Posted - 2010.05.30 18:44:00 - [32]

 

Originally by: Zartrader

---

Edited by: Zartrader on 30/05/2010 08:20:16



Surveys do not work well. Those that do not care won't reply, those that do will, so you get a completely biased response.

If CCP had to have long, drawn out and tedious discussions on every change nothing would get done either. Players are not known for having balanced views anyway, I'd prefer their opinions were not asked for at all. Most moans and opinions are based on self interest so they are useless.

---

That is also why many argue that it is a bad idea for CCP decision makers to be players themselves. There are quite a few allusions to vigorous arguments at CCP over game content based upon preferences for one aspect of the game or the other.

Regards,
Windjammer

Posted - 2010.05.30 19:05:00 - [34]

 

Originally by: Windjammer

---

That is also why many argue that it is a bad idea for CCP decision makers to be players themselves. There are quite a few allusions to vigorous arguments at CCP over game content based upon preferences for one aspect of the game or the other.

Regards,
Windjammer

---

First you troll a dev and drive him/her off the forums, now you say this. Who besides you argues this? Your imaginary "rational" people that agree with you? I've heard from quite a few game developers that they love their games and think that actually playing them is very important. (CCP, VALVE, Blizzard to name a few)

If you are just a troll (flagged by your double posting) then i'm very sorry for biting.

Posted - 2010.05.30 19:44:00 - [36]

 

Originally by: Terrax Norik

---

This game is not "owned" by the players. It is "owned" by the stock holders.
While it is nice that CCP takes our opinion from time to time, they are in no way obligated to. They are only "obligated" to the stockholders.

---

thats a nice capitalist troll you're eating, but the truth is, you work for your money, you trade money for this, your money has value and you're only giving it to get something, and in the end, the stockholders can take a flying leap if all the customers stop paying. then you'd see who owns who. Your dribble is exactly the kind that companies would like you to swallow because if people wised up they'd see the relationship of customer and company for what it really is, i.e. the company needs customers more than the customers need the company.

Posted - 2010.05.30 20:33:00 - [38]

 

Originally by: Ekrid

---

Originally by: Terrax Norik

---

This game is not "owned" by the players. It is "owned" by the stock holders.
While it is nice that CCP takes our opinion from time to time, they are in no way obligated to. They are only "obligated" to the stockholders.

---

thats a nice capitalist troll you're eating, but the truth is, you work for your money, you trade money for this, your money has value and you're only giving it to get something, and in the end, the stockholders can take a flying leap if all the customers stop paying. then you'd see who owns who. Your dribble is exactly the kind that companies would like you to swallow because if people wised up they'd see the relationship of customer and company for what it really is, i.e. the company needs customers more than the customers need the company.

---

Yes, customers are important.

Fortunately CCP has so far had the wisdom not to base their business model and game design decisions on the opinion of whatever ill informed jackass has the biggest mouth.

Getting customer input is great. So is using that input to explore new options, and determine if those options would be productive to furthering the overall game design and the philosophy (and business model) behind it.

But you'd better get used to sometimes the answer being "NO", or the game going in directions that you personally may not like or understand.

Posted - 2010.05.30 21:07:00 - [40]

 

Originally by: Windjammer

---

It's almost as if everyone at CCP is doing their own thing and there isn't a unifying consensus/voice.

---

I got that feeling when I saw that only one ship got an upgrade. ONE SHIP!!!
I can see one race of ships or even one class of ships...but just ONE SHIP?

Posted - 2010.05.30 21:29:00 - [42]

 

Originally by: Ranger 1

---

Fortunately CCP has so far had the wisdom not to base their business model and game design decisions on the opinion of whatever ill informed jackass has the biggest mouth.

---

its a good thing your opinion is more valid than anyone else's </sarcasm>

Posted - 2010.05.30 23:55:00 - [44]

 

Originally by: Ekrid

---

Originally by: Terrax Norik

---

This game is not "owned" by the players. It is "owned" by the stock holders.
While it is nice that CCP takes our opinion from time to time, they are in no way obligated to. They are only "obligated" to the stockholders.

---

thats a nice capitalist troll you're eating, but the truth is, you work for your money, you trade money for this, your money has value and you're only giving it to get something, and in the end, the stockholders can take a flying leap if all the customers stop paying. then you'd see who owns who. Your dribble is exactly the kind that companies would like you to swallow because if people wised up they'd see the relationship of customer and company for what it really is, i.e. the company needs customers more than the customers need the company.

---

You are exactly right and that does not go against what I said.

The management and employees are responsible to the owners. The owners care about the return on their investment over time. The owners will care about a drop in subscriptions, since that will affect their bottom line.
As long as Eve draws in more players than they are loosing at a percentage nearing the return they could make in other ventures, the owners will be happy.

Regardless of the doom and gloom on the forums, Eve is still performing fairly well. While it is good to keep up with the sentiment of those who post, dropping everything you have planned to cater to the noisiest whines on the forums would be chaos at best.
It wouldn't be long before the players figured this out, and swamped the forums with their views even more than they do now.

Anyone who has been around for a while knows these forums are almost always filled with someone being unhappy, and it always spikes just before and after expansions. Often, it is those that have the biggest beef that takes the time to post.

The Developers must balance drawing in new players along with keeping existing ones happy and bringing old ones back.

Keeping existing players happy does not mean to become slave to a highly vocal minority, especailly when these few often don't care about the big picture and are only concerned with their small piece of the pie.
Keeping everyone happy often means bringing in new things regularly, for example; new content, else players may drift elsewhere. What that should and should not be could be debated until you are blue in the face.

What this boils down to in my opinion is that the stockholders would care about the balance of those comming into the game and leaving the game overall. The Devs should care about the entire player base and not just the loudest ones on the forums.

I'm not saying that they are not taking what is being posted serious. They just need to balance it with the overall picture.
And that will never be quick enough for the players who are most up in arms in regard to something related to their tiny piece of the pie.

Posted - 2010.05.31 17:06:00 - [46]

 

Edited by: GammaDriver on 31/05/2010 17:07:01
2004 character finally chiming in.

Originally by: Super Whopper

---

Did you vote for your favourite CSM candidate?
Did you raise any issue in one of the many threads before this patch/expansion?
Did you check the test server before release of the patch?
Do you ever follow anything that happens or is discussed on the forums?

Enjoy being hit in the face by things many others knew prior to changes.

---

This is, truthfully, a load of **** and a slap in the face to the huge percentage of the player base that is over 25 and has to work for a living to support the game they used to prefer playing.

I understand that out-of-work welfare artists and communists/socialists might have more time, but for those of us who work our collective asses off every day to come home and have to figure out the politics of a game in addition to paying for it, and playing it, your reply is one of arrogance.

Truthfully, I agree with the OP. Send out a questionaire with check boxes to be automatically counted if CCP doesn't have the time to read our personal replies (and we, truthfully, don't have the time to write them).

This most recent patch has just enraged a lot of people, and I don't believe Eve Online / CCP has a clue anymore.

Look, CCP< either pay the lot of us to become Eve developers, or stop asking those of us who work and have lives to join this, vote for that, and pay attention to more politics than the extensive real-world shenanigans of our own politicians demand.

All I see in "Did you vote for your favourite CSM candidate?
Did you raise any issue in one of the many threads before this patch/expansion?
Did you check the test server before release of the patch?
Do you ever follow anything that happens or is discussed on the forums?"
is ways teenagers can take over, or be productive, in the game. CCP must be oblivious to the fact that I regularly play with alliances of men, not boys, who pay for a game to be a past-time to regular life.

Posted - 2010.06.01 20:52:00 - [48]

 

Originally by: CCP Loktofeit

---

Originally by: Nooma K'Larr

---

Originally by: Abrazzar

---

They do send out surveys. Although I have the suspicion that certain people aren't on the list of eligible candidates.

---

Hopefully that is not the case, but if so, is my money any different from the next player?

---

I've some good news for you!

One of the additions to the EVE Newsletter around the release of Dominion was our monthly survey. Each newsletter contains a link to our latest survey as well as a link to a summary of the previous month's survey. The current survey is on the Buddy program. Previous survey topics have included the CSM, CCP's image, nullsec, sovereignty and the Dominion expansion.

You can visit our Newsletter Archive page for links to the previous surveys and their respective summary reports.

- CCP Loktofeit


.

---

i <3 the dev team.

now can i have 500 mil isk? please?

Posted - 2010.06.01 20:57:00 - [50]

 

If everyone used it, loved it, and wanted it kept still, you'd see more than just a 4 page thread (most of which is the same people posting).

300,000+ subscribers, if even 10% were sad about its loss, then we'd have a thread with 3,000 people posting.

We do not. It is barely missed.

(And before you moan at me, I have severe colour-blindness - I cope)

Posted - 2010.06.01 21:20:00 - [52]

 

Originally by: Nooma K'Larr

---

Originally by: Grez

---

If everyone used it, loved it, and wanted it kept still, you'd see more than just a 4 page thread (most of which is the same people posting).

300,000+ subscribers, if even 10% were sad about its loss, then we'd have a thread with 3,000 people posting.

We do not. It is barely missed.

(And before you moan at me, I have severe colour-blindness - I cope)

---

you are assuming that all eve players participate in the forums, which is not the case.

Questionnaires on Spacebook would be ideal as no one would be able to double vote.

---

That would be the same as expecting all eve players participate on the forums. EVE Gate will take a long time to gain momentum, if it is at all to be of use for these things.

Posted - 2010.06.01 21:33:00 - [54]

 

Originally by: Ekrid

---

Originally by: Ranger 1

---

Fortunately CCP has so far had the wisdom not to base their business model and game design decisions on the opinion of whatever ill informed jackass has the biggest mouth.

---

its a good thing your opinion is more valid than anyone else's </sarcasm>

---

I never said it was.

Perhaps you should quote the whole post next time. You know, the part that says customer input is a good thing... within limits.

Of course, that would tend to make your reply look rather childish but what the heck, give putting things in context a try. You might like it.

Posted - 2010.06.01 22:28:00 - [56]

 

Edited by: Kohana Chayton on 01/06/2010 22:29:11

Originally by: Zeba

---

Originally by: Nooma K'Larr

---

you are assuming that all eve players participate in the forums, which is not the case.

---

On a day to day basis you are correct in that several devs have mentioned that the actual number of active eve players who regularly post or lurk is phenominally small and around the .005% mark of the subscriberbase. However that isn't the case for when something gets changed that a large portion of the playerbase feels should not have been changed. Then you will see the hundreds or even thousands of players piling into a thread to flame and rage which in turn gives a good indication that maybe the change was not the best. Though it usually never matters in the end as ccp just goes on and does what they want to do anyways.

---

300,000 accounts, about 5-7 percent of males, but only 0.5 percent of females, are color blind in some way or another. Figure that most gamers are most likely NOT color blind, with a much smaller percentage of gamers that are compared to the average percentage listed above.

if 5% of eve players were colorblind the number of color blind players potentially effected by this change would be aprox 1500 players (I sure hope my math is good, I suck at math). Figure of that 1500 there are several who suffer mild CB, and are not as badly effected. now figure that a percentage of them never even realized what the wide screen was or did.

Cost effective to support probably less than 1k people who actually needed and used it? versus 299,000 people who don't? Not really.

*edited to add link to data for color blindness in the population.

Posted - 2010.06.01 22:41:00 - [58]

 

Originally by: CCP Loktofeit

---

Originally by: Nooma K'Larr

---

Originally by: Abrazzar

---

They do send out surveys. Although I have the suspicion that certain people aren't on the list of eligible candidates.

---

Hopefully that is not the case, but if so, is my money any different from the next player?

---

I've some good news for you!

One of the additions to the EVE Newsletter around the release of Dominion was our monthly survey. Each newsletter contains a link to our latest survey as well as a link to a summary of the previous month's survey. The current survey is on the Buddy program. Previous survey topics have included the CSM, CCP's image, nullsec, sovereignty and the Dominion expansion.

You can visit our Newsletter Archive page for links to the previous surveys and their respective summary reports.

- CCP Loktofeit


.

---

Awesome!! THANK YOU!!

Posted - 2010.06.02 04:11:00 - [60]

 

Originally by: Ranger 1

---

But you'd better get used to sometimes the answer being "NO" AND the game going in directions that you personally may not like or understand.

---

Fixed that for you...