on back* So I'm assuming you know how to read. Ive been reading since 3 or 4 yrs of age, sooooo I'm pretty good at it, and I've read lots of rather embarrasing smackdowns on your attempts at clever posting. To counter with my own bit of douchebaggery, I'm a...let's just say I won't embarass you with my IQ. I graduated very early myself. It's pretty apparent I, and many others, are on a decidedly higher plane of intelligence than you, and I know there are people on a higher one than me. Just don't interject claims of intelligence/diplomas/etc in this area, baaad idea, mmkay? You will always get shown up. That one's for free.  I think you may just be an attention w***e. Were you not hugged as a child? Or maybe you have just have a superiority complex. You tell me. I will give you a +1 on trolling tho, very entertaining, made me laugh. And stare with mouth agape at the preposterousness of your assertions of credibility and correctness. Go ahead and stop while you're behind. Thaaanks. I will merely state my concurrence with the statements of my peers on the foolishness of Microtransactions in the EVE universe. I thought that would be blatantly obvious, but alas, we have to immerse ourselves in handholding and baby-talk to those who do not yet understand. I have full confidence in CCP to not allow that heresy. I'm sure they are having a laugh at all this as well. |
TriIIian |
Posted - 2010.06.27 07:16:00 - [ 107]
Buying SP is the worst idea I have ever heard on the forums. There would be no point in even having skills. Just make it $100 to buy Eve and you start with every skill maxed.
If this ever happened I would be leave Eve in a second. The years I have put into Eve would mean nothing, nothing at all. Skill points would mean nothing. Having a high SP player would mean nothing.
You would lose more players then you gain. And the players you gain wouldnt stay for 5 minutes because theres nothing to look forward to. You wont be thinking about that nice Carrier you can fly in 8 months you will have already bought it, flown it, thrown it in a hanger and moved on to another game.
Same with adding more double SP time. Bad idea, What about that player who has just spent 18 months in game getting his SP to 20 million and then a new player comes along and can do it in 9 months.
Theres only one thing that is fair for everyone and makes new players learn quicker. Give everyone back their SP for learning skills and give everyone maxed learning. But thats another thread! |
Zeba
Minmatar
Honourable East India Trading Company
|
Posted - 2010.06.27 07:21:00 - [ 108]
|
Jan VanRijkdom
Gallente
Jan VanRijkdom Investments |
Posted - 2010.06.27 07:27:00 - [ 109]
Edited by: Jan VanRijkdom on 27/06/2010 07:28:23 Originally by: TriIIian
Buying SP is the worst idea I have ever heard on the forums. There would be no point in even having skills. Just make it $100 to buy Eve and you start with every skill maxed.
If this ever happened I would be leave Eve in a second. The years I have put into Eve would mean nothing, nothing at all. Skill points would mean nothing. Having a high SP player would mean nothing.
You would lose more players then you gain. And the players you gain wouldnt stay for 5 minutes because theres nothing to look forward to. You wont be thinking about that nice Carrier you can fly in 8 months you will have already bought it, flown it, thrown it in a hanger and moved on to another game.
Same with adding more double SP time. Bad idea, What about that player who has just spent 18 months in game getting his SP to 20 million and then a new player comes along and can do it in 9 months.
Theres only one thing that is fair for everyone and makes new players learn quicker. Give everyone back their SP for learning skills and give everyone maxed learning. But thats another thread!
Very true. Analogous to the kid that gets every toy they want bought for them, only to not appreciate it and want something else very soon after, vs saving or earning it somehow. They appreciate it a lot more. Not to say every rl 'rich' person is spoiled or spoils others/their kids etc. Even for 'Grown-Ups', when you work hard to earn something, you appreciate it. When gratification is instant, it loses its luster. Greed begets greed, when someone gets to a point, so often they just want more. So if MT/SP buying were implemented, the ones calling for it would get bored soon after, the older players would leave, and THEN we could accurately say EVE would be dying. BTW I'm not some superpwnage SP level toon, I have approx 25.6M Theres still a great many things I cannot currently do. Ive been around since '07, but have been on and off at times. So I'm not the highlevel SP'er speaking down from on high basking in n00b jealousy. would I like to have more SP? Sure. Through any other means than the current system, espec MT/RL Money purchase? Never. |
Celeste Coeval
The Gosimer and Scarab
|
Posted - 2010.06.27 18:06:00 - [ 110]
I too wish I could be a selective reader and ignore valid posts in favour of my egocentric and personal beliefs, maybe then i'd be a successful bitternoob and be fighting for my right to bring eve to equilibrium, thus ending the learning curve with RL isk. Gavjack, sorry but you fail at economics and game design, please be a bitternoob elsewhere. The further towards the flattening of the curve, the more likely one is to become bored and play something else. |
Spurty
Caldari
V0LTA
VOLTA Corp |
Posted - 2010.06.27 18:40:00 - [ 111]
Anyone Just paying to level in this game is quite a tool,
Undock, go do something.
Spinning ships and waiting purely on skills to finish is one of the least fun thing you can do in any game.
Rl rich can / do buy characters and plexs
This concept just appears to lessen the pain of career changes.
No point made against buying sp holds water under the spot. Light. |
Gavjack Bunk
Gallente
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED |
Posted - 2010.06.27 20:45:00 - [ 112]
Edited by: Gavjack Bunk on 27/06/2010 20:51:46 Originally by: Trader20
The majority of Eve players support this idea. Ignore the haters, they are vocal (whiners) but they are the minority. Stick with the players that actaully help you pay bills and ignore the ones that don't.
What is a hater? So far, anybody in support of SP purchase has so far had to endure, bitter name calling where they have nothing to offer, irrational declarations of victory based on nothing at all, real life physical violence threats which CCP will not deal with on their own forums and an unending abuse from people who cannot string together a single rational conversation. So tell me, what is a hater? Is a hater a person who can perfectly hold his own without resorting to the kind of foul nonsense they are subjected to? Is that what it is to hate? So we're clear, I don't hate maintaining the bittervet status quo and never advancing Eve into new exciting area, I don't hate it. I don't hate the people who support it, nor do I hate the people who love to use the word hater without actually realising what hatred is, but I am very interested in hearing what a hater is. |
Ranger 1
Amarr
Ranger Corp
|
Posted - 2010.06.27 21:57:00 - [ 113]
Originally by: Gavjack Bunk
Edited by: Gavjack Bunk on 27/06/2010 20:51:46
Originally by: Trader20
The majority of Eve players support this idea. Ignore the haters, they are vocal (whiners) but they are the minority. Stick with the players that actaully help you pay bills and ignore the ones that don't.
What is a hater?
So far, anybody in support of SP purchase has so far had to endure, bitter name calling where they have nothing to offer, irrational declarations of victory based on nothing at all, real life physical violence threats which CCP will not deal with on their own forums and an unending abuse from people who cannot string together a single rational conversation.
So tell me, what is a hater?
Is a hater a person who can perfectly hold his own without resorting to the kind of foul nonsense they are subjected to? Is that what it is to hate?
So we're clear, I don't hate maintaining the bittervet status quo and never advancing Eve into new exciting area, I don't hate it. I don't hate the people who support it, nor do I hate the people who love to use the word hater without actually realising what hatred is, but I am very interested in hearing what a hater is.
Pssssst, he was supporting your argument. Now you're even trolling yourself. |
Deviana Sevidon
Gallente
Panta-Rhei
Butterfly Effect Alliance |
Posted - 2010.06.27 23:00:00 - [ 114]
Edited by: Deviana Sevidon on 27/06/2010 23:01:24
There are a lot of good arguments against it, but of course all of them are "not valid". Gavjack, from your post it seems you just need a lot of attention. Practically no one, except yourself support this idea.
As many others have said. EVE is not a game for instant gratification. If you really want something then you have both work toward a goal, select what skills to train and wait your time. Everything else like buying your ship via plex and buying the skills via other microtransaction destroys this. I personally dislike selling plex or character trade but at least their impact on the game is low, compared to what you are suggesting.
Also what will happen next? T2 BPO available via microtransaction? Expert starter packages with 20 million skillpoints 1 billion isk and +10 standing to a faction of your choice?
In the end this will ruin EVE since players who cannot afford this crap will be at a massive disadvantage. Only the rich kids will join EVE as new subscribers and they will be bored fast because the game will have no point. When you can buy everything you want, why even bother with playing the game?
The veterans will also leave since CCP devalued everything the players have earned in the past years, just to please a small minority of whiners.
No this is not an assumption, I know about people and I can tell you that giving them anything they ask for, will not have them appreciate it. Instead they become rotten spoiled and ask for more. |
Eva Darkstar |
Posted - 2010.06.27 23:16:00 - [ 115]
Edited by: Eva Darkstar on 27/06/2010 23:29:34 Originally by: Spankable Delight
I realise that CCP are only talking about giving us SP as a gift for the extended downtime but having read a few of the other threads there seems to be a lot of resistance to the idea of them ever offering skillpoints for sale and I'm curious why. I'm a relatively new player myself and am not really sure I understand why this seems to be a hot topic, beyond the "we have been playing this game longer and don't want people paying to catch up."
Thoughts?
Seems to me the only possible reason people do not want sp being sold is the catch up reason. After all people always like to keep any advantage they have over others. Edit: Although it would spoil it for some people as the amount of sp is a kin to braging rights. Plus if you progress too quickly with your training you stand a fair chance of heading towards a god like mode when you are doing missions etc due to fast training will not increase your standing (except for those skills that effect standing). It would also give the advantage to those with plenty of real life cash to waste, just like plexes do now. I hope they don't start selling sp or if they do at least have a cap on the amount a character can buy. |
Mella Elcus |
Posted - 2010.06.27 23:27:00 - [ 116]
Originally by: Eva Darkstar
Originally by: Spankable Delight
I realise that CCP are only talking about giving us SP as a gift for the extended downtime but having read a few of the other threads there seems to be a lot of resistance to the idea of them ever offering skillpoints for sale and I'm curious why. I'm a relatively new player myself and am not really sure I understand why this seems to be a hot topic, beyond the "we have been playing this game longer and don't want people paying to catch up."
Thoughts?
Seems to me the only possible reason people do not want sp being sold is the catch up reason. After all people always like to keep any advantage they have over others.
hi troll |
Eva Darkstar |
Posted - 2010.06.27 23:32:00 - [ 117]
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Benco97
Gallente
Terraprobe Dynamics |
Posted - 2010.06.27 23:44:00 - [ 118]
I bought some "skillpoints" once many years ago from this shady guy called TomB, had a real funny face on him.
Anyway, I gave him the cash and casually walked out of the dark and dingy alley where we performed the transaction and thankfully I managed to get all the way to my ship without being seen by the authorities. On closer inspection I thought that these SP looked a little funny but I was pretty tired at the time and thought nothing more of it, opening the little bag and necking them all, washing them down with a swig of Quafe (Standard, can't afford ultra) and a couple protein delicacies.
I don't remember the next two days but I woke up without my ship, without my implants and they'd even taken my pet fedo.
I've been free of SP since then, I don't touch the stuff anymore, it messes with your mind. |
Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
|
Posted - 2010.06.27 23:47:00 - [ 119]
Originally by: Eva Darkstar
Seems to me the only possible reason people do not want sp being sold is the catch up reason. After all people always like to keep any advantage they have over others.
Really? Who's more likely to use such a feature? Old players who are already hooked and who have invested more than they want to calculate already, or new players who are just coming in and having a look around? If anything, buying SP would increase the gaps rather than let people "catch up" (as flawed as that notion is in EVE). Even a best-case scenario would only mean that the exact same gaps exist, only now they're between 80M SP newbies and 180M SP oldies. No, the reasons why people don't want this are numerous: it causes vast disparities between the "haves" and the "have-nots"; it destroys variety and chocie; it removes all sense of effort, investment and reward, and kills player retention; it destroys the progression balance that the skill system relies on; it makes interaction far less interesting… In fact, I'd even go so far as to say the opposite: there doesn't seem to be any reason why it should happen beyond some flawed notion about "catching up" that doesn't apply to this game and which somehow hinges on the mechanic magically not being used by the people you want to "catch up" to. |
Gavjack Bunk
Gallente
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED |
Posted - 2010.06.28 13:08:00 - [ 120]
Originally by: Ranger 1
Pssssst, he was supporting your argument. Now you're even trolling yourself.
pssst, I can read. psssst, I'm asking what a hater is. psssst, you seem to like trolls so much you see it everywhere. psssst, what is a hater? |
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