| Author |
Topic |
Sergei Le'Poof |
Posted - 2010.06.03 23:04:00 - [ 1]
PVP fights in Eve are very short. You spend 1-2 hours to get a fight and then it is over in 1-2 minutes. I think this is out of proportion and does not allow several strategic factors to play a role such cap stability and active tanking to just name two.
To resolve this I think an HP buff is in order here similar to what happened for titans/super-carriers/(a dps nerf would be a nightmare to balance). This HP buff is more needed the smaller the ship class is, as for example I can not comprehend how a frigate can have less ehp than a fighter/fighter bomber. It should have to be at least similar or greater. You could take that as a base and grow hp for other classes in similar proportions.
Where would this new hp should go then? To give a little twist all of the new hp should go to structure, thus rewarding the use of damage controls by sacrificing weapon or speed upgrades. This will also not necessitate balancing of shield/armour mods and rigs.
Thoughts? |
Misstress Iteron
Antares Shipyards
|
Posted - 2010.06.03 23:06:00 - [ 2]
I once spent over 30 minutes killing a battleship... |
Menkala |
Posted - 2010.06.03 23:09:00 - [ 3]
They had a HP buff a few years back, multiplied all shield armor and hull by 1.5x or something like that.
Fights in eve are short cus its pvpppp as opposed to pvp, not due to HP amounts.
|
Liang Nuren |
Posted - 2010.06.03 23:12:00 - [ 4]
I spent about 15 minutes recently killing a myrm and hurricane... seemed like a fun fight to me.
-Liang |
Sergei Le'Poof |
Posted - 2010.06.03 23:13:00 - [ 5]
 Originally by: Menkala
They had a HP buff a few years back, multiplied all shield armor and hull by 1.5x or something like that.
Fights in eve are short cus its pvpppp as opposed to pvp, not due to HP amounts.
I hear you but I as per my post, I think the problem is more evident in the cruiser/frigate hulls. Even in a 1v1 situation the fight is over in 1-2 minutes. |
Deviana Sevidon
Gallente
Panta-Rhei
Butterfly Effect Alliance |
Posted - 2010.06.03 23:15:00 - [ 6]
PvP sucks indeed because in EVE it encourages blobbing. As long as the mechanics from tanking to damage and EW that biggers numbers always win.
CCP can also not fix things, because it would alienate all the players who prefer the ganking style. So right now the situation with CCP and EVE can only be described as FUBAR and chances are high that EVE will suffer a massive loss in subscription numbers when the next generation of space based MMORPG are released. |
Sergei Le'Poof |
Posted - 2010.06.03 23:23:00 - [ 7]
Originally by: Deviana Sevidon
CCP can also not fix things, because it would alienate all the players who prefer the ganking style. So right now the situation with CCP and EVE can only be described as FUBAR and chances are high that EVE will suffer a massive loss in subscription numbers when the next generation of space based MMORPG are released.
I hope you are wrong but I fear you are right. |
Misstress Iteron
Antares Shipyards
|
Posted - 2010.06.03 23:24:00 - [ 8]
Originally by: Deviana Sevidon
PvP sucks indeed because in EVE it encourages blobbing. As long as the mechanics from tanking to damage and EW that biggers numbers always win.
CCP can also not fix things, because it would alienate all the players who prefer the ganking style. So right now the situation with CCP and EVE can only be described as FUBAR and chances are high that EVE will suffer a massive loss in subscription numbers when the next generation of space based MMORPG are released.
You mean games such as STO? |
Qolde
Minmatar
the united
Negative Ten. |
Posted - 2010.06.03 23:24:00 - [ 9]
The way it is right now is the fault of the collective mind of the eve playerbase. If more people flew Logistics, and to a lesser extent EW and Covert Ops scouting ships, then fights would last longer. Who's going to give up KM whoring to be in a logi or covops, or sacrifice their damage and HP to be in an EW ship? Not many people.
Sure they could make some mechanics that punish blobs, which would be welcome by almost everyone, but the fault lies in the players as a whole. Many people would love to have smaller gangs, but the existence of larger gangs, and larger ships to some extent necessitates corps banding together to form alliances and alliances forming coalitions. Hopefully the lag issues that Dominion+Tyrannis has introduced will cause a resurgence in small gang warfare while they hold off on fixing it until after Incarna.
|
Crumplecorn
Gallente
Eve Cluster Explorations
|
Posted - 2010.06.03 23:24:00 - [ 10]
Wouldn't a HP buff make active tanking even less relevant? And wouldn't that in turn mean cap management would be largely unaffected? And wouldn't that mean that, rather than being more interesting, fights would just take longer?
I don't know, but what we definitely need is damage mitigation like in Sins of a Solar Empire, where the more targets are actively damaging you, the tougher your ship gets.
Also these are tactical, not strategic, considerations. |
Musical Fist
Gallente
NAP Coalition
|
Posted - 2010.06.03 23:27:00 - [ 11]
Stop blobbing and go do some 1v1s flying around in an interceptor / assault frig gang killing ratters 30:1 is called roaming and not pvp for a reason you know :P |
Cpt Branko
Retired Pirate Club
|
Posted - 2010.06.03 23:29:00 - [ 12]
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 03/06/2010 23:29:01 Originally by: Sergei Le'Poof
Originally by: Menkala
They had a HP buff a few years back, multiplied all shield armor and hull by 1.5x or something like that.
Fights in eve are short cus its pvpppp as opposed to pvp, not due to HP amounts.
I hear you but I as per my post, I think the problem is more evident in the cruiser/frigate hulls. Even in a 1v1 situation the fight is over in 1-2 minutes.
The longer fights last, the more they become pvppppppppppppppp. Also, active tanking in looong fights? Yeah right, you'll do even worse then EHP fit which got boosted more and doesn't need 200 cap boosters which you will need to tank while you grind down some 500K-1M EHP monstrosity down. Originally by: Musical Fist
Stop blobbing and go do some 1v1s flying around in an interceptor / assault frig gang killing ratters 30:1 is called roaming and not pvp for a reason you know :P
Also this. |
Sergei Le'Poof |
Posted - 2010.06.03 23:39:00 - [ 13]
As a side note, a HP buff would also discourage(slightly) gate camping as ships would have enouhg hp to fly back to the gate. Only organized camps with lots of webs would work. |
Qolde
Minmatar
the united
Negative Ten. |
Posted - 2010.06.03 23:46:00 - [ 14]
Edited by: Qolde on 04/06/2010 00:00:44Hmm, how about a mini triage-esque reinforced mode for ships. Make it so it automatically activates at a specified point, kinda like the armor and shield warnings. Lasts for 1 Minute, and brings all resists up to 95%, fills cap, makes you unneutable, breaks NPC locks (ooh lowsec mission running just became possible), slows your top speed by 50%, but you can't warp away for 1 minute after it ends, nor scramble someone within this time. Of course, you can't use this on capital ships. :P It should recharge on its own after a certain amount of time and should need some little item in your cargohold to use it. Ships would still go down pretty quickly in the largest battles. Would give a gankee a chance to call for help or at least kill like 1 drone before they die. Bleh, i just made all this up right now, didn't think indepth about what it would break, but I'm sure you'll all let me know. edit: Just realized one thing it would break more than already has been done by the HP buff. Sniper tempests.  I miss the days when an alpha really meant something. The boost they gave arties in Dominion was nice, and i have been abus--... enjoying it, though it still was cooler back in the days. OT dream: There should be an module that you can modify the ROF/Alpha ratio with.  |
Hellox1 |
Posted - 2010.06.04 00:02:00 - [ 15]
If jumping to another sistem would randomly drop you somwhere on the outer ring, instead at the jumpgate exit spot, gatecamping would be solved.
|
Qolde
Minmatar
the united
Negative Ten. |
Posted - 2010.06.04 00:17:00 - [ 16]
The game needs gatecamping to some extent. There'd be no way to secure 0.0 Empires without it. The way it works kinda sucks though. In empire it's too simple to avoid it if you want to avoid it, just use a covops. Then it's impossible to make it if you don't use a covops and they do use the right ships. Not many ways to balance it and make it fair for both sides. Maybe faster lock times for ships if you're closer to them, and longer ones if you're farther away. Then adjust the spawn radius around gates to even it out. |
Aqriue
Center for Advanced Studies |
Posted - 2010.06.04 00:40:00 - [ 17]
Quote:
PVP fights in Eve are very short. You spend 1-2 hours to get a fight and then it is over in 1-2 minutes...To resolve this I think an HP buff is in order.
I would disagree. More hitpoints relates to slower killing, not interesting. EVE PVP takes to long to set up (roams, gate camps), takes to long to kill something with tens of thousands of hitpoints, and is a slow, laggy version of CounterStrike because there is no actual tactical/strategic fight between ships: lock, point, web, F1, orbit. When people flew nano-ships, their strategy was to be fast and tactically out maneuver their opponents so they were un-killable. Then CCP hit the hammer on it and double penalized MWDs with 5x sig and capacitor penalty, no more Picard Maneuver  . You can't even disable their weapon's systems like in the sci-fi movies (sensor damps, ECM, and tracking disrupters don't count  ) And other things like gatecamps/warp bubbles are dull and uninteresting. CCP needs to rethink some way to fix it so you don't need to spend spend days to make half a dozen bookmarks around every gate in every system for every constellation and region you visit, because it not only slows the action down (you need to visit all those gates to make off grid BMs, very tedious to me) but thousands of people with thousands of bookmarks have twice now caused lag issues with personal bookmarks. Why else did they get rid of deep safes to improve performance? A simple "beacon probe" using probing skills and other related stuff that lets you warp to random off grid coordinates near celesitals would be interesting, it would kill sling bubbles and gate bubbles but people already don't visit null because of them  . |
Hixxy
Caldari Provisions
|
Posted - 2010.06.04 00:40:00 - [ 18]
Originally by: Qolde
The game needs gatecamping to some extent. There'd be no way to secure 0.0 Empires without it. The way it works kinda sucks though. In empire it's too simple to avoid it if you want to avoid it, just use a covops. Then it's impossible to make it if you don't use a covops and they do use the right ships. Not many ways to balance it and make it fair for both sides. Maybe faster lock times for ships if you're closer to them, and longer ones if you're farther away. Then adjust the spawn radius around gates to even it out.
lol arnt you the technical one |
HellSpeed
Gallente
Garoun Investment Bank
|
Posted - 2010.06.04 00:41:00 - [ 19]
Originally by: Misstress Iteron
Originally by: Deviana Sevidon
PvP sucks indeed because in EVE it encourages blobbing. As long as the mechanics from tanking to damage and EW that biggers numbers always win.
CCP can also not fix things, because it would alienate all the players who prefer the ganking style. So right now the situation with CCP and EVE can only be described as FUBAR and chances are high that EVE will suffer a massive loss in subscription numbers when the next generation of space based MMORPG are released.
You mean games such as STO?
If anything, STO is a different space MMO. It's really not worth mentioning and comparing it to EVE. Deviana was probably thinking of Infinity: TQFE or JGE. |
Messoroz
AQUILA INC |
Posted - 2010.06.04 00:45:00 - [ 20]
Originally by: Sergei Le'Poof
PVP fights in Eve are very short. You spend 1-2 hours to get a fight and then it is over in 1-2 minutes.
That's what she said. |
Caia
Gallente
The Scope
|
Posted - 2010.06.04 01:13:00 - [ 21]
Eh, the problem is that there isn't much PvP. Its usually PvB (player versus blob). Bigger blob wins. |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Gallente
Sigma Special Tactics Group
|
Posted - 2010.06.04 01:17:00 - [ 22]
Originally by: Sergei Le'Poof
PVP fights in Eve are very short. You spend 1-2 hours to get a fight and then it is over in 1-2 minutes.
Thoughts?
Wear a thick rubber next time it will cut down on the feeling and you will last longer. |
Goose99 |
Posted - 2010.06.04 01:26:00 - [ 23]
Pvp sucks because carebears won't come to lowsec, so I can't blow them up to satisfy my depravity that has no outlet irl.  |
Sambo Stone
Deep Core Mining Inc.
|
Posted - 2010.06.04 01:26:00 - [ 24]
Originally by: Menkala
Fights in eve are short cus its pvpppp as opposed to pvp, not due to HP amounts.
You forgot a couple dozen p's. lol |
Diomedes Calypso
Aetolian Armada
|
Posted - 2010.06.04 02:07:00 - [ 25]
How about a new class of wormhole , that didn't need to be probed, that had a maxium size ship limit, that had "metering lights" that allowed only one ship to enter per entrance and that ship could only exit by the same entrance. Ships would get booted after 20 minutes unless agroed againts a player during that time to reset the timer I guess you could call it a "glory hole"  (fwiw its really just a randomn 1v1 sort of arena) |
Admiral Pelleon
White Shadow Imperium
|
Posted - 2010.06.04 02:45:00 - [ 26]
Post with your main OP so we can laugh at you legitimately. |
Capt Fossil
Gallente |
Posted - 2010.06.04 02:56:00 - [ 27]
This rules....almost as much as the 5 minute timer that made me forget what I had to say!
Thanks PcP
|
Killer Gandry
Caldari
Shadow of the Pain |
Posted - 2010.06.04 03:22:00 - [ 28]
People claiming EVE is a PvP game should rub their beedy little eyes a tad.
2 most common "PvP" fights are:
The Blob: This ain't PvP, this is shooting with nukes into a barrel to kill the tadpoles swimming in it.
The Gank: The PvP fitted pray on the none PvP fitted. Preferably in easy gankable ships.
Come back when you do real PvP and not the 2 above. That's scared kids stuff or wannabe boasters how l33t they are but when looking at their KB stats you see they mainly have groupkills on single or dual team targets.
The fact your 150+ gatecamp killed off 25 people passing by doesn't make you l33t. It actually makes you even more boring than a miner who sucks on a roid for hours.
|
Ivas Tiffy
Amarr |
Posted - 2010.06.04 03:33:00 - [ 29]
the longer you spend pvping the more chances thier help will arive and your ass will get ****d.!
try to learn to pick on better targets who can handle them selves instead of picking on defenceless noobs. |
Bellum Eternus
Gallente
The Scope
|
Posted - 2010.06.04 03:36:00 - [ 30]
Originally by: Sergei Le'Poof
As a side note, a HP buff would also discourage(slightly) gate camping as ships would have enouhg hp to fly back to the gate. Only organized camps with lots of webs would work.
I was going to ignore this inane and stupid thread until you posted this. Clearly you don't PVP. Just stop posting. |
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