Posted - 2010.01.03 19:51:00 - [3]

 

Originally by: fuxinos

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Vigilant is prettymuch fine, your so called diemost problem is lack of piloting skill.

If you dont know when/what to engage you should pick another ship.

I have no problems with my Vigilant and it didnt die yet cuz I know when to take it out.

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Your argument is worthless and can be applied to any ship or fitting in eve. The goal in fitting anything is to prepare it for the widest array of possible situations while retaining effectiveness. In other words, making sure you can engage lots of stuff and therefore have the most possible fun. If all you want to do is use it in zero-risk fights (ganks) than your ship and fitting are both inconsequential. I think that is terribly boring.

Posted - 2010.01.03 20:39:00 - [5]

 

Edited by: Kovorix on 03/01/2010 20:40:46

Originally by: McCreary075

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You fit is essentially how I fitted my Vigilant before the recent boost, just a cool looking expensive gankship with good maneuverability. I never undocked it, because it served no purpose other than an expensive loss. With the boost it is more than just a gankship.

What you've done is the same thing you can still do with a brutix. The webs are what make this ship worth flying.

My fit does 519 with Null and no drones, 5.3km optimal and 12km falloff, and has 44.5k EHP, and dual webs. I've traded DPS for survivability, and dual webs mean that I am actually applying my DPS, and I serve a purpose in a gang other than an expensive loss.

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No, I think you missed the point. The reason I made this fit is the falloff bonus, look at the 7.3+19km range. You can't get that with a brutix. And the Vigilant is fast enough to keep orbit above scram/webs and therefore stay out of danger. I'm saying fly it like a vagabond with more dps/tracking, not like a thorax or brutix.

I haven't actually tried this out yet, though.

Posted - 2010.01.03 21:57:00 - [7]

 

Originally by: Kovorix

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No, I think you missed the point. The reason I made this fit is the falloff bonus, look at the 7.3+19km range. You can't get that with a brutix. And the Vigilant is fast enough to keep orbit above scram/webs and therefore stay out of danger. I'm saying fly it like a vagabond with more dps/tracking, not like a thorax or brutix.

I haven't actually tried this out yet, though.

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You don't have nearly the tracking to run at 2km/sec and hit targets. A vagabond has better tracking compared to Neutron blasters with Null. I'd also imagine you'd cap out quite quickly, being unstable without the MWD is a bit dicey. The Vagabond can fit a medium neut and this helps keep its target down.

I guess the problem I have with this fit is this: If you take advantage of your range, people can escape rather easily, and if you run your MWD to keep them within your range, you'll cap out fairly quickly. If I saw a Vigilant gunning for me, I'd just burn back to the gate, and hope he can't lock me before I get enough momentum to carry me to a gate. With no web, you'd be powerless to stop people who try to run (and they'll run).

I also don't think you'll be able to kill frigates very well with this, because they'll be nigh-impossible to hit. If you get one close in, you'd have trouble hitting due to sig, he'd probably web you (or scram, either one would be bad).

Now, I'm not saying you have to be invincible against all shiptypes, but for a hull that is 300M plus, you should be able knock frigates off of you. I'm not sure you'd be able to do it easily. If I was going after you, I'd web or scram, then get your drones, orbit close in, and see who won. I'd feel good about my odds, especially in a tankier AF.

I quickly EFT'd your fit and put it against my standard Ishkur fit. Even with Cal Navy antimatter, your guns do essentially 0 dps against it under 5km. In PvP many things can happen, and while every fit has weaknesses, getting one AF in underneath 5km doesn't seem like it would be too hard to do. Lots of people fly AFs, I'd not want to take a fit out to pew pew that has little to no AF defense.

I like my fit because the webs mean no targets escape, and you control range. If a frigate comes for me, he dies. Dual webs bring him to a crawl, I can hit him now, one would probably be enough with the web strength bonus. I can kite other targets moderately well if I choose to with 5.6km optimal and 12km falloff. I can sit at 13-14km with a nearly immobile target, and wail away, and do similar damage to your fit. I also have 15k more EHP, which has major advantages, too.

Posted - 2010.01.03 22:31:00 - [9]

 

Originally by: Kovorix

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Originally by: fuxinos

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Vigilant is prettymuch fine, your so called diemost problem is lack of piloting skill.

If you dont know when/what to engage you should pick another ship.

I have no problems with my Vigilant and it didnt die yet cuz I know when to take it out.

---

Your argument is worthless and can be applied to any ship or fitting in eve. The goal in fitting anything is to prepare it for the widest array of possible situations while retaining effectiveness. In other words, making sure you can engage lots of stuff and therefore have the most possible fun. If all you want to do is use it in zero-risk fights (ganks) than your ship and fitting are both inconsequential. I think that is terribly boring.

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With a standard fit you can engage anything you want, whats your prob there?

Speedtanking your ship like this is actualy trying to fight at 0 risk and closes your targets together to ships that are slower then yours, and many are not slower thus giving u way less targets then with standard fit.

Your just telling that your fit is bad and that you clearly see every ship as solo pwnmobiles.

Vigilant isnt good at solo work, but performs very good in gangs.

Posted - 2010.01.04 00:07:00 - [11]

 

Edited by: achoura on 04/01/2010 00:18:04

Originally by: Trustworthy Joe

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also, with this range, no point in having a web

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Yes, you're right. I can think of no possible reason why anyone would want a 90% web ona blaster ship. Or any reason why someone would want a 99% web using 2.

Edit: Oh, and didn't they just buff the high damage, shield buffered nano ship knows as the cynabal. Requires almost identical skills too ^^

Posted - 2010.01.04 02:40:00 - [13]

 

I see what you're trying to do and applaud you for it.

But if you have the skills to fly a vigilant, why are you trying to turn it into a sub-par cynabal instead of just flying a cynabal? Especially considering how much cheaper a cynabal currently is...

The vigilant is now an partial answer to what is wrong with the diemost. 4 midslots so scram web mwde cap injector. The old powerful webs that made getting into blaster range so deadly before the nanonerf combined with the mwd ending effects of the scram. You even have enough speed so that even if you can't scram+web your target, you can at least make it back to the gate. The only real problem is the traditional blasterboat issue of getting the **** out of a combat when everything goes to ****. A utility high for a medium neut would've been nice, like what the cynabal got. The vigilant gets alot more damage than the cynabal so I guess thats a balanced 'trade.' And if the enemy doesn't have a web you will be able to slowboat away from them at much higher speed then they could chase.

Posted - 2010.01.04 09:34:00 - [15]

 

Edited by: Samaritan Azuma on 04/01/2010 09:38:00
you put a web on it even if you only have to keep it ccyling so if they close within its range it activates and allow you to keep your range...seems like i no brainer to me for a ship that relies on staying out of web/scram range

Posted - 2010.01.04 10:21:00 - [17]

 

fit a faction web at sit at 12/13km then with null. Even armor tanked this is going to be better than a full on passive shield kite setup.

you're going to be faster than they are unless they have two faction webs themselves.