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Neo Gabriel
Gallente
Percussive Diplomacy
The Phoenix. Consortium
Posted - 2009.12.04 02:20:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Neo Gabriel on 04/12/2009 08:47:30
I am writing this in the name of all Faction Warfare players. Please take your time to read me out, post your thoughts and support this measure.

I have been in Faction Warfare for about six months now. I enjoy the PVP, the roams, the gate camps, the hotdrops, the immersion of it.

Over time, I have come to loathe some aspects of it however. Massive amounts of bugs that have never been fixed, crappy plex mechanics, lack of rewards and objectives, lag, runaway exploitation of bugs and “features”, massive isk farming, etc...

I have decided to write this thread demanding CCP to look at Faction Warfare and do something about it. It is about time they hear us out and implement the measures we have been asking for more than a year.

They have no qualms working with 0.0 players, because honestly that is probably where they all play EVE. They have no problems with working with players to make their game better either, even if sometimes they waste all the collaboration for unknown reasons and create large amounts of grief towards the community. That problem notwithstanding, they still work to make lag better, improve sov mechanics, etc, to improve 0.0 gameplay: it is their vision of EndGame in EVE.

We in Faction Warfare are in it for a variety of reasons. Maybe we like the fast paced pvp, the lack of dull POS warfare, the powerlessness of living in 0.0 space as a renter or member of a large alliance where you make no decisions and have to do whatever you are told. Maybe you decided you were tired of doing the same mindless Highsec level 4 mission running, mining or playing the markets for some adrenaline in the Bubble, DD and Bomb free pvp environment of FW.

I joined FW because I saw it as a doorway to pvp. Didn't make me isk but it was fun. If it wasn't for the incredible adrenaline and fast pace of lowsec roams I would have probably left EVE already.

I will be borrowing some of the points from here: CSM proposal

There are a number of issues we have been asking for some time to be looked at and fixed:

There is no greater objective in FW. It doesn't matter that all systems have been captured by the caldari, there is no effect besides some lolRP. Nobody gains anything from capping systems.

There is no reward for capturing plexes. I get more standings increase form farming missions (and isk, lots of it). I lose standings with opposite faction however.

There is no reward for PVP, the amount of LP you get from kills is ridiculous. You get more from doing lvl1 missions. The LP reward has to be increased ten fold to have any meaning. At implementation of this feature, people were afraid of exploiting this mechanic... It would have been easy to prevent that, but we would have seen far greater exploiting somewhere else, however, Devs thought up an idea for 5 minutes and implemented a flawed mechanic.

FW Mission are an Isk printing machine. Everyone in EVE has an alt in a militia to help farm LP for the exclusive Store items. This was supposed to invigorate FW but it had the opposite effect. People stopped pvping and went farming instead. We have made a total of hundreds of billions of isk doing this, myself included. Almost no risk at all. And then they came with their “fix” that didn't fix anything and now people continue to farm LP. Moreover, missions for some factions are easier to do than others.
Plexes are severely bugged and unbalanced. They can be solo run with frigates, exploited to be unable to respawn after finishing, etc. It's a mess.

Now, I have my own ideas on what to do, how things should be done. I would like everyone to provide their input however. Argue your points so we can provide a guide map so CCP can do something about this game that we play.

I will be proving a personal vision soon.

For now, just support the following:

CCP MUST ADDRESS FACTION WARFARE. WE AS YOUR CUSTOMERS DESERVE ATTENTION. FIX IT NOW! Evil or Very Mad

Val Erian
Gallente
Azure Horizon Federate Militia

Posted - 2009.12.04 02:59:00 - [2]
 


Dr BattleSmith
PAX Interstellar Services

Posted - 2009.12.04 03:25:00 - [3]
 

This is the last expansion (or is it the one before?), why would they fix the last expansion when a new one could be relesaed full of eye candy.

Julius Foederatus
Posted - 2009.12.04 06:53:00 - [4]
 

Increase the LP from kills 5 or 10 times. Nerfing the missions is fine, I've had enough of seeing ***** manticores running around low sec doing missions and cloaking up when someone enters system, but there needs to be some way to get FW LP without losing more ships than you gain.

And for god's sake, make system occupancy mean something, so we can actually convince people to plex. Plex mechanics are borked, but not so much that people won't use them as long as they're given incentives.

chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Posted - 2009.12.04 08:38:00 - [5]
 

Another look at fw would be nice.

Neo Gabriel
Gallente
Percussive Diplomacy
The Phoenix. Consortium
Posted - 2009.12.04 08:45:00 - [6]
 

Here is what I think would do some good for Faction Warfare:

The NPCs in plexes and missions are significantly different in the way they operate. Gallente npcs use blasters and sensor dampeners and can be kited. Caldari npcs have all sorts of missiles and torpedoes that can hit you to 100km and the best EWAR of all, the ECM. I am not sure about the minmatar NPCs but i know they use target painters. I know the Amar use neut/nos and are close range fit, can be kited also. It would be good to have the npc ships looking different but all using all EWAR types and all weapon types, to make things more equal and plexes/missions not so easily farmed, requiring team work to run them.

Missions need to made harder to do. Don't allow them to be declined/quit to let you choose where you want them. Make sure you take no standing hit if the mission expires however (12hours or so). This will discourage farming and promote teamwork with roving gangs which is good for pvp. Also make sure missions work as plexes in system occupancy. If you finish missions, you get LP and you help with capturing a system.

Plexes offer no reward for running them. You get lame faction standing increases every time you get promoted and that's it. Allow for increments of 1000LP per plex captured per pilot inside. 1000lp for minors, 2000lp for mediums and 3000lp for majors. You may argue that people might exploit this: these plexes have timers, you can't farm them and the opposite side can come and fight you and your alts in stabbed executioners. And in contrast to missions, it is a lot less reward per time spent. I take about 5 minutes to run a lvl4 mission now once in system and I get 15-30K lp. Its 10 minutes for a minor and even more for the others.

It would be required that the plex spawn mechanics be fixed, so that plexes continuously respawn after being run. And just as importantly, fix the bugs regarding plexes, like the one that prevents the plex form respawning until downtime if it is bugged when someone warps out while in range, which keeps counting down and does not affect occupancy.

Militia members who willingly shoot fellow militia members must get severe sec status loss and faction loss. If you repeatedly engage people you will be dropped out after a few acts of aggression, while if you somehow mess up your overview, you can recuperate from your mistake.

Since a lot of corps like to come into FW, Dec a member corp and grief them while militia fleet members can't help them, make it so if ANY corporation decs a FW corp, it is effectively wardecing that faction. All the corps in that militia will be able to kill you w/o penalty, and the highsec police will shoot at you. You want to get easy targets in lowsec, be prepared to pay for the consequences.

El Franko
Posted - 2009.12.04 08:52:00 - [7]
 

Agreeing as hard as I can with Neogabriel's topic and all who agree with him.



...AS. HARD. AS. I. CAN.

Arkady Sadik
Minmatar
Electus Matari
Posted - 2009.12.04 09:06:00 - [8]
 

Fully supported

There are a ton of bugs related to FW ("auto-countdown on plexes", NPC standings, etc.). Beyond that, there are a ton of design problems with it, too (efficient complexe farming discourages PvP etc.).

I would go as far as to say that CCP should just re-think the whole FW approach.

But the most fundamental change FW needs, IMHO, is Morale support.

In any conflict, the party that is losing (for whatever reasons) is losing morale. Once morale is lost, resistance is broken. Conflicts "failure cascade" like this. FW needs a mechanic to counter this trend. One mechanic that was in the original design, but somehow got lost, was the idea that systems are (much!) easier to capture the fewer you have, and more difficult to capture the more you have.

The "losing side" then can get some quick success stories, which builds morale. The "better side" still will hold larger parts of the territory.

This is a fundamental problem because only this way, FW can survive the bugs it has. There will always be bugs. But without this, once one side has had an advantage for a sufficient amount of time, the other side will crumble, and you will not get a rebalance at all.

Kcarr1
Nova Expeditionary Corp
N O V A
Posted - 2009.12.04 09:13:00 - [9]
 

I couldn't agreee more.

Mithril Ryder
Genstar Inc
Posted - 2009.12.04 09:20:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Neo Gabriel
Here is what I think would do some good for Faction Warfare:


Plexes offer no reward for running them. You get lame faction standing increases every time you get promoted and that's it. Allow for increments of 1000LP per plex captured per pilot inside. 1000lp for minors, 2000lp for mediums and 3000lp for majors. You may argue that people might exploit this: these plexes have timers, you can't farm them and the opposite side can come and fight you and your alts in stabbed executioners. And in contrast to missions, it is a lot less reward per time spent. I take about 5 minutes to run a lvl4 mission now once in system and I get 15-30K lp. Its 10 minutes for a minor and even more for the others.



The only thing I would say, is that adding more people inside a plex needs to not simple give each person the full LP. That will simply reward blobs and alt-runners (you know who you are). A better idea is either the total LP is split between players based on how much relative time each has spent inside the plex (showing up for 1 minute gets you less then staying in it the whole time) and/or the each person beyond a single player in the plex when it is captured adds 50% of the LP to the pool that the previous person did, and the pool is then split evenly. That math goes like this:

x=Single player LP reward
y= total LP reward (starts at single player reward)
for each player after the first in the plex when it captures:
x=x/2
y=y+x

A simple "stacking penalty" for the LP reward, round up to the next whole LP always for simplicity

Originally by: Neo Gabriel

Militia members who willingly shoot fellow militia members must get severe sec status loss and faction loss. If you repeatedly engage people you will be dropped out after a few acts of aggression, while if you somehow mess up your overview, you can recuperate from your mistake.

Since a lot of corps like to come into FW, Dec a member corp and grief them while militia fleet members can't help them, make it so if ANY corporation decs a FW corp, it is effectively wardecing that faction. All the corps in that militia will be able to kill you w/o penalty, and the highsec police will shoot at you. You want to get easy targets in lowsec, be prepared to pay for the consequences.

That might be a bit harsh, and possibly cause it's own problems.

Bolded some items for emphasis.

I'm tired of feeling like FW has a rad "Under construction" GIF straight out of geocities on it.

El Franko
Posted - 2009.12.04 09:25:00 - [11]
 

What if....maybe....Stick with me here.

1 FW character per account. Weed out the free alts.

If you want to glitch out the system with your 1000 alts, you should have to at least pay for them.

Mrho23
Posted - 2009.12.04 09:26:00 - [12]
 

Fully agree the plexes are just to easy for caldari.Make the npc guarding it the same or then just with same ewar ships.It has to be done something if not you will lose alot of guys that want to do something in the game and are role playing guys trying to make something in fw.

KashmirZ
Gallente
Legacy of the stars
Posted - 2009.12.04 09:39:00 - [13]
 

Definantly something CCP need to look into, i empathize with the fact that they set up the ground work for faction wars and had other things they wanted to put priority on, i understand this, you only have so many staff and so many work hours in the day.

However respectfully, i think if you have the chance now as dominion has been released, perhaps faction wars could be developed more? making it into something really special, like all us pvp corporations and role players would love to see it become, instead of a glorified war dec.

Dont misunderstand me, i love FW, i would also however ,love to see it evolve and change, and become more dynamic and tactical.

<3 FW

Monika Lonehorn
Posted - 2009.12.04 09:44:00 - [14]
 

I would like to say, FW needs alot of work, thier is alot of good ideals,And I cant wait to see how CCP responds to it.

El Franko
Posted - 2009.12.04 09:53:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Monika Lonehorn
...And I cant wait to see how CCP responds to it.

Laughing

While I doubt ccp will care enough to stop messing around with 0.0 mechanics, I do hope they take a look at the FW statistics and...maybe realize something is wrong.

Mister Xerox
Posted - 2009.12.04 14:18:00 - [16]
 


iPeen
Posted - 2009.12.04 16:09:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: El Franko
What if....maybe....Stick with me here.

1 FW character per account. Weed out the free alts.

If you want to glitch out the system with your 1000 alts, you should have to at least pay for them.

Strongly concur with this sentiment, I think spies have done MAJOR damage to FW. As someone said the other day in chat, the Caldari have more spies in the Gallente militia than fighters in theirs! I'd think a militia would be suspicious after a person joins/leaves/rejoins more than once a month. Also there should be some sort of mechanic to 'out' known spies and be able to take action against them without security loss. Once a spy is burned, it's only logical that there would be consequences.

Neu Bastian
Minmatar
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
Posted - 2009.12.04 16:43:00 - [18]
 

FIX FW!

Angry Fist
Minmatar
Tribal Core

Posted - 2009.12.04 16:52:00 - [19]
 

Fix it please. I won't be holding my breath though.

Enil Eromeno
Posted - 2009.12.04 17:00:00 - [20]
 

/sign

Nihil Magnus
Posted - 2009.12.04 17:17:00 - [21]
 


ing SpeedyJ
Gallente
Posted - 2009.12.04 17:53:00 - [22]
 

Edited by: ing SpeedyJ on 04/12/2009 17:53:01
I agree, we need to move FW into next lvl.

TerminatorBR
Posted - 2009.12.04 19:22:00 - [23]
 

Edited by: TerminatorBR on 04/12/2009 19:23:11
FW needs FIX!
I'm getting sick of those ridiculous cheaptrick exploited flawed mechanics!

I totaly support this thread.

Signed/
TerminatorBR

No Mauk'Ob
Minmatar
Murientor Tribe
Posted - 2009.12.04 20:04:00 - [24]
 

fix FW

Hailey Sunweaver
Minmatar
Murientor Tribe

Posted - 2009.12.04 22:30:00 - [25]
 

Edited by: Hailey Sunweaver on 04/12/2009 22:30:33
Supported Exclamation

Vorru
Posted - 2009.12.05 01:54:00 - [26]
 

Agreed! I also like the idea of 1 FW toon per account. The spies really are getting bad. Everybody has a spy alt in the other sides Faction.

I also strongly emphasize doing something about the sov "mechaninc." The fact that the Gallente control 0 systems means absolutely nothing to me. Why? Because there is no advantage or disadvantage to winning or losing control of a system. Absolutely none.

-V for Vorru

Egilmonsc
Minmatar
Massively Mob

Posted - 2009.12.05 02:08:00 - [27]
 

Supporting the sentiment that Faction Warfare should be looked at--or even re-envisioned.

Gabriel Darkefyre
Minmatar
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2009.12.05 02:37:00 - [28]
 

Supported. The FW Mechanics need a serious overhaul. Devs need to take a look, see what works, see whats broken (but repairable), See whats Broken (But can be replaced with something better that does the intended job) and See Whats Broken (and should be scrapped completely)

The very first attitude that needs to be scrapped is the attitude that FW is a Stepping Stone to the "End Game" of 0.0. After all, how many Current FW Corps have come FROM 0.0 into FW?

EVE is whatever you make of it, whether your endgame is grinding out L4's while shaving seconds off your completion time by fitting the latest pimp combination of Ship and Modules, Claiming your own slice of 0.0, Squeezing every ounce of Efficiency out of your Mining Operations, Wormholes, Factional Warfare... etc...

Point is, ANY Content could be seen as being End Game Content to someone. So, it's time to consider all Content as being equally worthy of development rather than having the attitude that because 0.0 is currently seen as the only end game that it's the part that deserves the most attention all the time to the detriment of other parts of the game, not just FW.

Zastrow
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.12.05 03:04:00 - [29]
 

i only ever dabbled in faction warfare with an alt but undock games and other empire mechanics made it lame as hell. I encourage you to test the waters of 0.0 under the new Dominion mechanics

soldieroffortune 258
Gallente
Tribal Liberation Force

Posted - 2009.12.05 03:44:00 - [30]
 

Sounds good to me. I like the idea of buffing Faction Warfare, I was in it for about 3 months after it came out, dropped because my friends were heading off to 0.0, decided to go with them.

There are a few things however that are as they are now for good reasons. Killing players for the LP for example.

It can't be increased ten fold because of the risk of players killing off their own alts, losing nothing. It can't be increased ten fold, however it can still be looked at.


One thing I didn't see in your post (I only skimmed it however) was the lag, I have heard numerous times and experienced it and seen it personally. Lag also needs to be fixed.


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