| Author |
Topic |
LoveKebab
Caldari
LOST IDEA
C0VEN |
Posted - 2009.12.21 10:59:00 - [ 61]
 Originally by: Cpt Underpants
For those viewing at home, lets summarise the current non-logistics based bonuses for each mothership:
Amarr: Aeon
5% per level bonus to armor resists.
Caldari: Wyvern
5% per level bonus to shield resists.
Gallente: Nyx
5% per level bonus to fighter damage.
Minmatar: Hel
None
So in summary, we have 2 benefiting self defense, 1 benefiting offense and 1 benefiting defense of other ships.
true, that's the very reason why it should be changed - i cant see a single person whos willing to use his mothership bonus rr others dont get me wrong, most of moms got at least 1 rep/shield transferer and its working for them but i can hardly see hel using this bonus effectivly enough since its rarely seen to have ms with more than 1 rr mod and if i would want to actually do some remote repping i think nidhoggur will do just fine as losing it wont rly hurt this much Originally by: Cpt Underpants
I'd suggest one of the following options:
- Balance them by having 2 with the resists and 2 with damage bonus (ie: give Hel the same bonus as the Nyx
- Give the Hel a bonus to the effectivness of warfare link modules per level, thereby still providing the role of benefiting defense of other ships
- Often Minmatar ships are given a velocity or agility bonus per level, this may suit the hel but would need to be 10% per level to have much of an effect. (giving it 150m/s at level 5)
- Still remove the logistic bonus on the Hel but in exchange give it 7 low slots and 7 mid slots so it can be equally shield or armor tanked
- Give the Hel a bonus to fighter-bomber damage only of 5% per level and limit the Nyx to 5% per level only to fighters.
sorry m8 but changes u proposed are rubbish :( ill try to make it simple :) - basicly it's like this: each ms gets a bonus suitable for the faction it was built for: - wyvern got resists bonus for shields as caldari got epic shield tank (and few ships actually gettning the same bonus among caldari ships), right? - aeon got resists for armor as amarr are epic armor tankers... - nyx got dmg bonus as galente got some fetish for drones and their dmg it's true that minmatar has no real bonus atm so instead of trying to give it one of the useless bonuses from minmatar (who would want to have 150m/s at lvl5? it's not that u gonna outrun a dictor or something...) or lowers sig (it's not that ppl gonna be having trouble hitting u...) So i would propose (as before) to change the RR AMOUNT bonus for Fighters/Fighter Bombers Hitpoints for lvl. tho i know its still not the change i would want to have - u will be using fighters a lot, that's true, but it's only make hel a bit better but still doesnt get them inline with other motherships :( and getting them inline without copying other ships bonuses will be kinda hard :( |
Tradewars 2002
Tradewars2002 |
Posted - 2009.12.21 11:05:00 - [ 62]
Edited by: Tradewars 2002 on 21/12/2009 11:04:44
I support, nay, I demand that this name change stick, so people stop calling them 'moms'
|
Clinically
Gallente
ANZAC ALLIANCE
|
Posted - 2009.12.21 11:08:00 - [ 63]
Edited by: Clinically on 21/12/2009 11:09:36Thank you for re-instating the Nag's 2nd turret bonus  the Hel is a tough one, the RR bonus is a little naff. Works very nicely with Triage and the Niddy, but without a triage module its a bit lacklustre. Some kind of bonus to fighter bomber HP/dmge/speed might be nice. Perhaps nyx keeps its dmge bonus but only to fighters, whereas the Hel gets the same bonus but only to fighter bombers? |
ByFstugan
Big Shadows
Atlas Alliance |
Posted - 2009.12.21 11:08:00 - [ 64]
Edited by: ByFstugan on 21/12/2009 19:48:55 Originally by: CCP Abathur
Motherships --> Supercarriers
After careful consideration and further balancing, we will be reintroducing Supercarriers for Dominion 1.1. This will include:
• Fighter Bombers
• Hit Point boost
• Jump Range increase
• Removal of Triage usage
• Removal of Jump Clone usage
A special comment on the Hel – we realize that among these ships, the Hel’s bonus to repair might be seen as a bit ‘meh’. The other school of thought is that considering how useful remote repair is, especially when it comes to carrier combat, perhaps the Hel’s bonus is not so bad. So, what would you like to see here? Would an additional boost to the current RR bonus be welcomed? Ponies?
Hmmm, this feels like a job only half done to me, especially concidering the Hel bonus. U pulled back in this topic before dominion in order to find a more defined role for this ships, a role that didn't blend this behemots among the carriers and dreads. What I see is the exact opposite of that statement and nothing new at all - in fact it's the other way around and less of an inovative idea that fails with giving this ships a special role. Instead of removing the logistics bonus and giving it a battle-focused job U keep this crap to insure that U fail in your above mentioned intention. And to let Hel keep that bonus instead of giving it the very thought through bonus with Fighter Bomber torpedos explosion radius is very very lame. That is the bonus this ships need to not be mixed up with regular carriers. Also as Bobby Atlas said - the Fighter Bombers vulnerability versus Stelth Bombers Bombs must be looked into - there are rather many Stealth Bomb Squads today and it's not very good if they can launch a handful of bombs for no isk worth at all and kill Fighter Bombers at about a Billion per SC's pilot who got ther FB's there. I think the role of this ships should be remade to a more complete sense so that it get's a more clear role as something new. My earlier suggestion, that is a work made from others suggestions in large, is that it's made to a Flagship with fighting and leadership boost capabilities and no logistics role. Read the suggestion here: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1217073&page=61#1820(there is a short version in PART III for the lazy) EDIT: Also - to remove the triage use possibility and at the same time keep their logistics bonus, how well thought though is that? Especially concidering the Hel that even get an extra bonus to that crap and still will be far worse than even a level 1 Nidhoggur in triage. Not even if the Hel had 25% per level to Shield/Armor boost it would be close. And as a final note again - the logistics bonuses should be removed from this ships and another one added (Leadership focus imo). |
Rainus Max
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Morsus Mihi |
Posted - 2009.12.21 11:15:00 - [ 65]
Edited by: Rainus Max on 21/12/2009 11:15:14
What about the proposed fighter and ammo bays (for carriers and dreads respectively) are they still inbound or have they been dumped? |
Aunt Tom
Dark Voodoo Cult
Red Alliance |
Posted - 2009.12.21 11:16:00 - [ 66]
Edited by: Aunt Tom on 21/12/2009 11:16:45"We will not jump across the abyss. We'll walk forward in a small steps" (c) ascribed to Mao Zedong Originally by: CCP Abathur
Dreads
Naglfar: Launcher RoF bonus removed and Turret RoF bonus (5%) added.
Very good change. After the Dominion 1.0 Nagl became a "skillpoints eater" -- the only dread requiring knowledge of 3 capital weapon systems. But. may be you make the third step across the abyss? Remove 2 launcher hardpoints from Naglfar and add 1 turret hardpoint. "Its model have no place for turret?" This wasn't a problem in case of the latest change of the Typhoon for example. "How can it use a spare highslot?" Not a problem, always is possible to fit a salvager ;) Or we'll have a dread capable to fire a cyno. Thank you! |
Misaki Yuuko
Caldari |
Posted - 2009.12.21 11:21:00 - [ 67]
Edited by: Misaki Yuuko on 21/12/2009 11:27:18
Great news!
What about shield bonuses, specially gets bad with supercarriers & titans HP boost, any chance they can be set to instant bonuses? Armour tanked caps w/ slaves versus shield tankers may be also an issue that can be looked up, but the existence of invul fields (& overheat) makes it less of a problem than the above, still, look at it please.
About the Hel, I don't think the RR is so bad people, just look at what a gang of Hels could archieve with a couple of RR on each, very hard to break (can't be ecm'ed). If not, change it (or add) to a resistance/HP bonus to FB's, but I would rather like a general boost of these, as now fighters/FB are VERY vulnerable in the battlefield due to bombs/SB blobs etc. make it also possible to stock more fighetrs/FB in the bays than you can launch.
For the future, consider an auto-repair FB/fighter bay for carriers & supercarriers too (slow one though). |
Glassback
Body Count Inc.
Pandemic Legion |
Posted - 2009.12.21 11:23:00 - [ 68]
Good.
Please keep these changes this time. |
Alexis Zalman |
Posted - 2009.12.21 11:28:00 - [ 69]
Fighter bombers(and fighters in particular) need a lot more work, they cost the same as T2 frigate, are a lot smaller, but still a lot more vulnerable to smartbombs and mostly SB bombs. Countering 10 supercarriers with a squad of 8 bombers sounds pretty stupid.
What they need is t2 resists(something comparable to combat recons) and faster response, with smaller sig raius.
And Hel needs to be completely re-worked, it needs an offensive bonus to be worth flying.
And well, reducing the cost at least by 20-25% would be good, as people are expected to actually risk these ships in cap battles, current prices are too high and instead of combat ships, they stay collection prizes. |
LoveKebab
Caldari
LOST IDEA
C0VEN |
Posted - 2009.12.21 11:31:00 - [ 70]
Edited by: LoveKebab on 21/12/2009 11:33:55 Originally by: Alexis Zalman
And well, reducing the cost at least by 20-25% would be good, as people are expected to actually risk these ships in cap battles, current prices are too high and instead of combat ships, they stay collection prizes.
and what do u expect to give in exchange to ppl who bought Motherships with the old prices ?:) minerals in jita? ppl obviously didnt buy ms so they can have clone vat bay or triage so removing those doesnt hurt this much and it doesnt require price reducing other than what was taken away by removing clone vat parts (if not at all) |
Luna Negra
FinFleet
IT Alliance |
Posted - 2009.12.21 11:31:00 - [ 71]
Stamp of approval. |
holding4sum1 |
Posted - 2009.12.21 11:36:00 - [ 72]
I don't own one at the moment, but i wouldn't mind getting a nyx, BUT i would really like to be able to dock the *****....
And with the hel give it a bonus to FBombers Damage per LVL.... |
RoCkEt X
Hostile.
PURPLE HELMETED WARRIORS |
Posted - 2009.12.21 11:40:00 - [ 73]
Originally by: LoveKebab
and what do u expect to give in exchange to ppl who bought Motherships with the old prices ?:) minerals in jita?
i own multiple motherships, and i'm happy enough with the changes to be not too fussed about any compensation. (i lose about 2.5b n build cost per ship) but my ships will now have the power and influence they deserve - which is all i can ask of CCP. -rock |
The Kan
Gallente
The Circle
SOLAR WING |
Posted - 2009.12.21 11:42:00 - [ 74]
Thank you CCP Abathur. Now i can go back to my parked mommy again |
Sith LordX |
Posted - 2009.12.21 11:44:00 - [ 75]
Originally by: Clinically
Edited by: Clinically on 21/12/2009 11:09:36
Thank you for re-instating the Nag's 2nd turret bonus
the Hel is a tough one, the RR bonus is a little naff. Works very nicely with Triage and the Niddy, but without a triage module its a bit lacklustre. Some kind of bonus to fighter bomber HP/dmge/speed might be nice. Perhaps nyx keeps its dmge bonus but only to fighters, whereas the Hel gets the same bonus but only to fighter bombers?
That would be rediculess because nyx's are the most advanced drone boats in eve period. They would get the bonus to fighter bombers. The hel should get the bonus to fighters only. Gallente are the superior drone users of the game. Drone specialized race. Would make no sense on a mimn ship to give it superior drone damage over a gallente ship, its race conflicting. Amarr are all about armor tank and lasers, caldari are all about shield and missiles, gallente are all about DPS blasters and drones as a main weapon with massive drone bonuses, minmitar are all about mixed weapon platforms such as autos/drones/missiles and useing armor or shields as tank. |
Ezekiel Sulastin
Gallente
Shiva
Morsus Mihi |
Posted - 2009.12.21 11:48:00 - [ 76]
Here's the most important question - does this mean the Malleus will reclaim its rightful place on all the Dominion banners/splashscreens/etc instead of the Brutix that CCP so hastily replaced it with after the Nozhpocalypse? |
LoveKebab
Caldari
LOST IDEA
C0VEN |
Posted - 2009.12.21 11:50:00 - [ 77]
Originally by: RoCkEt X
Originally by: LoveKebab
and what do u expect to give in exchange to ppl who bought Motherships with the old prices ?:) minerals in jita?
i own multiple motherships, and i'm happy enough with the changes to be not too fussed about any compensation. (i lose about 2.5b n build cost per ship) but my ships will now have the power and influence they deserve - which is all i can ask of CCP.
-rock
well maybe u r, but im not and im pretty sure im not the only1 since the last changes were postponed due to ppl not being happy about price reduction and ccp not knowing what to do to compensate players isk loss |
Kel Arkir
Biotronics Inc.
Majesta Empire |
Posted - 2009.12.21 12:02:00 - [ 78]
Tears of joy! Finally our messiah is free again!! Question though :) Quote:
The Triage module has had its duration and fuel consumption reduced by half.
So Triage timer is 2.5minutes? Just asking since it doesnt sound too bad to me :) |
HELIC0N ONE
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation |
Posted - 2009.12.21 12:03:00 - [ 79]
Originally by: CCP Abathur
Structure Signature Radius
Most importantly, we’ve changed the signature radius on all Control Towers and POS structures. You will find that all of these numbers have been increased to a minimum signature radius of 2000 so that all capital weapons are capable of doing full damage to their intended targets.
Oh good, I'll remove these target painters I had fitted! Quote:
State Module Changes
We have added a mass multiplier to Siege Modules, Triage Modules and Industrial Cores. When these modules are activated, the mass of your ship increases exponentially, making it much harder for other ships to move or bump.
This is handy, although alot of bumping tends to happen when a fleet jumps to a cyno (and before the dreads have loaded grid or can activate siege), so it won't resolve the issue fully. Quote:
The Triage module has had its duration and fuel consumption reduced by half.
Nice Quote:
Dreads
Dreadnaughts will receive their own signature radius bump that puts them in the same range as other capital ships. We’ve also straightened up one other issue by returning the Naglfar to its primarily turret based bonuses.
Naglfar: Launcher RoF bonus removed and Turret RoF bonus (5%) added.
oh god yes Quote:
XL Turrets
XL turrets have been adjusted slightly to ensure their damage is balanced and to give the short range weapons a bit more range.
Dual 1000mm Railgun: Damage mod to 5.8
Quad 3500mm Siege Artillery: Damage mod to 12.75
Ion Siege Blaster Cannon: Optimal 30 / Falloff 15
Dual Giga Pulse Laser: Optimal 37.5 / Falloff 10
6x 2500mm Repeating Artillery: Optimal 25
oh god oh god oh god MY NAGLFAR ahujhsusfshsfkkshfkssfk this owns soooooooooo much Quote:
Motherships --> Supercarriers
After careful consideration and further balancing, we will be reintroducing Supercarriers for Dominion 1.1. This will include:
• Fighter Bombers
• Hit Point boost
• Jump Range increase
• Removal of Triage usage
• Removal of Jump Clone usage
A special comment on the Hel – we realize that among these ships, the Hel’s bonus to repair might be seen as a bit ‘meh’. The other school of thought is that considering how useful remote repair is, especially when it comes to carrier combat, perhaps the Hel’s bonus is not so bad. So, what would you like to see here? Would an additional boost to the current RR bonus be welcomed? Ponies?
On the nidhoggur the remote rep bonus is awesome, but yeah, for a supercap 5% per level is not so hot, especially as other modules may be competing for those highslots. Bump it to 7.5 or even 10 and we might be in business. Quote:
Titans
A couple changes here to ensure all the titans are doing similar levels of damage, which they currently are not.
Ragnarok: Damage bonus to turrets to 125%
Leviathan: RoF bonus remove;, Damage bonus to 125%
I still don't really think these do enough to justify a Titan sticking around on the battlefield when there are hostile caps present. From the past couple of weeks we've seen titans mostly used for hit-and-runs against dreads and carriers (and an unfortunate Nyx ), with them only really using the guns in environments where no dreads were to be seen. Bump the default bonus up to 150% per level, with the Ragnarok and Leviathan perhaps getting 175%, and it might be worth fitting a rack of those XL guns and taking the ship along to a cap fight. Is there any target date for Dominion 1.1? (hopefully 'when its ready' this time, but still) |
naamira
Viziam
|
Posted - 2009.12.21 12:08:00 - [ 80]
<3abatur |
Misaki Yuuko
Caldari |
Posted - 2009.12.21 12:12:00 - [ 81]
About titans, why not an optimal bonus to guns/launchers, like 20% optimal bonus per level so they can use short ranged weapons effectivelly. |
Britomartida
Pumpkin Scissors
DarkSide. |
Posted - 2009.12.21 12:20:00 - [ 82]
How about this?
Minmatar: Hel
10% per level bonus to fighter speed.
More speed - more targets (many ships can just fly away from fighters on MWD), more damage as it reach their optimal faster. And speed bonus is pure minmatar style. |
Snake O'Donell
Gallente
Core Impulse
|
Posted - 2009.12.21 12:21:00 - [ 83]
Any particular reason why we aren't going to get the 5 minute triage module as originally stated? Or was that just missed in the post? |
iP0D |
Posted - 2009.12.21 12:21:00 - [ 84]
Hmmm .... so what little incentive there is now to field Titans solo or with one or two others will be taken away in the light of fighter bombers melting them in under 60 seconds as during the fleet testing events on Sisi where the only practical means was found in bringing more Titans?
|
Maule
Amarr
Destructive Influence
Northern Coalition. |
Posted - 2009.12.21 12:22:00 - [ 85]
so we still arent fitting armor reps i see :P |
Ezekiel Sulastin
Gallente
Shiva
Morsus Mihi |
Posted - 2009.12.21 12:23:00 - [ 86]
Originally by: LoveKebab
well maybe u r, but im not and im pretty sure im not the only1 since the last changes were postponed due to ppl not being happy about price reduction and ccp not knowing what to do to compensate players isk loss
The whining from the price reduction you mention was not because of the comparatively small loss of the clone vat bays from the required materials. The actual whining came during the Reign of Nozh, where his projected build cost for a supercarrier was somewhere between 5 and 6 billion as opposed to 11-12 billion - under Nozh's changes, you could literally self-destruct your mothership pre-Dominion, rebuild it post-Dominion, and profit from the 40% base insurance. THAT is the price reduction that had people up in arms (among other things). Did you even pay attention prepatch at all? |
Kaildoth
|
Posted - 2009.12.21 12:29:00 - [ 87]
Can you assign fighter bombers like you assign regular fighters? |
CWevers
Destructive Influence
IT Alliance |
Posted - 2009.12.21 12:31:00 - [ 88]
Hail Abathur our savior  |
Cors
It's A Trap
It's A Trap Alliance |
Posted - 2009.12.21 12:35:00 - [ 89]
Edited by: Cors on 21/12/2009 12:34:58
So what's the expected mineral cost on a Mother ship now?
And why no docking.
|
VonKaplanek III
Deep Core Mining Inc.
|
Posted - 2009.12.21 12:43:00 - [ 90]
Edited by: VonKaplanek III on 21/12/2009 12:51:25
When is this planned for?
What is the hp buff? 200percent like titans?
Why remove triage?
Why bother removing clone vat bay?
(I mean most people never used them, but some people did whats the point of removing an option? IMO no point removing options.)
*** must protect fighter bombers from Bombs ***
I bet that the gravity well from a Supercarrier would be such that it would dirupt the cloaking of any vessel within 50km wink wink nudge nudge :)
Lets hope that CCP doesn't nerf Abathur again. |
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