| Author |
Topic |
ariana ailith
FreakyTech |
Posted - 2010.02.28 18:32:00 - [ 1]
I recently got into a hulk and have a simple fit going now as i skill up for a t2 fit. I'm confused about the strip miners though.
Can someone explain why t2 strip miners are worth it?
The way i see it:
A strip miner I outputs 540m3
The modulated strip miner II outputs 360m3 but can use crystals which adds another 360 = 720m3
And the deep core miner outputs a mere 250m3 without a crystal. And 500 with a crystal.
All cycles are 180s.
Why would i consider using a deep core miner if the strip miner I without crystal outputs more ? It seems that the Mod strip miner II is the better choice of all. But i fail to see why a deep core miner would exist if it's yield is so low.
Same for lasers... They have a even worse yield. But i assume they're for smaller ships.
Am i missing something here?
|
Windorian |
Posted - 2010.02.28 18:45:00 - [ 2]
First!
you only need deep core miners for morphite mioning and maybe one or two other high end rocks. they can only be mined with deep core miners. |
ariana ailith
FreakyTech |
Posted - 2010.02.28 18:51:00 - [ 3]
I see, so i'll focus on the Modulated Strip Miner II then :)
THanks! |
Wolfgang Grey
Two Brothers Mining Corp.
R.A.G.E |
Posted - 2010.02.28 18:51:00 - [ 4]
The deep core variants are used when mining Mercoxite.
As for T2 strips, i get about a 200 m3 boost over T1s with T2 crystals per cycle, and i'm only in a Retriever. So if you can use t2 crystals there is a good reason to use them. |
Ruziel
Minmatar
Twilight Military Industrial Complex |
Posted - 2010.02.28 19:13:00 - [ 5]
The "Deep Core" mining lasers/strip miners are pretty much for mining Mercoxit exclusively, for general purpose mining with a Barge or Exhumer, you want to use Modulated Strip Miner II With T1 or T2 crystals, they have an improved yield over the Strip Miner I. However, if you notice in the description of the MSMII, it cannot fit crystals for mining Mercoxit. This is where you would use the Modulated Deep Core Strip Miner II. You can also use non-Mercoxit crystals in the MDCSMII, but as you discovered, it is not as high a yield as the MSMII. Same for the mining lasers, which are for any ship that is not a Barge or Exhumner. The Miner II, and it's T1 variants cannot mine Mercoxit. For that you need the Deep Core Mining Laser I, or the T2 Modulated Deep Core Miner II, which like the MDCSMII can use Mercoxit or non-Mercoxit crystals. However, the MSCMII is the only modulated (uses crystals) T2 mining laser. |
ingenting
Garoun Investment Bank
|
Posted - 2010.02.28 22:11:00 - [ 6]
Edited by: ingenting on 28/02/2010 22:10:59
T2 strip miner gives an extra 100m3 yield with T1 crystals. 200m3 extra with T2 crystals (aprox).
They by far makes up for mining crystal costs. |
Baka Lakadaka
Gallente
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire |
Posted - 2010.03.01 00:30:00 - [ 7]
 Originally by: ingenting
Edited by: ingenting on 28/02/2010 22:10:59
T2 strip miner gives an extra 100m3 yield with T1 crystals. 200m3 extra with T2 crystals (aprox).
They by far makes up for mining crystal costs.
QFT - always use crystals. With the correct crystals loaded (especially T2) you're on a winner. Without Crystals loaded in your T2 strips, you might as well just give your ISK away (that's Baka Lakadaka - please spell it right when giving your ISK away). |
Incipus |
Posted - 2010.03.01 00:56:00 - [ 8]
t2 strip w/t1 crystal is +10% from normal strip miner.
t2 strip w/t2 crystal is +20% from normal strip miner.
Simple. |
Mara Tessidar |
Posted - 2010.03.01 01:05:00 - [ 9]
Originally by: Incipus
t2 strip w/t1 crystal is +10% from normal strip miner.
t2 strip w/t2 crystal is +20% from normal strip miner.
Simple.
You're an idiot. Simple. T1 crystals in a T2 stripminer increase its yield by 62.5%. T2 crystals in a T2 stripminer increase its yield by 75%. Apparently math is in short supply these days. Maybe Incipus should try mining that instead... |
Breaker77
Gallente
Reclamation Industries |
Posted - 2010.03.01 03:01:00 - [ 10]
Originally by: Mara Tessidar
Originally by: Incipus
t2 strip w/t1 crystal is +10% from normal strip miner.
t2 strip w/t2 crystal is +20% from normal strip miner.
Simple.
You're an idiot. Simple.
T1 crystals in a T2 stripminer increase its yield by 62.5%.
T2 crystals in a T2 stripminer increase its yield by 75%.
Apparently math is in short supply these days. Maybe Incipus should try mining that instead...
I bolded the part that your too stupid to understand. He was comparing T2 strip miners with T1 crystals to a T1 strip miner and a T2 strip miner with T2 crystals to a T1 strip miner. In EFT no skills: 1 T1 strip miner 207 per minute 1 T2 strip miner 224 per minute (almost 10%) 1 T2 strip miner 242 per minute (almost 20%) /me hands Mara Tessidar the failure at reading award. It comes with it's own "I'm a dumbass" T-shirt. |
Mara Tessidar |
Posted - 2010.03.01 03:49:00 - [ 11]
Originally by: Breaker77
Originally by: Mara Tessidar
Originally by: Incipus
t2 strip w/t1 crystal is +10% from normal strip miner.
t2 strip w/t2 crystal is +20% from normal strip miner.
Simple.
You're an idiot. Simple.
T1 crystals in a T2 stripminer increase its yield by 62.5%.
T2 crystals in a T2 stripminer increase its yield by 75%.
Apparently math is in short supply these days. Maybe Incipus should try mining that instead...
I bolded the part that your too stupid to understand.
He was comparing T2 strip miners with T1 crystals to a T1 strip miner and a T2 strip miner with T2 crystals to a T1 strip miner.
In EFT no skills:
1 T1 strip miner 207 per minute
1 T2 strip miner 224 per minute (almost 10%)
1 T2 strip miner 242 per minute (almost 20%)
/me hands Mara Tessidar the failure at reading award.
It comes with it's own "I'm a dumbass" T-shirt.
Was I telling the OP what T1 stripminers yielded compared to T2 strips? Nope. I was correcting that other moron's math about crystal yields. I think you should keep that award for yourself, by the way. I have a hunch you'll need it. |
Incipus |
Posted - 2010.03.01 04:35:00 - [ 12]
Edited by: Incipus on 01/03/2010 04:39:57 Quote:
Was I telling the OP what T1 stripminers yielded compared to T2 strips? Nope. I was correcting that other moron's math about crystal yields.
So you're just being a troll, got it. Quote:
t2 strip w/t1 crystal is +10% from normal strip miner.
t2 strip w/t2 crystal is +20% from normal strip miner.
^ This is the correct yield increase from -t1 strips-. Saying what they do to t2 strips on the surface appears useful but since they have abnormally low base yield it's actually kind of worthless, like your "correction" |
Breaker77
Gallente
Reclamation Industries |
Posted - 2010.03.01 11:25:00 - [ 13]
Originally by: Mara Tessidar
Was I telling the OP what T1 stripminers yielded compared to T2 strips? Nope. I was correcting that other moron's math about crystal yields.
Well I see you still failed to read and even try to understand what was said. Go back, reread the post you quoted, read your reply, then read my reply. His math was 100% correct. |
kloczek0 |
Posted - 2010.03.01 11:57:00 - [ 14]
Edited by: kloczek0 on 01/03/2010 13:09:33 Originally by: Baka Lakadaka
Originally by: ingenting
T2 strip miner gives an extra 100m3 yield with T1 crystals. 200m3 extra with T2 crystals (aprox).
They by far makes up for mining crystal costs.
QFT - always use crystals. With the correct crystals loaded (especially T2) you're on a winner.
Without Crystals loaded in your T2 strips, you might as well just give your ISK away (that's Baka Lakadaka - please spell it right when giving your ISK away).
Problem is that if you are going to mine using three or more Hulks under orca/rorqual boosts you have only few systems in empire where you can start mining on for example >= 100k dense veld asteroids (I know only two systems in hi sec with belts with more than 50% +10% asteroids with so huge asteroids that each can be mined for more than 3-4 cycles of strip miners). In most cases higher base yeld means that you are loosing more time on not full cycles mining. For example under Orca on lvl4 with maxed exhumers with hx-2 implant you have ~1610m3/cycle base yeld on strip miners T1 and (IIRC) ~1820m3/cycle with T2. Tipically asteroids on belts are so small that time waisted on planing moving possition and changing crystals is higher than mining with lower base yeld with T1 strip miners on mining everything what is in strip miners range. If you are mining on afk/semi afk doing something else on a while on yet another catracter T2 strip miners are IMO useless. Also crystal damage is proportional to number of on/of cycles so if you are mining on belts with smaller asteroids avarange crystals damage time is shorter and number of damaged crystals is higher per amout of mined ore. However .. IMO most importand is that you are loosing so much time for changing crystals and sometimes mining with incorrect crystals that effectively yeld after for example 1h mining is usually lower than on mining using T1 strip miners. T2 strip miners with T2 crystals are IMO the best on solo mining .. and nothing more. Even if you are solo miner in bigger group on single belt and you are mining only one type on ore (for optimize number of crystals changes) in summary you are loosing more time because amount of diffrent type ores are not equal on belts. |
Twilight Moon
Minmatar
Tague Corp
|
Posted - 2010.03.01 15:16:00 - [ 15]
Originally by: kloczek0
However .. IMO most importand is that you are loosing so much time for changing crystals and sometimes mining with incorrect crystals that effectively yeld after for example 1h mining is usually lower than on mining using T1 strip miners.
You're doing it wrong. |
Mistress Servelan
Amarr
Imperial Academy
|
Posted - 2010.03.01 18:05:00 - [ 16]
lol |
kloczek0 |
Posted - 2010.03.01 18:06:00 - [ 17]
Edited by: kloczek0 on 01/03/2010 18:09:14 Originally by: Twilight Moon
Originally by: kloczek0
However .. IMO most importand is that you are loosing so much time for changing crystals and sometimes mining with incorrect crystals that effectively yeld after for example 1h mining is usually lower than on mining using T1 strip miners.
You're doing it wrong.
One orca and three Hulks -> nine strip miners (in case rorqual you can use more Hulks). Each SM mines separated asteroid. Each stip miner is on asteroid guarantee more than 3-4 cycles. With cycle around 2 minutes you must start new ateroid in each >= 6 minutes (t2 rigged Hulk fitted for best base yeld can store in cargo mined ore for ~3.5 cycles). Try to controtrol this for around hour additiomnally changing t2 crystals without mistakes with mission runner on yet another account (for example Dominix with only drones on lvl 4 missions  ). Even if you will be using survey scanner window for target the same type of asteroids it is very easy make mistakes on end of mining belt. As well you will be loosing time on end of mining belt if some ore types will be depleted on waiting some Hulks or chanching crystals. However .. everything is possible but .. it is not funny. High risk loosing Dominix or mining using incorrect t2 crystals. In case mining asteroid using t2 SM with incorrect crystals base yeld t2 SMs is lower than on t1 and this is key point why effectiveness of t2 SMs is lower than t1 in mass mining. Doing above without t2 crystals using only t1 SMs makes this much easier and effectivelly allow focuse only on mine only all +10% asteroids  (in my case +10% asteroids are >=70% of each belt .. so effectivelly I'm mining like with additional +10% virtual implant to base yeld .. which does not exist). If it is possible I'm trying to keep all Hulks with Orca in one possitions during digging belts and I'm not using jet cans (all mined ore is stored directly in Orca corporate hangar) so I'm not loosing time on control yet another group of objects like jet cans but some belts can not be mined without move whole team. It is relativelly easy to improve this if all Hulks are chained to Orca to keep in 500m dystans. All what you need it is moving Orca (all Hulks will follow). Probably for this kind of mass mining best will be have ORE strip miners but cost of each three this type strip miners set is >=600m  Base yeld of ORE SM is the same as regular t1 but base maximum range is 17km which will allow extend this to around 26-27km under orca or 1.5km more under rorqual. Another possible impovent on make longer maximum SM range can be made by use Halo harverster set implants for each Hulk pilot which allows extend maximum t1 SM range to (IIRC) 37km under Rorqual .. which should be perfect for 99% most effective regular belts or hidden deposits in null/WH space. Everything using above methodology .. but cost of each HH set (IIRC) is around 1.5b or more  Probably using HH set can be as well best solution for minimize some side effects on mining Mercoxit using Skiff .. but for me this is stuill theory  Fill free if you have any advices how to improve above mass mining scenario (even without using in the same time yet another mission runner account ) .. |
Xessej |
Posted - 2010.03.01 18:29:00 - [ 18]
Originally by: kloczek0
Fill free if you have any advices how to improve above mass mining scenario (even without using in the same time yet another mission runner account ) ..
Don't mine in hisec. In wspace I can point all 3 t2 strips at a single roid (ABC) for hours without ever needing to switch roids. The new nullsec upgrade sites are just as dense from all reports. |
drinking12many
Minmatar
Nine Inch Ninja Corp |
Posted - 2010.03.01 21:29:00 - [ 19]
We usually coordinate on who mines what. One person does veld, another scordite etc as to prevent mining overlap sure may lose some cash but when manufacturing you need pretty much everything anyway and thats usually the goal of our gathering. |
ingenting
Garoun Investment Bank
|
Posted - 2010.03.02 11:55:00 - [ 20]
Originally by: Twilight Moon
Originally by: kloczek0
However .. IMO most importand is that you are loosing so much time for changing crystals and sometimes mining with incorrect crystals that effectively yeld after for example 1h mining is usually lower than on mining using T1 strip miners.
You're doing it wrong.
agreed, it takes 1 second to change mining crystals, and if you're stupid enough to not look wtf you're pointing each lazer at you're doing it completely wrong. |
Cipher Jones
Minmatar |
Posted - 2010.03.03 12:06:00 - [ 21]
the strippers are mine. |
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