Posted - 2009.10.26 19:18:00 - [31]

 

Alright, so since everyone seems to prefer 800s/4 Gyro/TE I'll post up a comparison of various Mach fits, and then we can choose "the best".

-Liang

Posted - 2009.10.26 21:38:00 - [33]

 

Originally by: Norwegian Wood

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Is there a reason you use EMP instead of Barrage?

Isn't barrage better past ~25 km.

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I used EMP because all the ships could use the same ammo, and would all be affected in the same ways. The graphs will be shaped differently, but the critical points will remain roughly the same.

-Liang

Posted - 2009.10.26 22:38:00 - [35]

 

Edited by: Spaztick on 26/10/2009 22:40:22
If I were to fit out the Mach, I would do a comparison with a T2 ambit and 2 T1 rigs with 4 gyros and 2 TEs (maybe 3 TEs if you want to skip out on the damage control).

DPS wise I get similar damage as a Mach, but I expect the effective damage to be more due to increased falloff; tracking might be an issue but if NPCs are on approach 90% of the time it wouldn't make that big a difference, and the Machariel would outdamage the Vargur slightly, putting it on par with the Golem/CNR matchup where the Golem is the more efficient ISK generator and mission runner but the CNR does more raw damage.

Posted - 2009.10.27 05:55:00 - [37]

 

Originally by: Spaztick

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If I were to fit out the Mach, I would do a comparison with a T2 ambit and 2 T1 rigs with 4 gyros and 2 TEs (maybe 3 TEs if you want to skip out on the damage control).

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I'm reaaaallllyyyyy curious about what tank you're thinking of. I'm seeing an AB, cap injector, 2 hardeners, and some what the **** expensive shield booster? Maybe hoping to buffer tank through your missions or something? That tank is too thin even by my standards.

At any rate, the fit I've chosen has 2 Ambit Is, an Ambit II, 3 TCs, and 2-3 damage mods. I'm kinda hesitant to go into a mission with a tank as thin as this one... the two damage mod definitely will, and will probably end up being the most common fit.

The Comparison Assumptions:
- All damage/tracking mods are domination/Shadow Serpentis
- Ammo is EMP L
- All Vargurs have 2 Ambit IIs
- All Machs have Ambit II, 2x Ambit I
- Transversal is maxumum (a fairly reasonable "worst case scenario"), and at a fifth (more realistic, given that Angels are "on approach" 90% of the time)

The Targets:
Frig Target: Angel Gistii Nomad (550 transversal / 35 sig)
Cruiser target: Gistum Centurion (400 transversal / 150 sig)
BS Target: Gist War General (350 transversal / 320 sig)


The Fits:
Vargur, 800s, 4 Gyro, TE: 972 EFT DPS, 3450 Optimal, 49680 Falloff, 0.08658 Tracking
Mach, 4 Gyro, 3 TE: 1061 EFT DPS, 4233 Optimal, 72409 Falloff, 0.07234 Tracking
Mach, 3 Gyro, 3 TC: 992 EFT DPS, 4325 Optimal, 74314 Falloff, 0.054 Tracking
Mach, 2 Gyro, 3 TC: 878 EFT DPS, 4325 Optimal, 74314 Falloff, 0.054 Tracking

Frigate (Full Transversal)
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Frigate (Fifth Transversal)
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Cruiser (Full Transversal)
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Cruiser (Fifth Transversal)
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BS (Full Transversal)
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BS (Fifth Transversal)
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-Liang

Posted - 2009.10.27 09:12:00 - [39]

 

I dont like the mach im a vargur man, heres my setup lads it is perfect for fighting angels, for anything else i use a diff optimal ship.

Highs 4x 800mm tech 2 autocannons 2 tractors 1 salvager 2

meds 1 cn invul 1 gist x type explosive hardener 1x gist x type kin hardener, 1x tech 2 boost amp 1x faction tracking comp with the 2 scripts, 1 pithum a type medbooster (permaruns with crystal set boost around 670 shields)

lows 4x rep fleet gyros 1x domination tracking enhancer

rigs are 2 x tech 2 falloff rigs so i can hit out to 65km with barrage and 40km with republic fleet fusion

Posted - 2009.10.27 15:17:00 - [41]

 

So what speaks for the Mach is higher damage and longer range, as expected. Guess I'm gonna buy it anyway because I dont want to train AWU V yet. It should also be taken into account that there are quite some people who train their racial BS to V (they have to anyway if they want to train marauders), but I doubt many skill their Marauder to V, except people who only run missions. So the Vargur often doesnt have such a good tank and tracking as shown in EFT. Maybe also one point that speaks for Mach.

So from my point of view, the Varg is better if you have Marauder V and want to salvage in one go/ wreckballing, and the Mach is better for raw firepower and mission completing time.

Posted - 2009.10.27 17:16:00 - [43]

 

Edited by: McRoll on 27/10/2009 17:24:47
I guess you can only really compare them if you flown both for some time. Vargur can salvage in one go, Mach does more damage and flies faster, which adds when you have to travel a long way to gates. You close distance to far flying enemies faster and apply more damage. Take into account that you usually dont fly only against Angels. (at least I dont)so it also comes down to missions. Ill just start with the Mach and get the Vargur when i can convince myself to train that AWU V and the other stuff needed.

After all, no one has flown the new Mach yet,except for testing on Sisi. Ill just wait^^

Posted - 2009.10.27 17:27:00 - [45]

 

Originally by: Liang Nuren

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The Mach has:
- Higher base damage
- A bigger drone bay (4 heavies + 5 lights)

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and Speed!
let's not forget Mach is getting 25% mass reduction, should hit 1km/s with gist x-type ab & snakes post dominion

Posted - 2009.10.30 05:55:00 - [47]

 

k - so where are the new ones? Chop! Chop!

Posted - 2009.11.10 12:42:00 - [49]

 

Any update maybe ?

Posted - 2009.11.11 03:18:00 - [51]

 

Shhhhhhh! I've been trying not to mention the Vargur with these changes too much or Nozh might nerf it!