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MiltGyver
Gallente
Posted - 2009.12.20 21:48:00 - [1]
 

I would like some help figuring out the bonuses the Orca gives to those in my squad or my wing. I know there are mining foreman links, and several skills that affect cycle times and yield etc.

I have no idea how those percentages stack/apply to say a hulk in my squad, and what if I'm boosting a wing?

My goal is to recruit some miners that can make use of the bonuses and thus make more than they would by themselves, but also take a fair share for my corp/self.

I know I've seen other threads with calculations but some help understanding this would be appreciated. Is there a calculator somewhere to make it easy? Just like there are BPO calcs etc.

Mara Rinn
Posted - 2009.12.20 23:12:00 - [2]
 

Edited by: Mara Rinn on 22/12/2009 22:22:20
Here's the easy way out: at level 5, with a mining foreman implant, an orca pilot will boost their squad/wing/fleet by about 55% more ore per hour. The Orca pilot must be booster, and chain of command should be built from squad->wing->fleet.

Boosts do not stack, each pilot in the fleet will get the highest boost from the Squad/Wing/Fleet booster in the chain of command above them. If you have Orca pilots in a squad who are not the commander of the squad and are not set to booster for that squad, the squad gets no bonus. If you form a fleet, you are automatically set to be Fleet commander, you need to either move yourself to Squad commander and set the Orca pilot to booster, or set the Orca pilot to squad commander. Push the Orca pilot up the chain of command as you get more ships in the fleet.

One option you do have is to park your Orca at a belt (eg: the one in "Break Their Will" level 1 mission is beautiful), get three or four hulks mining it out, have a dedicated hauler in a fully cargo-optimised Bestower or Impel hauling back to station, and split the take equally amongst all the pilots. With only three hulks, each hulk pilot will get more than they would have solo. With more hulks, the situation looks much nicer for each hulk pilot.

As you get more hulks in the fleet you run out of rocks faster. You'll need an extra pilot to spawn the mission belts for you, which means you'll want a system with a large number of level 1 agents nearby.

While it is possible to spread your fleet out over multiple belts in a system, you'll be most efficient when the orca and hulks are within 70km of each other. The Break Their Will mission is perfect, since there are two belts - a clump of scordite in the middle, two rings of veldspar with a radius of 40km, and no NPCs will spawn until the station is attacked (at which point, a hulk or Orca can tank the NPCs while drones take them out).

Anyhow, enough blathering. For a mission-space mining fleet, you'll need the Orca pilot, three or more hulks, a hauler and a level 1 mission-runner (whose job is simply spamming level 1 missions looking for "Break Their Will", bookmarking the repair station, and contracting the bookmark to the Orca pilot). Everyone is kept busy enough to be "entertained" without being stressed out, and the night is set for cruising along on voice chat talking about the extortionate rates that kids these days are charging for clearing snow from driveways.

Four hulks will clear the belt of scordite and veldspar in under two hours, so make sure the mission-runner has at least three belts bookmarked at all times. After each downtime, the mission-runner needs to warp to the encounter to spawn the mission belt, before everyone else arrives. The mission-runner doesn't need to be cotemporal with the mining fleet either, so that's something useful for your out-of-timezone friend to be doing to earn a little ISK on the side.

This is something I have done before, and there are enough systems with clumps of level 1 combat agents that you can keep the whole fleet busy - the hardest part is finding enough level 1 agents within 1 jump of each other.

Tau Cabalander
Posted - 2009.12.21 02:07:00 - [3]
 

Edited by: Tau Cabalander on 22/12/2009 06:50:18

Everything multiplies. It isn't hard.

Total Bonus With Mindlink Implant = 2% Link Bonus * Mining Director Skill Level * (1 + Warfare Link Specialist Skill Level * 0.10) * (1 + Industrial Command Ship Skill Level * 0.03) * 1.5 Mindlink Bonus

EDIT: Oops! Typo on link specialist. Sorry for the confusion.


HowardStern
Posted - 2009.12.21 16:09:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: Mara Rinn
Here's the easy way out: at level 5, with a mining foreman implant, an orca pilot will boost their squad/wing/fleet by about 55% more ore per hour.




Rolling Eyes

Sea Sharp
Posted - 2009.12.21 23:45:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: Tau Cabalander
Everything multiplies. It isn't hard.

Total Bonus With Mindlink Implant = 2% Link Bonus * Mining Director Skill Level *(1 + Warfare Link Specialist Skill Level * 1.10) * (1 + Industrial Command Ship Skill Level * 0.03) * 1.5 Mindlink Bonus




So, assuming I have a mining foreman mindlink giving 15% mining amount and 50% mindlink bonus, plus director V, industrial command V and warfare specialist v, the total bonus will be: 2 * 5 * (1 + 5 * 1.1) * (1 + 5 * 0.03) * 1.5

= 112.125%

Yes, that was hard. To the average guy, it's almost incomprehensible.


Mara Rinn
Posted - 2009.12.22 00:25:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Sea Sharp
So, assuming I have a mining foreman mindlink giving 15% mining amount and 50% mindlink bonus, plus director V, industrial command V and warfare specialist v, the total bonus will be: 2 * 5 * (1 + 5 * 1.1) * (1 + 5 * 0.03) * 1.5

= 112.125%

Yes, that was hard. To the average guy, it's almost incomprehensible.


And easily falsifiable.

Mindlink gives 15% bonus to yield, which replaces the Mining Foreman 10% bonus.

Mining Director 5 gives 400% bonus to mining gang links. The only link that boosts yield* is the Laser Optimisation, which at Mining Director 5 will reduce cycle times by 10%. Industrial Command Ship 5 will add 15% to the effectiveness of that link. Warfare Link Specialist boosts the module by 50%. Then the Mining Foreman Mindlink boost link effectiveness by 50%. So all up we have link reducing cycle times by about 25.9%, which is effectively boosting yield per unit time by 35%.

So we have the 15% bonus to direct yield, and the 35% bonus to yield over time, which multiplies out to about 55% bonus to yield over time.

And that's not even taking into account the benefit of the Orca's huge cargo & ore holds, which means you're running back to station to dump ore far less often. In addition, you can fit your Hulk with Mining Laser Upgrades instead of Expanded Cargoholds.

From my experience, it takes about 3 cycles for a yield-maxed Hulk to fill its hold. That translates to about 6 minutes. Warping to a station, dumping cargo, undocking and warping back to the belt takes me about 3 minutes. Thus the duty cycle of a Hulk without a hauler is 66% - that is, out of any 9 minute period, you're only actually mining for 6 minutes.

So if you have the Hulk supported by an Orca, not only do you get more yield per hour from the innate bonus of the Orca, but you get a 30% increase in yield per hour simply from the fact that the Orca can hold the entire asteroid belt in its belly. No more warping back to station.

Note that if the Orca pilot was to fly a Hulk instead, you'd still get the 15% bonus from the Mining Foreman Mindlink. In that case the Orca really only provides a 35% bonus to yield over time, along with the 30% increase in duty cycle.

Clear as mud?

* The other two mining foreman links boost laser range (strip miners with a range of about 23km) and capacitor usage (so you can run strip miners and an active tank). The 23km range arguably has an impact on yield, since you can reach more rocks without moving. In practice, you can cruise slowly along the asteroid belt to make sure you have more rocks that will be in range once the ones you're currently mining run out.

When mining mission space such as "Mordus Folly" or "Break Their Will", the extra range is invaluable in Mordus Folly the belt has a radius of 21km, in Break Their Will the gap between rocks is about 10km.

Tau Cabalander
Posted - 2009.12.22 01:11:00 - [7]
 

The formula I posted is for links, not yield. The mining link reduces cycle time. Notice I never mentioned the yield bonus from the mindlink implant, just the bonus it gives to links!

Link yield bonus = 1 / (1 - cycle time reduction bonus)

Then you can factor in the mindlink implant yield bonus.

For example:

Mining Director 5
Warfare Link Specialist 5
Industrial Command Ship 5
Minning Mindlink Implant

Link Bonus = 0.02 * 5 * (1 + 5 * 0.1) * (1 + 5 * 0.03) * 1.5 = 0.258750
So almost 26% lower cycle time from the link.

Link Yield Bonus = 1 / (1 - 0.258750) = 1.3490725
So almost 35% more ore just from just the link.

Total yield bonus = 1.3490725 * 1.15 = 1.551433

So final tally is 55% more ore for being buffed by a fully pimped-out Orca pilot.


Mara Rinn
Posted - 2009.12.22 03:28:00 - [8]
 

Edited by: Mara Rinn on 22/12/2009 03:43:02
Edited by: Mara Rinn on 22/12/2009 03:36:49
Originally by: Tau Cabalander
So final tally is 55% more ore for being buffed by a fully pimped-out Orca pilot.



And a note that the important numbers come from Mining Director 5, and having the Mining Foreman Mindlink. Everything else is gravy.

Back to the OPs question about how to provide the boosts: the Orca pilot, being in a command ship and providing boosts to a team, provides their boost only to those in the fleet hierarchy under them. Thus as a Squad Commander, the Orca pilot will be boosting just their squad. As a Wing Commander, the Orca pilot will be boosting the number of squads their Wing Commander skill will let them lead. As a Fleet commander, same thing with Fleet Commander skill.

If there is an Orca pilot flying as Fleet commander and another Orca pilot flying as Wing commander, the Wing under the wing commander will receive the highest boost from the wing or fleet commander (but only the highest boost - the boosts do not stack). The rest of the fleet will only receive boosts from the Fleet commander.

All the information in this thread is, of course, already presented in Halada's Complete Miner's Guide.

And again, a reminder that an Orca provides more benefit to a mining fleet than yield per hour bonuses due to warfare links. Once you factor in the duty cycle boost, extreme tractor beam range, corporate hangars and room to store two rigged Hulks, you'll appreciate that an Orca is useful for even a two-ship mining fleet - with the caveat that the Orca pilot should be trained to at least Mining Director 5, and have the Mining Foreman Mindlink installed. Further training in Warfare Link Specialist or Industrial Command Ship adds minor percentages to the yield (I'd prioritise Industrial Command in order to get slight boost and cargo hold gains).

Mara Rinn
Posted - 2009.12.22 03:58:00 - [9]
 

Edited by: Mara Rinn on 22/12/2009 22:18:30
Edited by: Mara Rinn on 22/12/2009 04:00:12
And just because I love the sound of my own typing, here's a short story about a mining op.

I've just scored "Break Their Will" from a level 1 mission agent. I call my Orca pilot and let the corp know that there's a mining op in this system. Orca pilot joins the fleet (thankyou Fleet Finder) and I promote the Orca pilot to squad commander (with myself, a lowly Hulk pilot, as squad member).

Orca arrives in system, warps to me, I board my Hulk from the ship maintenance bay of the Orca. The Orca pilot turned on the two mining links (range and cycle time) as soon as the great lump of a ship came out of warp. I start mining the veldspar rings (I go "up" from here, second pilot goes "right").

As the rest of the fleet arrives, they warp to the Orca. Second miner boards a hulk from the Orca and takes the "right" veldspar belt. Other miners start to arrive in their mining frigates, cruisers, battleships, and go crazy on the Scordite hanging around the repair station.

At the end of the hour-long operation, the Hulk pilots reboard their original craft and the fleet disperses on the stellar winds. The Orca pilot heads back to station to refine the ore, heads off to market and sells it. Each of the pilots receives a 1/N+1 portion of the proceeds, regardless of what they were actually flying. The N+1th portion is contributed to the corp wallet to fund the CEO's collection of exotic ships. Or something.


 

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