| Author |
Topic |
Theophilas
Amarr
Broski Enterprises
Elite Space Guild |
Posted - 2009.11.23 19:37:00 - [ 61]
 Originally by: Jade Constantine
Originally by: Theophilas
The tactics I speak of are going negative sec status to attack SF.
I don't believe anyone sensible has any kind of problem with that whatsoever. Its irrelevant to this debate.
Quote:
The Quebec Power incident is regrettable [i]if[/i] it's true, but it's easy to see how it happened in light of recent tactical developments.
Enlighten me. How do you think it could have "happened" ?
Quote:
As I said, it's regrettable if true, but the last thing we will be doing at this point is a full blown investigation. If SF wants to permanently stand down, then yes, we will conduct an investigation.
Regardless of full blown investigations perhaps you'd like to tell me which of the following statements you can accept as true at the moment? If you have a problem with any of them I'll be happy to supply you with the pertinent links.
***
Garst Tyrell was a PIE officer.
Garst Tyrell formed a corporation called No.Mercy.
No.Mercy wardecced an Amarrian hisec industrial alliance called Quebec Power.
Quebec asked for the reason for the dec and no reason was given.
No.Mercy private forums listed the reason for the dec as "for booty" and isk gathering.
No.Mercy officers attempted to ransom Quebec Power to the tune of 800m isk (for the dec to go away).
Garst Tyrell has been nominated as Amarrian-of-the-year in a contest organized and administrated by PIE Inc.
Thus far neither Garst Tyrell nor any other No.Mercy officer has offered reason for this war.
Quebec Power have sworn on the record that they are no supportors of TLF or Gallente State militias.
Quebec Power were not on the CVA red list.
We have heard no extenuating circumstances from the aggressors in this act and
Thus far no Amarrian of note has seen fit to condemn this act of piracy.
As I have said before, the odd tactics No Mercy are forced to implore are a direct result of combating you and your ilk. When said war is over, No Mercy will answer for any crimes an internal investigation deem them guilty of. There is zero need for you, or anyone else for that matter, to continue to weigh in regarding any facts or estimations that are felt to be relevant. All that needs be said, has been said. |
Jade Constantine
Gallente
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction |
Posted - 2009.11.23 19:48:00 - [ 62]
Edited by: Jade Constantine on 23/11/2009 19:48:53 Originally by: Theophilas
Originally by: Jade Constantine
Originally by: Theophilas
The tactics I speak of are going negative sec status to attack SF.
I don't believe anyone sensible has any kind of problem with that whatsoever. Its irrelevant to this debate.
Quote:
The Quebec Power incident is regrettable [i]if[/i] it's true, but it's easy to see how it happened in light of recent tactical developments.
Enlighten me. How do you think it could have "happened" ?
Quote:
As I said, it's regrettable if true, but the last thing we will be doing at this point is a full blown investigation. If SF wants to permanently stand down, then yes, we will conduct an investigation.
Regardless of full blown investigations perhaps you'd like to tell me which of the following statements you can accept as true at the moment? If you have a problem with any of them I'll be happy to supply you with the pertinent links.
***
Garst Tyrell was a PIE officer.
Garst Tyrell formed a corporation called No.Mercy.
No.Mercy wardecced an Amarrian hisec industrial alliance called Quebec Power.
Quebec asked for the reason for the dec and no reason was given.
No.Mercy private forums listed the reason for the dec as "for booty" and isk gathering.
No.Mercy officers attempted to ransom Quebec Power to the tune of 800m isk (for the dec to go away).
Garst Tyrell has been nominated as Amarrian-of-the-year in a contest organized and administrated by PIE Inc.
Thus far neither Garst Tyrell nor any other No.Mercy officer has offered reason for this war.
Quebec Power have sworn on the record that they are no supportors of TLF or Gallente State militias.
Quebec Power were not on the CVA red list.
We have heard no extenuating circumstances from the aggressors in this act and
Thus far no Amarrian of note has seen fit to condemn this act of piracy.
As I have said before, the odd tactics No Mercy are forced to implore are a direct result of combating you and your ilk. When said war is over, No Mercy will answer for any crimes an internal investigation deem them guilty of. There is zero need for you, or anyone else for that matter, to continue to weigh in regarding any facts or estimations that are felt to be relevant.
All that needs be said, has been said.
Okay, then I accept your clear statement that direct pressure from Star Fraction against the 24th Crusade has caused certain 24th Crusaders to pillage and despoil their "backyard" to gain isk and war-material to continue the fight. I accept your word that No.Mercy will stand trial for their crimes after the war is over. (Not that I expect that will be much comfort for the victims of Garst Tyrell's aggression mind.) Still from our part War continues and if the 24th Crusade feel obliged to sustain themselves by despoiling and predating on Amarrian hisec taxbase that is a matter for your conscience not ours. |
Theophilas
Amarr
Broski Enterprises
Elite Space Guild |
Posted - 2009.11.23 19:52:00 - [ 63]
Originally by: Jade Constantine
Okay, then I accept your clear statement that direct pressure from Star Fraction against the 24th Crusade has caused certain 24th Crusaders to pillage and despoil their "backyard" to gain isk and war-material to continue the fight. I accept your word that No.Mercy will stand trial for their crimes after the war is over. (Not that I expect that will be much comfort for the victims of Garst Tyrell's aggression mind.)
Still from our part War continues and if the 24th Crusade feel obliged to sustain themselves by despoiling and predating on Amarrian hisec taxbase that is a matter for your conscience not ours.
Indeed. |
Jakiin
Amarr
Khanid Provincial Vanguard |
Posted - 2009.11.23 20:10:00 - [ 64]
Originally by: Gaven Lok'ri
We do not need to be pure or just if it gets in the way of winning this war.
Practicality over ideals? Well then I suppose there's not much point in discussing this with you. You seem to have lost sight of the Truth, Mr. Lok'ri, and what it means. Until you decide that the truth is worth knowing then there's nothing we can discuss. |
Theophilas
Amarr
Broski Enterprises
Elite Space Guild |
Posted - 2009.11.23 20:27:00 - [ 65]
Jakiin, you've come here in the last two weeks and have accused decorated pilots of somehow being philosophically unfaithful to the Empire which they have served so long. So I have to ask what gives you the right? You have some brass balls on you worm. I have no stomach for your pacifist coward opinions, but as long as they don't tread upon the Amarrian Faith, so be it, but you attack good men, and I advise you now, rethink your allegiances.
|
Garst Tyrell
No.Mercy
Merciless. |
Posted - 2009.11.23 20:39:00 - [ 66]
Originally by: Theophilas
The tactics we are using currently are in direct response to SF war deccing our 24th crusade corps. If they simply joined the minner militia all of this could be avoided, but they have said they aren't going to, thus No Mercy is there to combat them.
This is a temporary situation until SF stops involving themselves in things which do not concern them. Once the crusade has been won, and SF stand down, then any "crimes" will be addressed. Until then, stop. Enough has been said already about this issue.
Negative, while your enthusiasm is appreciated, No.Mercy was and is not dedicated to fighting the anarchists, they are no different then any other wardec we are forced to respond to except that they provide a bit in the comic relief department. As I reaffirmed in the opening post, No.Mercy is dedicated to defending the Empire against the treacherous advances of the Tyrant and his 'Republic'. |
Jakiin
Amarr
Khanid Provincial Vanguard |
Posted - 2009.11.23 20:58:00 - [ 67]
Originally by: Theophilas
Jakiin, you've come here in the last two weeks and have accused decorated pilots of somehow being philosophically unfaithful to the Empire which they have served so long. So I have to ask what gives you the right? You have some brass balls on you worm. I have no stomach for your pacifist coward opinions, but as long as they don't tread upon the Amarrian Faith, so be it, but you attack good men, and I advise you now, rethink your allegiances.
Actually I've been here for quite a bit longer than two weeks, it's just that the only time I've been vocal on an important matter was in the past two weeks. What gives me the right? I am capable of forming questions, I am capable of curiosity and I have the desire to find the truth. Out of curiosity, by 'good men' do you refer to Garst Tyrell or PIE? PIE, perhaps, I do have a great deal of respect for them and I'm not too fond of the fact that they seem to be taking undue amounts of flak (Though there is I believe some flak due) for not gracing the public with the truth. Garst Tyrell and No.Mercy? They've never tried to defend themselves, they've yet to do anything to prove their innocence, and in fact this whole thread was started by Mr. Tyrell spouting off a bunch of rhetoric in lieu of a real answer. The evidence against them is piling up high and the evidence for them is yet to be seen, so personally I think they deserve whatever it is they receive from this. My allegiances I'm beyond questioning. I am loyal first to God, Him that is the creator of all. Second to the Kingdom, that which raised and sheltered me. Third to the King, who created the Kingdom and has guarded it against those who would destroy it. Where does the Empire and its servants come in? Quite far behind, really. As a fellow Amarr Territory it ranks above the State by a few degrees, but the Empire is just an ally. Do not seek to play on my loyalties in this, you'll just waste your breath. |
Theophilas
Amarr
Broski Enterprises
Elite Space Guild |
Posted - 2009.11.23 21:00:00 - [ 68]
Originally by: Garst Tyrell
Originally by: Theophilas
The tactics we are using currently are in direct response to SF war deccing our 24th crusade corps. If they simply joined the minner militia all of this could be avoided, but they have said they aren't going to, thus No Mercy is there to combat them.
This is a temporary situation until SF stops involving themselves in things which do not concern them. Once the crusade has been won, and SF stand down, then any "crimes" will be addressed. Until then, stop. Enough has been said already about this issue.
Negative, while your enthusiasm is appreciated, No.Mercy was and is not dedicated to fighting the anarchists, they are no different then any other wardec we are forced to respond to except that they provide a bit in the comic relief department. As I reaffirmed in the opening post, No.Mercy is dedicated to defending the Empire against the treacherous advances of the Tyrant and his 'Republic'.
Meh, this is merely semantics IMO. It was No Mercy that began to go GCC to attack SF, and others in the 24th followed suit. Whether it was in your corporate mission or not, it was still you who led the charge. Any misdeeds you may have committed I view as merely a corollary to this type of change in engagement of enemy fleets, in that, wherever and however they come after us, we engage as one. And regardless of any of this, Amarr remains united... and nothing is going to change that. |
Bomberlocks
Minmatar
CTRL-Q |
Posted - 2009.11.24 00:58:00 - [ 69]
1. Mr. Tyrell will not be held accountable for his actions. In the Amarr militia, the end justifies the means, it seems, given the statements by Mr. Theophilas and Mr. Tyrell.
2. If the Amarr militia wish to trust someone like Mr. Tyrell who is so obviously incapable of admitting his actions, who instead either makes mouth-frothing fanatical speeches or lies in the face of his very own words as posted on his private comms, then I think the Tribes wish them the best of luck. They're going to need it.
3. Our universe, and especially the class of capsuleers is filled with people with big egos and ambitions. Neither of those are especially conducive to a coherent, well fought campaign, since both of those tend to get in the way of clear thinking. I used to have great respect for the Amarr militia's strategic thinking. This whole theatrical episode has brought that respect to a much lower level.
4. This comic opera has led to the Amarr militia at once proclaiming its unity and at the same time accusing general supporters of their cause of treason and attacking neutral civilian locations in their own supposedly secure Empire space. I'm not too sure that you are aware of this contradiction and its possible consequences. Be that as it may, you make your own bed and you must lie in it.
5. Mr. Tyrell, in ages past, tyrannical planetary regimes would use very similar language to that which you did in your opening act of this piece of theatre. Words like subhuman, boot-heel, stomping and total war come to mind when thinking about those, in retrospect petty dictatorships now long gone. You may wish that your God win, but I think that history will repeat itself first. ;-)
6. The phrase "when the crusade has won" was mentioned in one of the acts, part II, I think. There are some minor problems for the Amarr militia to contend with in view of that goal. Firstly, in 700 years of total domination and slavery, the Amarr could not break the strength or identity of the tribes. What makes you think that you will be able to change that? Secondly, the capsuleer class, the people who are fighting this war, are for all intents and purposes immortal. You cannot kill us, and we cannot kill you. The only thing that changes is the tide of the war, and like all tides it ebbs and rises. If there is ever anything close to a winner in this war, it will be the one who is willing to hold out the longest.
We've been doing this for 800 years. |
Sepherim
Amarr
Ordo Quaesitoris
Ordo Magna |
Posted - 2009.11.24 02:13:00 - [ 70]
Originally by: ChipMo
Originally by: Gaven Lok'ri
I bolded the correct part for you. Pod pilots are not Amarrian Civilians.
Why not?
I feel like I've said it a thousand times these couple weeks. Pod pilots are not part of their original nations, they are under direct responsability to CONCORD. We are independant from all States, Kingdoms, Federations, Republics, or Empires. That we choose to defend the Empire is a decision we take, but doesn't bind us to their laws or make us member of said Empires. So, all pod pilots are not civilians of any nation. |
Damon Steele |
Posted - 2009.11.24 02:20:00 - [ 71]
Bomberlocks' Employment history:
TLF for less than one day.
Jericho fraction from 11.18.2009 17:43 until 11.21.2009 13:56 until it was decided he was more effective as a propaganda tool outside of JF where he will speak 'for the Tribes' instead of the Fraction
Credibility: Zero
|
Sepherim
Amarr
Ordo Quaesitoris
Ordo Magna |
Posted - 2009.11.24 02:20:00 - [ 72]
Originally by: Jakiin
Actually I've been here for quite a bit longer than two weeks, it's just that the only time I've been vocal on an important matter was in the past two weeks.
What gives me the right? I am capable of forming questions, I am capable of curiosity and I have the desire to find the truth. Out of curiosity, by 'good men' do you refer to Garst Tyrell or PIE?
PIE, perhaps, I do have a great deal of respect for them and I'm not too fond of the fact that they seem to be taking undue amounts of flak (Though there is I believe some flak due) for not gracing the public with the truth.
Garst Tyrell and No.Mercy? They've never tried to defend themselves, they've yet to do anything to prove their innocence, and in fact this whole thread was started by Mr. Tyrell spouting off a bunch of rhetoric in lieu of a real answer. The evidence against them is piling up high and the evidence for them is yet to be seen, so personally I think they deserve whatever it is they receive from this.
My allegiances I'm beyond questioning. I am loyal first to God, Him that is the creator of all. Second to the Kingdom, that which raised and sheltered me. Third to the King, who created the Kingdom and has guarded it against those who would destroy it. Where does the Empire and its servants come in?
Quite far behind, really. As a fellow Amarr Territory it ranks above the State by a few degrees, but the Empire is just an ally. Do not seek to play on my loyalties in this, you'll just waste your breath.
I've been asking questions in these chambers far longer than you have, trying to seek out the truth in every turn of history. And believe me, being capable of asking questions gives you right to nothing. To have the right to ask questions, and receive answers, you first have to earn it. And to do so you have to prove to be responsible, both with your quest for truth, and what you do with that information. And it is sad to say, but you have proven to be completely irresponsible. You have lost the credibility you needed for your quest, because you became politically implicated in the cause without truth on your hand. You chose a position before knowing all facts, and demanded an action to which you had no power to enact nor, really, demand. Truth requires the correct questions. And you have mistaken yours. If you are true to your quest, you should meditate on this whole affair and your position about it. At least if you want to have a minimum chance of saving your position and, in time, retake the path of the questionmaker. |
Bomberlocks
Minmatar
CTRL-Q |
Posted - 2009.11.24 02:31:00 - [ 73]
Originally by: Damon Steele
Bomberlocks' Employment history:
TLF for less than one day.
Jericho fraction from 11.18.2009 17:43 until 11.21.2009 13:56 until it was decided he was more effective as a propaganda tool outside of JF where he will speak 'for the Tribes' instead of the Fraction
Credibility: Zero
17 Minutes earlier: Originally by: Sophia Victor
Bomberlocks' Employment history:
TLF for less than one day.
Jericho fraction from 11.18.2009 17:43 until 11.21.2009 13:56 until it was decided he was more effective as a propaganda tool outside of JF.
Credibility: Zero.
So, if your own ability to formulate your own opinion is so feeble you resort to copy and paste? My response remains the same: My affiliation with, support of and attraction to the ideology of The Star Fraction are not exactly a secret, Miss Victor and Mr. Steele. I fully support the concept of free space and individual destiny. I am a man of the Brutor Tribe of the Minmatar people, and when* I can I fight for the freedom of ALL of our people. That does not rob me of my ability to voice my own opinion. |
Sophia Victor |
Posted - 2009.11.24 02:56:00 - [ 74]
I wonder how many other fake identities I can assume to 'just' put out 'unique opinions'
Perhaps after seeing such ridiculousness shot back at you, you will take a look in the mirror and genuinely wonder if these charades fool anyone. |
Bomberlocks
Minmatar
CTRL-Q |
Posted - 2009.11.24 03:03:00 - [ 75]
Originally by: Sepherim
....
I've been asking questions in these chambers far longer than you have, trying to seek out the truth in every turn of history. And believe me, being capable of asking questions gives you right to nothing.
Your first mistake: It gives him the right to ask questions. There is no way that you, your God, your Empress, your militia or anyone else can stop him from asking questions. Your only right is to not give any answers. Quote:
To have the right to ask questions, and receive answers, you first have to earn it.
And to do so you have to prove to be responsible, both with your quest for truth, and what you do with that information.
In your eyes perhaps. Quote:
And it is sad to say, but you have proven to be completely irresponsible. You have lost the credibility you needed for your quest, because you became politically implicated in the cause without truth on your hand. You chose a position before knowing all facts, and demanded an action to which you had no power to enact nor, really, demand.
Now, this is complete and utter rubbish. The facts were posted by an infiltrator to Mr. Tyrell's corporation. You have the right to refuse an answer, but you cannot stop him from asking questions. Quote:
Truth requires the correct questions. And you have mistaken yours. If you are true to your quest, you should meditate on this whole affair and your position about it. At least if you want to have a minimum chance of saving your position and, in time, retake the path of the question maker(sic).
You Amarr seem to have a real problem with letting people voice their own opinions. Free yourselves of that fear. I point you towards the ideology of those you so despise, The Star Fraction: The whole concept and basis of the ideology of the Star Fraction is based on individual freedom. As capsuleers, we are bound to no one. We cannot die unless we choose to. We are transhuman. The empires are like the dusty cobwebs of an ancient social construct that no longer works. That is the strength behind the unity that is the Star Fraction. We can come and go as we please, and our opinions are valued, even if they are not always comfortable. That is freedom. And that is what I want for my people, that they can make their own choices, even if they are bad ones. You Amarr waste so much of your energy trying to force others to your will, yet you fail to see that their will is like water sliding through the gaps between your fingers. You cannot fight the entropy that is life and the destiny of the universe. You can only dam it for short periods by sheer brute force, and even then, you only increase the pressure behind those walls of servile monotony, instead of allowing the creation of life to grow like a flower in the light of all our thousands of suns. |
Bomberlocks
Minmatar
CTRL-Q |
Posted - 2009.11.24 03:08:00 - [ 76]
Originally by: Sophia Victor
I wonder how many other fake identities I can assume to 'just' put out 'unique opinions'
Perhaps after seeing such ridiculousness shot back at you, you will take a look in the mirror and genuinely wonder if these charades fool anyone.
I beg your pardon? Are you now accusing me of being Mr. Jakiin? I don't know if I understand you correctly, but that level of paranoia takes some mastering to achieve. I salute you, Miss Victor. You are single-handedly sowing more fear, uncertainty and doubt amongst your own people than we could ever do. |
Sophia Victor |
Posted - 2009.11.24 04:39:00 - [ 77]
Originally by: Bomberlocks
Originally by: Sophia Victor
I wonder how many other fake identities I can assume to 'just' put out 'unique opinions'
Perhaps after seeing such ridiculousness shot back at you, you will take a look in the mirror and genuinely wonder if these charades fool anyone.
I beg your pardon? Are you now accusing me of being Mr. Jakiin? I don't know if I understand you correctly, but that level of paranoia takes some mastering to achieve.
I salute you, Miss Victor. You are single-handedly sowing more fear, uncertainty and doubt amongst your own people than we could ever do.
Allow me to clarify. The 'you' was directed to the readers in general, not specifically to you. Poorly worded on my part. |
Bomberlocks
Minmatar
CTRL-Q |
Posted - 2009.11.24 11:13:00 - [ 78]
Originally by: Sophia Victor
Originally by: Bomberlocks
Originally by: Sophia Victor
I wonder how many other fake identities I can assume to 'just' put out 'unique opinions'
Perhaps after seeing such ridiculousness shot back at you, you will take a look in the mirror and genuinely wonder if these charades fool anyone.
I beg your pardon? Are you now accusing me of being Mr. Jakiin? I don't know if I understand you correctly, but that level of paranoia takes some mastering to achieve.
I salute you, Miss Victor. You are single-handedly sowing more fear, uncertainty and doubt amongst your own people than we could ever do.
Allow me to clarify. The 'you' was directed to the readers in general, not specifically to you. Poorly worded on my part.
So who has a fake identity, then? Me? I would dearly love to know how you come to such a conclusion? Because I was in SF for a couple of days? I already pointed out to you what is common knowledge. If you can't or won't read, I can't help you. Mr. Jakiin? And who exactly would he be a fake identity of? Someone from the Star Fraction? Again, if you had bothered to do a few minutes of researching and reading you would have noted that he has consistently written of his negative opinion of the Fraction. But why am I bothering with this? If you Amarr want to fight amongst yourselves, then who am I to stop you. |
Al'Gouhti
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction |
Posted - 2009.11.24 13:13:00 - [ 79]
Originally by: Garst Tyrell
Negative, while your enthusiasm is appreciated, No.Mercy was and is not dedicated to fighting the anarchists, they are no different then any other wardec we are forced to respond to except that they provide a bit in the comic relief department. As I reaffirmed in the opening post, No.Mercy is dedicated to defending the Empire against the treacherous advances of the Tyrant and his 'Republic'.[/quote
Calling your enemy a tyrant while Fighting for a régime founded on subjugation and enslavement of socalled lesser beeings is just hilarious. |
Lucius Vindictus
Amarr
East Khanid Trading
Khanid Trade Syndicate |
Posted - 2009.11.24 16:01:00 - [ 80]
Originally by: Al'Gouhti
Originally by: Garst Tyrell
Negative, while your enthusiasm is appreciated, No.Mercy was and is not dedicated to fighting the anarchists, they are no different then any other wardec we are forced to respond to except that they provide a bit in the comic relief department. As I reaffirmed in the opening post, No.Mercy is dedicated to defending the Empire against the treacherous advances of the Tyrant and his 'Republic'.[/quote
Calling your enemy a tyrant while Fighting for a régime founded on subjugation and enslavement of socalled lesser beeings is just hilarious.
We both fight for our own totalitarian regimes, yes that makes you too. I just prefer the "tyrant" that speaks Amarrian. |
Bomberlocks
Minmatar
CTRL-Q |
Posted - 2009.11.24 17:50:00 - [ 81]
Edited by: Bomberlocks on 24/11/2009 17:51:24 Originally by: Lucius Vindictus
...
We both fight for our own totalitarian regimes, yes that makes you too. I just prefer the "tyrant" that speaks Amarrian.
You Amarr constantly refer to Maleator Shakor as being a tyrant (when you're not going on about crushing things beneath boot heels, total war and subhumans), yet you offer no conclusive (or even vague, for that matter) evidence that he is in fact a tyrant. If he were a tyrant, would we not be forced to do his bidding? Would not any dissent or opposing opinion be suppressed? Do you think that there would even be an argument or discussion on Professor Gorras' research, for example? Do you really think that freed Minmatar would so readily return home if they were simply exchanging one tyrant for another? Please enlighten me. How is Maleator Shakor a tyrant? |
Gaven Lok'ri
Amarr
PIE Inc.
|
Posted - 2009.11.24 19:36:00 - [ 82]
Quote:
PIE, perhaps, I do have a great deal of respect for them and I'm not too fond of the fact that they seem to be taking undue amounts of flak (Though there is I believe some flak due) for not gracing the public with the truth.
When you make a thread titled the failure of PIE inc, you really lose all right to this argument. Originally by: Jakiin
Originally by: Gaven Lok'ri
We do not need to be pure or just if it gets in the way of winning this war.
Practicality over ideals? Well then I suppose there's not much point in discussing this with you. You seem to have lost sight of the Truth, Mr. Lok'ri, and what it means. Until you decide that the truth is worth knowing then there's nothing we can discuss.
No. Lives of Pure Amarrian Civilians over the money of "immortal" and already corrupted by the very act of being cloned Pod Pilots. Do not try to twist my words to say what they do not say, would-be-demagogue. |
Jade Constantine
Gallente
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction |
Posted - 2009.11.24 20:18:00 - [ 83]
Originally by: Gaven Lok'ri
No. Lives of Pure Amarrian Civilians over the money of "immortal" and already corrupted by the very act of being cloned Pod Pilots. Do not try to twist my words to say what they do not say, would-be-demagogue.
Are you suggesting that since Capsule pilots are already "corrupted" by the act of being capsule pilots that they are incapable of being "pirated" or "ransomed" by your allies? I'm trying to understand if this is all a complicated way of declaring that PIE Inc. is now going NBSI to be honest. |
Al'Gouhti
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction |
Posted - 2009.11.24 20:56:00 - [ 84]
Originally by: Lucius Vindictus
We both fight for our own totalitarian regimes, yes that makes you too. I just prefer the "tyrant" that speaks Amarrian.
please enlighten me, what totalitarian regime I am fighting for? If you say the Minmatar Republic then you are wrong. I am an anarchist I fight to liberate people so they can crasp there freedom that is rightfully theres. And that is what my support to the TLF is founded on, not the preservation of another space claiming entity. |
Jakiin
Amarr
Khanid Provincial Vanguard |
Posted - 2009.11.24 22:04:00 - [ 85]
Originally by: Sepherim
I've been asking questions in these chambers far longer than you have, trying to seek out the truth in every turn of history. And believe me, being capable of asking questions gives you right to nothing.
To have the right to ask questions, and receive answers, you first have to earn it. And to do so you have to prove to be responsible, both with your quest for truth, and what you do with that information.
I am sorry, should I wait for you, oh most high, to give me the right? Should I wait for you to tell me when I have become responsible? I have the right to do anything I wish so long as it does not conflict with the interests of those above me. In these Galnet forums the only ones above me are the moderators, and they have a policy of free speech. Were I asking these questions in your Empire, I may not have the right. But here I have every right to question to morals of another corporation, and try as you might to claim that is not so I will use those rights. You do not really ask whether I have the right, you ask whether I have the wisdom. But that' another discussion. Quote:
And it is sad to say, but you have proven to be completely irresponsible. You have lost the credibility you needed for your quest, because you became politically implicated in the cause without truth on your hand. You chose a position before knowing all facts, and demanded an action to which you had no power to enact nor, really, demand.
Did you read ANYTHING I said? My position was "Find the facts." That was it. I never said that Garst Tyrell was guilty or innocent. I may have pointed out that the evidence was against him, but at no point did I claim to know the verdict. You are confusing my writings with the writings of the enemies of Faith, such as Ushra'Khan or the Fractioneers. Quote:
Truth requires the correct questions. And you have mistaken yours. If you are true to your quest, you should meditate on this whole affair and your position about it. At least if you want to have a minimum chance of saving your position and, in time, retake the path of the questionmaker.
I knew that this would make me unpopular with a good deal of people. I know that I have made far more enemies than I have friends. But I have kept to my ideals, I have valued morals over my own desires, and because of that I believe I have been passing my Test. I will not fail it now simply so I can regain some popularity. |
Jakiin
Amarr
Khanid Provincial Vanguard |
Posted - 2009.11.24 22:12:00 - [ 86]
Edited by: Jakiin on 24/11/2009 22:13:20 Originally by: Gaven Lok'ri
When you make a thread titled the failure of PIE inc, you really lose all right to this argument.
Originally by: Jakiin
I claim that PIE failed in exposing the truth one way or another. They still have my respect, and they still have my prayers, but in this aspect alone I believe they have failed.
My stance on PIE has been stated. Believe it or not. Quote:
No. Lives of Pure Amarrian Civilians over the money of "immortal" and already corrupted by the very act of being cloned Pod Pilots.
Do not try to twist my words to say what they do not say, would-be-demagogue.
Attacking neutral parties for resources is piracy. Here you are saying that it is alright to pirate so long as the baseline Amarrians are not hurt? What about the baselines which worked those stations? Is it alright to kill those who did us no harm simply to further our own means? I do not believe so. |
Eran Mintor
Minmatar
Knighthood of the Merciful Crown
|
Posted - 2009.11.25 00:04:00 - [ 87]
Originally by: Theophilas
Originally by: Jade Constantine
Okay, then I accept your clear statement that direct pressure from Star Fraction against the 24th Crusade has caused certain 24th Crusaders to pillage and despoil their "backyard" to gain isk and war-material to continue the fight. I accept your word that No.Mercy will stand trial for their crimes after the war is over. (Not that I expect that will be much comfort for the victims of Garst Tyrell's aggression mind.)
Still from our part War continues and if the 24th Crusade feel obliged to sustain themselves by despoiling and predating on Amarrian hisec taxbase that is a matter for your conscience not ours.
Indeed.
*Eran is speechless. A hand covers his mouth and the edges of his lips can be seen quivering. A pinch of laughter seeps out before he finally removes his hand from his face*So...finally the hypocrites begin their step towards redemption. Will more hypocrites be so willing to admit their faults in public as you and Garst have? I doubt it. This guilt is not the concern of the public but your own rotten selves, who claimed to be righteous followers of god and your Amarrian creed but have shown through word and action to be liars. When you are judged before god, you will incite more pain and suffering upon you in the after-life than you could possibly endure in this physical world for acting so selfishly. It would be wise for Amarrians claiming to be loyal to the Amarrian faith to follow their own creed first before claiming it is the best for everyone. It would also be wise for Believers to distance themselves from such hypocrites... *Eran chuckles a bit more before letting out a sigh and reclining in his seat*I really have no more to say...I will continue to watch this circus with interest...I haven't had this much entertainment since the first time I stepped foot in a wormhole. |
Jade Constantine
Gallente
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction |
Posted - 2009.11.25 02:00:00 - [ 88]
Edited by: Jade Constantine on 25/11/2009 02:01:13 Originally by: Damon Steele
Bomberlocks' Employment history:
TLF for less than one day.
Jericho fraction from 11.18.2009 17:43 until 11.21.2009 13:56 until it was decided he was more effective as a propaganda tool outside of JF where he will speak 'for the Tribes' instead of the Fraction
Credibility: Zero
What confuses me about the people who seem to think Star Fraction "need" false identities backing our arguments is the degree to which we're already making significant and cutting arguments with our own words - why would we need to employ shills and false-flag commentators to support our debate when we are already ripping the Amarrians to shreds in our own name? You defy all logic mr "Steele". Reality is that only the Amarrian bloc need mercenary clonejack support in this "warzone". |
Sepherim
Amarr
Ordo Quaesitoris
Ordo Magna |
Posted - 2009.11.25 02:27:00 - [ 89]
Originally by: Jakiin
I am sorry, should I wait for you, oh most high, to give me the right? Should I wait for you to tell me when I have become responsible?
I have the right to do anything I wish so long as it does not conflict with the interests of those above me. In these Galnet forums the only ones above me are the moderators, and they have a policy of free speech. Were I asking these questions in your Empire, I may not have the right. But here I have every right to question to morals of another corporation, and try as you might to claim that is not so I will use those rights.
Now, please, Mr Jakiin, point in my words in what moment did I say I have the power to give you such a right. Or anyone specific, for it. You listen to the words, but you do not hear the message. Rights are granted, usually by different forms of government, thanks to their legitimacy to such a power. In these forums, and in anywhere in galnet or space, such a right is not granted by CONCORD, which remains neutral, but on the community as a whole. If the whole of the community remains silent, for example, the fact that you ask a question to the nothingness is meaningless. Thus, you effectively lack the right to do such questions in such a case. It has nothing to do with the Empire, the problems at hand, or any other specific issue, but on collective perception. Quote:
You do not really ask whether I have the right, you ask whether I have the wisdom. But that' another discussion.
In fact, which is rather strange in me, I didn't ask. It is easy to note due to the fact that my text lacks any question mark. In fact, I wasn't even judging you or your words. I was explaining how things work most of the time, or at least how I see them. And, indeed, in the end wisdom and responsability go hand in hand. To ask is to wield power, and such a power is never granted freely to anyone. States don't do so, nor do collectives of people. They need to know that the question will be used with wisdom, and in this is where you have to learn. For you have proven to act irresponsibly with such a power. Quote:
Did you read ANYTHING I said? My position was "Find the facts." That was it. I never said that Garst Tyrell was guilty or innocent. I may have pointed out that the evidence was against him, but at no point did I claim to know the verdict. You are confusing my writings with the writings of the enemies of Faith, such as Ushra'Khan or the Fractioneers.
I've read everything that was said, on this whole issue, in all the topics written. But you've said much more than "find the facts": not only did you vocally ask of others to act, but in the end you took a position. Losing neutrality without proofs, without knowledge, without answer, is useless in a true quest for knowledge. I say know, and ask questions on your own, then act accordingly. That is a responsible way of acting. A wise way. And, in time, will give you a voice that others will listen to, and a voice they will reply to. Quote:
I knew that this would make me unpopular with a good deal of people. I know that I have made far more enemies than I have friends. But I have kept to my ideals, I have valued morals over my own desires, and because of that I believe I have been passing my Test. I will not fail it now simply so I can regain some popularity.
No, Mr Jakiin, you've failed the test. First, because knowledge doesn't exist in a social vacuum, so even if you had attained it (which seems like you haven't) you lost all possibility of using it. Second, because answers and their power deserve a proper respect, and are a goal in itself, true, but they don't justify placing oneself over the others; sometimes we need to sacrifice things in order for greater goods to come. Maybe it would have been as simple as to adress this concerns in private, or formulating them in a different manner, or many other approaches. In the end, even if you attain the truth, it will be useless. |
Sepherim
Amarr
Ordo Quaesitoris
Ordo Magna |
Posted - 2009.11.25 02:35:00 - [ 90]
I'll skip most of the text, for either empty or addressed above. Originally by: Bomberlocks
Now, this is complete and utter rubbish. The facts were posted by an infiltrator to Mr. Tyrell's corporation. You have the right to refuse an answer, but you cannot stop him from asking questions.
As I've said, the message had nothing to do with No.Mercy. It had to do with the one thing I value the most after the Empire: asking questions. Doesn't matter if those questions were about No.Mercy or the last match of Hedion's Worshippers vs Nebian's Paladins. You will probably find no mention of either of those two in my text. So, next time, please read carefully what people say, instead of wasting your and our time. Quote:
You Amarr seem to have a real problem with letting people voice their own opinions. Free yourselves of that fear. I point you towards the ideology of those you so despise, The Star Fraction: The whole concept and basis of the ideology of the Star Fraction is based on individual freedom. As capsuleers, we are bound to no one. We cannot die unless we choose to. We are transhuman. The empires are like the dusty cobwebs of an ancient social construct that no longer works.
That is the strength behind the unity that is the Star Fraction. We can come and go as we please, and our opinions are valued, even if they are not always comfortable. That is freedom. And that is what I want for my people, that they can make their own choices, even if they are bad ones. You Amarr waste so much of your energy trying to force others to your will, yet you fail to see that their will is like water sliding through the gaps between your fingers. You cannot fight the entropy that is life and the destiny of the universe. You can only dam it for short periods by sheer brute force, and even then, you only increase the pressure behind those walls of servile monotony, instead of allowing the creation of life to grow like a flower in the light of all our thousands of suns.
Leaving all the meaning of what a transhuman is and all that refers to it, as it is a subject that I've discussed many times already, I never said "don't ask questions". Did I? I said "ask them right". Did I say, "don't think or act as you want"? No, I said, "if you don't act responsibly you will attain nothing". Did I say "don't choose"? No, I said "know that if you choose wrongly you may be losing all that you say you search for". Now, please, Mr Bomberlocks, next time you wish to address anything I say, please at least take the needed time to read it. And when you do, don't project what you think I, as a "terrible slaver believer in a false God", am saying, but listen to what I am saying in fact. I'm sure it will prevent many discussions, and problems from arising. |
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