Posted - 2005.05.26 06:03:00 - [152]

 

Edited by: KamiCrazy on 26/05/2005 06:21:22
I've been thinking more on theoretical ship setups for passive tanking.

Have you looked at the rattlesnakes stats?

You might want to consider what you can do with that for passive tanking. It might in fact have the capacity to surpass active tanking WITHOUT using cap killing modules.

EDIT:

Some maths

Large shield extender 2's 115 tf 330 mw at shield upgrades 5

3x large shield extenders = 4200

4200 + 8160 (rattlesnake base) = 12360

12360 * 1.25 = 15450 (skill bonus at 5)

Base shield recharge is at 1500 secs

so 15450/1500 before PDU's

with 6 PDU 2's we're reaching

20704/919

Total cost for this 6 low slots, 3 mid slots, 990mw of grid and 435tf of cpu

The cpu cost is very high, you're not going to be able to follow that with weapons + XL booster + shield amp. However you can use just large booster 2 which would just fit. Also 2 dud high slots due to insufficient CPU.

Posted - 2005.05.26 08:02:00 - [154]

 

The shield regen gain at BS levels for active tanking is so low its negligible.

Also, passive tanking don't rely on the shield regen at 50%+ levels, because shields follow a similar regeneration curve to capacitor energy it regenerates best at around 35%. So passive tanking gets better as your shields go lower until 35%, if it can't hold after that then your tanking goes to poo because regeneration rates quickly fall from 35-0.

Posted - 2005.05.26 17:59:00 - [156]

 

My battleship is at 154 hp/s on the test server as a passive shield tank. That’s 770hp’s over 5 seconds. That beats an extra large shield booster T2 which is only 600 over 5 seconds. But I do use up more slots.



“it regenerates best at around 35%. So passive tanking gets better as your shields go lower until 35%, if it can't hold after that then your tanking goes to poo because regeneration rates quickly fall from 35-0.”
The peak is at 30% not 35% and going below 30% has a low impact. You don’t start losing lots until you get under 20% and there is drastic drop at 10%. At 10% its time to start warping out and due to the high hitpoints left even at 10% you tend to have time to warp out.

Posted - 2005.05.30 08:09:00 - [158]

 

with a domi and all t2 gear u can achieve a passive tank of ~84 seconds and tank pretty much anything... of course u cant shoot back but if you can use drones...

Posted - 2005.06.02 12:25:00 - [160]

 

Originally by: Jozzer

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Question: "Is it possible to play EVE succesfully without a maths grade? "

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Im increasingly think 'no'.

Oh and *cough* BUMP!

Why isn't this extremely usefull guide a sticky yet?

Posted - 2005.06.19 06:00:00 - [162]

 

Looking for comments, suggestions, and/or improvements to my first try at the passive setup.
Heres my setup for a Ferox
5x Adv Limos Heavy Launcher.
2x Light Nuetron Blaster1.Only because I cant fit mediums yet.

2x Large Extenders
1x Kinetic Amp1
1x Thermal Amp1
1x EM Amp1

4x Shield power Relay1
This puts me at 5175 Shield Cap with Recharge time of 327.
If I understand correctly Im at approx 40 Shield Hitpoints recharge per Sec. This seems a little low compared to others Ive seen posted here... However..I started with 2Large, and 3 Medium extenders with over 6500 Shield cap and again..If I figured correctly approx 50 recharge per sec. But that left me with only 5 small blasters and 2 Light launchers for offense..Which is why I switched to the Resistance Amps gaining at least 20% less damage taken, and giving up approx 20% of my recharge, and gaining enough CPU and PG to use my Heavy Launchers...Im hoping that evens out.

I am currently in route to test this current setup as I type. I did however help a friend of mine do the Lev3 mission with the Battleship at the very end. Extravaganza I think it was called when I had the 5 Extenders with practically no offense. I was amazed at how well it worked. I tanked everything up to the very end EXCEPT for the BS :)
At times I had 5 or 6 Cruisers all shooting at me with random smaller frigs and Defensive turrets mixed in. Shields normally held between 50-80%
Anyway...Any suggestions on improvements accepted and appreciated.
And I am still fairly new to the game, only been playing a bit over a month, so I am still working on some of the skills to get into some of the T2 gear.

Thx

Posted - 2005.06.25 21:57:00 - [164]

 

I hope I didnt double post this. Had somwe technical difficulties the first try.
Anyway..I am about to build my first BS, and am trying to decide which will be the better Passive Shield Tank.
The Raven with 8Medium & 4 Low slots, or the Scorp with 6 Medium & 5 lows.
Has anyone run the #'s on these and determined a conclusion ? I browsed the thread here and didnt find an answer... So if its posted somewhere and I just missed it. Apologies in advance.

Thx

Posted - 2005.07.02 03:02:00 - [166]

 

bumpity bump cause it took me 10 mins to find this again

Posted - 2005.07.27 11:28:00 - [168]

 

“also REALLY want to see the stats that pottsey could get out of passive tanking a rattlesnake”
If someone wants to lend me one on the test server I will train the skills up to try it. I assume no one will lend me one on the live server.





“after all - what else is your caps gonna be used on?”
A little under underappreciated module call an Invulnerability Field. Most people think they are useless due to the cap drain but if you can run them they can give more resistance then using 4 normal hardeners.

My 2 dread fields give me 55% EM, 64% Thermal, 73% Kinetic, 81% Explosive. I believe that’s better then using 4 officer active hardeners that give 55% to each. I say its better not because I get more resistance but because the modules are cheaper and I get the same resistance as 4 hardeners but I only use 2 slots. Just think what happens if I use 3 or 4 slots. 4 is a little tricky to run, I can only run 3 none stop.






“y don't u use active hardeners - amplifiers really do blow”
Part of the benefits of an passive tank is a fully passive tank has 0 cap drain so is immune to Nos and Cap nautiluses Which is usefull in PvP though pointless in PvE. I tend to either go fully passive with amplifiers or the other extreme end to Invulnerability Field.

Recently I have tried playing with brute force HP regen and 0 hardeners.

Posted - 2005.07.27 11:47:00 - [170]

 

“I get 8204 shields and 560 recharge, which is 14.65 shield/s. Crap, I know.”

8204 hitpoints and 560 recharge is 36.62 HP regen. You do shield Hitpoints / shield cap *2.5 to work out peak HP regen.

Average regen over a battle is the same just replace 2.5 with 2.2 or 2.0,

Posted - 2005.07.27 12:12:00 - [172]

 

Edited by: Jacob Majestic on 27/07/2005 12:15:01
I know I've posted about passive Ferox theory here somewhere, but here's a little update for the Cold War.

Why passive Ferox?
- Lots of flexibility on high slots.
- Good numbers of mid and low slots to sustain a passive tank.
- Battlecruiser bonus (+5% shield resistance per level).

What are the problems?
- Grid
- Grid
- Grid

Your tank
First, fit your tank, since it's going to be the most intensive part of your fitting. The first thing you should fit are 2x Large Shield Extender IIs (or best-named if your skills aren't that great*). The next thing you should do is decide if you want to go with a full passive setup or a semi-passive setup.

Full Passive
Full passive setups rely solely on your shield's passive recharge for shield boosting.

+ higher boost
- boost over a limited range
- lower shield HP

For a full passive setup, fit 3 to 4 shield power relays in your low slots and 0 to 1 shield recharger IIs in your mid slots. Finish your setup with shield hardeners or PDUs as appropriate.

Semi-Passive
Semi-passive setups use a cap-stable shield booster to supplement your passive shield recharge.

- lower shield boost
+ higher shield HP
+ good boost over wider range

For a semi-passive setup, fit a Small Shield Booster II (must be T2!) in a mid slot and 4 PDUs (T2 is good here too) in your low slots. Add named shield hardeners a appropriate.**

Weapons

For your main weapons weapons, you are pretty much limited to those that are low-grid and low-cap. This means that you are restricted to M projectiles, heavy and assault launchers, and S weapons. If you are really having trouble fitting things, remember that the full passive setup is grid-limited for fitting weapons, while the semi-passive setup is CPU limited.

-fin-

* The best-named large shield extender uses significantly less CPU and grid than the T2 shield extender, meaning that if you're having fitting troubles you can always swap them out for something more palatable.

** If you are cap stable with everything running with 3 PDU2s, fit a shield power relay or a damage mod instead of another PDU2.

Originally by: DarK

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I only have shield management and that otherone at lvl4. I get 8204 shields and 560 recharge, which is 14.65 shield/s. Crap, I know. But it is enough with the resists I get, as I can just move to a distance with ABII.
The whole design of this setup is to have enough shields to tank them for a short time while I kill frigs that web and move to distance.

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First off, what Pottsey said with the calculations

Second, you should really have the cap to fit a Small Shield Booster II on that setup, which will increase your recharge by 15/s as long as you are fighting things that are hitting one of your natural resists (so you don't have to use two shield hardeners).

Posted - 2005.07.27 13:18:00 - [174]

 

Thanks for that, very helpful.

You are right about that shield booster, too bad I only just odnt have enough power. I need to upgrade my shield skills a bit. Going to test the cerb and ferox tonight, I'm really interested in this:)

Posted - 2005.07.27 14:03:00 - [176]

 

Originally by: DarK

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Thanks for that, very helpful.

You are right about that shield booster, too bad I only just odnt have enough power. I need to upgrade my shield skills a bit. Going to test the cerb and ferox tonight, I'm really interested in this:)

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Do you have the -3% grid for shield upgrades implant? It really helps for things like that

Posted - 2005.07.27 14:15:00 - [178]

 

i have the 5% one

Posted - 2005.07.27 14:33:00 - [180]

 

Edited by: Jacob Majestic on 27/07/2005 14:33:54

Originally by: benwallace

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Pottsey

gank setup > passive setup

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I think we've been over this

Originally by: Kelhund

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Thx Jacob...been toying around with passive and semi-passive setups on my Ferox for awhile...only problem is I have more skill in rails and none of the new missle skills yet hehe. I'll keep workin on it tho

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If you want to use rails, you should have enough cap and grid in the semi-passive setup to use 5x 150mm Railgun IIs and 2x Heavy Launchers or Assault Launchers.