Posted - 2010.05.11 11:21:00 - [3]

 

i like the idea of planetville and also being able to provide valued customers with beauty and fashion accesories in my boutique in rancer lol

x

Posted - 2010.05.11 11:28:00 - [5]

 

The devs have always said they are trying to create a complete "sci-fi simulator"; planetary interaction, Incarna, and even DUST are all part of that dream. Although PvP is a huge part of EVE its only a part, you also have industrial tycoons, politicians, and many other ways to participate in the universe that are constantly being created.

Their are many different playstyles in EVE no expansion is for everyone but I for one applaud CCP for adding more sand to the "sandbox" and allowing new ways for players to interact with the universe.

Posted - 2010.05.11 11:32:00 - [7]

 

Given what I pvp in and what I end up killing I would say EVE is still a wonderfully dark and nasty place to live

Posted - 2010.05.11 11:50:00 - [9]

 

"Now with Tyrannis we have the introduction of a Farmville style minigame in which players can now deploy infrastructure that cannot be ever destroyed by other Eve players."


I stopped reading at this point, as the op clearly hasn't followed the dev blogs nor associated threads regarding Tyrannis and thus doesn't reliase that messing with other players' colonies will only not be possible in the initial iteration of Tyrannis *breaaathe*.

Son, I am disappoint.

Posted - 2010.05.11 12:26:00 - [11]

 

Originally by: Neutrino Sunset

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It looks to me very much as if the developers have decided to take Eve in a completely different direction to the one it was going in when I first subscribed. When I subscribed Eve was about PvP and combat in general, if you undocked you had to be prepared to grab your guns to defend yourself and your stuff.

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Hi there my name is neutrino sunset and to get off to a good start I'm going to forget that industrial and economic activities play a massive role in EVE and then imply that nonconsensual PvP has been removed.

Originally by: Neutrino Sunset

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Now with Tyrannis we have the introduction of a Farmville style minigame in which players can now deploy infrastructure that cannot be ever destroyed by other Eve players.

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To follow up this feat I will now make the logical leap of equating 'cannot be destroyed right now' with 'cannot be destroyed ever'. Because right now and the rest of time are more or less the same thing, right? Before you mention DUST as a counterpoint just let me...

Originally by: Neutrino Sunset

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In addition to that Incarna (which the developers have now stated isn't likely to arrive in any meaningful form until next year at the earliest) is the result of years worth of development effort intended to bring us the ability to dress up and open stores for fashion accessories. With no combat related improvements that I'm aware of even on the drawing board, let alone under development.

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...segue into a short rant about Incarna, relying on my previous false assertion that there is nothing but combat in EVE to show how the combat-free Incarna does not fit into EVE.

Originally by: Neutrino Sunset

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Without wanting to get into a discussion about whether in my view any of this is good or bad, I'd just like to ask was there a CCP lead discussion with the Eve community where the broader implications of this new direction for Eve were debated? Was any sounding of the average Eve player's opinion on all this ever taken, specifically with regard to their view on the diverting of what looks like pretty nearly all development resources to implement this change in ethos when the rest of the game has always been in such an appallingly badly maintained state? E.g ship combat (zero damage effects), UI, corp science and industry interfaces, even the map and the overview still don't work ffs... ad infinitum.

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Now I'd like to know if CCP, a business producing a product however they see fit, asked the permission of a bunch of people whose only stake in it is the leisure time it provides them before making the supposed change in direction I have illustrated with the above faulty logic and false assertions.

Originally by: Neutrino Sunset

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I don't really want to kick off any kind of discussion about this, because with the trolls present on this forum any kind of meaningful discussion isn't really possible anyway. And I'm not remotely interested in hearing about Dust this and Dust that either, Dust is of no interest to me, I'm only interested in Eve and what Eve players can do.

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I know people are going to disagree with me, and since I also know my entire rant is fundamentally flawed I don't want to discuss with those people. In particular I am aware that the mere existence of DUST directly contradicts one of my above points, so I especially don't want to hear about that.

Originally by: Neutrino Sunset

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So all I'm after is a link to the discussion where I can browse the views of the rest of the Eve population to see if it helps me better understand the thinking behind this about face in Eve's core principals.

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Now if someone could point me to a discussion doesn't exist about an event which didn't happen to alter a fundamental tenet of EVE which only existed in my head, I would be most appreciative.


- Crumplecorn Translation Services

Posted - 2010.05.11 13:03:00 - [13]

 

Sorry - I don't have a linky for you (wish I did, tbqh), but IIRC, CCP stated at different times and in different venues that their "vision" of Eve is as an entire framework for a Sci-Fi universe... That includes all the things your seeing now.

So basically, no, there has been no change of direction, per se, rather different aspects are being filled in.

Posted - 2010.05.11 13:36:00 - [15]

 

Edited by: Crumplecorn on 11/05/2010 13:36:53

Originally by: Neutrino Sunset

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I have not said or implied that industry is not (or shouldn't be) a major part of Eve.

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And yet your entire post was citations of non-combat additions as deviations from EVE's focus.

Originally by: Neutrino Sunset

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I have not said or implied that non-consensual PvP has been removed.

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Originally by: Neutrino Sunset

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When I subscribed [...] if you undocked you had to be prepared to grab your guns to defend yourself and your stuff.

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Originally by: Neutrino Sunset

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I'm not making a quantum leap from 'cannot be destroyed now' to 'cannot be destroyed ever', blah blah blah no dev has yet so much as even hinted blah blah blah The fact that you choose to make a jackass out of yourself instead suggests that you cannot refute my observation.

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Originally by: CCP Soundwave

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You cannot currently destroy other peoples structures. For now.......

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That you fall back to an ad hominem suggests that you cannot counter my point. That you did not find this yourself suggests that you are unable or unwilling to read up on a topic before complaining. That I have quoted the very hint you believe does not exist suggests that you are wrong.

Originally by: Neutrino Sunset

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I don't see how the potential future presence of Dust (is it an acronym to require capitalisation?) does anything to contradict my observation that there is not (and is not planned to be) any way for PI infrastructure to be destroyed from within Eve. Perhaps you thought I said something else, in which case please read more carefully.

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DUST will allow EVE players to destroy PI stuff by hiring DUST players. Adding in 'within EVE' now doesn't alter the folly of your original post. But, nonetheless, that can be addressed by the 'nuke from orbit' option the devs have discussed, and the suggestion that DUST will not cover all planet types (thus requiring EVE mechanics to destroy PI stuff on the non-DUST planets), and the above dev 'hint'.

Posted - 2010.05.11 14:07:00 - [17]

 

You'll have to excuse Crumplecorn, he is an extremely bitter old vet who has just recently returned to the game and his favorite activity is to be as rude and prickish as possible to anyone he disagrees with.

For some strange reason he cannot connect the very clear and obvious dots between industry and PVP... as in industry is the backbone of PVP, cause all the shiny ships and guns and ammo come from industry, and so he's 100% completely and utterly wrong in asserting that industry is not PVP related. Industry is completely tied into PVP and vice versa. Without ships exploding on a daily basis, there isn't much reason to mine and harvest materials to build more ships. It's a hand in hand process.

Incarna is 100% completely and utterly unrelated to PVP on the other hand. Until they give our avatars guns and let us run around stations shooting each other, then it is nothing more than a chick-flick side show where all the girlfriends and wives of EVE players can get together and play dress up barbie and have runway shows. As if enough people don't sit in stations all day doing nothing, lets give them a reason to never come out of the station... brilliant!

PI so far has completely indestructible structures and Crumplecorn, who has been playing long enough to know this fact but chooses to ignore it completely anyways, should know very well that CCP is absolutely horrible and atrocious about dropping some new feature in our lap and then completely ignoring it for years on end despite thousands of clamoring people asking for things to be fixed. At their typical rate of re-visitation of old content, we can expect a minimum of three years to go by before a fix is in place. (For examples you need to look no further than static 10/10 plex's which people begged CCP to fix for about 4 years, or invention which was a several year overdue fix to the T2 lottery fiasco, and Faction Warfare which seems to be completely off of their radar, or boosting low sec which is probably a give year old complaint at this point... ect ect ect)

Trying to assert that DUST somehow has a connection to PVP in EVE is really laughable. It's a twitch based first person shooter console game that isn't slated to be released on PC in the foreseeable future.. which in CCP time means never. How any of that relates to tactical based ship combat, well I'm just not making the connection at all. In my opinion DUST is nothing more at all than an attempt to get FPS console gamers familiar with the EVE setting so that when their gaming tastes mature beyond headshots, they will buy a PC and give EVE a shot. It's simply a brilliant marketing ploy that will have little or no relevance in the actual EVE universe.

Finally, the assertion that all of us who are paying our fifteen bucks a month should shut up and get out of the way of the development of the game is naive to the point of being moronic. The last time the players were forced out of the decision making process entirely SONY screwed up one of the most brilliant games of all time over night. So yes, we do get to have a say in where the game is heading and we also have the right to voice that opinion.. unless you live in Venezuela of course, and then I guess your fearless socialist dictator can come to your house and tell you that you need to change your outlook concerning EVE Online.

Posted - 2010.05.11 14:43:00 - [19]

 

Originally by: Neesa Corrinne

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You'll have to excuse Crumplecorn, he is an extremely bitter old vet who has just recently returned to the game and his favorite activity is to be as rude and prickish as possible to anyone he disagrees with.

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And that is why we love him.

Posted - 2010.05.11 18:28:00 - [21]

 

I wish some of the dinosaurs like the OP would just take a breath, step back and seriously re-think the arguments they're throwing out. You really think that Eve should never have evolved beyond what it was in say, 2005? Do you remember what the game was like back then? Did you like it better when there were less than 50k subscribers (the number Hillmar said was needed for profitability)? Was it better before deeper, more complex and more varied content was added to accommodate more players and more diverse styles of play? Don't more people joining Eve's universe equal more chances for interaction (including more opportunities for fights)?

Doing things the OP's way CCP would have never advanced Eve beyond a very small niche game (remember the "pure hardcore PVP" games that either evolved to gain more players or died when they refused to do so?) and gone out of business. Doing things CCP's way, while remaining true to their original vision, they have consistently grown each year to well over 300k subs, dev teams on 3 continents and have won numerous awards from the gaming press and community.

Eve is still about PVP interactions. It's just that not all of those interactions involve directly shooting someone in the face. CCP and most of the players realize that. OP needs to as well.

Posted - 2010.05.11 19:00:00 - [23]

 

Originally by: Anabella Rella

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I wish some of the dinosaurs like the OP would just take a breath, step back and seriously re-think the arguments they're throwing out. You really think that Eve should never have evolved beyond what it was in say, 2005? Do you remember what the game was like back then? Did you like it better when there were less than 50k subscribers (the number Hillmar said was needed for profitability)? Was it better before deeper, more complex and more varied content was added to accommodate more players and more diverse styles of play? Don't more people joining Eve's universe equal more chances for interaction (including more opportunities for fights)?

Doing things the OP's way CCP would have never advanced Eve beyond a very small niche game (remember the "pure hardcore PVP" games that either evolved to gain more players or died when they refused to do so?) and gone out of business. Doing things CCP's way, while remaining true to their original vision, they have consistently grown each year to well over 300k subs, dev teams on 3 continents and have won numerous awards from the gaming press and community.

Eve is still about PVP interactions. It's just that not all of those interactions involve directly shooting someone in the face. CCP and most of the players realize that. OP needs to as well.

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lol


hey idk **** you owe me and i'm on a colletion run tomorrow.

Posted - 2010.05.11 19:18:00 - [25]

 

Originally by: Neutrino Sunset

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I don't really want to kick off any kind of discussion about this, because with the trolls present on this forum......endless whine.

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Ummmmmm, trolls like you you mean. Fail

Posted - 2010.05.11 21:05:00 - [27]

 

Originally by: Neesa Corrinne

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It's simply a brilliant marketing ploy that will have little or no relevance in the actual EVE universe.

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You win the self-contradicting sentence award. Let me know where to send the ISK.

I assert that new Eve players are not hatched from Obelisk eggs, banner ads have diminishing returns, and there are only so many friends and relations one can drag kicking and screaming into New Eden. Why would we ever discourage efforts that bring new [players|allies|targets] into the system?

And while this isn't a direct rebuttal to your post in particular, I'll lump it in here for brevity - fear and loathing of the unwashed console FPS hordes is about as rational as fear and loathing of lowsec. You might hold your nose while passing through, but man they get **** done.

M

Posted - 2010.05.11 22:03:00 - [29]

 

Originally by: Grimpak

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Originally by: Neesa Corrinne

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You'll have to excuse Crumplecorn, he is an extremely bitter old vet who has just recently returned to the game and his favorite activity is to be as rude and prickish as possible to anyone he disagrees with.

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what? I consider the "bitter old vet" stage as a entry barrier that keeps all those thin-skinned carebears and their whinny rants out of these forums.

call him a forum cleaner

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As a bitter vet that trolls more than his fair share, I approve of this message.