| Author |
Topic |
RAW23 |
Posted - 2010.01.01 12:47:00 - [ 811]
 Originally by: Ray McCormack
No, we will use a model whereby profits from good months go towards shoring up deficits in bad months. There is no mechanism for profit sharing in the bank currently.
Great. Thanks for clearing that up. |
SencneS
Rebellion Against Big Irreversible Dinks
|
Posted - 2010.01.01 22:32:00 - [ 812]
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha
How that could happen? In EvE?
Since interests are compounding, and thus potentially generating a devastating snowball effect, are the combined loans interests going to cover the compounding depositor interests?
What is the actual net gain out of this?
"Is it a sound business worth doing?"
Reputation as collateral was Ricdic's baby, he was the loan officer. I might add that at the time EBANK was targeting toward big well known high profile names that needed a LOT of ISK quickly that could recover the ISK quickly. A non-collateral set of loans net EBANK over 80B in interest (Not exaggerating here). You could say these loans in particular were the loans that opening up a point to start justifying loans of that nature. If big names wanted a loan, Ricdic issued them, all but a couple paid them back, and those names have been exposed. I guess you could say Ricdic was gambling on loans of this nature, but he was on a winning streak, loan after loan repaid in full with interest. Was it a mistake, sure, looking back it was a bad idea. Looking at it from that moment in time EBANK was piling up ISK, so why stop a good thing. I think everyone would continue to make the same risky moves if it nets you billions of ISK, every time. In some cases tens of billions of ISK. The issue EBANK faced was, the default was much higher then the profit earned to date. As for "interest covering interest" Yes, Loan interest is compounding too so as long as both are equal or loan interest is higher then the interest being paid for that ISK borrowed, it's covered. Is it a sound business worth doing?? In my opinion Yes. Back months ago in the Banks and Loans thread I posted what I believe would be a viable bank or lending operation. With the Dynamic locks on deposits for loans issued and as principle is paid back, deposits get unlocked. Along with distributed risk in the form of each loan amount be evenly divided between all accounts. Interest for deposited and used ISK be profit sharing between the institution and the accounts (Heavier on the accounts). I'd also add in an additional thing now, since the recent discussion is about non-collateral loans. If I was running that particular bank or loan institution I'd set aside part of the profits from each collateral loans (After liability has been meet). I'd use it on loans where reputation is used as collateral. Much like a reserve of Profit from loans. Maybe 0.5% for every loan added interest for this. This way it doesn't effect the deposits, the non-collateral loans are issued from left over profits. While others might disagree with this idea. EBANK has a pretty decent history is loans to go off, almost all the non-collateral loans returned vast amounts of interest. Reusing the profit to the Bank itself in return for risking it on big reputations is well worth it. |
Ray McCormack
Nordar Innovations. |
Posted - 2010.01.02 06:37:00 - [ 813]
Sorry, not been reading up much on the other discussions, but is there a question over whether or not the lending of money is a sound business practise?
If so then the answer is unequivocally yes.
Is lending without collateral a sound business practise? Then the answer is proven to be no.
|
Marcus Baltar
Savaran Zhayedan Spah |
Posted - 2010.01.03 19:31:00 - [ 814]
Originally by: SencneS
LVV at the, imho unreasonable, request of trolls that had no ISK in EBANK, to inform every EBANK member via EVEMail about account closure. LVV worked day and night and got CCP approval to spam EVE with over 9000+ EVEMails. Some of those Characters came back... dead, as in removed from the game/reprocessed.
Why 9,000+ EveMails? Currently EBANK's statistics page is only reporting 7,016 account holders (and that number has never decreased) holding between 2-4 accounts each, for a total number of accounts at 15,260. (Sorry if it is a pointless/outdated question).As to the frozen interest on accounts: Can it be handled like salaries? Recorded and paid out when assets exceed liabilities? |
SencneS
Rebellion Against Big Irreversible Dinks
|
Posted - 2010.01.03 22:29:00 - [ 815]
Originally by: Marcus Baltar
Why 9,000+ EveMails? Currently EBANK's statistics page is only reporting 7,016 account holders (and that number has never decreased) holding between 2-4 accounts each, for a total number of accounts at 15,260. (Sorry if it is a pointless/outdated question).
As to the frozen interest on accounts: Can it be handled like salaries? Recorded and paid out when assets exceed liabilities?
Because it's OVER 9000!!!!!!  I guess it really doesn't matter, 1000 unsolicited EVEMails from one person probably would have yielded a ban without CCP approval, but you're right I don't think it was 9000, probably something like 5000-6000. I was having some fun and only one person caught it a few pages back :) Remember this EVEMail that went out wasn't about the Freezing accounts or interest. It was to inform people to stop sending ISK to EBANK Ricdic. That happened way back in May/June. So to the person that says they didn't get their EVEMail about Freezing and Interest they are right, one was never send. The only EVEMail LVV has mass sent was the Stop using EBANK Ricdic as the deposit point. I went looking for the exact number that went out, it is dig in deep in EBANK's internal forum, or it was on the original Ricdic stole thread that I went looking for as well. A lot of threads where around there about that. I couldn't find it, but either way, consider LVV was limited to under 50 Characters per EVEMail, any number over 1000 was an unreasonable request. As for interest being retro-paid like salaries, Interest paid now or later the result is the same, longer recovery. And don't hold onto that Salaries bit either, as Payroll Manager I am tasked with coming up with a new payroll. I'm going to be suggesting some radical changes, one of which would remove the participation pay. Which is where the "bulk" of Payroll came from. People getting paid for tasks performed rather then simple active forum discussion. Tasks like tellering where a teller ISSUES ISK back to the customer will always be there, but I'm focusing toward things like income limits, payroll budget limitations etc. Put it this way, unless the rest of the board vote to keep payroll the same, the "Salaries" that are being tracked for retro pay will be limited, VERY limited. |
LaVista Vista
Conservative Shenanigans Party |
Posted - 2010.01.04 05:10:00 - [ 816]
Originally by: SencneS
consider LVV was limited to under 50 Characters per EVEMail, any number over 1000 was an unreasonable request.
50? Hah, I wish! The limit is 5 characters. And we sent out around 6500 emails. |
Ray McCormack
Nordar Innovations. |
Posted - 2010.01.04 06:57:00 - [ 817]
Some form of profit distribution to currently affected account holders is possible in the future to offset the missed interest payments.
|
Leneerra
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
|
Posted - 2010.01.04 07:01:00 - [ 818]
Sencnes,
recovery without compensating for lost intrest would not be a complete recovery automatically.
You (ebank) have made an arbitrary decision on where you consider recovery complete.
You could have picked any level and stamp it with the label recovery, but that does not make it so. It is just some arbitrairy number at which you have decided, without any form of negotiation with te people you actualy owe isk to (or some form of representation), to consider your debt repayed.
You owe me 4.something Bil isk + intrest, because that is the agreement we had when you froze my assets and disallowed me access to what is mine. Until I say your debt is cleared with me I will consider you in default. If you claim you payed it all and ignore my claim, I will consider you scammers.
That does not mean we could not settle the outstanding debt at anything less than a full repayment, but it does mean I have to accept your settlement proposal, as much as you have to accept it, for it to be considered a complete recovery by me and I do not think I am the only person thinking like that.
|
RAW23 |
Posted - 2010.01.04 12:14:00 - [ 819]
Edited by: RAW23 on 04/01/2010 12:14:01 Originally by: Leneerra
Sencnes,
recovery without compensating for lost intrest would not be a complete recovery automatically.
You (ebank) have made an arbitrary decision on where you consider recovery complete.
You could have picked any level and stamp it with the label recovery, but that does not make it so. It is just some arbitrairy number at which you have decided, without any form of negotiation with te people you actualy owe isk to (or some form of representation), to consider your debt repayed.
You owe me 4.something Bil isk + intrest, because that is the agreement we had when you froze my assets and disallowed me access to what is mine. Until I say your debt is cleared with me I will consider you in default. If you claim you payed it all and ignore my claim, I will consider you scammers.
That does not mean we could not settle the outstanding debt at anything less than a full repayment, but it does mean I have to accept your settlement proposal, as much as you have to accept it, for it to be considered a complete recovery by me and I do not think I am the only person thinking like that.
The principles underlying Leneera's points here are eminently reasonable. However, from a practical perspective it is not possible for the bank to negotiate separately with each individual depositor and the outcome of any collective negotiation is not going to satisfy everyone. But I agree that some form of negotiation is necessary. Is there any chance of the BoD accepting a representative of the depositors onto the board with a specific brief to look out for their interests? If not, could the bank encourage the depositors to appoint a spokesperson from their own (the depositors') ranks to negotiate with the BoD? Some form of consent to a settlement transmitted via a representative is probably the best that can be hoped for in this situation. Originally by: Ray McCormack
Some form of profit distribution to currently affected account holders is possible in the future to offset the missed interest payments.
This is very encouraging and may represent the ideal, realistic (if that is not an oxymoron) solution to Leneera's problem above. However, at some point in the not too distant future such a possibility needs to become a committment. Whilst consideration of such a possibility is a fine sign of the board's good will, it is not really acceptable for such an outcome to be seen as in the gift of the board, and thus as easily taken away as given, rather than as a firm obligation that recognises the entitlement of the depositors to some form of compensation for their lost interest. |
Filia Tacabus
Minmatar
LionGate Systems |
Posted - 2010.01.04 12:55:00 - [ 820]
Im getting all confused about this, can someone pls explain me what i should do and what i can expect?
I got 2 toons with e-bank accounts, 1 with allmost 6b and 1 with almost 4b, both of them have the money in "pending" mode.
If i want to get those or some of those isk out, what should i do?
Ive allready logged in with my aspi key!
This is all the isk i have in the game and i cant afford to use RL money to buy GTC´s, i allready used RL money to activate both toons so i could activate my e-bank acounts again for the aspi thing. I thought i could get the isk out again now?
|
Dagny Bronstein |
Posted - 2010.01.04 13:18:00 - [ 821]
Originally by: Filia Tacabus
If i want to get those or some of those isk out, what should i do?
wait. post on the forums. wait. Read eve-bank.net regularly -- when limited withdrawals get enabled, they will be served on a "while stocks last" "first come - first served" basis (but then it doesn't currently appear as if the so far announced policies are actually set in stone). (if EBANK should replace the limited API requirement with send <x> ISK to verify your identity, think twice  ) Originally by: eve-bank.net
Next Update
The next announcement is due February 15th to March 1st, so expect it in April sometime.
|
Yendor Widdershins
Gallente
University of Caille |
Posted - 2010.01.05 01:17:00 - [ 822]
Originally by: Filia Tacabus
Im getting all confused about this, can someone pls explain me what i should do and what i can expect?
EBank claims they will put in place a mechanism where at least some people will be able to liquidate their accounts for around 30% value. Of course, previously EBank claimed that no one person (not even Riddic) could cause substantial harm. And after he scammed, EBank claimed to have plenty of liquid assets to process withdraws. In short, expect to lose everything. |
CrestoftheStars
Caldari
Recreation Of The World
|
Posted - 2010.01.06 20:17:00 - [ 823]
Originally by: Yendor Widdershins
Originally by: Filia Tacabus
Im getting all confused about this, can someone pls explain me what i should do and what i can expect?
EBank claims they will put in place a mechanism where at least some people will be able to liquidate their accounts for around 30% value.
Of course, previously EBank claimed that no one person (not even Riddic) could cause substantial harm. And after he scammed, EBank claimed to have plenty of liquid assets to process withdraws.
In short, expect to lose everything.
let me put it like this: in a world (eve universe with the gods CCP) where scamming/stealing is TOTALLY allowed and fully accepted without any kind of punishment that can be set, where would you EVER hope to have a bank or any other kind off trust to any one?! at this point i wouldn't trust any one in eve, even the most well known, with such amount of isk. losing several billions on these kind of things without any means of punisment or way to make things "right" just makes you extremely unfriendly towards other players and removes any trust in other players. personally i think this is hurting the social aspect of the game and i am sure some off the old players would agree from back in the days when people where nice and helpfull.. but this is what happends when you make a world without rules and without the tools to punish those who hurt the mass. |
Taikun
Gallente
Jovoso
Teldar Paper |
Posted - 2010.01.06 21:45:00 - [ 824]
Originally by: Filia Tacabus
Im getting all confused about this, can someone pls explain me what i should do and what i can expect?
What you should do is realistically kiss your ISK goodbye. You will never see anything like your 6 billion returned to you. Personal opinion and years of experience listening to jokers like these suggests the current state of affairs is nothing but 'holding pattern' for them to liquidate their own personal holdings and jump ship. You (along with hundreds of others) were scammed... it's all gone. Taikun |
YouGotRipped
Ewigkeit |
Posted - 2010.01.07 04:59:00 - [ 825]
Edited by: YouGotRipped on 07/01/2010 05:12:24Such a disrespectful community, to me it looks like Ebank is lacking the determination to implement "the final solution" in regards to the funds held i.e. scam you all. Furthermore, it is a clear example of bad faith as Sartre defined it a long time ago. Quote:
Sartre cites a café waiter, whose movements and conversation are a little too "waiter-esque". His voice oozes with an eagerness to please; he carries food rigidly and ostentatiously. His exaggerated behaviour illustrates that he is play acting as a waiter, as an object in the world: an automaton whose essence is to be a waiter. But that he is obviously acting belies that he is aware that he is not (merely) a waiter, but is rather consciously deceiving himself.
SCAM, FFS! SCAM NOW! |
Master waka |
Posted - 2010.01.08 16:38:00 - [ 826]
Hey waka here im back from being away from eve for a while i put in my api and clicked to withdraw my isk, my account shows no more isk in ebank, however its not on my character, i sent a message to ebank a few days ago and got nothing so im typing on this forum in case someone reads it, whats up with my isk and iam i getting my isk or not? |
Dzil
Caldari
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
The Fourth District |
Posted - 2010.01.08 16:57:00 - [ 827]
Originally by: Master waka
Hey waka here im back from being away from eve for a while i put in my api and clicked to withdraw my isk, my account shows no more isk in ebank, however its not on my character, i sent a message to ebank a few days ago and got nothing so im typing on this forum in case someone reads it, whats up with my isk and iam i getting my isk or not?
Cool story. 1. Your isk is frozen. 2. Anyone's guess. |
Master waka |
Posted - 2010.01.09 02:25:00 - [ 828]
the reason its such an issue it was in the account, well i then wrote the amount to withdraw and it left the ebank account and went where? |
Kilsatro |
Posted - 2010.01.09 02:32:00 - [ 829]
Are people just clinging to the hope they will ever get their money back? |
SetrakDark
DarkCorp Citizens Holdings
DarkCorp Citizens |
Posted - 2010.01.09 02:35:00 - [ 830]
Originally by: Kilsatro
Are people just clinging to the hope they will ever get their money back?
The people who can math good have taken the 40% offer from Ihatalo Cartel, which, afaik, is still on the table. |
Katiana Swan |
Posted - 2010.01.09 03:41:00 - [ 831]
If EBANK had hired Akita T they would have been out of this mess by now |
Marcus Baltar
Savaran Zhayedan Spah |
Posted - 2010.01.09 10:49:00 - [ 832]
|
CompTrekkie |
Posted - 2010.01.12 18:25:00 - [ 833]
Edited by: CompTrekkie on 12/01/2010 19:43:42
I got all exited and then :-(. I put all my info in as requested and my 600Mil is not there. Just ~713k in the suspense account. The only thing I can think of is that when the hold was first but on the accounts I tried to withdraw before I knew what was going on. The account showed it had left my balance but was in a hold status and never released. Now after the changes it is just gone and not credited to my account!
Any help or others with this issue?
*EDIT*
Ok I see the issue. I looked at my withdraws and the amount I tried to withdraw is still showing as pending from 5 months ago and the little I had left in my account was transferred to the suspense account. Is there a way to get the ISK that is pending put back in my account?
V/r
Comp
*EDIT 2*
Ok should have read the thread first. I see there are others with this issue as well. I have opened a help desk ticket for teh issue. |
cosmoray
Perkone |
Posted - 2010.01.12 18:53:00 - [ 834]
Originally by: CompTrekkie
Edited by: CompTrekkie on 12/01/2010 18:41:37
Edited by: CompTrekkie on 12/01/2010 18:32:04
Edited by: CompTrekkie on 12/01/2010 18:31:46
I got all exited and then :-(. I put all my info in as requested and my 600Mil is not there. Just ~713k in the suspense account. The only thing I can think of is that when the hold was first but on the accounts I tried to withdraw before I knew what was going on. The account showed it had left my balance but was in a hold status and never released. Now after the changes it is just gone and not credited to my account!
Any help or others with this issue?
*EDIT*
Ok I see the issue. I looked at my withdraws and the amount I tried to withdraw is still showing as pending from 5 months ago and the little I had left in my account was transferred to the suspense account. Is there a way to get the ISK that is pending put back in my account?
V/r
Comp
*EDIT 2*
Ok should have looked at back a few pages. I see there are aothers with this issue as well.
This brings up a great point. When will EBANK put the money held in pending withdrawals back into people actual accounts. Some people who have provided API details are looking to cash their accounts in the deal offered by IHAFS, and are being held up by the pending withdrawl state. This really needs to be actioned as it has been sitting for months. |
Dretzle Omega
Caldari
Global Economy Experts |
Posted - 2010.01.12 19:01:00 - [ 835]
|
Marcus Baltar
Savaran Zhayedan Spah |
Posted - 2010.01.13 10:32:00 - [ 836]
Originally by: Dretzle Omega
I got a "spreadsheet is not published" message trying to look at that.
Fixed; http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=ty4kmZCn8bXiZ2_JXcO0l-w&single=true&gid=1&output=htmlRemember - the "pending withdrawals" were not included in the 2009.09.09 liabilities, and I do not have complete figures before this date. The account/interest freeze started 2009.08.25. Think I must have pressed the wrong button - should update without any problems from now. |
Tarinara |
Posted - 2010.01.13 22:53:00 - [ 837]
|
Rada Ionesco
Caldari
Royal Enterprise
Cascade Probable |
Posted - 2010.01.16 17:30:00 - [ 838]
Originally by: Rada Ionesco
Originally by: Ray McCormack
Try moving one ISK less than you actually have, there may be a rounding issue.
Nope this doesn't work either. It still tells me I am trying to deduct more than the funds that are available in my account. Do I have to account for the 5% you guys charge as well, and include that in the math or is that deducted immediately by your teller?
So could Ray or someone else maybe help me out with this. I can't transfer money from my account to another. I have tried this three times now. I don't think I am doing it wrong, it just keeps giving me the same error message. |
Ray McCormack
Nordar Innovations. |
Posted - 2010.01.16 17:38:00 - [ 839]
Originally by: Rada Ionesco
it just keeps giving me the same error message.
Bad file name or number? Care to elaborate? |
Rada Ionesco
Caldari
Royal Enterprise
Cascade Probable |
Posted - 2010.01.16 17:43:00 - [ 840]
Originally by: Ray McCormack
Originally by: Rada Ionesco
it just keeps giving me the same error message.
Bad file name or number? Care to elaborate?
This is the error message. You have tried to withdraw more funds than you have in your account! |
All Channels
Market Discussions
; 