| Author |
Topic |
Mera Lehbo |
Posted - 2009.11.23 06:28:00 - [ 1591]
At this point Dominion is going to contain absolutely nothing for revitalizing 0.0. The massive HP of the sov structures combined with a maximum two-hour variance in reinforcement timers ensure that the status quo sov holders will not be threatened at all. The upgrades to individual income are underwhelming and none of them out-earn L4 missions, which will draw zero new players to nullsec. In addition, making upkeep a direct isk sink instead of something fueled by player-mined ice will ensure a deflationary flow of isk out of nullsec instead of into it.
And now almost all of the promised ship changes, from assault frigates to motherships, have been rolled back, and titans are apparently being reclassified as "super-logistics" ships enjoying no significant turret capabilities, which will only further cement the current "bring more dreads = win" stagnancy of major fleet fights. The only major ship changes that have stuck are the pirate faction ships which won't affect fleet warfare in 0.0 since their expense means they'll only be used as expensive solo or PvE toys.
Most of the remaining significant changes won't affect nullsec at all, giving the lie to the title of the expansion back. In addition, many of these changes are being announced, radically altered, re-announced, and presented for user feedback mere weeks before the scheduled release of Dominion. One would be forgiven by looking at the level of detail presented that the devs spent the past year obsessing over the rendering of Caldari Prime while procrastinating on the nitty-gritty mechanics of fleet warfare and the nullsec sov system.
The visible uncertainty with which they have approached this expansion pack is a telling sign of a rushed development process. Rather than release an incomplete expansion which would severely harm the game and discourage their subscriber base, CCP should bite the bullet and delay the expansion pack until more of the promised game changes can be implemented. |
Ranger 1
Amarr
Ranger Corp
|
Posted - 2009.11.23 06:55:00 - [ 1592]
 Originally by: Mera Lehbo
At this point Dominion is going to contain absolutely nothing for revitalizing 0.0. The massive HP of the sov structures combined with a maximum two-hour variance in reinforcement timers ensure that the status quo sov holders will not be threatened at all. The upgrades to individual income are underwhelming and none of them out-earn L4 missions, which will draw zero new players to nullsec. In addition, making upkeep a direct isk sink instead of something fueled by player-mined ice will ensure a deflationary flow of isk out of nullsec instead of into it.
I partially agree with one part of this. I do agree that the 2 hour timer puts to much advantage to the defender to hold SOV, and I would prefer a 3 or 4 hour varience to add a proper element of chance. Perhaps the current reasoning is that SOV will be easier to defend, while maintaining the upgrades in a system will be more difficult to maintain and easier for small groups to disrupt. The HP value of SOV structures does not bother me, compared with the massive amount of damage that has to be dealt to clear a system of POS's currently. Adding up to 20 high end anomalies to a system is a huge infusion of isk to the average null sec income over current levels, vastly outpacing the outlay of upkeep paid to keep those systems upgraded and in SOV. A 10% tax on the income generated by just one anomaly pays for the most expensive level of upkeep you might pay. Originally by: Mera Lehbo
And now almost all of the promised ship changes, from assault frigates to motherships, have been rolled back, and titans are apparently being reclassified as "super-logistics" ships enjoying no significant turret capabilities, which will only further cement the current "bring more dreads = win" stagnancy of major fleet fights. The only major ship changes that have stuck are the pirate faction ships which won't affect fleet warfare in 0.0 since their expense means they'll only be used as expensive solo or PvE toys.
Assault Frigate and Mothership changes are the only parts that have been delayed, hardly "almost all". I'm not 100% behind the direction Titans are taking, but the DD change was a step in the right direciton. We'll have to see where they go from here. Pirate faction ship changes are not the only ship changes that take place in Dominion. Originally by: Mera Lehbo
Most of the remaining significant changes won't affect nullsec at all, giving the lie to the title of the expansion back. In addition, many of these changes are being announced, radically altered, re-announced, and presented for user feedback mere weeks before the scheduled release of Dominion. One would be forgiven by looking at the level of detail presented that the devs spent the past year obsessing over the rendering of Caldari Prime while procrastinating on the nitty-gritty mechanics of fleet warfare and the nullsec sov system.
Different groups work on different aspects of the game. You know this. Originally by: Mera Lehbo
The visible uncertainty with which they have approached this expansion pack is a telling sign of a rushed development process. Rather than release an incomplete expansion which would severely harm the game and discourage their subscriber base, CCP should bite the bullet and delay the expansion pack until more of the promised game changes can be implemented.
I agree that the development process appears rushed on certain aspects of this release, but they have deadlines to achieve like any other gaming software company. Late changes in the development process are not uncommon in EVE, or with any other major player in the gaming software industry. Since we have more input in the testing process than most consumers enjoy, it is more apparent to us when this is the case. Since the bulk of this expansion if in relatively good shape, it should be released on time unless other problems arise which we may be unaware of. Just don't dilly dally on the rest. |
Mera Lehbo |
Posted - 2009.11.23 07:25:00 - [ 1593]
By ship changes I'm not just referring to hull classes. For instance, if you're a Minmatar pilot, the projectile weapons buff as envisioned by CCP is depressingly minor and does nothing to address the major issues of large artillery (fitting and tracking), and the capital weapons changes now mean that Naglfar pilots must train yet another skill (cruises) to 5 in order to get the full benefit of their ship even though its bonuses are being reverted back into irrelevance. |
Ranger 1
Amarr
Ranger Corp
|
Posted - 2009.11.23 07:37:00 - [ 1594]
Edited by: Ranger 1 on 23/11/2009 07:39:10 Originally by: Mera Lehbo
By ship changes I'm not just referring to hull classes. For instance, if you're a Minmatar pilot, the projectile weapons buff as envisioned by CCP is depressingly minor and does nothing to address the major issues of large artillery (fitting and tracking), and the capital weapons changes now mean that Naglfar pilots must train yet another skill (cruises) to 5 in order to get the full benefit of their ship even though its bonuses are being reverted back into irrelevance.
On the Nag, I agree they should have tweaked the current bonus arrangement rather than gone back to the old split weapon bonus. That being said we will have to see how the new projectile/ammo changes pan out, and that includes the Nag with the added wrinkle of a new weapons system and missile tweaks. That's beside the point however. You argued that almost all of the ship changes had been rolled back. I'm pointing out that that is not the case. Changes that you don't necessarily agree with do not equal "rolled back", and changes to 2 specific ship classes, projectile weapon balancing and the Nags bonus certainly do not add up to "almost all" of the ship changes in Dominion. |
Gnulpie
Minmatar
Miner Tech |
Posted - 2009.11.23 08:21:00 - [ 1595]
Edited by: Gnulpie on 23/11/2009 08:22:40
So, let's see ...
Weeks and months of feedback from the test server, a really good pack of carriers, supercarriers and titans together with capital weapons, fighters and fighter bombers achieved. Then CCP suddenly thinks 'oh my oh my ... overpowered if they use it as remote repair blob' and then they say 'uh oh, no good, let us cancel ALL achivements' after 2 weeks of nonsens fiddelling around (docking moms, everyone? lol). So why not doing the first best thing and reduce remote rep capabilities on those supercarriers if you fear a rr blob?
Instead all capital weapon systems get changed under assumptions which are all invalid (long range cap battles, target painting etc.) and the motherhsip is reverted but the titan changes go through. Hello? Anyone there??
And what is going on here anyway?
Thousands of really worried and upset player posts pointing out over and over again what is wrong with these changes and what we got? 1 irreal reply from nozh (and his team?) and one off-topic damage control post from hammerhead. That's all?
So I ask again and will ask again and again: WHERE ARE THE NUMBERS???
Can we please, PLEASE have some NUMBERS? All stats and values of those new weapons and ammo. And please no more graphs, just the weapons and the numbers. And the ships and changes in boni.
A final note on the naglfar. It was said that the nag would have been a monster if unchanged. So what? The dps would have been a bit more than the average dread but still it would have had the weakest tank by far! Trading dps for tank seems only totally in order.
You just can't pick ONE property of the ship (dps) and ignore all other properties (tank, fitting, skills etc.)
And anyway, there was totally no NEED for ANY changes on the caps. The only reason why some changes was necessary was the titan and its weapons, but they are a joke anyway - doing as much damage as a dread but costs 50 times more?
And the current motherhsip are uhm ... yeah ... single shot pop. That can't be right, under no circumstances.
So my suggestion: cancel ALL changes to the caps and supercapitals.
Then work out the remote rep stuff for the moms so that there won't be invincible mothership rr blobs and there you are! |
mkmin |
Posted - 2009.11.23 08:36:00 - [ 1596]
Originally by: Ranger 1
Edited by: Ranger 1 on 23/11/2009 07:39:10
Originally by: Mera Lehbo
By ship changes I'm not just referring to hull classes. For instance, if you're a Minmatar pilot, the projectile weapons buff as envisioned by CCP is depressingly minor and does nothing to address the major issues of large artillery (fitting and tracking), and the capital weapons changes now mean that Naglfar pilots must train yet another skill (cruises) to 5 in order to get the full benefit of their ship even though its bonuses are being reverted back into irrelevance.
On the Nag, I agree they should have tweaked the current bonus arrangement rather than gone back to the old split weapon bonus.
That being said we will have to see how the new projectile/ammo changes pan out, and that includes the Nag with the added wrinkle of a new weapons system and missile tweaks.
That's beside the point however. You argued that almost all of the ship changes had been rolled back. I'm pointing out that that is not the case. Changes that you don't necessarily agree with do not equal "rolled back", and changes to 2 specific ship classes, projectile weapon balancing and the Nags bonus certainly do not add up to "almost all" of the ship changes in Dominion.
The positive ship changes that are supposedly being kept in are things that don't really matter, or are so insignificant to not really matter. A buff to faction ships doesn't matter because the faction ships are already functional. Introducing new faction ships will be a waste because they will be stupidly rare, unless they get handed out like candy. Only FW guys will have a chance of getting them, and the ones that will be in demand, no one will want to work for because that part of FW still hasn't been fixed. Even the new speedboat missions, though good in concept, will probably only be taken advantage of by a vast minority. The mission runners put a lot of work into their empire standings, and I, for one, won't be wrecking mine just for the speedboat missions, even though I absolutely LOVE my ceptor. The fleet finder is one of those things that's good in theory, but really was just a neat toy the devs wanted to work on instead of doing real work. And we get freakin' planets? I'm still waiting for the part where that's exciting. The capital changes? They're replacing something broken with something else broken, if at all, and what's not broken, they're breaking. Only one who comes out ahead on the capitals as far as I can tell is the revelation, but that's only because all the other dreads are getting nerfed. Whoopdie doo. The sov changes? The smaller alliances will push for sov at first, until they realize that the AFK empires can still defend their space while afk. Nerfing some moon mins buffed the others, meaning MORE opportunities for AFK empires to accumulate wealth and capitals, keeping out the smaller alliances. And the infrastructure hubs taking a freighter to deploy? With how deep the unclaimed territory will have to get into 0.0 to put them up? If anything smaller alliances will move to w-space, and avoid 0.0 altogether. Personally, I don't expect an expansion to revolutionize the game. I don't even expect to have input on the game mechanics. I just expect a business to treat their customers well, which I don't think CCP is succeeding at right now. |
Disecador |
Posted - 2009.11.23 09:03:00 - [ 1597]
Originally by: Mera Lehbo
and titans are apparently being reclassified as "super-logistics" ships
They don't - cos Jump portal doesn't improve. With it's current DD rof and turret damage, titans lose it 'anti-blob' function, - only insane will risk titans worth 60+ bill to kill a pair of dreads. By the way, it's intresting to know, how it accords to 'small alliance capability to move 0.0-space', because blob in Dominion will be simply unstoppable. Without another blob. So, say hello to multiple locals 800+ and lags. |
Hiroshima Jita |
Posted - 2009.11.23 09:36:00 - [ 1598]
The problems with having and keeping an 800 man blob are forming the blob out of competent people beforehand by succeding regularly, keeping coherence between the leadership and groups in the blob (no infighting), keeping the blob busy, and making the blob fun compared to doing small roams or pirating.
We blob cosistantly from an concentrated area and it works just fine. Titans are not particularly daunting unless they are backed up by an enemy blob anyway atm. Solo titan started trying to antiblob us there would be cloaky hictors and covops flying all over the place and people xing up with 75+k ehp ships left and right.
Titans are not anti-blob. The difficulty of keeping 800 people together is anti-blob. |
Zargyl
Black Thorne Corporation
Black Thorne Alliance |
Posted - 2009.11.23 09:38:00 - [ 1599]
I am just a PvE player who will probably never be able to fly such a huge ship. Even though that might be the case, when talk comes about these massive city-sized ships that are super-caps even PvE'ers like me do listen. Even if you can’t fly them you surely do ogle at screenshots and like to hear stories told of their might.
So it does come as quite a sad surprise when one looks at some new dev blog this close before release and doesn’t see the motherships we have been looking for. And it does also come as quite a disappointment when confronted with the quality of work put into it as well. Wasn’t the motherships rework communicated as one of the main features of Dominion (besides the Sov changes and the cool UI upgrades)?
As a scientist I am quite happy to see graphs, but graphs with no facts and no insight into the formulae and thoughts behind them are only good to impress kids going to elementary school.
The dev-blog is also contradictory - a fact that has already been pointed out by a myriad of other posters. We are told how vital a role is for the behemoths that are capital ships, but we aren’t told what the role would be. Shouldn’t this be the first thing fixed in a design process and not something that get’s changed days before release?
Graphs for any kind of (scientific or not) model are worthless without insight into what parameters went into them and what assumptions were made. And balancing should be done either by looking at bare stats and not taking modules into account OR by taking modules into account in ALL cases. It looks like that in the considerations presented to us a mix was used. This does create a different set of parameters and you can’t balance values if said values use different variables. And it’s even worse when some parameters entered into your equations (which sadly are not shown) are wrong (like the target painting thingy).
Sadly this is not the Excellency we have been promised by CCP.
I do post this to point out the fact that not only mothership pilots do read this and are affected/disappointed in the quality of work that went into Mr. Nozh's article.
|
Eniy Oh
Gallente
Wildly Inappropriate
Goonswarm Federation |
Posted - 2009.11.23 09:44:00 - [ 1600]
Edited by: Eniy Oh on 23/11/2009 09:51:14 Originally by: ByFstugan
My vote is to make the MS's into Battle Carriers (new name instead of Super Carriers) and keep the old ones as Logistics Carriers. I strongly also agree to a good buff to the internal rep - even with double or more active rep bonus it wont be much compared to the EHP atm.
This would be a good solution I think. "Normal" carriers are about as "cheap" as faction/t2 battleships and tech 3 ships, which would justify their limited role. If then you need to buy about 4-5 times more to get a carrier that can deal DPS, it'd make perfect sense. Anyone else agreeing? Edit: this would still shed tears come to think of it (mine as well, I fly a carrier also). Regular carriers as they are already provide a decent ammount of DPS (1500dps with 15 fighters) they'd then lose, hmm. |
IronGoldenEagle
The New Era
C0NVICTED |
Posted - 2009.11.23 10:07:00 - [ 1601]
Thx for the outporuing of support all, Ms pilots, titan pilots, Cap ship pilots and many non ones alike.
In just another example of how excited I was for the Abathur changes my friend and I had MSs lined up to be built (did not send in payment b4 the new annoucnments as we were 3rd and 4th in a cue respectivley) We had watched 2 MSs rip apart a sieged Dread with their fighter bombers and we wanted to be dual dropping our MSs into capital fleet fights, be they in system or in the enemies terrirtory. Finally, here was the chance to enjoy these ships that were supposed to be beasts but which we had seen relegated to assinging fighters from POS shields 95% of the time. Instead we are left with the same old thing, I've already dumped my Phoenix in disgust at its continuing ineffectiveness and I'm in the market for a CCP Nozh Capital Target Painter if anyone has one.
The next level of Eve, and really the last ones I ever wanted to achieve have been destroyed for me. My capitals no longer interest me, my alliance can never (huzzah or whoever Im with) take over all of 0 sec like people used to fear/dream of during the Great War, and now the next tiers of ships, MS and Titans, are now completely undesirable rather than just mostly. The lights are going out all over Tranquility, and no one knows when they will be lit again. |
Van Doren |
Posted - 2009.11.23 10:15:00 - [ 1602]
Edited by: Van Doren on 23/11/2009 10:30:258 Days left. Dunno why you all still bother. I guess you can all wish for a miracle but this expansion is no longer about cap ships. At least not about the MS and the Nag anymore. It will probably be considered as a troll but they worked with the community and in the end, they did what they want putting all that work in the trash bin. Next year, we'll probably have Titans with paintballs, motherships with fighters painting POSes and dreads repping each other. At least there is a new browser and mail client. Not a total waste of time. Found this little gem by the way... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O9ULlOE5VUE&feature=channel |
ByFstugan
Big Shadows
Atlas Alliance |
Posted - 2009.11.23 12:59:00 - [ 1603]
Originally by: Eniy Oh
Edited by: Eniy Oh on 23/11/2009 09:51:14
Originally by: ByFstugan
My vote is to make the MS's into Battle Carriers (new name instead of Super Carriers) and keep the old ones as Logistics Carriers. I strongly also agree to a good buff to the internal rep - even with double or more active rep bonus it wont be much compared to the EHP atm.
This would be a good solution I think. "Normal" carriers are about as "cheap" as faction/t2 battleships and tech 3 ships, which would justify their limited role. If then you need to buy about 4-5 times more to get a carrier that can deal DPS, it'd make perfect sense.
Anyone else agreeing?
Edit: this would still shed tears come to think of it (mine as well, I fly a carrier also). Regular carriers as they are already provide a decent ammount of DPS (1500dps with 15 fighters) they'd then lose, hmm.
To be clear. I didn't mean the carrier of present date needed to be either nerfed from fighters or changed - I think they got a good balance as it is and their firepower isn't at all to much for a logistics carrier. What's more important is that the "Battle Carriers" (if that's an acceptable name) is stripped from it's logistics bonuses and their bonuses applied to the new offensive role. Perhaps also some leadership bonuses should be applied? |
EliteSlave
Minmatar
Macabre Votum
Morsus Mihi |
Posted - 2009.11.23 14:25:00 - [ 1604]
Isnt it funny that these changes are brought about when a period of the CSM isnt in session?
onto the topic, these ships need a role fast and need it before dominion, atleast if a role isnt delegated by then atleast give them an HP buff so that they will be semi inline with the supercapital changes, it is highly needed or else it shows that CCP isnt willing to listen to the member base, its funny how these changes are being neglected and ignored. |
Lubomir Penev
Dark Nexxus
S I L E N T. |
Posted - 2009.11.23 14:49:00 - [ 1605]
Originally by: Peryner
DAMN STRAIGHT!
Honestly I don't understand the "I'm a mothership polit and these changes are going to make me quit"
Maybe the fact that motherships as they are now will be two volleyed by titans, meaning that without at least an HP boost, the expensive ship they are stuck in is completely unusable (it will take like 15 seconds to light a cyno, jump in two titans an pop them). Basically in any kind of dangerous situation MS are now confined inside a POS forcefield. IMHO they need at a minimum to boost their HP. |
Zumbala
ICE is Coming to EVE
Not Found. |
Posted - 2009.11.23 15:48:00 - [ 1606]
Edited by: Zumbala on 23/11/2009 16:25:45 Originally by: Tommy Blue
Edited by: Tommy Blue on 22/11/2009 00:20:34
Originally by: Honest Smedley
In the form everyone liked, they were too powerful
Because a ship that has a giant buffer tank, cannot dock, costs 8-10x more and does 2x (or was it 3x) more damage than a dread, and can only hit dreadnoughts is overpowered.
Actually yes. Because then any tackled MS would just had to logoff, since it would have been impossible to kill it within the 10 minute timer, except by hotdropping 150 dreads in the top of it. Risk, reward, etc... Edit: Which mean, btw, that titan have the same issue now. Which mean that the new titan dd is fail, beacause far to overpowered. Which means that supercaps still have no defense against dreads blobs. So basicly, dreads blobs were the issue, at the beginning. So why not giving supercaps some hability ot defend specifically agsint dreads blob, like some sort of ewar that is specifically efficient agsint sieged dreads? And it would give a new role to MS/dreads. If you give from CCP try to solve the problem only by introducing some sort of new supertanking habitilty, or some sort of superdamage weapon, it will just lead into a circle. The first DD was fail, and it tool 2 years to be fixed in some way. What will you do, when some mega coalition just hotdropp 50 titan on the top of another one, and dd it to hell? Finally understand that dps/tanking was finally not the right solution? |
Honest Smedley |
Posted - 2009.11.23 16:06:00 - [ 1607]
Edited by: Honest Smedley on 23/11/2009 16:07:18
Boosting the MS without obsoleting carriers:
1.) Allow carriers to use fighter bombers.
2.) Focus MS development in a different direction. (Logistics)
-> Reduce the number of active drones, fighters and fighter bombers on MSs to match carriers.
-> Move bonuses off DPS where present to remote armor/hull repair or shield/energy transfer.
-> Introduce low-slot MS module equivalents to gang links that boost navigation/shield.
-> Introduce mid-slot MS module equivalents to gang links that boost targeting/armor.
-> Give MSs bonuses to fit up to three MS gang link modules at a time.
-> Give MSs bonuses to MS gang link module bonuses comparable to what Titans have today.
-> Radically increase the hangar size of MSs.
-> Increase the jump range of MSs.
-> Increase the effective hit points of MSs so they can withstand 3-4 titan DDs.
-> Remove their remote ECM burst ability.
3.) Nerf titans further. (Make them only compelling to own when they're on the battlefield)
-> Remove their ability to bridge other ships.
-> Remove their bonuses to gang links.
-> Return their turret bonus to 200%/level.
-> Introduce additional mutually-exclusive super weapons in the future to add value.
-> Add racial remote EW bursts similar to the ECM bursts MSs currently have as 'non-super' weapons.
-> Limit the racial remote EW bursts to 1 per Titan through fitting requirements.
4.) Never introduce another super cap class ship to EvE. |
Myrkala
Minmatar
Rebel Inc
|
Posted - 2009.11.23 16:11:00 - [ 1608]
Posting with my new signature, read it people. |
Zumbala
ICE is Coming to EVE
Not Found. |
Posted - 2009.11.23 16:20:00 - [ 1609]
Originally by: Honest Smedley
3.) Nerf titans further. (Make them only compelling to own when they're on the battlefield)
-> Remove their ability to bridge other ships.
You know that titan bridge is actually the only thing that does not seems overpowered on titan, right? Originally by: Honest Smedley
4.) Never introduce another super cap class ship to EvE.
At least we agree on this one. Titan should never have been introduced into Eve, as a start. |
Dante Edmundo |
Posted - 2009.11.23 16:26:00 - [ 1610]
Edited by: Dante Edmundo on 23/11/2009 16:27:38
Postpone SOV nul-sec changes - release everything else. Nothing has received the amount of negative response than these SOV/CAPITAL SHIP proposed changes. Almost every other new feature in Dominion has been met with positive if not enthusiastic welcome. So why not just release the good - and work on polishing SOV more since many players clearly dislike the proposed changes - whether they actually will work or not really doesn't matter at this point. |
Viggen |
Posted - 2009.11.23 16:30:00 - [ 1611]
Originally by: Lubomir Penev
Originally by: Peryner
DAMN STRAIGHT!
Honestly I don't understand the "I'm a mothership polit and these changes are going to make me quit"
Maybe the fact that motherships as they are now will be two volleyed by titans, meaning that without at least an HP boost, the expensive ship they are stuck in is completely unusable (it will take like 15 seconds to light a cyno, jump in two titans an pop them).
Basically in any kind of dangerous situation MS are now confined inside a POS forcefield.
IMHO they need at a minimum to boost their HP.
Motherships have gone back to there TQ state, but still have there HP buffs:- BASE STATS:- Aeon TQ Hull - 287,500 ... SISI - 575,000 TQ Armour - 275,000 ... SISI - 1,100,000 TQ Shield - 212,500 ... SISI - 490,000 Nyx TQ Hull - 300,000 ... SISI - 600,000 TQ Armour - 262,500 ... SISI - 1,050,000 TQ Shield - 225,000 ... SISI - 540,000 Wyvern TQ Hull - 275,000 ... SISI - 550,000 TQ Armour - 237,500 ... SISI - 590,000 TQ Shield - 250,000 ... SISI - 1,000,000 Hel TQ Hull - 262,500 ... SISI - 525,000 TQ Armour - 250,000 ... SISI - 600,000 TQ Shield - 237,500 ... SISI - 990,000 |
Sertan Deras
Gallente
Merch Industrial
Goonswarm Federation |
Posted - 2009.11.23 16:33:00 - [ 1612]
Edited by: Sertan Deras on 23/11/2009 16:33:06
I see CCP has gone in to full "put fingers in ears and go lalalala" mode.
e: If they don't at least keep the HP buffs (as Sisi seems to indicate they are), CCP truly has lost it's mind. |
Pelleaon |
Posted - 2009.11.23 16:44:00 - [ 1613]
Edited by: Pelleaon on 23/11/2009 16:44:23 Originally by: Dante Edmundo
Edited by: Dante Edmundo on 23/11/2009 16:27:38
Postpone SOV nul-sec changes - release everything else. Nothing has received the amount of negative response than these SOV/CAPITAL SHIP proposed changes. Almost every other new feature in Dominion has been met with positive if not enthusiastic welcome. So why not just release the good - and work on polishing SOV more since many players clearly dislike the proposed changes - whether they actually will work or not really doesn't matter at this point.
I like the new sov-changes. Oh: And **** those guys who go like "We all liked those Supercap-changes" cause i don't like it and i don't want to get mixed up with those bull****ting ppl. |
Lalai Dama |
Posted - 2009.11.23 16:47:00 - [ 1614]
Well one friend was wondering if a mass player exit could cause the end of eve. I visioned myself, a demigod with my hardwires sitting in the rain on a dark day in a once active market place on a planet. Now abandoned. I see me repeating these epic words from Bladerunner end scene and it all made sense: ............................................ I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Perimeter. I watched Cerberus's glitter in the dark near Teonusude Gate. All those moments will be lost in time like tears in the rain. Time die .......................................... ofc it is to mellow, and the end of eve is not near i hope but i felt like sharing  |
Dante Edmundo |
Posted - 2009.11.23 16:54:00 - [ 1615]
Edited by: Dante Edmundo on 23/11/2009 16:57:24 Originally by: Pelleaon
Edited by: Pelleaon on 23/11/2009 16:44:23
I like the new sov-changes.
Oh: And **** those guys who go like "We
all liked those Supercap-changes" cause
i don't like it and i don't want to get mixed
up with those bull****ting ppl.
So I see. Since you yourself like it the changes should go through? Never mind the large number of players (at least speaking on these forums) who are unhappy with the new changes - as long as you like it then it's OK. Who cares about the people you play with right? I guess that's the attitude CCP is taking now too. They like what they're doing, so why pay attention to their player base? Who cares about the players who play their game? |
Honest Smedley |
Posted - 2009.11.23 17:03:00 - [ 1616]
Originally by: Zumbala
Originally by: Honest Smedley
3.) Nerf titans further. (Make them only compelling to own when they're on the battlefield)
-> Remove their ability to bridge other ships.
You know that titan bridge is actually the only thing that does not seems overpowered on titan, right?
I personally don't care for the effect titan bridges have on the game, so it is less of an issue of overpowered or not and more of a 'bad game design' issue from my perspective. The root problem CCP has with Titans, however, is that they have enough logistical utility off the field to justify building them and not enough utility on the field to justify using them in a manner that puts them at risk. Remove jump bridging and any gang or warfare link related bonuses from them and titans sitting at POSes are worthless. To keep them worth owning, CCP would then have to increase the battlefield utility to compensate. Increasing damage on the guns and adding remote racial EW bursts is one step, but the promise of future mutually exclusive super weapons is clearly where the payoff would be. The root problem CCP has with MSs is that they're currently big carriers with a logistics role and disproportionate penalties (cost and inability to dock). With Titans turned into battlefield terrors, MSs can take on a much more logistic-heavy role that solves most of the balancing issues CCP has. They would be significant logistical upgrades over a carrier to justify the added penalties, but no better (and perhaps even slightly worse) with respect to DPS. |
Aequitas Veritas
NibbleTek
Pandemic Legion |
Posted - 2009.11.23 17:20:00 - [ 1617]
Moving JPG to motherships is a very very bad move, ud then have fleets bridgeing all over the place. This would result in blobbing and less pvp since whenever you see 4 ships, u can be sure that there are another 10 sitting at a mom somewhere ready to jump in. The expense of the Titan prevents that somewhat.
With regards to Titans, do they still have the entirely useless 100% damage / level still? Cus the only thing we'll see is the continuing of driveby dd's if thats their only on field ability... |
Hrodgar Ortal
Minmatar
Ma'adim Logistics |
Posted - 2009.11.23 17:21:00 - [ 1618]
If you can't balance a dual bonused naglfar can't you remove one of the types of weapons on it so we don't have to have 30% more training time? Will be even more obvious with the added citadel cruises I suspect. 30 days or so more to train. |
Honest Smedley |
Posted - 2009.11.23 17:34:00 - [ 1619]
Originally by: Aequitas Veritas
Moving JPG to motherships is a very very bad move, ud then have fleets bridgeing all over the place. This would result in blobbing and less pvp since whenever you see 4 ships, u can be sure that there are another 10 sitting at a mom somewhere ready to jump in. The expense of the Titan prevents that somewhat.
With regards to Titans, do they still have the entirely useless 100% damage / level still? Cus the only thing we'll see is the continuing of driveby dd's if thats their only on field ability...
I'm not suggesting moving JBs over to MSs. I'm suggesting getting rid of them entirely, or moving them to a POS-only thing. JBs are a bad mechanic on Titans. They would be a bad mechanic on MSs as well. Do away with them. |
Aequitas Veritas
NibbleTek
Pandemic Legion |
Posted - 2009.11.23 17:44:00 - [ 1620]
I guess its CCPs way of doing it since the Titan can't bring ppl with it when itself jumps. That would be much better, but i suppose its hard to code :( |
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