Originally by: CCP Chronotis

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Originally by: Salsbury

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Y'know, I have to admit that watching all this smack-talk about CCP from the people who don't like the changes is pretty funny. Epic pwnage by CCP!

It seems to me that the whole intent of CCP was to stir things up, reduce unused system sprawl, and make alliances really consider whether a system will be profitable to keep around. In this regard, I think they've already succeeded admirably.

In the 100+ posts I've read on this thread, one striking deficiency that I've noticed is the lack of almost any mention of cooperation, banding together, and INCREASING alliance inter-operation. This is, in fact, core to the design of what CCP is trying to accomplish. Getting more people out to 0.0, building new relationships between corps, encouraging renting out of sub-systems in alliance space, etc.

I've seen lots of people saying "small alliances won't be able to survive!" Well, start banding together with other smaller alliances, and become larger.

I've seen LOTS AND LOTS of funny PvP'ers whining that they simply won't be able to shoot enough stuff to pay the bills, while at the same time saying "mining is a **** profession" and the like. Well, it's time for you to learn how to cooperate with other players. You need to start getting some mining & industry going in your systems, to leverage those belts, rather than simply ignoring them, or ratting, then flying away. (You might even want to train some new skills, so you can produce some wealth in ways other than simply shooting stuff. You might be surprised.)

If it helps you to reframe the idea of cooperation, think of it as different strategic wings of a fleet. You've got some who are doing PvE ratting, protecting those who are helping to harvest those rocks and provide you with resources to build with/sell. You need to balance your skills & strengths to achieve the larger objective. One person can't do it all. That's the whole point of having fleets, corps, and alliances.

Think bigger than what you can do alone. Think about what you can accomplish together.

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excellent clarity of vision I must say!

It is true and something we said from outset that unbalanced alliances who are 95% PvP/Fleet and 5% industry will be most affected by this as we are reducing their dependency on passive point sources and introducing greater active resource density to allow for passive income to take over.

The alliances who will benefit most are those who have or aim to have balanced compositions of people with different playstyles or even act as enforcers or protectors of the space with multiple rental agreements if they wish and we will add tools as we call the treaty system to help facilitate that.

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Originally by: Inferno Styx

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Ok I thought I would try and make some changes that imo actually are worth the ISK to get them. Most of them are derived from other posts in this thread and I thought they would be easier to argue if combined together.

Pirate Magnet

When installed automatic 50% reduction in spawn time and bounties are increased 15%. Each level gives an additional 3% bounty increase.

Ore Processing Array

1 Hidden belt per level instant respawn when mined out. Belts are on the same level as an Average W-space deposit. Belts will also spawn rats and receive benefits of Pirate magnet.

Entrapment

10% increased chance of DED Complex per level. Installing upgrade limits complexes to >8/10. Complexes Respawn instantly.

Survey Network

Scan strength increase of 5% per level for all probes in system. This upgrade allows advanced scanning techiques that allow Cloaks to be scanned through, Sig of .05 per level for all ships with cloak active.

Quantum Flux Generator

5% Increase in chances of Wormhole leading to W-Space spawning in system. Also gives all Wormholes a 2.5% increase to Mass limits and Life Cycle per level.

These are off the top of my head if you don't like them flame away just trying to give some help.

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Originally by: Vivian Azure

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Originally by: Zahorite

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So what do you plan to do about this horrible problem. Surely you must have a solution to bring back the eye gouging and biting that used to exist at those expensive tables?

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Originally by: Vivian Azure

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Originally by: Sidus Sarmiang

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Edited by: Sidus Sarmiang on 08/11/2009 02:05:54

Originally by: Vivian Azure

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Instanced... lol... go play WoW!

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Or do missions in highsec.

I'm not saying make them unprobeable, but there's no other way to support more than 20 people doing encounters in a system at the same time.

PS you're still an unwashed manbaby that wants a second job, not a game.

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Originally by: Peryner

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Originally by: Zahorite

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Originally by: Elisean

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Edited by: Elisean on 08/11/2009 01:30:53

Originally by: Marlona Sky

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So if the proposed numbers on paying for 'xyz' upgrade or whatever are too high, what would be more on par??

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The problem isn't the costs so much as the rewards.

In fact maybe they should double the upgrade and upkeep costs. Then double the rewards.

That would be amuch better situation. As then players would say, THAT"S TOO MUCH! and then think, what does all that give me? and then say "oh wow, that's a lot of isk! maybe we should pay it so we can move towards that future goal.



also why isn't ccp using the wardec model here? where the more systems you own the more it costs to own them?

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Yes, brilliant. Let's pay a 1 billion starting fee and 2 billion a month for 20 anomalies instead of a 500m startup cost and 1 billion for 10 anomalies. That will fix everything.

That's like saying that 20 cotton balls is better than 10 cotton balls when you need to a kleenex to blow your nose.

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not my nose, 20 players noses.
I need 10 more cotton balls so that 10 more people can blow thier noses.
this is a muliplayer game, not solo.

also my point was that those 20 cotton balls would also all be twice as big.

you should think of it as steak instead. right now I've got 10 1lb steaks. Now I don't need 20 2 lb steaks just to feed myself, but it would help to feed 20 people. and we'll all be more full.

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Quote:

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Instanced... lol... go play WoW!

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Originally by: Korodan

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Originally by: Destrim

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I believe it would be nice if the return on refine amount increased beyond 100%. In other words, you start getting something like 110% return, etc.

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This would be a very bad thing - make 100 guns, then reprocess them and make 110 guns, then reprocess those - you get the idea.

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• Increase refine return past 100%, to a maximum of 150% @ sov level 5 (Clarification note: this ONLY applies to ore! The REFINE rate, not the REPROCESS rate!)


• Increase the mining amount/speed by x% per sov level


• Decrease build costs by x% per sov level


• Decrease build and research times by x% per sov level


• Insert other clever "by x% per sov level" thingy here

• Increase shield HP by x% per sov level


• Increase armor HP by x% per sov level (Can only be one or the other: cannot have BOTH armor AND shield upgrades!)


• Decrease capacitor cost for local/remote repair by x% per sov level


• Insert other clever "by x% per sov level" thingy here

Originally by: Prognosys

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Originally by: Masempa

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Originally by: Jethro Hawkins

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YES OR NO: Due to the increased risk and logistics effort required, 0.0 should be more - not as - profitable (in raw isk/h) than highsec L4 mission running.

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